₦airaland Forum

What a terribly misleading title. This Sunday Okobi guy needs to step his game up, he is right now an example of how NOT to practice journalism.

In any case, the South West will back IBB, on the 15th of No Never.

slap1:
I disagree with Mr. Ishiekwene where he appeared to imply that leadership may not really be our problem. No matter how vast Nigeria is, good leadership can nip our developmental problems in the bud. For instance, it will take a good leader to create regional central banks and EFCC, state policing and power generation. Talking about division, it still takes a leader with balls to take such step. It will be difficult, nay impossible to divide Nigeria because we are dependent on oil as our source of revenue. How do we expect the people that will find themselves without oil to survive? Who will have the oil? Niger-Deltans alone? No sir! It is OUR oil! Until we bring back the era of the groundnut pyramids, tomatoes and onions of the North, the cocoa, latex and rubber of the West, the oil palm, yam, garri and rice of the East -- until we encourage productivity in general and give every region (or unit) a reason not to always think, eat, dream and speak oil -- we still have to be "one Nigeria", grudginly or not.

Says who? If God wanted the Hausa to have oil, he would have put oil into their lands. Instead he put large amounts of it in the Delta region, and of course off the coast of my beloved Yorubaland.

These people love reaping where they did not sow, love stealing what God did not give to them!

Aigbofa:
I know. Reminds me of one Col. Odemegwu Emeka Ojukwu.

As they say on Nairaland, GBAM

A bit off-topic, but what is the situation in Kwara? How do they view themselves? I've not met too many people from Kwara before. The general sense I get is that there, religion is a bit more important than ethnicity. Is this true/false?

Any insight would be much appreciated,

^-- Nah, he raises a good point. It isn't as if ethnicity changes dramatically across the border, just north of the border in Niger Republic they are also Hausa, Fulani, etc. So it would be fairly hard to tell them apart definitively, I think (especially with the lack of paperwork/identification in Nigeria.)

excanny:
I'm not fan of this supposedly 'southern unity' against the North. This is a false and non-existent concept. Let's stop pretending we are one.

No one should drag Ndigbo into this falsehood. The fact remains that Igbos don't give a rat's a.rse who rules Nigeria as long as he has the best programmes for us as a people. If the North floors Jonathan, fine. If Jonathan can pull it through, that will be equally great. We just dont care.

We will form alliances only with those who have dealt with us in honesty in the past and will not allow ourselves to be put into a fight that is none of our business.

I think you've misread things a bit and assumed too much. None of us are proposing some sort of bosom friendship or whatever, it is more mutually coinciding interest. If your interest is in fact in seeing Nigeria continue, and you feel this is beneficial to your people, by no means is anyone including you. For example, if I were Hausa or Fulani or any of these far North groups, I'd be pro-Nigeria. Pretty much everyone else should be against Nigeria (at least, to my way of thinking.) But if you've determined for yourself that you like the status quo, so be it.

Beaf:
Your reasoning is totally flawed, shortsighted and painful. Every part of Nigeria can become economically vibrant without reliance on any of the present parts. No region needs any other for trade or development, aren't there other countries to trade with? It is such shortsightedness that is making Nigeria the directionless backwater it currently is, shackeled minds shackle development.

What Nigeria lacks is organisation and developmental institutions.

I'm not sure your point of cities is convincing. Basically, I'd much rather that Yorubaland have open access to markets in the East and North. The analogy is NAFTA, basically. Strongly federal, but with free trade. Free trade is good for the Yoruba, since we have by far the most infrastructure in our lands. And I want talented Igbo/Edo/etc people to keep moving West. It is basically the American/Canadian model, encourage the best people from overseas to move to your country.

Don't get me wrong btw, it isn't as if I'm saying look ONLY within for trading opportunities. I'd like for to increase trade within West Africa and internationally, as well.

alj harem:

What are you frowning for? I cannot speak on the behalf of the rest of the south, but we do not need foreign beggars in my part of Nigeria. Let them stay in their own lands to beg. Or if the North is willing to let them beg there, then they can do that. In general, I do not want lots of people entering Yorubaland who will make it weak. If you are a wealthy and prosperous businessman, you are welcome. A poor beggar? Go back to where you came from.

