₦airaland Forum

shadeyinka:
Bro! How come now? I looks like I met you in your grouchy mood. LOL

I agree sometimes one is sentimental about issues and its natural. But you too were emotional about this your response. You didn't address any of the issues raised. Stylishly, I showed that I understood your position BUT disagreed with the usage of the phase "Natural Evil".

I suggested that If Natural Evil must exist, then there should also exist what I described as " Artificial Evil" with examples.

Its at least comforting that you understand( but disagree with) my view about the fact that Mans fall is the cause of Natural Disasters. Unfortunately, this view is not provable outside the scripture so, you just have to accept the Theistic position of course without agreeing with it.


Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

1Co 15:21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

This world is controlled by a Force of Cause and Effect! Adam was warned and unfortunately he discarded the warning NOW the perfect gift he was given got infected with a Trojan resulting into pain, discomfort and death.


The only way in which God can be blamed is if:
-The manufacturer of the car that killed Princess Diana can be sued to court.
-The manufacturer of the lost Malaysian Airline would be prosecuted
-The builder of the Chernobyl reactor prosecuted.

There offence would be simply: why did you build/invent your technology?

I can't defend God! I can't be His Lawer or Advocate! I am too short for that!

I agree, maybe i was a bit too emotional, because i ddnt explain my stance well.

Alright, first, i know you dont accept the term Natural evil, but it is a term that has been used for centuries dating back to socrates. It was not like asif atheists just redefined evil to suit their bashing of God.

Then, you talked about artificial evil, while it is allowed to include your definition, you have to be consistent.
I think a differentiation of Natural disasters and accidents is keen, i wont do that because i am sure you know much to well about it, but if I understand you correctly, you are trying to equate Natural disasters to accidents which is not necessarily the case.

God created Nature, now since he is perfect, nature should be perfect, but as we can see, its not, disasters happen, now lets examine it, if there was a flaw in Gods design, then he could easily remodify it to correct the mistakes, the fact that these disasters happen frequently shows he is either incapable of repairing it, or he is purposely allowing it to happen.

Now, to your answer which you likened the disasters to a virus in my opinion is not an accurate description of the issue. You are assuming that whoever is causing the disasters(writing the virus) is as knowledgeable as God since this individual can edit and manipulate the workings of God.

I see lot of flaws in that logic, because if the devil could edit the universe now, it means he could have done so even if man did not fall, and that would say alot about the creator.

Now, after mans fall, God cursed man to work before he eats and painful child birth for the woman, but i doubt i read anything about natural disasters, so if that wasnt part of the curse, and he is allowing it to happen, then obviously thats a moral evil dont you think?

So no matter the way you look at it, either God doesnt know how to fix it or he is allowing it to happen.

If the former is the case, then he is not as powerful as theists make him sound and if he allows it to continue then its either he is sadistic and evil or just plainly doesnt care about us either ways why call him God?

Pidggin:
I live somewhere in the solar system dear

Lol, thats superb...pick a place and time, i want to pick that funny brain of yours...

Bro, i know you are trying to be helpful, both a theist who has his or her mind made up on evolution wont be swayed by this. The best is to let them wallow in their ignorance.

Pidggin:
See how devil has totally confused some people

How can nothing reasonable create something reasonable. Then we should have a world made of unreasonable matter but we have otherwise

Even if we are to believe nothing created something then something developed life, what is the need of spirituality?

How did reasoning and spirituality enter this world, according to athiesm?

Lol, i like you,you are reall funny, i would love for us to go on a date...

shadeyinka:
I read up all the links and honestly, I wasn't impressed because except for the last link were written from an Atheistic point of view. Someone somewhere has redefined evil as either
1. Moral or
2. Natural
And the last link even though from Theistic point of view did not analyse the word Natural Evil before jumping at an explanation.

To help Atheists, let me suggest a third alternative
3. Artificial Evil.
- the engines of an aircraft packed up mid-air for no reason.
- my parachute tore mid-air at a weak seam.
- a guy slipped in the Lab and conc HCl bottle fell and broke over a cute classmate
-cooking gas explodes because the hose is leaking

I agree, you didn't invent the term BUT it is wrong.
Check your dictionary: usually not biased when it comes to religious affairs they say something else.

