₦airaland Forum

AgentOfAllah,

I think you need to see this article about WMAP.

AgentOfAllah,

How did you know that stars existed 200 million years after the Big Bang? What about the fully formed planets scientists saw when they peered over 13.2 billion years into the past?

When inelastic collisions occur, the objects involved don't stay joined forever.

It is rather funny that what you hold as truth on the origin of the Universe is mere speculation/hypothesis.

I must laugh at your "football and the earth" example . Football does not stick inseparably to the earth. That is not an example of two spinning bodies joining together.

Are you trying to modify your words? Has "outer layers" suddenly turned into "vector"?

I'm happy you said this is your imagination. You can hold on to your imagination. But it's not the truth, anyway.

AgentOfAllah:
The only view that was solely mine in the description is the supposition that earth's pressure melted its core. This view is wrong, and I have since corrected it. However, there are many brilliant documentaries on the origins of the earth on YouTube. I encourage you to watch them.

Here's one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhBc8iHGODo

I have been playing all along with your "rocks came together to form the earth" idea, maybe to see if you can realize how ridiculous it is. Actually, that assertion is as wrong as it can be. Have you ever heard of the "meter size barrier"?

Maybe you need to read more, eager scientist.

AgentOfAllah,

Most stars are between 1 - 10 billion years old, scientists say. They also say some stars may be close to 13.8 billion years old. But I want you to note the phrase "may be." That's about how certain it is. May be.

If gravitational force is not magnetic, why did the first two rocks which came together in the process of earth formation not bounce of each other?

When a Supernova occurs, what is the nature of the resulting debris? Also, have two spinning bodies ever been observed to join together?

Supposedly, two or more rocks came together and joined themselves. How can their outer layers exert pressure on their centre?

How did space debris make the earth liquid?

AgentOfAllah,

Moreover, if the above description is your view of how the earth was formed, then you must be the only one who holds such a view.

Which means it is not the truth. I wonder why you preach it with much fervor and ardor.

AgentOfAllah,

No fully formed star or planet like we have now should exist less than 0.6 billion years after the Big Bang. Maybe you need to read more on the what scientists found after peering over 13.2 billion years into the past.

Is gravitational force magnetic? According to you, two rocks joined together in space due to gravity. Then another rock joined them. Another joined them. And then we have the earth. How did those jointed rocks manage to start rotating on their axis?

Can you give an example of an object whose core heats up due to immense pressure if it becomes massive? Did anything compress the earth(conglomeration of gravity-joined rocks)? What was that?

AgentOfAllah,

You have again carefully avoided the question I asked. Why did the cameras capture fully formed stars and planets like we have now, when they supposedly peered over 13.2 billion years into the past? They shouldn't see stars and planets like we have now since they saw close to the Big Bang. Why is that?

If the earth was formed the way you said, then two heavy things should be able to stick together if you brought them close enough, because of gravitational force. Yes?

Again, if arbitrary rocks continued to be pulled together by gravitational force to form the earth, how did the earth manage to realize an oblate spheriodal shape?

.

akintom:
Sorry about the mix up.

I meant to quote ANTIPARTICLE.

Without any intended patronage of antiparticle, he's demonstrated to me an exemplary intellectual maturity, pure intention, and appreciable empathy.

These are what endeared me in his contribution. AgentofAllah was a delicious icing.

In any way, you're welcome.

.

Antiparticle,

You will agree with me that you can only discuss and evaluate such things as happened after you were born as far as your memory can recollect. You cannot discuss or evaluate what happened at least within the first year after your birth. You only believe what you were told happened then. And if a child happens to lose his parents who brought him up, and indeed all the people who could relate to him the things that happened when he was still a baby, before they could do so, then you can agree with me that such a child has no means of knowing with certainty what happened(at least with regards to his origin) then. He only knows with certainty as far as his memory can recollect. I hope you catch my logic here.

Yea. What do you think about the fact that the dating of the ice cores in Antarctica are based on the assumptions that the accumulation rate has not varied greatly over the past?

Isn't it funny that most Big Bangists cannot tell you the situation of things before the Big Bang, or what existed before the Big Bang, or even what the Big Bang is, yet they believe that the Big Bang happened?

AgentOfAllah:
1) Rocks are minerals that were manufactured by exploding stars, not directly by elementary particles.
2) Why do you say the rocks of earth are electrically neutral (I assume this is what you meant)? This is not true. Many minerals found in rocks have net electric charges. (I hate to sound like a broken record, but I insist you watch the NASA video I shared)
3) When the rocks become massive enough, gravity takes over. Gravity is a very weak force, but its effect is noticeable when massive objects are involved. It is what's keeping the earth together. Gravity is also what keeps the sun together, against the immense outward pressure from nuclear fusion.

