₦airaland Forum

AnonyNymous,

Abel, Seth, Enoch, Abraham all never encountered Jesus. At least, not as we do now. They will all be in Heaven.

You know that after the flood, the world was re-populated through Noah's sons. They surely knew about GOD. It has been theorized that Asians descended from Shem, Caucasians from Japhet, and Africans from Ham(really don't know much about that). However, we know that Satan succeeded in perverting the worship of GOD.

The Ethiopian eunuch took the gospel of Jesus back to Africa. Before the first advent of Jesus, the Jews made proselytes of other nations.

GOD has always made Himself known to men of all nations. The devil is also trying to make men lose sight of GOD.

hopefulLandlord:
let me still engage you a bit

what if I do good with good motive almost all my life, I worship the Saturn god and heard about Christ just once? is it possible I make heaven?

Your use of the pronoun "I" here is funny. I guess you know why.

I can only tell you one sure way to make Heaven: accept Jesus today and turn away from sin.

hopefulLandlord:
its now moved to "motive"

Do you agree that I can donate half my fortune to the poor, build many hospitals, proclaim full scholarship to all the children in my state, and do all those good things with a hidden motive?

AnonyNymous,

LOL.

I cannot say who will go to Heaven, being only human. That, coupled with the fact that humans can do good deeds with hidden motives, makes it futile to guess who will go to Heaven. GOD will reveal the motives behind every works on the last day.

GOD was known in Africa long before now. Remember the children of Israel in Egypt?

AnonyNymous:
So in other words, is the example scenario I gave in the op true according to Christianity? Seems like god is biased then, after all we don't choose where we're born.

For you to do this argument, you have to have a proper knowledge of the character of GOD.

Consider, also, that no one will be in Heaven by accident.

Why are you worried, anyway? Why don't you repent and accept Jesus and live?

Edenoscar:
bro you have failed to answer the question

Don't worry about the people that have not heard the gospel. You've heard it. Repent and live.

AgentOfAllah:
a) Localised clumps due to quantum fluctuations
b) Areas mentioned in (a) cooled down to certain critical temperature
c) Collapsed under group gravity in accordance with Jeans calculations (If you read on Jeans mass, treated specifically for gas clouds, and you understand the mathematics, it should clear your doubt about the clumpability of gases).
d) Stars are born.

Lets move on please, this topic is beyond laboured, as am I. I don't think any serious physicist doubts that gases can collapse due to group gravity.

Please point out how the jeans mass accounted for the first few molecules of hydrogen and helium that clumped together in space, instead of dispersing.

Again, what do you have to say about the meter-size barrier?

OLAADEGBU:
God's rest day doesn't necessarily mean Saturday, it means to work 6 days and rest on the 7th and this was for our benefit (Mark 2:27). This was truly not for the Jews but for all of mankind. God's blessing and hallowing of the 7th day did not apply to the post fall but the pre fall, when everything that God made was perfect. Jesus who is the Creator is also the redeemer of mankind. He knew the purpose why He created the 7th day and it was for us to enter into His rest.

See redefinition of Sabbath. The Sabbath day in the Bible is Saturday! There are extrabiblical proofs of this. Stop deceiving yourself. Can you show us where it says that GOD removed the blessings of the Sabbath after the fall?

To have the agape love of God. This fulfils the whole of God's commandments. Love God and Love your neighbour as you love yourself.

Where does the Bible say that keeping GOD's commandments is having agape love?

How can you love GOD?

AgentOfAllah,

I never said gases cannot solidify. Protostars were not solids, anyway.

I never said gases cannot be liquified. Of course, protostars were not liquids.

How could hydrogen and helium in space not disperse, but instead come together to form clumps?

OLAADEGBU,

GOD instituted the Sabbath at the Creation. He even hallowed it. I don't know what that means to you.

The Law predated Sinai. Abraham kept the commandments of GOD(Gen. 26:5).

You said

Jesus came to tell us the real reason why He instituted the Sabbath day and that was for us to rest from our labours of keeping the commandments

Explain that statement in the light of these verses: "And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of GOD, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ." Romans 12:17

"For this is the love of GOD, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous." 1 Jn. 5:3

Which are GOD's commandments?

raphieMontella:
deists exist o...
Pantheists exist also..
Mind you...there is no where its a ''must of necessity'' for an original to surfice..
Aba boys clone what is inexistent and produce such...

How can you "clone" what does not exist?

You said Jehovah is the fake GOD; which one is the real?

AgentOfAllah:
I hope this is just you trying to be funny. Any way, I give you two words: Dry Ice!

We are talking clumpy gases! Dry ice is solid CO2!