Check! The Proponents of Natural Evil after defining it goes to the next level to ask the question: "If God is good, why does He allow Evil?".

If I eat a chicken, is that evil?
If a lion ate a goat, is that evil?
Now if a lion eat me, why would it be evil? (Natural Evil)
Now, If I ate another man, that will be evil! Wouldn't it?

I am sure you know that not everything on the internet is correct.


Now, your question even though I have answered it before: " Why would a good God allow what you defined as natural evil?"




-The Earth is like a computer gift to man.
-The manufacturer gave the manufacturers instruction on how it should be used.
- Man violated the rule and his computer began to malfunction

Now, the "wise guys" now thoughtfully came to a wonderful conclusion:
How can the Almighty "Toshiba Company" make a Faulty (Evil) Computer?

If man commits mass murder: it is Gods Fault
If gorilla mauls girl: it is Gods fault
If plane crashes: it is Gods fault

Can't you see that another code is running in parallel to the operations of the earth? Theists have always blamed satan as the source of the Trojan disturbing mankind.

On a more spiritual and lighter note:
Just as Jesus commanded the sea storm to be quiet, I believe that Adam also had that kind of capacity to bend nature to his will.

Mar 4:39 And he arose, and rebuked the wind, and said unto the sea, Peace, be still. And the wind ceased, and there was a great calm.

I think you are trying to deflect the question, everytime its brought, you say its not evil, and so on. Now i showed you links where this term has been defined both in philosophy and theology but you say its wrong?

Are we getting sentimental?

I wasnt pushing for the arguments in those links, i just wanted to prove to you that there is such a thing has Natural evil in philosophy, something you have said doesn't exist since the start of this thread.

Natural evil is the kind of sufferring in which no non-divine agent can be blamed.

A boy has an accident...thats not natural evil

Tsunami destroys lives and properties in the thousands in china...that is natural evil.

There is obviously no one to blame except a divine agent that controls the weather.

Now you want to add a new definition just because you dont think its right?, really?

You want to blame natural evil on mans fall, but that would not work, mans fall is not enough to cause the natural disasters, and even if it did, then isnt God just a sadist because life is already hard on its own, why is God allowing natural evil to just kill people in the thousands for no apparent reason?

Look bro, i understand perfectly, theists tend to have this belief so held strongly that when shown otherwise they want to defend it to their last breath, its why changing their mind about God is futile, but you have to be objective here and put aside your feelings.

There is something called Natural evil and it has bothered both philosophers and theologians for centuries, and if you fail to acknowledge that and try to give a solution and even the origin(as the op requested) of this kind of evil, i am sorry to say but you are being sentimental and dogmatic.

shadeyinka:
I think you are redefining the term evil to accommodate you line of thought. Let me give you some vivid examples and then check whether they can be called evil
-I fell from the top of a 12 storey building and died:
-My hand accidentally entered the blade cage of a grass mower and my hands were torn to shreds.
-The gas tank of a car exploded killing a newly born baby and her mom.
-A ten year old and his 4 year old brother drowned in the swimming pool
Etc etc

You can see that bad things do happen but we cannot label them as evil unless is was deliberately orchestrated by a person.

In all cases above, the human feeling is touched negatively in an unwanted manner but we don't label them as evil.

The second is your bolded number 2.
There is the law of action and reaction and everything we do has a consequence that resonates down to our unborn generation.

Christian theists have always said that the God of Love gave Man a Perfect world (with an insrltuction to live with). Man broke the instruction and a "malevolent code" began to operate in the world to destroy " the perfect world".

Why doesn't God "reset" the world to a perfect state?
Because it serves His purpose: it is an exam by which people choose willingly and unconditionally to trust and love God irrespective of whether they had it extremely good or bad.

At the end of the day, His own are selected and then only, the Heavens and the Earth are reset!

@bolded, Nope i am not, that would be intellectual dishonesty

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_evil

http://www.philosophyofreligion.info/arguments-for-atheism/the-problem-of-evil/the-argument-from-natural-evil/

http://www.reasons.org/articles/natural-evil-or-moral-evil

http://www.bbc.co.uk/schools/gcsebitesize/rs/god/chgoodandevilrev1.shtml

http://www.crivoice.org/evil.html

All you need to do is google the two types of Evil, it is not something i just made up, this is grounded in philosophy and theology.

