₦airaland Forum

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¤ A Hungarian soldier Paul Kern recovered from a head wound he sustained during the World War II, but was never able to sleep again. Be careful with your head.

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¤ A duck's quack doesn't echo. No one knows why.(Where my science gurus at?)

¤ 28TH JUNE IS THE INTERNATIONAL CAPSLOCK DAY.

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¤ Dogs can have fatal reactions to eating chocolates. Chocolate contains a bitter alkaloid called Theobromine, also known as Xantheose, and that's the ingredient that's bad for dogs.

¤ Wine bottles were named for Biblical kings and historical figures. Wine bottles whose equivalents are 15, 27 and 30 litres are called Nebuchadnezzar, Goliath and Melchizedek respectively. See the rest here

¤ A gallon is approximately equal to 4 litres(though we have the Imperial gallon which is about 4.55 litres), and not that popular yellow 25-litre jerrycan most people think.

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Please I would like to represent Abia State University(ABSU).

Is it a surprise that religious features like preaching(against the idea of gods), evangelism(to convert to atheism), and pastor-congregation relationships are seen even among atheists?

Man is religious by nature. He must worship. It doesn't matter what he worships. It can be GOD, trees, cows, celestial bodies, stones, gold, his fellow man, himself or even his own sense of judgment.

Nice post, OP. May GOD continue to bless you.

ValentineMary:
It's because of the bold text that I don't trust people's testimony. It could be biased by many factor. That's why a more logical step by step approach would be better appreciated.

I would really like to know what you consider a logical way of analyzing the claim of the existence of a Conscious Watchman.

While we are allowed to take everything we hear from people with a pinch of salt, I believe there isn't much we can do empirically in the quest to ascertain the existence of a Conscious Watchman.

A proper analysis of the popular definition of this Conscious Watchman will reveal this.

I'm not a grammar Nazi but I think it wouldn't be bad if the OP or lalasticlala corrects that word in the title of this thread from "match" to "march".

That said, I am saddened by the death of the motorcyclist.

SisterMe:
Anyone?!

Are you trying to ascertain the validity of the doctrine of Trinity?

ValentineMary:
We can't obviously see jealousy or shame but there are empirical analytic approach to know that what u feel is shame or jealousy. For example anger towards someone success can be describes as jealousy, feeling humiliated or publicly disgraced can be seen as shame.

Now my qus is what are the analytic method to logically prove this watchman.

PS: I am not just talking of the Abrahamic God or any specific God.

Human beings report contact with a Watchman in many ways. It can be through a divine revelation, a miraculous healing/intervention, or even an unusual feeling of peace, joy and happiness.

While you might be quick to blow away these as hearsay and unsubstantiated, remember that each of the characteristics humans exhibit when they feel shame can also be exhibited by them even when they are not feeling shame.

ValentineMary:
Such things like jealousy has a way of knowing its presence. The manifestation it brings. Take us go back to our dark matter analogy. We can precisly tell it's presence and density by gravitational lensing.
So even though we visually analyse it, we can make other indirect search on it.

And I have a problem with taking people's testimony and not empirical evidence. Personal testimony is subjective and the interpretation might be wrong.

While we can assert the presence of such things as jealousy by analyzing their effects, we cannot see/observe jealousy itself! We only see its effects.

This problem you have with accepting other people's testimony is the problem of empiricists: if it has not happened to them, it is not true.

If I have never felt shame in my life, would I be right to assert that shame does not exist?

Scholar8200:
But he had been keeping them? Why didnt Jesus then urge him on along that path?

Brother, can you kindly read Matt. 19:16-21 and carefully observe the sequence of things in that text?

Simple, in the life of this young man, the Law had achieved its purpose,viz,bringing us to Christ, the Only Source of that Life!!!

Read Matt. 19:16-21. Then think again.

The question is still not answered.

There is a distinct command to love GOD with our whole heart and sould and mind and strength. We are not asked to wait and experience love for GOD. We are asked to love GOD!

How can we do this?

Scholar8200:
We can only love Him when we believe on Him.


True faith works by love:

20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen? 21 And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.

1 John 4:20,21

Still taking us to the Greatest commandment.


The rich, young ruler came to Jesus, he had obeyed the 10 commandments and you know what? The only condition of life the Master had for him was total surrender , and intimacy with Him! That is belief - total surrender in absolute dependence and an ever-growing intimacy!

Jesus said "...but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments." Matt. 19:17

Scholar8200:
We can only love Him when we believe on Him.


True faith works by love:

20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen? 21 And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.

1 John 4:20,21

Still taking us to the Greatest commandment.

The Summary of the law is double-barrelled: there is the distinct command to love GOD with our whole heart and soul and mind and strength. Then there is the command to love our neighbor as ourselves.

Please, how do we love GOD with our whole heart and soul and mind and strength?

