₦airaland Forum

larride:
You can’t make a dent overnight.

People have to trust you first. You have to show leadership attribute before they can even begin to trust your candidacy.

The first point is always your locality. All politics is local.
.

Wrong. Not all politicians started from grassroots.
Some were technocrats or bureaucrats who were simply handpicked by their principals to succeed them.
Eg, Obianno of Anambra.
I don't need to remind you that majority of the current political class are political offsprings of former military regimes
.
Many state governors and senators were handpicked individuals who necessarily didn't have to build up their image.

Some simply have the privilege of being from wealthy well known families.

All our democratic presidents had no grassroots buildup.
Obasanjo was from the military.
He handpicked yaradua to succeed him because of his late army brother who had died.
Jonathan was a professor who was handpicked by Alamesie in other to balance the zoning ticket on recommendation from Peter odilli. As a matter of fact, he was chosen as VP by Obasanjo because he was perceived as weaker than odilli.
Jonathan never had any strong grassroots movement even till today despite having served as president. He has been a victim of extreme luck.

I don't need to tell you about buhari. In as much as he had a fanatical following in his region, it was a following built as a result of his past military leadership.
Not all politics is local, this is Nigeria, we don't have a system yet where people can crop up genuinely. It is difficult.

simonjassy:
would you care to explain how?.
Cause the bastards looting naija are religious people oh.who have heard the tenets and practices of their religion for years.
I know very little about islam,but i can tell you that the forgiveness clause in christianity makes it easier for the christian looters to reconcile their actions with their faith i.e if they ever believed in the 1st place.

Indeed. At the bolded.
This is an excerpt from a brilliant post here.

As adults, sooner or later, you grow out of the enshrined indoctrination , especially if it starts interfering with your personal activities but you still hang around cuz of the society you are in
The religious start justifying their acts in line with their beliefs. They do things against their beliefs, but in secret, because it cannot be known to others least they chastise and despise them. So, the excuses, justifications finally become part of the lifestyle and they are meant to believe that their religious being which they worship will always forgive them if they go to him. Everything is now justified and modified to suit the ever growing adventurous mind because they are key to it all.

https://www.nairaland.com/5780709/thread-mental-emancipation-indoctrinated

diggz:
Mr critical thinker needs to learn from this.

You do know that you are very guilty of this?
Going through all your posts, a pattern of hyper aggression is visible.

You are the one that mostly instigates mudslinging with your condescending responses when ever you come across an opinion you don't like.
Use your hand and go through your posts and see how easy it is for you to start insulting people or being indirectly condescending to them.
Your Bible tells you to remove the plank in your eye before removing the speck in anothers.

diggz:
You, gensteejay and madrid5 never start....lol. You people keep pointing your fingers in the wrong direction, blaming religion and other things while leaving yourselves out of it.

Simple question: which of you 'non-religious persons' is a card carrying party member?

As someone posted earlier, at THIS POINT, going to vote for a third party candidate is a waste of time when you know the impossible odds of that candidates number making a dent not to talk of winning, however one can still enact change in other people's mind by relentlessly educating and informing others of the need for change both in person and on social media. On my watsapp, facebook, twitter and instagram page, I constantly advocate for radical change in our political and religious mindset. Overtime, more will key into this.

I have made a lot of people around me start questioning what they believe, that's effective work if you ask me.

BlueRayDick:
I grew up in Muslim-Christian home. My old man is a Muslim and my mum a Christian. Till date I've never seen my parents quarrel I don't even mean fight, I mean quarrel..They may have their differences which they sort out in the corner of their room, but we the children saw loving parents who married out of love and live their life by the happy choice they made.

I kid you Not, some inter-religious marriages are way solid than intra-religious ones. In fact, growing up in such homes makes one tolerant of other people's religious and non-religious views. I personally won't flare up and start calling people fooools and insult them as being not enlightened because of their religious views ( like some people do here on nairaland)

I highly doubt the bolded, saying that a couple who have lived together for years under one roof have NEVER QUARRELED in front of the kids at is highly doubtful.