So when you realize i ddnt make that up, you would be faced with the question i have always asked, why would a good God allow Natural Evil?

shadeyinka:
Critical analysis of the bolded will lead to a conclusion of "Not True!".

I feel sad : a lady turned me down!
I am sad: I failed my medical exam!
I feel pain: my 98 year old Grandma died!

Evil is NOT defined by Feeling.

You agreed with his submission because you have the same conclusion that God doesn't Exist.

Personally, i believe evil encompasses both intentionality and natural.

Intention: Mans inhumanity to man, slavery, rape, murder, genocide, wars, racism, homophobia, e.t.c... these are evils that we bring upon ourselves.

Natural: hurricanes, earthquakes, flooding, asteroid strike, solar radiation, diseases, a baby born with cancer...these are natural evils in which we have absolutely have no control over.

The former can be attributed to free will like you said, and i agree whole heartedly while the latter, well the latter is really indifferent about us and our feelings, and since evil is a feeling being created on a third party, Nature most times feel evil to us, but this is exactly the kind of universe you would expect to live in if there was no benevolent, all powerful, all loving creator who wants the best for us.

akintom:
I speak as humanist

It's all about nomenclature, human beings gave the name "good" to every natural phenomena that elicit pleasant experience and "bad/evil" to unpleasant experience.

Natural phenomena are in themselves neither good nor evil, it's the feeling they elicit in human experience that creates the labeling of good or evil.

For example, for an old man that is terminally ill of painful cancer, death will elicit feeling of good.
But death will elicit the feeling of evil in a non terminally ill young man.

My conclusion therefore is, the origin or source of evil (a labeling) is unpleasant response to natural phenomena.


Religious/Gods beliefs are mere concepts of human imagination built on assumptions (no empirical facts or evidences). The Gods that came from nothing can only explain nothing.

Even if one assume that Gods exist, the very God that's claimed to be good, is the very source of evil. Since he's the source/creator of everything.

I could not agree with you more...

shadeyinka:
LOL!
I am speaking with respect to the user of the hypothetical computer where to the user, unplanned things like sluggishness, crash of HDD, I'd theft etc could occur. By original plan I compare with how the computer was designed to function by the manufacturer.

The Manufacturer handed the computer to the user with a warning: "DO NOT ACCEPT A SOFTWARE FROM UNVERIFIED SOURCE". If the user disobeys the manufacturer and his computer gets infacted, erratic and dangerous computer behaviours could be expected.

This is the state of the Earth: given to Man with an instruction of not violating a command. Of course, man violated the command and a trojan was planted in the earth.

Now your question:
Does it mean that God was caught unawares?
NO!
The fall of man actually serves God the purpose of " weeding out" men who choose not to love and follow God by their volition. It also serve as an avenue to harvest men who will unconditionally love and trust God for such, God need in eternity with Himself.

In the scriptures the overcomes are known as "cloud of witness."

Lol, i love your writeup and your responses so far, kudos.

But because someone knows the story of Harry potter well, doesnt change the fact that it was imaginary(i use this just as an example).

Your theology might hold up, i give you that but that doesnt mean its foundation is not weak.

DoctorAlien:
donnffd,

This little summary of mine, though imperfect, might be of help to you:

GOD has always been. He will always be. He is Love and He radiates Love. He wanted to create beings whom He would love, and who will be able to choose to love and serve Him for the loving Creator He is. He would create them with freewill and not as robots without minds of their own. He knew that the gift of freewill will be abused, and that rebellion will arise from one of His creatures with freewill.

What should He do? Not create beings capable of choosing to love Him because one of them would choose not to do so? No. He is able to salvage the situation should one of His creatures rebel and introduce sin. He creates angels, including Lucifer. Lucifer decides not to give the glory to GOD. Sin comes. Satan is cast out. GOD creates man. Man decides to disobey GOD. Sin spreads to man.

GOD will not leave man to suffer. He has provided salvation in Jesus Christ. Receive Him and receive eternal life.

