₦airaland Forum

jason12345:
GBAM!!!!!! FOREVER!!!

dapobear, i like the way you think!!! if in anycase nigeria splits into 3 regions we must not go without the whole of kwara and parts of kogi!
secondly, i would go home and develop our new found republic. i think the first thing we need to do is electricity.

Exactly. Electricity has to be the first priority, as far as economy goes. If you do that, the rest will follow. It means you can then actually take advantage of the lower cost of labor in Africa. This is why I have so much hope for an Odua Republic,

i know the igbos to would advance because it would be viewed as a healthy competition.

Indeed. This is the way I feel about Igbo people. You need people to keep you on your toes. And by and large, I view their competition as nothing but good for our people, iron sharpens iron, as they say.

EzeUche0:
I grew up in Port Harcourt. Igbo is the most widely spoken language in that city. Plus Port Harcourt's original name was Igwe Ocha. Frankly, the entire East speaks Igbo. Ijaw communities converse in Igbo, Ibibio and also other groups.

I see. I don't speak Igbo, but really like listening to Igbo songs and thought I had an ear for the language, maybe I was wrong.

As much as we claim these Northerners are illiterate dogs, they are the ones running the show, not us. They own the army, the police, etc. So if they are illiterate dogs, what are we?

So let us never underestimate them. Underestimating your enemy is a recipe for disaster,

chyz:
Yes they are, most of them see themselves as igbo.They are very clannish though.There is nothing that will stop them from going with other Igbos. They make up Ohanaeze as well and and Ikwere son is Vice President of Ohanaeze. You should read about who the who Ikwerre thing came about. They were force forced by the nigerian government(although many of them didnt abide) to drop their "Igbo" ethnic title and stick to their "Ikwerre"clan title and also make that their new ethnic title. Nigerian government told them if they refused that they will not accept them into the federal side and instead regard them as Biafrans and not give them any types of regards and also they would killed them and give the rest of their land to the Ijaws.

Heh, I see. Hrm, I was in PH for one month visiting some family, is that city Igbo? The language they spoke sounded different to me.

EzeUche0:
If we go by that thinking, than Igboland is much larger than the map I uploaded portrays!  

Now let me give you a what-if scenario. If Lagos becomes 80% Igbo, would that make it Igboland. By that line of thinking of yours, that would mean it is part of Alaigbo.  

So in theory, it might. But you can only claim what you can hold, by force if necessary. And given that Lagos is surrounded by Yoruba states, it seems fairly unlikely it can be held by non-Yoruba, even if the demographics changed in that way. Who knows though, if the population of the state were 80% Igbo, and the United Nations ballpark estimate of 15-20 mil were accurate, then perhaps you'd be able to hold it. That would be easily north of 10 million Igbo in a very small region. The language of the state would change from Yoruba to Igbo, the political officers would become Igbo, etc.

So yeah, I think if you could get to 80%, it could in theory become Igboland.

alj harem:
what kwara
what kogi

hmmmm so yoruba and igbos want to take kwara and kogi which are northern states

lets see u try it

Kwara is unfinished business. It might be 50 years from now when we regain it, it might be 5000 years. But so long as the Yoruba live, we will never forget the loss of that region. And Western Kogi has always been Yoruba.

EzeUche0:
Now you are understanding the Igbo point of view. Don't you want to unite all Yoruba-speaking people? We Igbos have that same view.

We wish to unite with our brethren in Benue State, Delta State, Kogi State, Cross River State and Rivers State.

I have never hid my desire for a united Igboland. Igboland doesn't stop at the River Niger.

I would, yes. But the thing is, the people you want to unite with also have a say. For example, our homies in the Benin Republic and Togo probably don't want to enter political union. And Kwara might decide for whatever reason to join the north (though I would be VERY suspicious of the results of any such poll unless it were supervised by some trusted international body).

I'm content with rolling with the states we currently have, if necessary.

EzeUche0:
Remember Lagos is not Yorubaland. It was founded by the people of the former Benin Empire. lol

That is the lovely thing about demographics, though. North America was not founded by the white man, but is part of his territory now. If you have enough people move en masse to a region, you can make it your own. Lagos is ours now, regardless of whether it was so in the past.

