₦airaland Forum

Ibime:
You can keep rambling while Jogginghoe serves you L on the pitch as a Chelsea fan

I gave you the context of some of those stats, do with it what you will.

I simply came to show you how to understand stats from 15 years of viewing stats, not to participate in
a dïck waving competition.

Next game Jogginghoe point to someone 3 yards away from him that he can't close down like he did against Brighton, you will explain how the top runner in Euros can't do a simple job.

His numbers show he isn't.

My useless attackers and blunt midfielders are. We need goalscoring outlets. From willian to giroud to morata to higuain to Abraham to Werner to havertz, ziyech, pulisic. None capable of giving us 20 goals a season. All as blunt as a cutlass.

You can't blame the DM for attackers not scoring enough goals. Do you know that in the last 6 seasons, we have been the lowest goal scoring team in the top3? Even when we won the league?

GOALS! GOALS! GOALS! are our major problems. We need clinical attackers and our own kdb or Pogba who would add their own goals\assists from midfield.

Ibime:
You can only deceive those with poor interpretation of stats with the above.

Jogginghoe played by far the most minutes and made half his interceptions at the Euros against Spain parking bus. These are purely curcumstantial and based on team low-block set-up which encourages plenty of interceptions for the DM. It does not solve the main criticism of which is inability to be defensively solid when Chelsea are playing higher up the pitch.

Secondly running stats are not about the distance covered but the speed at which they are covered. Players like Jorginho and Fabregas jogged around in a circle in order to create angles for the defence to pass the ball, and Fabregas always topped the running stats, it does not make their running effective or make them defensively solid when taken in isolation without looking at what type of running they do (sprints, jogs etc). Those who close the gaps at speed like Kante, Essien and co hardly figure at the top of the km/game stats. In addition, Jogginghoe played the most minutes by far in the Euros having played every minute of every game including 3 extra times, and in the position that covers the most Km (DM) so covering the most kilometers is to be expected. It would be more surprising if he did not. Nobody with their brain screwed on will watch Jogginghoe pointing at other players to come and cover a 5 yard gap any other DM should be closing and say his running stats is evidence of him being effective at closing spaces.
Like I always say, you are a newbie in interpreting football stats. These things can only impress someone who doesn't understand the context of football stats and how to apply them.

And just like that, bam!! He's sucked into it again. Ibime how can you not see how embarrassing this has become for you. Just chop your L in peace and rest. This player has been dashing you LLLLL's for a year now, you just no gree collect.

You are now sounding as illogical as Ronaldo haters who would say Ronaldo's goalscoring numbers doesn't mean much because most of them are tap-ins and penalties or say he's not just good at anything else on the pitch or not good at free kicks or some other ridiculous things just to denigrate him.

Or Messi haters who for long said Barca's system and players around him made him better or played for him hence his failure with national team.
Haters would always find a way to explain away the wonderful individual stats and record of a player.

How do we know players are great? Is it not by their individual stats?

Jorginho has now garnered so much individual stats and here you are trying to disassemble each of them one by one just to fit your agenda.

Jorginho set the record for the most interceptions EVER in the Euros. LET THAT SINK IN. a personal ALL TIME RECORD for a prestigious competition.

Jorginho set passing records in TWO different TOP leagues.
Jorginho topped distance covered in two different competitions which he won.
Jorginho topped successful tackles in two different competitions which he won.
Jorginho made the highest ball recoveries in two different competitions which he won.

This is who you called a passenger ooo. This is who you said was "carried" to these championships.
What would hate not do to a man's heart?
The footballing world has acknowledge this gem of a player. But let's leave it to Ibime to keep hating irrationally.
You can keep on rambling on like a hater trying to explain away all these personal records or you can just humbly accept your LLL. Oga LLLlibime.

Izzuo, are you seeing the cultural war that has been brewing on Twitter since yesterday because someone suggested soludo nominates nwanyi ocha as a commissioner?

What's your take on the issue. Is it okay to hire a foreigner as a commissioner for a state? Do you think she is qualified for this?

https://twitter.com/nwanyi_ocha?t=wJBMnTJZix0Z0fHL8uK0_g&s=09

This our attackers no go kill person.

