₦airaland Forum

mhizesther:
Hello everyone,i joined nairaland in september and ive been observing for a while....im an atheist and i look forward to making new friends....i would love to have christian friends too but pls dont tell me about ur jesus...im not interested in that jesus stuff...im a nice person and i really have a lot of questions for christians....

Welcome to NL...

LiberaDeus:
So how do you propose DNA with its 3 billion letter code came about?

The misconception that DNA is such an intelligent thing baffles me and i believe it stems from the fact most people dont fully understand what it is and its function in living things.

DNA is just a molecule that can replicate, its replication is not perfect(another sign of non-intelligence), sometimes segments get duplicated, sometimes bases change and so on. In about 3.8billion years, you have a molecule that has been undergoing these kind of changes and you are still surprised that it is this complex?

The exact origin of the molecule is still speculative, some say it started from RNA(see RNA world hypothesis), which it most likely did, but we cant be sure because it has not been experimentally proven, but whatever or how ever it came about, it is obvious that no intelligence whatsoever was involved.

LiberaDeus:
Yes I meant universe known to man. The existence of design in animals is the backbone of a belief in god.

But even if we find more complex creatures in distant planets it only throws the gaping question back again which is ' was there intelligence behind some of it '

The idea that intelligence must be behind complexity stems from our own species and our effects on the world. Humans have always been a very unimaginative species, we believe the world and the universe always work according to the way we are and understand, this is so far from the truth. Evolution is just one field where you can have complexity from simpler forms without any input from a designer or intelligence, why should an alien intelligence arise any differently?

LiberaDeus:
The most complex thing in the universe is DNA. That's where the biggest mystery of life lies.

You cant make claims of what is the most complex thing in the universe when you are limited to a very tiny fraction of it, you dont know whats out there!

If you said DNA is the most complex thing in the universe known to man, it would be a more valid statement in which i would still disagree with, i would say the human brain is the most complex object in the universe known to man.

smartn09:
If you would want a test of my charm/juju on your faith, you are also welcome.

Sincerely, Most Atheists are very sincere, if you can provide irrefutable evidence right now that the supernatural exists, i would be far more religious than you are tomorrow, if not i cannot deceive myself

So please by all means, I am so interested in your so-called charm or juju. Convert away

MrPRevailer:
Don't you know that the unrighteous will not enter the kingdom of God. Don't be deceived: neither .... homosexuals will enter the kingdom of God.

....shall have their part in the Lake which burns with fire Nd brimstone.

Don't be too quick to criticise. Am not judging anybody. Ponder your path whether it leads to life or death.

What are you saying?, dont be quick to criticize who?, why are you guys hypocrites.

Somebody who calls himself a christian was suggesting to kill or stone those gays to death and i am saying that person is a terrorist just like bokoharam and isis.

Is your God too weak to fight for himself?, let God do the judging and leave those people to their life

Now tell me, where does criticize come in?

The Level of ignorance, men...smh, i weep for this continent!

MrPRevailer:
And must you respond against him for his comment. or are you one of them?

Whether should be killed or punished the point is the deed is dastard/hateful. That's the point.

When the pharisees brought a prostitute to the feet of jesus and asked him what should be done to her, without looking up, he said, "He who is without sin should cast the first stone". After they left, he told the woman, "go and sin no more".

Learn from the founder of your religion...i guess thats what the word "Christianity" means!

Klinee:
Why are they practicing evil act in this world. He should be arrested and stone to death or gun him down. Devilish, barbaric evil pastor.

This is your first response to someone doing something that doesnt affect you in anyway, now tell me what differentiates you from bokoharam killing christians or isis cutting peoples head for not believing in their own doctrines?

and you would claim you are a christian full of love...smh

But i guess there is evidence for dust turning into man, right?

DeLioncourt:
If hypothetically, It were proven beyond the shadow of a doubt that God exists, would you still remain an atheist or not? And why...

Ofcourse not, if it was proven beyond shadow of doubt, why deny it?

Speaking hypothetically ofcourse...

Tellemall:
They are still there. They still practise it today. It's only pseudo- educated Africans who believe it doesn't exist.

This is the most ignorant post i have read in a very long while... so people who do not believe in voodoo nonsense are pseudo-educated?...smh

ever811:
if you have a bible at home...let me know so I can show you how to understand Gods ways than dwelling on scientific theories or atheist mentality.open your mind so you can understand spiritual operations.you are mortal and you have refuse to admit your reliance on external force which you experience every day of your life.you people hypocritically accuse us of believing in the white mans God but while you dwell on the white man theories.. you believe in the with man declared course of your existence by evolution which is as inconsistent as the story changes by day.but won't allow us believe in the white mans consistent God of creation ..

Lol, you are funny, go through your post, you did not make one single point regarding the question i asked, i did not argue with you, i just asked a simple question and you start attacking me...lol, doesnt that show your little understanding of what you seem to promote...

ever811:
if I show you in the bible where God made us to understand that he is aware of the things you mentioned and it will surely be cast out in the new Jerusalem (world) you will still not believe, so continue...God is not forcing any one to believe in him that's why he gave us freedom and we are using it against him...

So let me get this straight, God answers your prayer a few hours after you prayed but ignores the millions suffering and promises he would answer theirs when the new Jerusalem comes?