Well, I don't think anyone really fears the Igbo in this country except for maybe some Delta minorities who don't like them moving en masse down there. But I don't think we Yoruba fear them, for example. A healthy (or unhealthy, depending on the perspective) rivalry with another group isn't fear.

chyz:
Im still trying to understand what that has to do with you. the 5 "core"Igbo state, im not sure what you mean by "Core"Igbo, anyways is different that what Ndigbo want. Imo, Anambra,Ebonyi, Enugwu, and Abia is not "Ndigbo" they are states. Ndigbo is a people. So im still not understanding your argument are you saying "grab" as in yorubas trying to "grab" kwara and "grab" kogi into Oduduwa republic? come on make some sense to me im not getting you reasoning.

Fair point. "Grab" I guess is controversial language. It is no secret that ideally I'd want Kwara and Western Kogi state in Yorubaland. Neither of these two regions are considered currently part of the Southwest.

Hrm, perhaps it is bias against the Igbo that causes your own aspiration to incorporate your kin in other regions into Igboland? I don't know. Though you must admit that if we Yoruba constantly talked about incorporating Warri somehow because of the Itsekiri, it would seem like a "landgrab." Are the Iwerri likely to join you guys, if they were given the option?

EzeUche0:
Interesting that you compared him to Michael Steele. I actually met Michael Steele. He is a nice Catholic man. Just because he is a Republican, Black Americans see him as a "Uncle Tom," which is foolish. But that is for another debate.

And now many Yorubas are complaining about Nigeria. Banjo tried to free you all, but was treated as an outsider. I am pretty sure Banjo is smiling now in death, knowing that he has been redeemed. I don't want to sound tribalistic by this post, but I do not want to hear any Yoruba complaining about Nigeria. You all had your chance, but you chose to stay. That is way I feel about it.

Banjo is, was and always will be a collaborationist dog. He is the type of demon Yorubaland has been plagued with throughout our history, a man who would sell out his people to our rivals or enemies. Afonja, Banjo, what difference is there between the two?

I don't know why we always do this, it really pisses me off. Some of these guys don't think through their actions thoroughly enough, I guess.

EzeUche0:
Biafra's only problem was some Ijaw and the Annang. That is it. Ogoni were stalwarts of Biafra, Ibibios/Efik fought on behalf of Biafra.

Biafra would not just include the 5 core Igbo states. It would include parts of Delta State, most of Rivers State, Akwa Ibom and Cross River State. And some parts of Kogi and Benu state where native Igbo populations reside.

I always wondered about the Idoma, but that is for another thread. Many Idoma bear Igbo names and vice versa. And southern Idoma language is very similar to Northern Igbo dialects.

Honestly, whoever you can convince to join Biafra in a fair poll supervised by some suitable external organization (e.g., the United Nations), find by me.

I'm not trying to restrict your shine, if you can convince the entire South-South to join you, more power to you.

Just don't try to do it by force, or through warfare. And of course, don't go trying to claim Lagos, or any part of Yorubaland. If you don't do those things, then we don't have any beef.

Wait, Awolowo committed suicide? That is unfortunate, if true.

seanet02:
we thank god for providing us with people like awo

Pretty much. If there had been no Awo, would my father have gone to college? If he hadn't, then he wouldn't have met my mother. I wouldn't even exist if it were not for Awo.

If he had chosen differently during the Civil War, maybe Yorubaland would be under Igbo domination now. Or destroyed by the Nigerian (i.e., Hausa) army in a failed bid to support Biafra.

God bless Awolowo.

chyz:
What is meant by the bolded?

Chyz, let's be realistic. If you Igbo want to secede, and you only take your 5 core Igbo states with you, you'll have created a state doomed to fail (well, let me not say doomed, but with a much smaller probability of succeeding.) Landlocked from the sea, not much economic activity within its borders. So your primary hope is to grab a significant portions of Delta and Rivers.

At least, if I were a Biafran, this is what I'd be trying to do.

So do you see the issue here? Biafra cannot come to be without taking parts of the country that are not considered core Igbo. Personally though, if you can convince Rivers to follow you, I have no problem, no skin off my back. I just don't think the Ikwerre Igbos are very likely to want to roll with you. Why share their money with you, basically? What incentive do they have?

If you can take Rivers though, I think Biafra could be a strong country.

EzeUche0:
Lets be honest with ourself. Banjo was ahead of his time as well. He saw Northern domination as a wrong, and he tried to free his people. We Igbos supported him in his dream of freeing Yorubaland from Northern domination. This same domination that continues to this day.