FBS:
Thanks all.

Life is so unpredictable. Appreciate it and your loved ones always. Everyday is a present.

Happy birthday and sorry for your loss. Try to cheer up as much as you can.

BlueMann:
I'd always felt that the "4000 passes, no assist" criticism of Jorginho was harsh. At the end of the day, an assist, no matter how sublime, depends on the finishing touch of the person at the end of it, and Jorginho was very unlucky in this regard.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfyjSzysoH0

[img]https:///media/1-22-2022/eDIOlC.gif[/img]

Bro this video was beautiful to watch.
I say it again, put jorginho in a world class team with deadly attackers and defenders and watch us gloat over having this player.

He would definitely have more assists than any DM in the game currently.
I'm wondering how I got to really like this player. Believe you me, I rarely fan players since I became a football fan. Not hazard, not Costa or fabregas etc. Since lampard and Drogba.
I think I've been boxed in because some sheeple here decided not to think for themselves and only follow their shepherd in his irascible opinion of this particular player. His obsessive hate over this fine player. Hate that comes from stubbornness never to evolve from a position taken earlier.

Never ceding ground when he's clearly in the wrong.
Nevermind, I will guide him back to the light. This aimless scapegoating has to stop.

timbros:
Why? Don't you want to take up my own challenge?

I challenge you to bring any individual award Carrick won and I will give you Jorginho's two.

Since you don't know mates in football.

The jorginho hater is on the sprawl again. Once jorginho's name is mentioned, he springs to his keyboard immediately to tarnish him any which way. But I believe he will eventually be cured of this irascible obsessive hate the same way havertz10 hatred for mount has subsided.

The only reason there will still be doubters over jorginho is simply because he didn't play for a super club at their peak. Clubs like Madrid, Bayern, Barca etc. But even at that, it's wonderful that the elite footballing world has paid this player his dues, no matter how late it he is.

Individually, this player has tremendous personal records. Setting the overall passing records in 2 different leagues and many numerous passing records in several games individually.

This player has even had to adapt to add core defensive aspects to his game and become the complete all rounder DM. Jorginho outran every single player at the Euros.

Jorginho also set the record for the highest interceptions in the euro tournament.
Also being the best at various defensive metrics on the way to leading his team to the biggest trophies in football.

I repeat, if this player was at a top club surrounded by the best players too in their positions complementing him, he would be rated much much higher than he already is. More clinical attackers, better defenders etc. You would see him flourish.

Only irascible haters would continue to blemish this player's individual abilities and not acknowledge good when it's due.
His success would only continue to shame them.

Amoto94:
Chelsea club officials 'like' Thomas Tuchel's public persona and his handling of dressing-room egos.

via
@MailSport

Yeah, I agree. Tuchel has been excellent in that regard so far.

How do fifa and pes calculate their player ratings??
Because what I'm seeing here is really astonishing.
Neither kante or jorginho are physical. Kante uses good close ball control to evade physical challenges while jorginho uses passes to do the same.
Neither of them have good shooting techniques or pace, so these numbers are quite surprising.
I thought they use stats to measure these things.
Neither are good dribblers too, so where is all these from?

Cc nihilist, timbros, airmark etc.

Jorginho just can't stop winning.. He's surely tired of so much winning, this year. Dishing it hot hot to his spoilt belle's.

Insightful article by matt law.

A001:
Jorginho doesn't deserve a place in that midfield. Abeg, just rest with this your overhyping of the Italian. He's good, but not great as you say.

The Jorginho's issue is even becoming belabored and now looks insipid.

Go and remove him na.

Highest ranked player cards for FIFA.
Any disagreements? Ibime not for you.
Apart from marquinous. I think this team is lit.
That midfield is fire. Jorginho kante kdb. I didn't know hakimi was the best right back in the game.

lordfalcao:
why are you covering Jorginho 92 percent pass completion to drive your agenda

That nigha is now highly agenda driven. As raumdeuter predicted, he would ALWAYS find a way to link it back to jorginho.

You know you hate someone when you can't acknowledge anything good about that person.
Your mind keeps conjuring up the worst about the person.
It's an obsession. One that can only choke the hater because you are completely powerless over the situation.