Lol...what makes you think i want eternal life?, wont it get tiring and boring after the first 10,000years?

DoctorAlien:
The gift of freewill will surely be abused, and rebellion against GOD will surely arise. But woe to the person through whom these will come.

Bear in mind that GOD did not create Satan; He created Lucifer.

But he knew he would be satan later on...

Smallville10:
Biya, mr. Athiest, why dont u go and ask God by ur self... Am i GOD? Weda he know or not, d thing is satan has been created, man has been created, you have been created, so worry more about ur self on d last day and stop carry satan problem like its ur own. Biko leave me. Inuna?

Lol...ok sir

shadeyinka:
I understand you, but I think you are trying to force your definition of evil to include anything that causes pain and/or death but its not so.

A promising 12 years old gets electrocuted! If no deliberate intension is involved van we ascribe evil?

A man carelessly driving unintentionally ran over a motorcyclist and killed/maimed him. Is this an evil?

A snake or lion who kills and swallowed/ate a pregnant woman is never called evil. The intension was to eat and NOT to cause pain!

Evil starts and end with an intention to harm or cause pain.

So you see why "We can NOT agree that Natural Disasters which brings strife, pain and death therefore can be termed Evil."

Evil is a Product of Choices we make due to our Free will.

Osama Bin'Ladin could be said to be evil however the people responsible for the Chernobyl nuclear accident in Russia are NOT evil.


Good is also a product of freewill choice.

If I accidentally found N68,000,000 thrown away by a Governor or Politician can I ascribe goodness to such a politician?

However, I a politician gave me N50,000, we can say such a politician is good (at least to me if no ulterior motive was involved)

Ok fine, i concede... let me rephrase it, what is the plan behind Natural disasters?

Smallville10:
good... Evil has no origin, u either chose to be good or evil... It all begins from d heart... Lucifer had a choice to make and he did... He has powers, alot of powers but what he chose to do with those powers is what makes d difference btw him and GOD... U as a man have d power to do good or evil... So which do u chose

Ok, choice, but if God(all-knowing) knew satan would cause lots of strife for his creations, why did God still went ahead to create him?, if God hates evil and could not stand it, why ddnt he not just create satan at all knowing fully well if he did, he would chose to do lots of evil?

DoctorAlien:
donnffd,

After creating man, GOD placed him in a position of authority and control over all creation. He was to subdue the earth. Adam had control over everything, from the smallest microorgansim through the rich arrays of verdure to the mighty leviathan that dwelt in the waters. The lion and lamb lay together before Adam, comfortable in his tender care. The birds would perch on his should as the chanted praises to GOD. When Adam sinned, he fell from his position of authority over creation, and surrendered that authority to Satan. That is why Satan now poses as the prince of this world. Creation became alienated to man. The ground would only yield food after much toil.

Natural disasters and diseases(remember Job?) are caused by Satan. He wrecks havoc, and then attributes them to GOD, in a bid to distort His character. Indeed, do people not call earthquakes and tsunamis "acts of GOD"?

Perhaps, the greatest testimony to Satan's control of this world is the execution of the sinless Son of GOD.

So you mean that the pain and suffering is all caused by satan who chose to be evil?

If thats the case, then why did God create him in the first place since God(omni-science) knew that satan would chose to be evil and cause alot of harm to his other creations?

Eddlad:
Say I created a lab full of robots, and I tell them not to stand by the oscilloscope, now standing there in itself means nothing or probably harms no one. But I go a step further and call the act of standing by the oscilloscope scoping, a term which later and inevitably becomes detering in itself as it's seen to be directly against the will of the scientist.

The only ingredient you need to actually scope or not is freewill, and that he has given you.

So scoping or metering( standing by the multi meter, yeah that too) may not be "bad" or "evil" in themselves but anything that the scientist says or anything against what he says is.

Hope you get me.

That cannot be regarded as Evil, thats just laws or rules.

Evil is anything that causes strife, hardship, misery and death.

Man can be Evil, Nature can be Evil

If you claim that man's evil is as a result of his free-will, then how do you explain Nature's own?

shadeyinka:
Does the definition of Evil cover Natural Disasters?
A Natural disasteris evil only if it was INITIATED by a personality!