Scholar8200:
By believing on Him. Because it is only by this that, having believed:
... God’s love has been abundantly poured out within our hearts through the Holy Spirit who was given to us.
Romans 5:5

Belief in GOD is not the same thing as loving GOD.

"Thou believest that there is one GOD; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble." James 2:19

So, how can we love GOD?

Scholar8200:
That is why we dont get saved by keeping the law but by faith and we :

... died to the Law through the [crucified] body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to Him who was raised from the dead, in order that we may bear fruit for God.
Romans 7:4

Great.

Please be kind enough to answer these questions:

1. Do you have any god before Jehovah?

2. Do you make any graven image for yourself and worship it?

3. Do you take GOD's name in vain?

4. Do you treat your parents with disrespect?

5. Do you kill people?

6. Do you commit sexual sin?

7. Do you steal?

8. Do you bear false witness?

9. Do you covet?

Scholar8200:
vs 10 He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.

The Greatest commandment is his emphasis. Note that it's singular-commandment, not plural commandments.

"For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all." James 2:10

Scholar8200:
vs 10 He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.

The Greatest commandment is his emphasis. Note that it's singular-commandment, not plural commandments.

How can we love GOD?

Really? Did you not see the word "nothing" in Acts 28:17? Or did you not see the plural word "customs" there? Is circumcision the only custom of the Jews?

Don't interprete the Bible to mean what you want.

ValentineMary:
This is not a logical step by step approach to answering the qus. U only gave a conclusion.
And from ur definition u are right there are many things we can't observe yet they are real eg dark matter. But we have other techniques for finding and proving them. What technique do u think is acceptable for proving ur claim?

I submit that there are aspects of reality that cannot be subjected to empirical tests, or even be observed. Their existence must be accepted as truth based on the testimony of the individual feeling that aspect of reality.

Take for example, I don't believe that the emotion "shame" exists. Mr. A tells me that he is ashamed of Mr. B. There is no way I can empirically observe shame in Mr. A. Yet, I have to believe what he told me.

Scholar8200:
Now what is that commandment?
Here the good, ol Apostle help us out:

[b] And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment
[/b]1 John 3:23

The latter is the fulfilling of the Law and we cannot truly do the latter without the former!

"Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning." 1 Jn. 2:7

Scholar8200:
If you will read the context you will realise that the major reason Paul went there was because of the gathering that will be there, not to observe the sabbath. Besides, reading further, you will find that they baptised converts. Would I be right to say making a journey out of the city contradicts a claim of sabbath observance?

WRONG!

1. The Jews allowed a maximum distance of travel on the Sabbath day of 2000 cubits. Most cities then were small, and certainly going out of the city gate wouldn't amount to travelling over 2000 cubits.

2. Paul unequivocally stated that he had never broken any law or custom/tradition of their fathers. You think Paul was lying?

Thus, it is not so much the question of a day as it is of a way—the way of obedience through love, or of disobedience through lack of love. Mark it down and never forget it! Keeping the Sabbath, even the true seventh-day Sabbath, is an operation in futility if it does not proceed from a heart full of love and devotion to God. Without love, all law keeping becomes mechanical and miserable, but with love, every commandment becomes a joy and delight. Make this kind of personal love relationship the basis of your Sabbathkeeping, and it will be the happiest day of your week, for the rest of your life!








Please follow this link to find out more about the Sabbath.

In every case, God honors the faith of a Christian
who decides to keep the Sabbath regardless of
what happens to his job. Many times God works
miracles by making special arrangements for the
Sabbathkeeper. In some cases, He allows His children to be tested by losing their jobs, and then opens up better ones in response to their faith. Nevertheless, the “things” are always added when we trust Him and obey, regardless of the circumstances.

The real secret of keeping the Sabbath of the Lord is to have the Lord of the Sabbath in our hearts! It is love that leads God’s children to choose death rather than disobedience to one of His commandments. Jesus said, “If ye love me, keep my commandments” (John 14:15). The apostle John defined love in these words, “For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments” (1 John 5:3).

It is undoubtedly true that Satan has manipulated the economic world to the distinct disadvantage of the Sabbathkeeper, but Godhas never required the impossible.

It is never necessary to break one of God’s commandments for any reason. You may say, “But my employer requires that I work on Saturday, and I can’t let my family starve.” The answer to that dilemma was given by our Lord long ago in the Sermon on the Mount. He said “But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you” (Matthew 6:33). The preceding verse defines “these things” as food, clothes, and job. Jesus is simply telling us that if there is ever a conflict between obeying Him and obeying our employer, we should put Him first. Material considerations should never be made more important than doing God’s will.

No amount of popular, majority opinion can annul the weighty testimony of a plain “Thus saith the Lord.” We must stand upon the Bible and the Bible alone for our doctrine on this subject.