Beaf:
Edo, Delta minorities will roll with true federalism. I am 100% certain the Igbo's will too (same goes for Middle Belt); the thing we all hate is this unitary system foisted on us by military regimes (a system which benefits the core North only and drags the of us rest back).

I think if you are Delta, the naive solution would be try to secede and setup your own oil state. But true federalism in which you have full control over the oil drilled from your land is a superior option, in my opinion that the naive solution (I can go into further details why, if you like.)

For the Igbo, financially you definitely want a federal state, it would suck for them moneywise to leave, since they'd then be closed out of a lot of markets. And if they are boxed out of the south-west and boxed out of the south-south, it would be really hard to earn money.

For my people, the Yoruba, I want federalism because it encourages the best people from the elsewhere in Nigeria to move to Lagos. And in general, if you can convince the best and brightest people to move to your country, learn your language, join your culture, I think it is very powerful. But of course, I want nothing to do with the Almajiri Republic because they are against federalism. All they want to do is steal money that doesn't come from their lands.

The Almajiri boys are like going out to dinner at a nice restaurant with a large group of friends. But one of your friends ALWAYS conveniently forgets to bring his checkbook or cash to pay! Such people who don't want to contribute are not needed.

With that said though, even if Nigeria completely breaks apart, I'm fine with the Yoruba standing alone. We have lots of offshore oil on our coast, the wonderful city of Lagos, and millions of talented people abroad who will have strong incentive to move back and build the land of their ancestors.

So let me ask my Igbo people a question. If somehow the North left, would you guys want to split from the remainder too? Personally I'm of the opinion that it would be possible to form a very good, strongly federalist state (with very weak central gov't) with the remainder of Nigeria. But I suspect that due to past history (especially events from the Biafra war), you guys would want to leave if you could.

I'd be fine with either choice, but am curious.

This question also goes to Edo, Delta minorities, Middle Belters, too. And to my Itsekiri and my Yoruba from Kwara, which side will you choose? Keep in mind that in all cases, I advocate a strongly federalist state, with constituent states having most of the power over their affairs.

I dunno, a lot of Igbo people accuse him of genocide, hatred of their people, etc. I don't think they think much of him. But at the end of the day, I don't really care, he is a hero to my people, and that is all that really matters from my perspective.

There is nothing wrong with Yoruba people moving to Yorubaland. Heck, you can be of Yoruba descent from Brazil or Cuba and move here, if you like.

And if people from the Chad Republic etc want to move to Northern Nigeria, that is OK, so long as the residents there are fine with it. Of course, the problem is that Northern Nigeria is never their final destination, they want to move to the south to beg and commit crime. We do not need any beggars, criminals and terrorists from Chad, Niger, etc in Yorubaland. Go back home.

na2day!:
At least we know where the Iranian bombs are going!  

There is no need for bombs. If the North wants to go, I'll help them pack! Even give them some pocket money for their journey. You will not find anyone in Southern Nigeria who opposes an Almajiri Republic.

Awolowo was the greatest Yorubaman of recent memory. My father's side of the family likely would have had a much more difficult time paying for school if it hadn't been for him. His self-sacrifice and love of his people (actually, not only his own people, but all those in the Western Region and Nigeria more generally) is still yielding dividends today. Such foresight, wisdom, and intelligence. Truly a great man. In the Yoruba pantheon of heros, no one is greater.

No Nigeria? Sounds good to me. Let them go contest for office in the Almajiri Republic.

He simply doesn't get it. Yoruba people in the 1800s were at war with each other, but then choose to unite as one. But the operative word is choose. Nigerians by and large have chosen not to be one people. Are they selfish for rejecting a decision by the British be rammed down their throats?

Are then two people who are being pressured into marrying each other (against their will) also selfish, then?

E no be by force.

Nope, SW should be planning on how we will leave Nigeria by 2015. Wasting energy fighting over presidency is useless. Unless you are a northern president, then you cannot really use the position to benefit your own people anyway. So what difference does it make whether Yorubaman is president or not?

It is a very sad situation. But expected, since there are no jobs and no hope in the country. If I were a woman, and the only way to feed my family was through prostitution, I'd do it. As a man, if I have a family depending on me and cannot find any other way to provide for them, I'll steal/beg/do 419, heck even kill if necessary to take care of them.