Like firing an Atomic Bomb over a civilian population is an evil committed by the initiator.

So, who is the cause of Natural disasters? God?

You cannot blame God for what He didn't do.


Man was created to be Master of everything God made. Mans sin terminated his mastery over the earth. The earth became hostile, animals became hostile and man began to die young. Man was placed at creation in a world where he had everything.

Atheists will begin to look for a direct cause and effect of sin on natural calamities. You wount find it.

To earth you were made to it you will return!
Out of your Sweat you will survive on the earth!


There are Forces positive and negative operating on the earth. Negative forces dominate us because man is in a fallen state.


Finally, we inherit both the weakness and strengths of our ancestors.

I understand you perfectly and i know that Mans inhumanity to man is a product of our free-will, there is no doubt, but what is Good and what is Evil?

You seem to be looking at Evil from only one perspective, Evil with intention, what about Evil without intention?

We can agree good is anything that brings happiness and longevity

We can also agree that Evil is anything that brings suffering, strife, pain ,hardship and ultimately death.

In my post, i said "God created the universe"...which means everything along with it.

We can agree Natural Disasters brings strife, pain and death therefore can be termed Evil.

Even if humans were all christians and obeyed God, Natural Disasters would to cause harm and suffering, so why is that and where did it originate from?

I really hope you understand my point!

NB: I do not blame God for anything, just wondering if people say he is so benevolent then why does Evil exist in the universe?

Pidggin:
Evil originated from sin of disobedience, from pride and self exhortation

Interesting, but it just pushes the question backwards, where did pride come from(if God the source of all things is not proud)?

Smallville10:
its a good thing u said Evil and not 'Evil Powers'... But let me ask u a simple question... Define Evil

Anything or process that feels bad and causes harm...

shadeyinka:
You have placed your premise down in such a way as to conclude that if there is no iota of Evil in God and God "created evil" then its either God is Evil or He doesn't exist!

But, not so fast my friend!

First, EVIL is NOT a thing.

If Evil is not a thing, then is is not a direct creation. Evil must have been a bi-product of creation!

One could argue that the creator is also responsible for the bi-product His creation caused: like man is responsible for the carbon polutulion vehicles cause.

So before explaining the above, we need to define the term evil!

Dictionary Defn:
adjective
Intending to harm; malevolent.
Morally corrupt., Unpleasant.
synonyms
nefarious, malicious, malevolent
antonyms
good
noun (plural evils)


However, Gods definition of Evil is more Generic:
Evil is going against the WILL of God.

The above definition covers both the dictionary definition and more.

For example "consensual fornication" is evil eben though the dictionary definition does not imply so.

Now that we have set the proper ground of understanding, we answer the question "isn't God responsible howbeit indirectly for evil"?

1. Evil is an inevitable consequence of Free will.
2. Creatures of free will commit evil NOT God
3. For Evil not to Exist, creatures of Free will must not exist.
4. It was Gods desire to have both creatures with
I. No free will e.g. Planets, Atoms, Gravity etc AND
ii. Creatures with Free will e.g. Angels, Man

Objective:
Ultimately to select among the Free Willed Creatures those who will Love and Obey Him by their Free Will.

Only such are useful to God!

Conclusion:
Evil is a biproduct of the creation of free will.
Agents of Free will cause Evil and NOT God

I rest my case!

lordnicklaus:
Good question. The origin of evil is something that has left people perplexed and desiderate for answers. Freewill itself is the very foundation of both good and evil. Religious inclination doesn't determine moral value but freewill does, so one can chose to be good or evil regardless of being religious or not. So, God gave freewill to all but evil was spurned from the idea to be more important and revered and to prove nonchalant to rules and regulations. Evil is but an illusion, a barren wasteland untouched by the rain of goodness. From every perfection, there can be an eruption of evil.

DoctorAlien:
Yours is a very intelligent question. The truth is that the origin of sin and evil is mysterious and unaccounted for. It is mysterious because it is hard to understand why a being terribly powerful(next in power only to the GODhead), in the holy and untainted courts of Heaven, would begin to harbour conceit and pride in his heart.
It is pertinent to understand, anyway, that GOD does not force obedience from His Creatures, and that they can choose to worship Him or not.