So gravity continued to pull rocks together until the earth was formed? Is that how the earth was formed?

You couldn't even tell me when gravity began to exist. LOL.

AgentOfAllah,

LOL. Apart from the salt video, which other matter has been observed to form spontaneously into clumps?

Why did the cameras capture planets and stars like we have now when they supposedly peered into the past as far as 13.2 billion years ago? Nobody asked you about waves. Stick to the question.

If you don't know when the physical laws began to act, I take it that you don't know enough to make claims like "matter spontaneously forms clumps."

AgentOfAllah,

When the first elementary particles managed to form the first few electrically stable molecules of the rocks which make up the earth now, what forces brought and kept them together to form the earth?

Edited.

AgentOfAllah,

You may need to revise your Big Bang theory textbook again. The Universe is clumpy in the sense that there are great walls of galaxy and great voids in between them. Thus, background radiation should be clumpy and not uniform. In other words, the temperature of this radiation should be uneven--there should be hot spots and cold spots. But why is the radiation even?

I guess you're in for more shock because the theory of relativity is false and contains self-destructing error.

If you cannot tell me exactly how the Universe came to be, and what processes occurred before the Big Bang, then I guess I don't have much to learn from you on this topic.

Scientists supposedly saw as far back as 13.2 billion years ago. The Universe is 13.8 billion years old. Why did they not see pictures of a pre-formed Universe? Why did they see stars and planets just like we have now? I don't need much words from you. Stop blaming the camera that caught the images.

When did physical laws start to function?

donnffd:
Lol...what makes you think i want eternal life?, wont it get tiring and boring after the first 10,000years?

I know that not everybody wants eternal life. People have different choices.

No. It will never be boring throughout eternity.

stephenmorris:
winner01 shei you here later you will accuse atheists of killing millions

You think this is about arguments? How many people did Joseph Stalin murder? Perhaps, if you add it to the number of people Mao Zedung murdered, you'll have well over 150 million.

Repent and flee the wrath of GOD which is to come!

Many people don't know that the Catholic church now is the same church that murdered over 150 million people during the Dark Ages for refusing to adopt her idolatrous and abominable mode of worship.

The Catholic church appears mild and tender now, but all those decrees upholding the execution and total annihilation of "heretics" are still considered by the Catholic church as doctrine. Very soon, her full character will be made known to all.

Antiparticle, Aye sir! We good.

donnffd,

This little summary of mine, though imperfect, might be of help to you:

GOD has always been. He will always be. He is Love and He radiates Love. He wanted to create beings whom He would love, and who will be able to choose to love and serve Him for the loving Creator He is. He would create them with freewill and not as robots without minds of their own. He knew that the gift of freewill will be abused, and that rebellion will arise from one of His creatures with freewill.

What should He do? Not create beings capable of choosing to love Him because one of them would choose not to do so? No. He is able to salvage the situation should one of His creatures rebel and introduce sin. He creates angels, including Lucifer. Lucifer decides not to give the glory to GOD. Sin comes. Satan is cast out. GOD creates man. Man decides to disobey GOD. Sin spreads to man.

GOD will not leave man to suffer. He has provided salvation in Jesus Christ. Receive Him and receive eternal life.

Kay17:
Then he must have been foolish to 'choose' pride despite knowing it's pitfalls. He must have known the futility in besting God. Besides i have reservations that pride is a conscious act rather it's a feeling that comes before the thought of pride. Emotions come when they wish. love hate etc come without active thoughts

This leads us to the first post I made on this thread.

donnffd:
But he knew he would be satan later on...

Well, yes.

KingEtienneSky:
WHERE did Lucifer commit his own sin?

I think you need to start reading this thread from the beginning.

AgentOfAllah,

It has been observed that the Universe tends to disorder rather than order! Books strewn around the whole place can never arrange themselves into a pile. Instead, the tendency is for a pile of books to scatter all over. There is more possibility for a sand structure to disintegrate into grains of sand than for sand grains to come together and form a sand structure.

How did particles strewn around the whole place after the Big Bang organize themselves to form the solar system, including earth that contains life with its complexity and highly ordered nature?

Edited.