Population III stars were gaseous, and comprised mainly hydrogen and helium(with traces of lithium and beryllium, supposedly!)

That was before any CO2 existed. How did hydrogen or helium clump together to form stars?

AgentOfAllah:
I've already addressed this in my response. You don't need a stable element with mass of 8, all you need is a fast enough reaction between He⁴ and the unstable Be⁸ with a mass of 8 to form C¹². This existence of such a resonant state has been demonstrated in a lab before read about Hoyle's Resonance in my last but one post. Either you should that such a transition is not possible (and the weight of evidence is against you) or you stop repeating the same argument.

Excerpt from the article.

The researchers found the state to have an unusual bent structure, a finding that should identify the forces at work in carbon production.

That is not watertight submission. This article is still speculating about carbon production. It doesn't account for all the heavy elements we have in the universe today, does it?

raphieMontella,

If there is a fake, there must, of necessity, be a real. And if there is no real, there is then no fake.

If Jehovah is the fake GOD, who is the real GOD?

It wouldn't be bad to admit that you haven't seen gases clump together, you know.

AnonyNymous:
To you, worshiping the sun is bad. To him, worshiping a man who claims to be god is bad. There's so much to be skeptical about in Christianity. If there wasn't, there would be no atheists. But since you don't want to admit that, then have a nice day. My question is asking what would happen next, after you told someone who was going to heaven previously because of his good deeds, but is now going to hell because one stranger told him to believe in a man from a million miles away.

Nobody is going to Heaven base on his/her good deeds.

He is to blame if, after I make him understand that the man one million miles away is in the Heaven he hopes to make(which is also 1 million miles away), he refuses to accept that man into his life.

Fun fact: Nobody is going to be in Heaven by accident.

AgentOfAllah,

Clarification: If you will look at any standard table of the elements, you will find that the atomic weight of hydrogen is 1.008. (Deuterum is a form of hydrogen with a weight of 2.016.) Next comes helium (4.003), followed by lithium (6.939), beryllium (9.012), boron (10.811), etc. Gaps in atomic weight exist at mass 5 and 8.

But cannot hydrogen explosions cross those gaps? No. Nuclear fission (a nuclear bomb or reactor) splits (unevenly halves) uranium into barium and technetium. Nuclear fusion (a hydrogen bomb) combines (doubles) hydrogen into deuterum (helium 2), which then doubles into helium 4—and stops there. So a hydrogen explosion (even in a star) does not go across the mass 5 gap.

How then could you say minerals were formed in a star?

Continue, AgentOfAllah,

Hydrogen bomb explosions produce deuterum (hydrogen 2), which, in turn, forms helium 4. In theory, the hydrogen bomb chain reaction of nuclear changes could continue changing into ever heavier elements until it reached uranium;—but the process is stopped at the gap at mass 5. If it were not for that gap, our sun would be radiating uranium toward us!

"In the sequence of atomic weight numbers 5 and 8 are vacant. That is, there is no stable atom of mass 5 or mass 8 . . The question then is: How can the build-up of elements by neutron capture get by these
gaps? The process could not go beyond helium 4 and even if it spanned this gap it would be stopped again at mass 8. This basic objection to Gamow’s theory is a great disappointment in view of the promise and philosophical attractiveness of the idea."—*William A. Fowler, California Institute of Technology, quoted in Creation Science, p. 90.

AgentOfAllah,

The nuclear gaps at mass 5 and 8 make it impossible for hydrogen or helium to change itself into any of the heavier elements. This is an extremely important point, and is called the "helium mass 4 gap" (that is, there is a gap immediately after helium 4). Therefore exploding stars could not produce the heavier elements. (Some scientists speculate that a little might be produced, but even that would not be enough to supply all the heavier elements now in our universe.) Among nuclides that can actually be formed, gaps exists at mass 5 and 8.Neither hydrogen nor helium can jump the gap at mass 5. This first gap is caused by the fact that neither a proton nor a neutron can be attached to a helium nucleus of mass 4. Because of this gap, the only element that hydrogen can normally change into is helium. Even if it spanned this gap, it would be stopped again at mass 8.

AnonyNymous:
You still don't get it. Yes, all this depends on IF you convert the person. But to someone who believes that the Sun is his god, and has had visions revealed to him by the sun in his dreams, you yourself know that it'll be hard for him to accept your story that a man who lived millions of miles away and turned water into wine is the human form of god. Also, before you told him any of that, if he was a good person, Christians tell me that if you had no access to Jesus, but lived a good life, you'd still go to heaven. But now that you told him, and h chooses not to believe because it doesn't make sense to him, all his goodness has gone to waste, he's going to hell.