I'm trying to imagine his feeling on seeing jorginho included in the FIFPRO TOTY. Jorginho keeps piling on the individual awards and accolades and his hater can only Keep sulking and wailing away. Tueh.

Ibime:
Sarris stay was the epitome of playing Jogginghoes way and he was bullied all over the park. We finished on 72 points and only qualified for top4 in the penultimate game. Along the way, we saw many disgraces and our midfield overrun in 6-0, 4-0 scorelines etc that told any serious Chelsea fan that they can never bet on a league challenge or a competitive attacking midfield with Jogginghoe

Was kloop a failure last season with 67 points? 2016 {7th} and 2017??
Was kloop a failure in these seasons?

BikeMan:
Unlike Tuchel, Sarri's tactics is shit and he's not flexible. There was no point giving him time plus he willingly left the club for Juventus.

I am pointing out that sarri's stay with us was not a disaster as Ibime would like us to believe.

We went on a long unbeaten run. We reached 2 cup finals and we finished 3rd which is the highest position and points we've ever finished since we last won the league. Much better than Guardiola and kloop did in their first full seasons. We didn't fail.

Jorginho is a very good DM for any good attacking team. Don't forget that Sarri has also given us our best premier league finish for the past 5 years.
Sarri and tuchel are philosophical managers that need time to shape their teams in their image.

Sarri didn't fail woefully. He took us to 2 finals and finished third in the league. That's not failure. We just didn't have the patience. He did better than kloop and Guardiola did in their first season.

Ibime:
Why will your attackers succeed when the manager is preoccupied with packing the defence due to lack of a robust DM.
Napoli strikers rated best in the league
Napoli defenders rated best in the league.
Tell me where Napoli fell short.

Your 91 points in farmers league means nothing in EPL. A farmer's league where their league winners can't come out of UCL group stage, a farmer's league where Napoli couldn't come out of UCL group stage, getting bundled out by Shakhtar Donetsk. A farmers league where AC Milan and Inter were no better than Everton at that point.
Maybe if Napoli had a better DM, they would have done better.
Tell me a time when Jogginghoe has been consistently successful at Chelsea without playing defensive football.

You really shouldn't be offended if I'm calling you a bullshite factory because I'm truly overwhelmed with your numerous falsehoods.
You would say just about anything to make jorginho look bad.

First you said Napoli's attack and defence were rated while the midfield wasn't Ibime fear God na. Did the coach himself not mark jorginho out as the most essential player to his system? Did this coach who built his own attacking system not drag jorginho away from mancity to bring him with him to Chelsea??
Did this jorginho not set multiple individual passing records in a league of over a century??
Look at the picture below for reference.

You would say just about anything to downgrade this player. Sarri saw jorginho as the most essential player to his team but Ibime would tell us that that's not the case.

Secondly, I don't understand your effort to downgrade Napoli because of the league. Juventus and napoli were very strong teams at that point. I even remember Roma beating Barca to the semis while juve got to the final twice.
The top 6 teams of the top 4 leagues usually have strong talented individuals.

That Napoli team produced cavani, higuain, mertens, insigne, koulibaly, jorginho, Allan etc.

These are wonderful players.
You would say just anything to downgrade this player. So an Italian team that produced finalist twice and multiple semifinal appearances is too weak? Tell me the difference between Norwich and spezia or Burnley and Crotone. Would someone say the EPL is shite because Liverpool and mancity are now consistently getting 98 points??

Skimpledawg:
Lol egbon don jump from Sokoto now now reach Abia state.

A fan here wished JM wins against us and most of us here called him out.
What's wrong in calling out Popi too?

Who was this fan?

Ibime:
You are pained. Do me a favour. Name me a period where Chelsea successfully played in an attacking set-up with Jogginghoe. Facts are stubborn. I will wait.

Tell me any Chelsea striker that has delivered 30goals and assists in the last 4 years.
Why are you blaming Chelsea's woes on just one player?
Jorginho's role in the team is to ensure we dominate and control the game. He is not there to score goals. Just control the midfield and dictate play efficiently.
This he has usually done well as his passing records over the years show.

Who doesn't know that we've struggled because of the impotence of our attackers.
All our attackers have been struggling massively.