It is what it is, we are all only human and do what we have to do to survive and take care of our loved ones. If rules and laws need to be broken in order to take care of my family, then so be it.

Makes no sense for those of us who are well off to be preaching from above acting like we wouldn't do the same exact thing were the situations reversed.

OBJ, good riddance. An enemy of his own people.

One other point. I honestly am surprised that you as an Igbo man would be against partitioning Nigeria. From what I've seen, you guys have just as much to gain from it as we do (assuming that you don't get kicked out of Lagos and Southwestern Nigeria, which of course even if we Yoruba were foolish enough to do that, the United Nations would certainly not permit.)

Like, you guys have a ton of very, very talented people both in Igboland and abroad. I think a lot of the policies of the Nigerian government actually serve to depress the productivity of Igbo people. With your own nation, those forces would be gone, and you could grow at your natural rate (which I suspect is quite a bit higher than the current one.)

If your people were all dumb and poor, then I could see being against partitioning. Or if you guys were leeching off of the rest of the country. But given that the opposite is true, it seems to me that partitioning would serve you well (again, assuming you still have access to your current markets.)

Heck, I would be happy (well, more happy) with the level of states rights that the US states enjoy, not to talk of those European countries enjoy relative to the EU.

California has its own police, militia, control of taxes and natural resources that come out of its soil, full control over the education system of the state, runs its own universities (most of the best Nigerian universities are federal owned). And I will point out, btw, that the California university system is probably one of the best in the world, if you are able to get into Berkeley, UCLA, etc, you are getting a world-class education for well under $5K a year.

If would be as if you took away our police, militia, most of the tax revenue we generate and instead make us dependent on the federal gov't, take away control of how we set our educational system, took away our ability to set environmental standards, took our elite public universities and made them federally own/run, took away our right to have a unique constitution (and the California constitution is VERY unique).

Basically, if this happened here, California would suck @ss.

That is effectively what is done in Nigeria. States are just vestigal appendages of the federal gov't. Except for Lagos of course, which has the economic might and of course the intrinsically resilient Yoruba nature(   ) to prevent it from being bullied by the Feds.

Ikengawo:
nigeria already is like the european union. itsa FEDERAL republic.

No. In name it is, but in actual fact it is a very centralized government. No local police. No local militia. States deriving most of their money from cash payments from the federal government. I mean, seriously compare and contrast the powers of your own state vis-a-vis Nigeria and the powers of say Spain vis-a-vis the EU.

It isn't about hatred, dislike, or whatever. I just want progress for my people. And I don't think Nigeria is is the right vehicle for achieving that goal for the Yoruba. Like I said, you seem be conflating a desire for political separation with something more than that. Political separation does not mean economic, social, etc separation. The issues are nearly orthogonal.

If you like, imagine my proposal as turning Nigeria into something the European Union, with Yorubaland as one of the composite states. I'm happy to cooperate economically with my neighbors, but this doesn't mean I want to share a gov't with them.

Ikengawo:
Here's one clear and simple point that puts an end to all of this.

Tribe is a 'problem' because of one thing, it's a fraction. a factor that divides and allows ppl to say this is US and that is THEM. This can, i admit, be extremely problematic.


but is tribe the ONLY fraction in nigeria?

are there not fractions between the yoruba?
there are even more between the Igbo and even look at the church
even the word of christ comes in anglican, catholic, luthern, and 100000 locally made divisions


Protestants are killing Catholics in Ireland. East Germans are still resentful of West Germans.
Black americans from one block attack black americans from another block with block being the only division
Africas example of homogenous nationhood, Somalia, is the most divided nation in the world because there family clans are the new fraction and they're using this division to kill each other.


The fights between muslim and christian in nigeria will never out number the fights between Umokwe (my village) and Eshieke (a neighboring village)
or Anglican v. Catholic  in my community.





So lets say we split nigeria cause tribe is something we can't deal with cause it's a fraction, is it the only one? Nobody has killed more Yoruba people then other Yoruba people.