Is worshiping the sun god good?

Except the person is prejudiced towards Christianity, I don't think it's hard to accept the fact that Christ loves you and that He, despite being GOD, sacrificed His life just to make sure you spend eternity in the most wonderful Place ever known.

AnonyNymous:
I'm saying for the sake of this discussion, let us assume heaven exists. Now, why would you go to someone who has never heard about Jesus, and tell him, knowing the implications it could have on his salvation. . . when you yourself are pretty sure he won't swallow your whole story hook, line and sinker.

1. Jesus is the most loving Person ever! It would be a crime against my conscience to refrain from introducing people to this loving Friend.

2. Jesus is Salvation. Receiving Jesus is receiving Salvation.

3. You don't need to understand everything in the Bible before you make Heaven. Just accept Jesus.

4. I cannot bear to see somebody doing something wrong, and refrain from telling the person that GOD doesn't like what he's doing.

5. If I convert the person, he will become a co-labourer, and this good news will be spread to all the nations quickly, and then the end will come quickly, and we will go to Heaven.

AgentOfAllah:
What do you think happens to gasses under the influence of Van Der Waals bond?

What is Van Der Waals bond?

If you meant Van Der Waals force, I am pleased, then, to inform you that Van Der Waals force exists between molecules of the same substance. Thus, it cannot exist between hydrogen and helium. Also, gas pushes apart; it does not clump together.

Fun fact: All gas in outer space has a density so rarified that it is far less than the emptiest atmospheric vacuum pressure bottle in any laboratory in the world!

With these in mind, can you give me examples of gases that clump together?

raphieMontella:
I dont expect you to believe tho.
once again...sorry guys for interferring o..
F U ORIONIS
technical report on the star

Please read this.

Please.

By the way, your interference is welcome.

As far as it is constructive LOL.

AgentOfAllah,

You have again shown that you don't even have a good knowledge of stellar evolution. Have you heard of the "helium mass 4 gap"?

There is no way heavy elements could have formed, going by the stellar evolution.

Read more.

Antiparticle,

I want you to read this article with an open mind. Tell me what you think afterwards.

AgentOfAllah:
Is this a trick question? Let's start with all the naturally occurring elements, compounds and molecules in existence.

For stars to have formed after the Big Bang, gases would need to clump together. Have gases ever been observed to clump together?

AgentOfAllah,

You said that the product of a supernova is

Everything from single elements to compounds, molecules and minerals.

Although this is terribly wrong, given that the analysis of the Crab supernova of A.D. 1054 revealed the presence of only hydrogen and helium, I still have a question for you:

The first-generation(population III) stars were made up of only hydrogen and helium, supposedly. How then did "compounds and molecules and minerals" form in the stars? What minerals formed in the stars?

AnonyNymous:
OK, you do so because you were instructed to by your book. That's alright. But, did you consider the implications of doing that as relating to the op? Indirectly 'Sending people away from heaven'.

It was the same Holy Book that told you that Heaven exists.

"And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen." Matt. 28:18-20.

We preach the good news of the gospel all over the world at the behest of our Lord. We have found joy and a great treasure. We cannot contain it. We must, as a matter of necessity, share this joy with others.

We also preach this good news because we are "looking for and hasting unto the day of the Lord..." 2 Pet. 3:12. We can actually hasten the day of our Lord by spreading the good news!

"...This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then the end shall come." Matt. 24:14

Quoting the Bible out of context just to support your false ideas will do you no good.

"GOD is a spirit..." Jn. 4:24 The human mind is not a spirit

GOD is worshipped. The human mind is not.

GOD created all that is seen and unseen. The human mind did not.

GOD redeemed humanity through His Son. The human mind did not.

GOD will judge all flesh at last. The human mind will not.

The Kingdom of GOD is within us. He has transformed our once filthy lives and made it noble. He now reigns supreme through our whole being. Indeed, our bodies are temples to the Holy Spirit. He dwells and reigns there.

Stop deluding yourself. Fear GOD and give Him the glory, for the hour of His judgment is come. And worship Him that made the Heavens and the earth, and the seas, and the fountains.(Rev. 14:7).

Lennycool:
Noah's flood was fiction, absolutely no evidence whatsoever. A crude theft of an even older story a thousand years before it.

Okay.

"But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only." Matt. 24:36

"But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night..." 2 Pet. 3:10

"For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape." 1 Thess. 5:3

During Noah's days, his message was the most ridiculous thing on earth. Or was it?

Before they knew what was happening, Noah had entered the ark, and GOD securely shut the door. Then the flood came and wiped all of them out.

This is just exactly how it will be with Christ's return.

Amen. Even so, Maranatha.