Thanks for your insightful answers, but you fail to encompass all of the definition of Evil and just looked at it from an Anthropomorphic view.

What about Natural Disasters, Disease, Hurricanes and Tornadoes leave people homeless in the thousands and many dead.

People are born into heritable diseases

Certain Microorganisms that are vital for the survival for certain animals would wipe out the human race if it somehow got into our systems.

Asteriods strikes the earth every 100million years or so wiping almost all life on the planet.

What am i trying to say, Evil isnt just caused by sentience, Nature also can feel every evil, so why does even Nature which doesnt have a free-will also have the illusion of Evil?, and where did this illusion come from?

I just want to ask this question following this logic:-

1. You cant give what you dont have.
2. God doesn't have an iota of Evil
3. God created all things in the universe
4. There is Evil in the universe.


So my question is where exactly did evil originate from, if God is devoid of it (and please the devil is not an answer because he too was created by God)?


Please only matured theists are invited to attempt the question, thanks.

cc: shadeyinka, lordnicklaus, doctoralien e.t.c

Ceretrons:
What your definition of life?

An Organic system that has and maintains its own internal metabolism

butterfly88:
why are all these parameters "just right" for life?

This is the issue...

Even if the universe was fine-tuned, why are you so sure it was for life?

butterfly88:
not attempting to insult you bro..only asking if you fully grasp the concept of fine tuning..i'm also not claiming to be a master in the field

as for the bolded...this one is not a question of using the heart in argument(it isn't a topic of love)...various scientists(atheist and Theist) have argued in this line and have supported the concept of fine tuning notable of then is stephen hawking...and others too have argued on the contrary

I am a student of knowledge and if you logic/opinion on the topic is superior I'll gladly accept

having different opinions on something isn't a crime by the way.

as for your question my topic isn't about comparing one universe with another but about the fundamental constants that governs the universe...why are they so "carefully chosen" to accommodate life?

You still dont get my point...

@bolded
1. There is no evidence yet to confirm anybody chose anything.

2. It could be argued that the universe was fine-tuned for stars rather than life because stars are littered everywhere in the universe but life is very very limited.

3. Saying the universe is fine-tuned is also acknowledging that you know the difference between a fine-tuned universe and a "not fine-tuned" one hence me asking, how can you make such a conclusion when you have a sample size of one?(i used the snow-flake example, i suggest you refer to it), its simple logic.

So, if you have just a single example, how can you know whether it was fine-tuned or not, when you dont even know what a "not fine-tuned" universe looks like (i really dont know how i will explain for you to understand again oooo!).

butterfly88:
@donnffd:do you even understand the concept of fine tuning to begin with?

What are you saying?, if thats an attempt to insult, i would advise to refrain from it and use your intellect instead of your heart in arguing.

We have heard the argument all over and over again, the fundamental constants are just right and if slightly deviated from its current values would result in a universe far different from this.

Now i am asking you, Have you seen another universe for you to deduce that this one was fine-tuned?, Have you compared this one with any other one?, are you basing your judgement on a sample size of one?

shadeyinka:
This isn't funny donffd!

The reality is that FEAR will grip you in His presence.
Your spirit will judge you and you will know that you have no case!

The director of MATRIX seems to understand the kind of reality the universe is made of.

The question is "What is Real?"
This physical world we are so used to and the spirit rhelm we are yet to experience!

Why be Afraid when the worst he can do to me is to torture me for all eternity and that would probably be my fate anyways nevertheless, so why not address him boldly and confidently and ask him questions we ask ourselves here on earth.

If Reality is like the MATRIX, then how can those people jacked into the matrix really know whats outside it? unless given real concrete proof like the way Neo(Keanu Reeves) was.

What if Morpheus just came to Neo and told him to trust him when he says Zion exists but never shows him, do you really thing Neo would believe it?

If we are yet to experience the spiritual world, then why would God judge us for something we never experienced in the first place?, he just wants us to believe on blind faith?

The idea that the universe is fine-tuned for life is an argument from ignorance.