This man should be treated like a hero.

The Igbos would have understood what the Yoruba were doing, if this was the other way around. Since many of our people were killed in the pogroms up North. We would have celebrated you all as liberators and joined you all in your struggle against the North.

Do you know who or what Banjo is? Banjo is the equivalent of Michael Steele, or any of these black Republicans. Guys like him are political tools, and are never supported by their own people.

Heck, if a white man wanted to start a "Enslave Yorubaland" party, he could very likely find a foolish Yoruba and pay him lots of money to be its figurehead.

Don't bring up Banjo and use him to justify invading West, unless you can also prove that he had the support of the Yoruba consensus. By and large, I've very rarely seen the Yoruba consensus get something wrong. If they say something is wrong, they are usually correct.

EzeUche0:
Awolowo is to Igbos, is like Hitler to the Jews. We will forever rain curses on this man.

In this day and age, there is a type of etiquette that should govern the laws of war. You do not target civilian populations. These defenseless populations are not like soldiers. What justification do you have to despoil a young lady, killed children and elderly. Only a DEMON would support such actions. I would not even wish that on my own enemy's people. If I have a beef with you, I will target you, not your family.

I do not want to get into a Nigerian Civil War debate, but needless to say, the dream of Biafra is still on the mind of many Easterners. Biafra was not perfect, but it was far better than Nigeria. If only it had succeeded.

It is what it is. Awolowo believed in the concept of total war (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Total_war). General Sherman used the same tactics in the American Civil War against the South. It was used in WW1 and WW2 as well. This is something that has been done repeatedly throughout history, as a tool of war.

In general, this is the story in Africa. If you want to start a war, it isn't going to be some fairy tale, King Arthur-esque chivalrous duel. It will be bloody, there will be rape, plunder, and very likely genocide.

Look, this is EXACTLY why Awolowo did not want armies in his lands! He is not some sort of romantic fool who has read to many King Arthur stories. He knew that war in Yorubaland would DEVASTATE our people.

That you compare him to Hitler makes me love the man more. He has sacrificed his honor and reputation (at least, among non-Yoruba) to save his own people from a terrible fate. I only hope that one day I can be as wise and courageous as he was.

EzeUche0:
I am just saying that there were Yorubas who supported Biafra. Wole Soyinka was thrown in prison for his support of Biafra. We cannot forget Yoruba activist like this.

Let us be honest with ourselves. And we should never forget about Biafra.

Long live Biafra. And may Biafra rise again. But hopefully you will not attempt to send armies of conquest westwards towards Yorubaland. If you can come up with a way to realize your dream that doesn't involve invading our lands, then it is much likelier to succeed. After all, I'm not really sure anyone in this day and age (certainly not the Yoruba) is really that opposed to Igboland seceding. Just don't try to landgrab the Delta (and the Ikwere by and large seem to be trying to disassociate themselves from the larger Igbo polity, so this probably wouldn't be very successful anyway) , choice parts of the Southwest, and very likely Biafra can come to pass.

Basseti:
Its either u have your history twisted all up in knots or maybe u are just being disingenuous.

What?

[quote="Wikipedia"]The Nigerian government launched a "police action" to retake the secessionist territory. The war began on 6 July 1967 when Nigerian Federal troops advanced in two columns into Biafra. The Nigerian army offensive was through the north of Biafra led by Colonel Shuwa and the local military units were formed as the 1st Infantry Division. The division was led mostly by northern officers. After facing unexpectedly fierce resistance and high casualties, the right-hand Nigerian column advanced on the town of Nsukka which fell on 14 July, while the left-hand column made for Garkem, which was captured on 12 July. At this stage of the war, the other regions of Nigeria (the West and Mid-West) still considered the war as a confrontation between the north (mainly Hausas) against the east (mainly Igbos)[citation needed]. But the Biafrans responded with an offensive of their own when, on 9 August, the Biafran forces moved west into the Mid-Western Nigerian region across the Niger river, passing through Benin City, until they were stopped at Ore (in present day Ondo State) just over the state boundary on 21 August, just 130 miles east of the Nigerian capital of Lagos. The Biafran attack was led by Lt. Col. Banjo, a Yoruba, with the Biafran rank of brigadier. The attack met little resistance and the Mid-West was easily taken over. This was due to the pre-secession arrangement that all soldiers should return to their regions to stop the spate of killings, in which Igbo soldiers had been major victims[7][10].The Nigerian soldiers that were supposed to defend the Mid-West state were mostly Mid-West Igbo and while some were in touch with their eastern counterparts, others resisted. General Gowon responded by asking Colonel Murtala Mohammed (who later became head of state in 1975) to form another division (the 2nd Infantry Division) to expel the Biafrans from the Mid-West, as well as defend the West side and attack Biafra from the West as well. As Nigerian forces retook the Mid-West, the Biafran military administrator declared the Republic of Benin on 19 September.[/quote]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biafran_War#Breakaway