However, I understand the point you are trying to pass across.
The truth is that such an inter-religious marriage is very rare to come across, so when it does happen, it means that the couple really love themselves to have married against all odds faced in the society, so psychologically, an us-versus-them mentality forms which strengthens and holds the bond between the couple.

Definitely any child from such a rare marriage is bound to be more open-minded towards both religion.
Because for the marriage to work, they must have compromised on aspects of their religion and most likely not forced their beliefs on the children.

Godx:
Still you haven't even said anything that comes close to what I asked. You are going round and round in circles. You said religion is the problem in Nigeria I said ok fine. Use my religion which is Christianity as a case study. "I believe in God and my beliefs are set on not stealing, lying, commiting adultery, killing, bearing false witness and loving my neighbors as I love my self. If I obey those basic principles how is my faith a problem to Nigeria?"

You are the one beating around the bush.
You are cherrypicking the best part of the Bible to suit your narrative and I am pointing out your hypocrisy in doing so?

You pointed out that your religion tells you not to commit adultery but convienetly left out FORNICATION. Do you adhere to that part of not?
Your religion supports SLAVERY, do you believe that or not.
Your religion is purely MISOGYNISTIC and believes that women are lesser than men.
Do you support that?
Your Bible admonishes violence to unbelievers, Do you support that or not.


Can you see how nobody can call himself a true believer without being divisive and malevolent towards his neighbors.

different religions set different standards for it's followers making it almost impossible to live side by side in unity.

You can't cherrypick which part of your religion you want to follow and turn a blind eye to the other.

Godx:
The answer and the reason is in the post you quoted. "loving my neighbors as I love my self"

You kinda dodged the question? Can you marry a fervent Muslim?

Godx:
The answer and the reason is in the post you quoted. "loving my neighbors as I love my self"

I have said it before that deriving your values from the Bible or any other holy book is actually dangerous because it is very much contradictory and you can justify any action you take with quotes or verses of the Holy book.

Now you are conveniently pointing out the good part that teaches you love.

What apart the part that condemns the unbelievers. Or the part that term people opposed to the religion to "die by fire".

What about the part of the hadith that encourages mass murder and promise of 72 virgins in "paradise".
In the end we gain our moral values IN SPITE of religion not because of religion.

A religious person will ALWAYS be suspicious of someone who doesn't share his same belief.
Nigerias problems hinge on both RELIGIOUS AND TRIBAL DIFFERENCES. this has been my point all along.
The two go hand in hand.

I chose to ask you about the inter religious marriage, because marriage is the ultimate social structure of unity. Any two people that can get married without any social problems indicate a healthy relationship between the two sides.

Godx:
Religion itself has no hands in any problem in Nigeria. Use me and my religion Christianity as an example. I believe in God and my beliefs are set on not stealing, lying, commiting adultery, killing, bearing false witness and loving my neighbors as I love my self. If I obey those basic principles how is my faith a problem to Nigeria?

My first post on this issue answers your question.

donjazet:
Religion encourages discrimination ,fosters disunity which hinders growth and progress. Most wars in the world are rooted in religious beliefs and tribalism.

Godx:
Religion itself has no hands in any problem in Nigeria. Use me and my religion Christianity as an example. I believe in God and my beliefs are set on not stealing, lying, commiting adultery, killing, bearing false witness and loving my neighbors as I love my self. If I obey those basic principles how is my faith a problem to Nigeria?

A simple question for you. And I hope you will be honest.

Can you a Christian see yourself marrying a FERVENT Muslim girl.
Please also attach a reason to your answer.

madrid5:
just because object A(corruption) is also a problem doesnt mean object B(religion ) is not also a problem

I used to think you were a Muslim, there's this Madrid fan always on Islamic thread defending them. I thought it was you.

popizaino:
We also have our own fair share of factor that should make us develop. Have you considered that too

Like what?

So far as we continue to be divided along religious and tribal lines, we can't move forward.