Of course the hate shines through. At this point you should be called the bullshit_ factory.
You say jorginho cannot succeed in an attacking team, Someone who was in an ultra-attacking team that accumulated 91 points in the league. It's pointed out to you, you say it's because of others around him but in Chelsea that have been unstable previously, it's wholly because of jorginho.

BULLSHIT FACTORY. you keep manufacturing bullshite steadily.

It's only you that will call busquet, rodri, jorginho, pirlo "escorts" despite being extremely successful in their teams. in the same vein you want horjtout, a player who is worse than a failure in his team.

As I've said since, you can only Keep hating this player while his star keeps shining bright.

European player of the year.
3rd best balondor player.
UEFA team of the year.
FIFPRO team of the year.
Euros team of the year.
Highly recommended by the elite coaches in the game.
Is there any other player on those lists you think are useless?? Point out one player in these lists you think is useless in football.
Point out any other 3rd placed balondor player you think was useless in football.

Only a bullshite manufacturer would think this player is useless.

Lastly, it's important that all of us put things in perspective and realize that we are not actually in crisis. Mancity have just set the bar so high. Imagine winning 12 games in a row for 3 good season when the quality of the league is actually much higher than before. before Guardiola,how many teams finished above 90 points? Just 5 times in the history of the league, now it has been done 6 times in the last 6 years. It's not sustainable. The standard is just ridiculous. We are on track to finish above 80 points and that is actually good progress.

Our squad reaching multiple cup finals in the last few years show that we actually have a good squad.we just need a little fine tuning.
A creative central midfielder. A world-class defender and more time with tuchel.

We just need to keep the faith.

Ibime:
Some people are wired to celebrate glory moments and some are wired to remember every detail. A Liverpool team that achieved 97 and 99 points in consecutive seasons while reaching two UCL finals playing attacking football far outmatches a Chelsea team that failed to make top four under Conte, only made top four in the penultimate game under Sarri and the final game under Lampard, and only made top four in the final 45 minutes of last season thanks to Gareth Bales heroics at Leicester. Khaki no be leather. League tables don't lie

Ibime, my argument is that we need time and a little fine tuning to our squad. Liverpool gave kloop ample time even after he had finished 7th in his 1st, half season. And finished 4th with Salah and mane in his 1st full season. Or Guardiola who also finished trophyless and 4th in his first full season. Our squad needs more time to adapt to Tuchel's method.

Only Kante walks into Liverpool 11 with no debate. VVD, Robertson, Fabinho, Salah and Mane walk into Chelsea 11 with no debate. The difference to their alternatives isn't even close.

Alison vs Mendy, Rudiger vs Matip, Trent vs James, Lukaku vs Jota is a preference choice with little margin either way.

Our attackers are not the best but our system doesn't maximise attackers, it maximises defenders and makes them look better than they are. When you take one man from the attacking zone and put him in the defensive zone, it tilts in favour of the defenders. That's why Rudiger is looking at Madrid contract when he should be looking at Roma, and Chris is looking at Bayern when he should be looking at Southampton, meanwhile our attackers went from grace to grass because their positions are not priotised. It's always hustling for counterattack with them rather than exchanging passes with an extra man. I don't think Abraham can get £34m move to Roma, playing under this system. Maybe we will be looking for where to loan him now or collect £10m for him

All these players had to grow and develop better.
Who were mane, Salah, Arnold, Robertson before they came to Liverpool??
Players are constantly evolving and developing better if given time and played in a good system.
Liverpool gave kloop trust and time and he assembled a good squad. Our squad was recently reassembled by different coaches. We have some system players and some dynamic players, that doesn't mean they wouldn't all adapt to Tuchel's philosophy, given time.

The number one reason for this (though not the only) and I will keep repeating myself, is lack of an adequate DM that will allow us play without community defence. Reason some of us focus on Jogginghoe is because his effect is structural. Kovacic is not structural, he is robust enough to play any system as a CM. We are not going anywhere consistently until we have a DM that will allow us to play on the front foot successfully. I have seen this repeatedly in Chelsea right from the Mikel days. Until we have that midfield that allows us to take more risk, we will keep telling ourselves stories. If we attempt to play on the front foot with our current DM, we will start counting goals he caused on a match-by-match basis like his biggest fan below. This is not a theory but a reality we saw play out since 2018 till the arrival of TT. Every time we tried an attacking set-up, we were ruined at the back by the inadequacy of our DM. I am a firm believer that the robustness of a team to adapt to any set-up depends on the robustness of the DM

No matter how many times you continue to repeat this, it doesn't make it true.