As the world is moving closer to uniting everyone we should stop being the only country with a sizable population advocating further division.
tribe is just another fraction. As much as you want to pretend the next yoruba man is your brother the only thing you have in common is language.
He's as much your brother as somebody who eat with the same hand as you, or someone that visits this site like you. Its just another fraction, it wont be the last and it will always exist and destroying what nigerians have fought and died to maintain intact is not going to end division.

How is this any of your concern? If Yorubaland goes free and we kill ourselves, how is it any of your affair? We still have the right to self-determination.

Anyway, your concerns are overblown. Our leadership (primarily the prescient Awolowo) has done a great job of binding us into one people; time, contrast against our neighbors and intermarriage of done the rest. Moreover, we've never been particularly obsessed about religion, in my own family alone I have Christian, Muslim, Catholic, Jehovah's Witness, Mormon, and atheists.

Regarding your last comment, maybe amongst the Igbo, things work differently. But even random Yoruba I meet out here in San Francisco show me tremendous amounts of love. I can relate lots of anecdotes to you, but in the interest of time I won't. Let it suffice to say that it is highly doubtful that I would feel the same strong feeling about my people if it weren't for those I've met who upon hearing my name, treat me like a son/brother/etc.

I actually promised myself that I would not respond until the weekend, as I have a school deadline. However, promises are made to be broken.

Ikengawo:
also, you people want to speak of nigeria as if it IS somalia


Nigeria REALLY isn't doing that bad, its just we all agree it can be better. On that very same continent we are leaps ahead of the countries we share it with except a few.

WTF? Nigeria sucks ass, right now. No power, no roads, no jobs, massive corruption. It is a terrible place to live for your average Nigerian. And how on earth can you compare Nigeria to the other terrible countries in Africa, and view that as a plus? I'm gunning for Switzerland and Canada, not comparing myself to Senegal or Cambodia. "Really isn't doing that bad", indeed. Open your eyes, man.

The only country that can boast to have what nigeria doesnt is South Africa and its a 150 year old country.
Nigeria just turned 50 and we think we 'failed' because it's not Sweden.

False, South Africa is 100 or 50 years old, depending on how you want to keep track of things.

We have achieved a remarkable amount together, all indicators show we're one of the fastest growing countries in the world and we're listed as a Next 12 (next 12 countries to reach development).

Fastestest growing! A poor man with $1 to his name, if you give him $10 his net worth has increased by 1000%. Fastest growing, indeed. My family left Nigeria in the late 80s. When we left, there was no power. 20+ years, still the same situation! What type of backwards country does not have simple electricity? My ex-girlfriend spent an extensive amount of time in a 3rd world country in the Caribbean. I mistakenly assumed that electricity and power would be expensive there, as it is in Nigeria, she told me that it is dirt cheap. Do you not realize how bad the situation in this country is, my man?

Nigeria is great because in the face of monsters that have devoured lesser people we survive and keep going.
for example it's shameful we dont have electricity, but we became the fastest growing construction market in the world, the 3rd fastest growing economy in the world, the most successful telecoms market in the world, 2nd largest economy in africa with no light.

we produce cars that can match the industrial giants with no lights
we've produced a movie industry larger then hollywood without a single studio or film school
with a crumbling education system we've produced noble laureates

and this is in 50 years, a blip in time.

Good God. This is exactly why I want Yorubaland free of Nigeria. We have BIGGER goals in mind than the meaningless, empty accomplishments you tout. There is no more time to waste, even countries Yorubaland was ahead of in the 60s were are now behind. This is entirely unacceptable. If you are happy with mediocrity, by all means stick with Nigeria. But the rest of us are under no obligation to stay.

Is there some sort of Ekiti online message board or mailing list that is well-frequented? We sorta need all hands on deck here, now is the time to brainstorm for how to raise the money to get these things done.

Also, I second the mallam/cattle issue. Get the heck out of my state. Add nothing of value and just eat up farmed crops and cause trouble.

I'll likely respond in more detail this weekend. Needless to say, my position has not been changed by the arguments of this thread.

I'm not sure I agree. Lots of those post soviet countries are doing very well. Singapore did extremely well. The states that compose the former Yugoslavia are certainly better off.