You dont have a sample of universes for you to claim that this one was designed or fine-tuned.

You obviously dont know what an undesigned universe looks like!, so how can you know what a designed universe is?

The argument is like coming across a single snowflake and because you see its beautifully crystallized structure, you claim that it was designed and that was your proof. We all know that would be a mistake to come to that conclusion, so why do you use the same style of argument with the universe?

You cannot make a definitive claim with a sample size of one, thats just wrong.

If i die and discover there is a God, i would ask him why he went through such pains to hide himself from us!

lordnicklaus:
This thread is meant to be an advice to both theists and atheists and not to defame them. Below are common mistakes I have noticed on this board and adjustments should be made to them.

MISTAKES THEISTS MAKE

1. Telling Atheists That They Are Angry With God:

The common trend amongst some theists on this section is the statement "You don't believe in God because you are angry with him". It is simply a sad attempt at debating or engaging in discussions with atheists. Most of them do not believe in aliens and that does not mean they feel resentment towards extraterrestrial life. This would only see an almost perfect discussion ending in exchange of swear words.


2. Threatening Atheists With Hell:
I do not believe in hell and even if you do, please keep your belief to yourself. When most theists on this section are unable to disprove an atheistic notion, they resort to threats of eternal frying telling atheists about the dread of hell and this is quite hurtful.

3. Asking Atheists To Change Their Names If It Alludes Or Pertains To God:
What is your business if their names contain an ascribation to God? I saw a thread pertaining to this recently on this board and even if I didn't reply to it, it was quite annoying and sad.

4. Telling Atheists That They Are Possessed: This claim is a sister to the first. Some theists on this board call atheists "demon possessed" or have inscribed atheism on the tablet of Satanism or Luciferanism. For God sake, they are just giving their opinions and this doesn't mean they get their answers from Satan.

It is true that they are being skeptic of our views but since we do not agree with their notion, we are also "skeptics" of atheism. So skepticism is intrinsic to both parties.

MISTAKES ATHEISTS MAKE

1. Criticising Roughly:
Some of our atheistic friends on this board make a mistake of criticizing roughly. We have them saying things like "Jesus is a bastard" or "What can your f*cking God do?" and this gives other theists the effontery to call them "sadists" or "God-haters". Criticism is accepted, but please criticise nicely and if you must do so, do it in peace and you will get a nice answer from a willing theist in return.

2. Expecting Their Notions To Affect Only The Christians' View:
We have threads like "Reading This Will Make You Throw Your Bibles Away" or "No Intellectual Christian Will Remain A Christian After Reading This". Isn't an atheistic proposition supposed to touch members of all religions? Remember, religion doesn't imply only Abrahamism and Yahweh isn't the only one worshipped by a religious sect?
3. Bashing Into Threads Pertaining To Christianity Unwelcomed:
Most theists, Christians to be exact do not like this. There are certain discussions in which atheists are allowed to share their opinions but it is restricted to threads pertaining the debate about God's existence and not threads meant to discuss doctrines or issues within the confines of Christianity.

If we can all do this, then Nairaland religion section will be free of insults, hatred and taunts.

Nice work...

Please is there any other tribe in Nigeria than the OP's tribe?

Just asking...

Just like Gods, spirits, santa claus, and the fairy godmother, Karma is an imaginary effect that we humans wish would happen because we always want justice for bad and good deeds.

Sadly, the universe doesnt work like that and things just happen. That is precisely the reason we have a justice system so we ourselves can punish the bad since the universe wont do it for us.

My take on this issue is that Nature is just Nature, it is not evil neither is it benign.

Whatever will happen would happen when it would happen to who and what it would happen to.

Nature has no mind, or feelings, or goals, or desires...it just is but like a child playing with a piano, has lots of chaotic sounds but still limited to a range and if you wait long enough, you hear the pattern or string of sounds that make up the great chaos.

Its absurd to think nature is meant for us, when 99.99999999999999999999999999999999% of it would kill us instantly.

We are like a brief candle light in a terrible wind storm protected by a small hand known as the earth but that still doesnt diminish us because we can use our brief moment to show the way.

So i wont say Nature is chaotic or ordered, i would just say Nature is