Jorginho is a very fine DM. As many can see, he is even adapting his game better. It's clear tuchel has asked him to be more direct hence pass lesser in games than he used to.

Rodri who tagged an "escort" excelling in Guardiola's system leaves me in no doubt that jorginho would be 10 times better.
In kante and jorginho we have 2 of the finest DM's in the game. Don't forget that even kante evolved better under Sarri. We didn't know kante for his abilities ON the ball but OFF the ball. How he runs tirelessly chasing balls and opponents, The sprints, the recoveries, the tackles, how he protects his defense. It was under Sarri he evolved to show forward runs and drives.
Likewise jorginho is also evolving, improving in his tackles, recoveries, sprints etc not just possession recycling.
I definitely do not think hojberg is the answer you're looking for. He's of much lower quality than kante and jorgs.
The Henderson under Brendan Rodgers at Liverpool is not the same Henderson under kloop. He has developed and adapted better. All these took a little bit of time.

If our attackers became more consistent and scored more, we would be world beaters. We have the players to play different systems. What we need is time.

Again, we need time to better adapt Tuchel's philosophy.
We need a creative goal scoring central midfielder like debruyne. Kovacic is good in other areas but lacking in this as a central midfielder. Our midfield is seriously lacking in creativity.
We need new center backs.

Our attackers need to start understanding themselves better.
On an individual level, we have good attackers.

They are just not consistent enough. Havertz, mount, odoi, pulisic, ziyech. Good wingers, shambolic output. Attack is our biggest headache

When Liverpool signed mane and Salah, who knew they would turn out to be this deadly? With time they were able to understand themselves better in kloops system. And this took more than one year.
And these players have been extremely reliable. Rarely being unavailable for long periods of time.

Do you think mancity would be the same if Kyle walker and cancelo both go on long term injuries and have to rely on zinchenko week in week out. It won't show??

Our 1st 10 games of this season showed this squad is capable of challenging for the league.
There have been soooo many interruptions for a lot of player that hinders team cohesion.

Ibime, The quality of our squad is not much different from that of Liverpool and mancity.
Our major problems are our misfiring attackers and unavailability of key players for large periods of time which in turn leads to a lack of cohesion among the playing team.

Our substitute bench is one of the strongest.
James has developed into one of the best right back and right wing back, likewise chillwell. Alonso and azpi normally should be one of the best substitutes for this position.
Thiago Silva and rudiger are world class defenders with azpi, Christensen and chalobah proving to be also be very good center backs.
We have the one the best midfield pairing in football right now in kante, jorginho and kovacic with able deputies in RLC and Barkley.

Our failing attack is where there is much concern.
Lukaku is a very good striker, maybe a system player but his attacking records are no fluke. This guy has more than 400 goals and assists.

We know pulisic is a very good winger, we've seen him play.. Ziyech too was metronomic for ajax.
Mount, havertz, odoi are just too damn inconsistent.

Fun fact, we are not doing too badly this season.
Mancity and Liverpool have set such an astronomical standard that getting below 90 points now seem like a failure. Imagine winning 30 games every season. This was unheard of in England before. Not even the arsenal invincibles.

I think what we need is at least one more world-class proven quality center back, a goal scoring midfielder and time to let our attackers click together.

It can be argued that we have an even better squad than Liverpool and they're doing so well.

We need TIME.

Amoto94:
Grammar no mean success. That you're capable of typing long post doesn't make you intelligent than him I'm sure he will roast you in French if he's to type in that language, your inferiority complex disguised with a cloak of intellectualism is nauseating to say the least.
You are quick to denigrate people who don't agree with your opinion and claim victim when the person hits you hard in return, you need to work on yourself else you risk alienating people who could be of help to you. You are a bitter person

This jihadist that is always finding my mouth. Leave me kwanu. If you spent the amount of time you use defending hypocrites to attack your fellow jihadists, this place would be a much better place.