Is my understanding of events wrong? Please correct it if so. If my understanding is fine, then the Igbo send an army led by Banjo all the way up to Ondo State. You guys captured Benin, as well.

Dede1:
I guess when you and your forbearers were bending backward to make Gowon and northern Nigeria soldiers comfortable by supplying porters and women from your stock while they sat in Lagos sending vandals to attack eastern Nigeria, offensive strategy of any sort is best defense.

I'm not sure what choice we had. We Yoruba didn't have an army then. Hell, we still don't have one now. Until we have an army of some sort, we are somewhat constrained in what actions we can take. BTW, don't get me wrong, I don't like any of these armies (British, "Nigerian" (i.e., Hausa), or Igbo) armies who have tried to invade my lands. Even the loss of Ilorin, an event that happened 100s of years ago, still pains me.

The more I think about it, the more I'm beginning to think that change will not come until we somehow DO obtain an army.

EzeUche0:
There is a lot of wisdom in your words. My father has actually moved on from those terrible times. Growing up, I did not hear much about the Yoruba or encountered them much. The few things I would hear is that Awolowo was an evil man, and that the Yoruba elite betrayed the Ndi Igbo. On the other hand, Fela was widely praised and when I got older, Wole Soyinka was discussed as well.

See, think about how foolish this sounds, on the face of it. The Yoruba elite are responsible for the Yoruba, not the Igbo. It is like complaining that your uncle is looking after the interests of his kids before he looks after you! Why is it your uncle's responsibility to pay for your college education before that of his own kids? Makes absolutely no sense; when did the Yoruba elite become the daddy of the Igbo?

Regarding Awo, yes, from the perspective of the Igbo and the suffering they endured, he certainly can be viewed as an evil man. War is a nasty, ugly thing. And in Africa, it is no holds barred, genocide, starvation, rape, etc are all valid weapons in such wars here. But just because Awo had no qualms in using those weapons doesn't make him an evil man. If you and I get into a fight, and it is a fight to the death, I'll use ANY weapon at my disposal to win. I will gouge out your eyes if necessary, I will break a bottle and use that as a weapon. You don't get style points in life-or-death struggles, the only thing that matters is who wins.

I'd rather have a leader like Awolowo who will do ANYTHING to win rather than some pompous jackass who abides by some foolish, medieval code of chivalry that increases the chances of defeat. War simply is brutal and should be avoided if possible. But if you start a war, then you should do anything you can to win it, especially as the consequences for losing wars in Africa are so brutal.

So supporting Biafra is well and fine. But what happens when Biafra sends an army westward, promising to supposedly "liberate" your region from the rest of Nigeria?

This ultimately is something I can never support. If you want to secede, secede, by all means. But secede, and landgrab from me? Hell to the naw. Awolowo may be painted now as a ruthless demon, but he did what he had to do. And if certain people want to paint Yoruba as ruthless backstabbing demons, then so be it, it is a legacy I'll happily take. Just let it be known that if you try to send an army anywhere near our lands, we will do everything in our power to have it destroyed.

Forget about Abiola temporarily. Even if that had not happened, why would anyone with sense in their heads vote for another former military dictator? In this day and age, when it is nearly 2011? What will a military despot have to offer anyone in this age of democracy? Voting for any Babangidas or Buharis, are they TRULY the best and brightest options Nigeria has? People tainted by tyranny?

They are just names from an era that is hopefully dead and gone.

Obiagu1:
@ DapoBear

There’s nothing like Nigeria and there’s nothing like Southern Nigeria. Igbos won’t join anything resembling Southern Nigeria if Nigeria fails except we have no other options to leave. We need no more parasites around us and we don’t dream of a “large” economy like the USA or China. A country like Israel or Switzerland that is working, progressive, happy, and thriving is all we seek for.

No More Parasites (NMP)!

Fine by me, works well either way.