AgentOfAllah,

It's either you're not thoroughly informed with the provisions of the Big Bang in relation to the structure of the Universe right now, or you chose to ignore that. For you to assert that the uniformity of the cosmic microwave radiation throughout the universe is in harmony with the Big Bang, I think the former is the case. The universe is very very clumpy, and the microwave radiation should not be uniform! Why is it so? Your analogy of the ball-in-oven doesn't add up here. I must laugh at the picture you tagged "baby universe." First, how did space expand?

Explain exhaustively the state of things before the Big Bang.

Moreover, we've been able to see beyond 13.2 billion years ago. Explain why the pictures we see are not those of a pre-formed, disorderly universe, or even the Big Bang itself, but of stars and planets and ordered structures like our own.

KingEtienneSky:
So, heaven won't be made of androids afterall. In which case, some guy with "free will" will go berserk and rebel against God, starting the hypothetically concluded cycle of good and evil, all over again? Or, maybe there will be no freewill in heaven? If there will be, evil will be INEVITABLE, going by your argument (since you seem to be blaming the existence of evil on freewill).

Nobody will sin in Heaven again. On earth, we are going through a character-moulding process. Those who will be admitted to Heaven are those who have shown that they are willing/resolved to obey GOD, and never disobey, to the end, even at the cost of their own lives. They have shown on earth that they hate sin totally, in whatever form it comes, and that they prefer living in obedience to GOD's holy laws, even till death. Their character is of obedience to GOD. They will then be granted access into the new Heavens and the new earth which GOD will make.

There will be no more sin.

Kay17:
Did the Devil choose to be proud and jealous or it was his predisposition to be proud and jealous?

Satan chose to become proud. Although GOD placed him in an exalted position, he began to think too much of himself and his splendour, and not of the GOD that gave all these to him. He began to feel he deserved homage due only to the Creator, because of his exalted position.

OLAADEGBU:
Our Lord Jesus said He was sent to the lost sheep of Israel and where will you get the Jews, the Synagogue, obviously? Paul was sent to take the gospel to the Gentiles and I don't think they were commanded to observe the Sabbath, were they?

Jesus is the Lord of the Sabbath and He is my Saviour and Lord. He has made me to know that the Sabbath is made for man and not the other way round. Did Jesus work on the Sabbath day or not?

You are yet to establish how Paul worshipped on the Sabbath day other than evangelising the Jews.

If you imply that Jesus worshipped on the Sabbath simply to find "the lost sheep of Israel," why then was Jesus going around preaching? Were Jews found then only in the temple on the Sabbath?

You still have not answered why you would keep nine of the commandments and refuse to keep the fourth one.

Prove that Jesus did secular work on the Sabbath day, or that He broke the provisions of Exodus 20:8-11.

donnffd:
So you mean that the pain and suffering is all caused by satan who chose to be evil?

If thats the case, then why did God create him in the first place since God(omni-science) knew that satan would chose to be evil and cause alot of harm to his other creations?

The gift of freewill will surely be abused, and rebellion against GOD will surely arise. But woe to the person through whom these will come.

Bear in mind that GOD did not create Satan; He created Lucifer.

Kay17:
Is the Devil a God?

If the devil saw that he couldn't defeat God, wasn't he unwise to attempt to? If he couldn't foresee then he has no freewill. If he could foresee but acted in detriment of his interest then he is foolish.

Either way, he couldn't have freely acted for either the lack of foresight or for foolishness which is an unconscious disposition.

GOD made it clear to Satan many times that the path he was about to take would lead him no where. However, he allowed pride and jealousy to blind him.

You give birth to a child, and then you continue to warn him that sexual promiscuity will only lead him into contracting venereal diseases. If he eventually contracts HIV through sexual promiscuity, whose fault is it?

donnffd,

After creating man, GOD placed him in a position of authority and control over all creation. He was to subdue the earth. Adam had control over everything, from the smallest microorgansim through the rich arrays of verdure to the mighty leviathan that dwelt in the waters. The lion and lamb lay together before Adam, comfortable in his tender care. The birds would perch on his should as the chanted praises to GOD. When Adam sinned, he fell from his position of authority over creation, and surrendered that authority to Satan. That is why Satan now poses as the prince of this world. Creation became alienated to man. The ground would only yield food after much toil.

Natural disasters and diseases(remember Job?) are caused by Satan. He wrecks havoc, and then attributes them to GOD, in a bid to distort His character. Indeed, do people not call earthquakes and tsunamis "acts of GOD"?

Perhaps, the greatest testimony to Satan's control of this world is the execution of the sinless Son of GOD.