BlueRayDick:
Nigerians number one problem from day 1 has always been ethnicity/ tribal bigotry. The outcome of the first military coup in 1966 led to mistrust amongst the major tribes in the country. The Coup led to the death of politicians and military officers that are majorly from the the northern and western region......and an Eastern head of state emerged.

This is where Nigeria's problem started. The fallout of the counter Coup; the programs, Igbo people massacre, resultant civil war and matters arising after the Civil War are reasons why Nigeria is where it is today and not religion.

All these shalayes about religion preventing development are just not it. The people are divided against tribal lines. A person of Idoma origin will mostly not vote for a Tiv to represent them at the senate despite the Tiv man being "credible" like someone posited earlier. Tribalism has made us as a country underutilize our best hands and focus on the less qualified people who appeal to our tribal sentiments.

It even happens in universities where an Igbo man will not be appointed VC in a university in Yoruba land. We apply tribal sentiments to taking key decisions.

Religion may be a factor, but it is not a deciding factor as much as ethnicity/tribalism. Most Yoruba Christian landlord will prefer to rent out their house to a Yoruba Muslim than an igbo man claiming Igbo's are problematic as tenants. An Hausa man will prefer to help someone who speaks the Hausa language that won't stress him to be speaking English unnecessarily. An igbo man who is a catholic or Anglican will prefer dealing with an Igbo man who attends Sabbath( whom some claim to be occultic) than deal with Hausa man.

Lets just say Tribalism is a primary problem that has been sowed since inception of the country, religion also joined as a problem later on

While most of your postulations are accurate, there is still a point you have missed.
We are not just saying religion is a problem. But RELIGIOUS BIGOTRY is a large problem.

In Northern Nigeria, you cannot distinguish between religion and tradition because both have become intertwined to become their predominant culture.
Unlike the south where tradition and religion is still quite apart. But religion now takes forefront of people's mind.

For instance, if an igbo man marries a Yoruba girl, a few rural villagers will frown
it but will accept it, however if a Christian igbo marries an Islamic girl, it is instantly frowned upon and unacceptable by all and sundry. You become an island in your hometown.
That is religious bigotry laid bare.
Now this mentality is harboured and exhibited by our leaders since they are an extraction from the people.

nihilistjnr:
Basically you want to look for a unicorn.
It's impossible to be detribalised..That phrase makes no sense.

The average Nigerian rarely relocates from the area they were born in except to move to maybe Lagos, Abuja or PH.

Our identities are strongly tied to where we were raised.

Even if you were able to find this so called 'detribalised' don, who truly considers everybody his brother, why would electorate outside his home zone vote for him instead of someone from their village, or someone their kinsman has endorsed?

And even if thr impossible happened, how do you guarantee that another detribalised nigga will be ready to take over in 4 or 8 years time?

Another thing is, how do you guarantee that a credible candidate remains a credible leader during his tenure?

It makes no sense. You can't possibly hope to effect change by banking on the moral and personal characteristics of a 'credible candidate'

Countries that are better managed than us, aren't that way because their leaders are saints. Donald Trump and Boris Johnson in particular would be very much at home in the Nigerian political landscape.

The difference between those countries and us is institutions, not individuals. You don't get Naija style theft in Yankee politics because the system won't let you...not because Obama was the son of God.

A detribalized individual is one who is devoid of tribal or ethnic jingoism, one who does not believe that his tribe is better or superior to others.

You make no sense when you say such individuals don't exist. I already gave an example in Sowore, you don't hear him trivialising other tribes or praising the Yoruba tribe to the detriment of others.

This is why most of his supporters though young and relatively small in number span across all tribes.

They are a lot of expatriates like yourself and Ibime or Afrodoc who were born and raised in Nigeria but eventually immigrated abroad to find relative success and then come back years later to join politics.

This is exactly what Sowore did and he was able to build a following,enough for the sitting government to deem him a threat.

I agree with you that weak institutions is a part of the Nigerian problem.