Regarding the economic stuff you bring up, economic cooperation does not necessarily mean a single gov't is needed. The EU countries are primarily an economic union, not a political one. Same for NAFTA, whatever the Latin American and South American ones are called too (cannot remember the names off the top of my head.) NAFTA does not give the US the right to interfere in Mexican or Canadian politics, for example. They manage their own affairs, and we meet at the (economic) middle.

Just because I advocate political separation doesn't mean I'm some sort of economic protectionist.

And no, Pakistan and India are both better off than Nigeria, sad as that might sound.

Regarding Pfizer, how much investment are they doing in Nigeria now? Not very much, certainly not enough to butter any bread. Internal development and internal investment are what are required. And I'd be willing to leave America to help build Yorubaland, but am less inclined to fix the gigantic mess that is Nigeria.

In general, splitting problems into smaller, more manageable pieces is a good idea, btw.

Well, as much as this disgusts me, it is good to know. If I ever commit some type of horrible crime here in the US, I can always move back to Nigeria and my countrymen will support me, no matter how much evidence there is against me.

Good to know.

It sickens me that this has been turned into some purported Igbo persecution thing. Why aren't you guys repping my good buddy from high school, an Igbo who went to Harvard and is now finishing his residency? Or my buddy who just finished his PhD in Bioengineering? There are SOOOO many talented Igbo people you could be repping. But instead you choose to pump up a fraud. It is an insult to those who are actually achieving honestly, without any lies or yahooze. I'm absolutely disgusted.

Arysexy:
i have said it many times on NL that the fear of igbo, biafra, ojukwu is d beginning of wisdom for some Yoruba bea.sts on this forum. immediately i saw Emeagwali's name, i knew that these tiger-whisker-faced sons of tribalistic Awolowo will invade this thread like bees, Alas my guess was as good as a prophesy, can u imagine how many views and how many pages still counting. May Amadioha fire all these tribalistic fo.ols that know how to play amala politics without contributing nothing to the development of this country.

The other day, someone posted something about jonathan eulogising anambrarian for their industrial zeal (while commisioning Innoson Auto plant @ nnewi), that thread was again invaded by these animals blaming jonathan for terming Anambra as the brain box of nigeria, and even went ahead to bring ekiti into the matter, can u imagine how tribalistic some mor.ons can be? Mehn i doff my hart for u yoriba cl.owns, u ppl are stil living in the era of 1960s. Am not suprised it was a yoriba witch  called prof  babalawo toyin behind these campaign of calumny against Emeagwali. u guys have a long way to go, mayb because u ppl neva leave your villages to get exposed. foooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.ls

Fear of Igbo? You guys sound like some African American, woe is me, "White man is holding me down" types.

Fear of Igbo, indeed. More like fear of people associating me with Professor Phillip "Yahooze Yahooze" Emeagwali.

Seriously, get over yourself.

EzeUche0:
Thank you! You seem to be a very knowledgeable individual. Kudos to you. I have been telling people this information for a couple of months.

However, what about the case of India. Many ethnic groups, religions and languages.

They fought a fairly bloody war of partition. Remember, India used to be India+Pakistan+Bangladesh. Pakistan and Bangladesh ware carved out as Muslim homelands, they were in fact one country. But the Pakistani side oppressed the Bangladeshi, who then ended up revolting and seeking independence.

To be honest, Pakistan might be better off partitioning, google a bit and read up on some of the ethnic and religous tension there.

Finally, what is now India is primarily unified by Hindu culture and religion. They have thousands of different groups, but iirc 80% of the population shares this same religion, and a large fraction of them speak the same language. Also, unlike the case of Nigeria, large parts of subcontinental India has been united in the past, most recently by the Mughal Empire.

To be honest, India and its component ethnic groups is probably more analogous to Yorubaland and its different subethnic groups than to Nigeria as a whole. Yorubaland has historically been pretty divided. Different parts have different origin stories, different cultures, different religions (Islam, Christianity, indigenous religion). But fortunately, we have a common language and an ancestor Oduduwa (well, if I remember correctly, there is at least one Yoruba group who claims to not be descended from Odudwa).

Sorta see what I'm saying? You need very powerful forces to bind together a country, something like a national religion (Hinduism), or some common language and ancestor (Oduduwa). The forces that hold Nigeria together are too weak to sustain it longterm, imo.