The Word of God declares, “The seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work” (Exodus 20:10). Until we find some indication in the Bible that God retracted that moral law which He introduced to the world with such a fanfare of power and grandeur, we will accept the Ten Commandments as still relevant and binding today. God said what He meant, and He meant what He said.

Some argue that God exempts us from the fourth commandment because it is impossible to keep the seventh day in the competitive, industrialized society in which we have to earn a living.

Think for a moment! If Paul had ever deliberately broken the Sabbath, or kept another day than the seventh, he could not have declared truthfully that he had done nothing against Jewish custom. On the strength of this unqualified declaration by a man of unimpeachable integrity, we close the search for Sunday keeping authority in the Bible. It just is not there.

Had we been able to find it, our religious obligation would, without doubt, be much easier to fulfill. We would have the support and example of most of the great religious institutions of the land, both Protestant and Catholic.

But we are not looking for the most popular way or the most convenient way; we are looking for the Bible way. And we have found it. In all honesty, we must declare that the prevailing custom of keeping a different day from the one commanded in the great handwritten law of God is contrary to the Word which will finally judge
us.

Cc: Scholar8200

Just suppose this Macedonian
experience had taken place on the first day of the
week instead of the Sabbath. Without question, it
would be cited as absolute evidence for Sunday
worship, and we would have to concur. But what possible arguments can one present against this example of Paul in true Sabbathkeeping?

Again, we read about Paul’s customary practice in these words, “And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures” (Acts 17:2). “And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks” (Acts 18:4).

Finally, we cite the great apostle’s personal testimony that he never kept one Sunday holy in his whole life. Just before his death, Paul made this emphatic statement to the Jewish leaders, “Men and brethren, though I have committed nothing against the people, or customs of our fathers, yet was I delivered prisoner from Jerusalem into the hands of the Romans” (Acts 28:17).

Cc: Scholar8200

Modern critics of the Sabbath try to label Sabbathkeepers as legalists who are aliens to the grace of the gospel. Not so the writers of the Bible, who constantly associate obedience with true salvation by faith. In Acts 16:13 we have positive proof that Paul kept the Sabbath even when there was no synagogue and no Jews. He was ministering in Greece, where there were only a few scattered Jews and no synagogue at all. What did he do on the Sabbath? “And on the sabbath we went out of the city by a river side, where prayer was wont to be made; and we sat down, and spoke unto the women which resorted thither.”

Even with no church to attend, the apostle sought out a spot where religious worship was carried on—a place of prayer by the river—and preached to those who went there. Surely, no one can fail to discern Paul’s deep commitment to the Sabbath as we follow him in this unusual outdoor mission.

There are some very interesting points in these dynamic verses that validate the Sabbath practices of Paul and his fellow Christians. After preaching in the synagogue, where the Gentiles were not permitted to enter, Paul was besieged by the Gentiles with an appeal to preach to them “the next Sabbath.” Many have charged that Paul only preached in the synagogues on the Sabbath because he had a ready-made crowd of Jews to work on. This is a false claim. In this instance, Paul made an appointment to minister to the Gentiles on the following Sabbath, and according to verse 43, many of those who heard him that day were “proselytes” to the faith. This means they were converts to Christianity, and Paul and Barnabas “persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.”

How interesting it is that their Sabbath worship is spoken of in the context of continuing in God’s grace!

[size=14]The Day The Disciples Kept[/size]

Now that we have exhausted all possible sources for Sunday keeping without finding the smallest favorable evidence, let us turn to the inspired history of that early church. If they did not keep the first day of the week, which day did they observe? The book of Acts establishes a consistent pattern of seventh-day Sabbathkeeping. On one occasion, Paul was petitioned by the Gentiles to hold an exclusive service for them on the Sabbath. “And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath … And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God” (Acts 13:42, 44).

Later, someone had forgotten to cancel the order, and the daily sentry ritual had continued through the years—soldiers with their guns, guarding nothing but an empty rose plot.

Today there are millions of sincere Christians who are religiously trying to protect the sanctity of Sunday. They don’t realize that there is really nothing to guard. The first day of the week is just as devoid of holiness as the deserted courtyard of roses. Jesus said, “Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up” (Matthew 15:13).

I am reminded of the story of a Russian czar who took a walk one morning in the border area of his extensive palace grounds. There he saw a soldier with a gun on his shoulder marching up and down near a deserted corner of the courtyard wall. He asked the soldier, who was apparently on sentry duty, what he was guarding. The man replied that he was only following orders and did not know why he was assigned to that particular spot. The czar asked the captain of the guard what the soldier was doing, but he had no idea either. The general in charge of the palace security was consulted, but he could give no reason for the assignment. Finally, the king ordered a search of the dusty military records, and the mystery was unfolded. Years and years before, the queen mother had planted some rose bushes in that corner ofthe courtyard, and a soldier had been sent to protect the tender plants from being trampled.