But you have to ask yourself why that is? Why are our institutions very weak?

Nigeria was founded on a very weak foundation, it was built upon ethnic nationalism and that is why they are weak.

I mean Nigeria is the only country I know of where the first criteria for cabinet selection or ministerial appointment is based on state quota.
This is because there is always a deep suspicion of other tribes.

This even extends to employment.
Before employment, it is mandatory to state your tribe and religion, these two details determine your chances of employment.
That is institutionalized tribalism and religious bigotry laid bare.

In America, more than a quarter of trump's cabinet are from one state, newyork.
Some are European immigrants.
Nobody even cares where they are from so far as they are qualified.

It may not be in 4 years time. But with the growth in internet development and social media, a credible individual can build a large following over time

Victornezzar:
You start losing an argument when you bring in insults

Dude calm down

Since we all were discussing, everybody was discussing with civility until the mumu with a switched off brain decided to be vulgar. I only dished in kind.

Swissh:
First of all you said religion is a problem. They showed you a religious country thriving very well and you turned to writing Shalayes and saying it's luck. My friend sit down inside gutter. Religion or no religion does not stop a country from progressing. Blame your corrupt leaders and not Religion.

Your idiocy and craziness on this forum is well documented.
It's a very common knowledge here that you lack adequate comprehension skills.
Think well before entering a discourse, give your slow brain time to process information before exposing your foolishness publicly.

Melvyn11:
Saudi Arabia/ UAE is predominantly a Muslim state and they are prospering. When you compare groups of people throughout history, the groups that practice a religion are more likely to survive and prosper than those groups that don’t practice a religion. I can’t remember the exact study, but it was cited in Jonathan Haidt’s The Righteous Mind. Religion may have its faults but it unites people and helps them grow.

I have already stated the factors behind the success of Saudi Arabia and the UAE.

As for the American success, it helps to have one major religion.
But apart from that, America was formed because they had a common enemy (British Empire) and moreso they recognized the danger of religion in leadership and insisted on a total separation of the church and state. Hence no religious zealot would be elected, this was why there was no catholic who became a president for up to 200 years.

Ibime:
Saudi prosperity is just due to the fortune of sitting on oil reserves, not due to anything else. Infact their leaders are very wicked, wasteful and inhumane.

UAE leaders are similarly wicked although they applied some brain to what to do with their oil wealth to attract investment.

I was about typing exactly same until I saw yours.

Saudi Arabia and the UAE success are as a result of factors that are unique to them and very lucky for them.

Their main sources of wealth are oil and tourism.

This very SMALL population have the world's largest reserves of crude oil in the world.

Also the county is placed in such an advantegous position on the globe such that all flights going to Asia from Europe and America stopped in their airports to refuel hence growing their tourism.
They built one of the largest airports in the world and they were having millions of tourists coming to their countries.

Thirdly, they are the headquarters of the largest religion on earth. Every muslim around the globe hopes to go there every year.
Imagine any small country having all these advantages and tell me they won't prosper.

They have excess wealth for a relatively small population.

Why do you think biafran agitators look towards them? Because of the belief(arguably misguided) that a smaller population having large resources Is a recipe for wealth and success.

diggz:
Hehehehe.....


Over 70% of Nigerian youths don't belong to any party. But you want to have a credible candidate to stand behind....una never start

The fact that many Nigerians are apolitical or have an apathy towards voting is no hidden knowledge. We have a situation whereby just 20 million out of 200 million people voted.

The reasons for this are not farfetched either, one, we still have a very young democracy, a large number of the entire population from 30 years and above were used to military dictatorial regimes or faked democratic regimes.

2.very High illiteracy and poverty run rampant all across the country, very few of the larger populace have access to correct information hence many fall away to propaganda from the elite and ruling class.

However that can change as more people become better informed with the continuous technological developments.

nihilistjnr:
What does credible candidate mean? How do you define credibility?

Credibility simply means being trusted and believed in.
I have said someone like Sowore. I used to believe he was unbiased but recent discoveries indicate he was self absorbed.