I see how You've opened lots of thread here defending your fellow terrorists and pedophiles who marry and rape young girls and your people that born and throway, almajiris.
My friend don't worry about my life, all's good for me, worry about your sick mentality that defends pedophiles and terrorists in the name of religion.
Your type is the worst, the type that appears to be more educated than your average people but ends up being worst than them. Abeg free me.

The jorginho debate will never end.
Football is opinionated afterall. It's always very hard to measure the impact of one player in a team sports, especially defenders and midfielders. Hence the "agendas" everywhere. Lots of different opinions about a player.

While a few people will choose to believe jorginho "hides" or "escorts", whatever that means, a vast majority believe that this is an intelligent player who knows how to read the game and find spaces by passing and close control of the ball, How to evade pressure and also control and dictate the tempo of a game. Setting personal records in the game.

It's only time that ends up judging a player better.

One thing is certain, if jorginho left Chelsea at the end of this season. He will be fondly remembered as our own vice captain who also played his role in leading us to numerous domestic and European cups while also winning the European best player award while with us and making the top 3 balondor list.

He will be remembered very fondly 10 years from now.
Before that we can only hope to continue to see more from him.

hensben:
Shut up and learn, he is saying the truth. You don’t know football. You think this is an agenda against Lukaku. Smh.

Says the one that can't even speak coherently. Your opinions here are the least weighted because it's like you just type the first thing that comes to the hens brain without double checking.

Ibime:
Rubbish.

You can spin any story you want, it won't justify your foolishness to go bet on Chelsea to win at the Etihad.

We did not lose the league yesterday but against several other teams including Brighton two weeks ago where Jogginghoe was bullied all over the pitch by Bissouma.

I spoke extensively yesterday about Kovacic passing yesterday in comparison to Jogginghoe showing Kovacic doing much better than Jogginghoe against the same opposition. It's a shame when we start comparing an escort who is only in the team for his passing to hardworkers like Kova who do a lot more besides passing, and still beast him in passing. When your playmaker hides on the pitch and can't beat yeomen in passing, what is he on the pitch for? Did we pay him to pad passing stats against Crotone and Newcastle who we would beat without him?

If you have any further questions about why Jogginghoe was benched yesterday, direct them to TT. I only came to state that TT did not trust him. Focus on that.

I haven't had the time to be online since I saw this.

First of all, I don't know why you keep wailing over my own loss. Surely you're not daft to think I didn't know mancity have a stronger chance of winning Chelsea. It was an emotional bet because I support Chelsea. We always start as underdogs against mancity but our past 5 managers have consistently beaten mancity with those odds. Infact we thrive as underdogs.
Mourinho won mancity at their home.
Conte won mancity home and away.
Sarri won mancity at home.
Lampard won mancity.
Tuchel won mancity multiple times.
We have beaten mancity more than any other team in the last 10 years. We are one of the very few teams to ever outpossess a Guardiola team that obsesses over possession. I bet that money which is like my weekly subscription money in HOPE of us pulling another upset like we do. I don't know why you keep taking Panadol over someone else's headache and crying more than the bereaved.

Secondly, I pity for the fools that take you serious sha. People who don't know that once you're stubborn about an issue, no matter how foolish the opinion is, you will never change it

Afterall, it's the same you that calls iniesta a passenger. Or Drogba a flop. It's the same you that will spite jorginho, a player who has won both team and individual accolades, becoming the third best player in the world. It is only you who delusionally feels he knows better than the footballing world.

You rate a failure like horjberg that has exposed his defenders to conceding 70 goals last season, that has achieved nothing in football over quality DM's like jorginho and rodri who have played their parts in making their teams defensively solid.

You knew that mancity were an almost unbeatable team and surrendered before the match but the same you would keep highlighting jorginho's error against mancity while conveniently creating excuses for kante and kovacic who also failed woefully.
Why are you silent on kante who was our sitting DM?
Your hypocrisy stinks. As I said earlier, it's the fools who take you serious who have much to lose sha.

What do you guys make of this opinion?
Nateevs, airmark etc