We have to look out for an individual who is a detribalized self made entrepreneur, who isn't corrupted or affiliated with corrupt individuals. Someone who is genuinely patriotic.

nihilistjnr:
How do you propose we do that?

By Standing behind a credible candidate who is not a member of the current political class.
Someone in the mould of Sowore but with lesser baggage.

diggz:
So, your solution is for Nigerians to protest and behead their leaders. Do you have any other solution you'd like to add?

Names of these countries...Thank you.

Not as extreme as beheading, but we have to start being unified in our support towards a third party candidate at all levels of government.

We can't continue to voice support towards any of the current ruling class because they are one and the same.

During the last BREXIT crises in UK, a new party was formed and in the last election, that party won lots of seat.
We can take a leaf out of that and be united in our actions of clearing out the old political class and the only way this can be feasible is if we do away with religious bigotry and tribal jingoism.

diggz:
Critical thinking...critical thinking...oya use your critical thinking proffer solutions apart from abandon religion...no way

Nigeria has had 3 prominent problems since the inception of the country.
Religious bigotry, tribalism and high illiteracy.

Of the 3 major problems, religion is the key problem because it prohibits peaceful coexistence. A religious mind will always be judgemental and suspicious towards other different religions or nonreligious people. Because for the religion to survive and thrive, it has to perceive others as threat.

Religion is soo polarising and divisive that it can hardly ever be united itself. That's why you have a situation where a Catholic will despise Pentecostal churches and the Pentecostal churches will even despise and distrust themselves.

If we somehow eradicate religion and tribalism from our country, every other thing will fall into place.

In advanced countries where those things are minimal, you see progress and unity.

In America for instance, you have situations where an atheist man(Obama) born and raised in Hawaii can become a senator of Illinois, and a man born in newyork can become a senator of Vermont. Even an athestic immigrant from another country all together becomes a governor of the second richest American state California.
Can you imagine that happening in Nigeria?
The moment we can begin to think beyond our religious and tribal difference or eradicate them permanently, we will move forward together.

We have to remove religion from all learning institutions. That will be a good first step.

odizeey:
India and China are more religious than us.

The Chinese government have been cracking down on religion for decades.
So I don't know what you mean when you say they are more religious than us.

As for India, they have been at loggerheads with Pakistan for decades now purely on religious grounds. The two countries are divided purely on the basis of religion.
I affirm my earlier stance that religion is at the basis of mankind's problems and deaths.

Victornezzar:
So religion is the hindrance to development and growth in our land??

Mister go and hold your government

Religion encourages discrimination ,fosters disunity which hinders growth and progress. Most wars in the world are rooted in religious beliefs and tribalism.

gensteejay:
Nice one. It's threads like this we need to emancipate our people from mental slavery (religion) and neocolonialism, to bring development and growth to our lands.

Kudos.

Yea. It was quite deep. The writer is clearly well learned and knows his stuff. I wish lots of people will read that brilliant write-up.

Very nice educative thread below.

https://www.nairaland.com/5780709/thread-mental-emancipation-indoctrinated

seankafor:
Am highly amazed the kinda maturity exhibited on this thread..

Yall are the GOATS

You are a goat. You have previously defended cybercrime, now you are defending cultism, are you sure you are normal?

Whitelotus, you are doing a great job, it is not easy going against the herd mentality rampant on this forum.
Just know that there are a lot of silent members here who follow and understand you.
In the end, you will have enlightened a lot of people.
Good job.

^^^ I agree.
Even though I don't buy into the Bill Gates conspiracy theories, I don't think you should be forced to be vaccinated. It should be of an individuals volition to be vaccinated or not. Making it mandatory will only fuel the negative rumours.

Odunharry:
Here Don turn United thread

How?

raumdeuter:
A strong opponent like who?

If Mike Bloomberg had been better prepared, he could have taken down trump.
The democrats unfortunately are lacking a charismatic leader right now.
But still at this point, Americans are just feeling anyone but trump is okay.