Seriously?

dejilg:
colossal ignorance...solving world problem even wen d world reject his offerings to make them whole? every time I hear or see people type this I just can't help but see their ignorance, that statement shows that u have set the rules of right and wrong for "god" and this mere action makes that "god" not greater than u are. did u even think through abt the standards God will uphold? does the world meet that standard? Please think before u suggest that next time...

dejilg:
Bro relax...
did u read his post? and did u read my comment?
He set a rule about wat God ought to do and not that we should pray about it (they are 2 diff things)
again how does God doing what u described solves the problem of the world? and why can't we be so merciful to ourselves that we need God to do even things we can do? why can't we do our part? dis u even bother to know the mind of God ? are u not limiting Him to ur own standards? isn't this the issue I picked with him? why are u not addressing that?

You read a post and your first response is to insult,how can i really take you seriously?, but your second post is what prompted this response.

it is very obvious you did not read my post and just jumped at the first chance to counter it...go and read it again, i asked the OP some questions and asked him to stop being selfish and pray for people who suffer from cancer and die from Natural disasters, i am wondering which standard i am setting for God if i asked someone to pray to him to prevent world hunger and suffering.

If your God is so powerful and so loving, why does he allow people die from earthquakes and hurricanes?, you cannot argue that natural disasters is something caused by man or something we can fix, can you?

Why does he answer your prayer to get a new car and a new job but ignores the thousands of starving children who are born into abject poverty?

Which kind of standard does your God have?

NB: if you believe God should answer your prayer of finding your car keys but ignore innocent children dying from cancer and starvation, then you are a terrible person indeed.

You know if you were a muslim and prayed to allah instead of the yahweh, those things would still have happened, does that mean allah exists?

You can try this experiment with any religion that believes in a supernatural being, the answer is always the same, you pray and your prayer gets answered, but how do you know it was yahweh that was answering your prayers?

The human mind is a powerful thing and easily deceives itself, we always long for a big and greater being in our lives or society, if its not God and religion, then its advanced aliens or something like that, its in our genetic makeup.

You have given two instances where you prayed a personal prayer and God answered you, but have you stopped to think about the other millions of people in the world today that are far worse than you were when you prayed, and they keep praying and they keep dying in starvation and disease, do God hate them?, what about the cancer patients praying to God for a healing, do God despises them? Why dont their prayers get answered also?...just asking an honest question.

People go to church and give testimonies of how God made them have a contract or how he helped them find their car keys but forget the millions in the world suffering and dying with no sign of help coming from anywhere even with constant prayers, why are religious people so self absorbed?

Well, if God answered your prayers, and he really exists, then ask him to solve world poverty and hunger, cure cancer and all diseases, stop natural disasters from happening and heal amputees...then we would know God is real and he does infact answers prayers.

Julian08:
You don't have to agree with me. All I want you to do is to think about it a bit. What I'm trying to stress, albeit indirectly, here is the subjectivity of the methodology of science. Delving partially into philosophy has made this open to me and I want other atheists to see this for themselves. If you are interested in the topic, we can set up a thread for that.

Can you explain in clear terms how the methodology of science can be subjective?

Julian08:
If that's the case, what kind of evidence can we then consider objective?
I am an atheistic existentialist and can't do away with subjectivity. It is important for you to note that science is also, in a sense, subjective and we can't use it to test the claim for a god (in the sense theist define it). Moreover, it is subjective in its description and explanation of physical reality: It interprets data in a certain way but not another way.

I disagree, Science by definition is very objective, that's why it works, thats why it doesnt rely on authority or gut-feelings, on the contrary, it needs empirical data and experimentations also peer review and must be reproducible for it to hold or be qualified as science.

The question of God's existence is an objective one, either there is a God or not, so if there is some evidence that clearly shows some intelligibility and highly unnatural, then we would have a very good case for the existence of God, so far so good, No such evidence has been found, so fingers crossed.

shadeyinka:
Till date, this is the weakest post I've seen you make.

Wrong Premise!
Wrong Assumptions!
Wrong Conclusion!

I wish you could withdraw this.

You'll notice for some time I've deliberately moved out of atheist-theist discussions. I do not intend to start again but a vey simple analysis shows that your bias is bringing forth bad judgement.

You would be amazed the number of theists whose thinking capabilities are not set straight, the post was born from a frustrated thought process that erupted after a very funny and irritating theist asked me "if God doesnt exist, why dont you go about killing and raping people". *facepalm*

saasala:
The bolded is not one I will agree to about atheists. Atheists are the most dogmatic people I have come across in life. They have so shut their hears and understanding agaist the existence of God that when you try to explain certain things to them, from their countenance to their first speach when they try to defend their father "Charles Darwin" it is clear to you they are not giving your points a single thought or consideration.

You know its actually very easy to know a dogmatic person, you trying to convince an atheist with your points isnt gonna cut it, i am sure you would be the 1001th person doing that, so dont use that has a measure of dogmatism, rather do this simple task...

First ask yourself, what if i am wrong?, and then ask your fellow xtians the same question...

Then ask an atheist the same question too!

Their answer would determine whether they are dogmatic or not. Have Fun

NB: A dogmatic person would never accept he could be wrong

UyiIredia:
Respond to the points please. Otherwise I can assume you can't refute it.

I have better things to do than to spend my time doing back and forth with you...but i would ask this question, kudos, you have destroyed Evolution with your ten points, now whats your alternative?

Here we go again...

Pidggin:
You can't be an athiest if you are simple minded or mentally handicapped, you cannot be an athiest if you are not exposed to Western education

There is no single truth to this statement, some people have no understanding of science whatsoever and are still atheists.

Whenever you engage an athiest in a discussion their first line of attack is your mental capacity. Is it right to discriminate against anyone based on your perceived function of an organ in his body?

Anyone who attacks personally in a debate is not civilized both atheist and theist. A debate should be civilized and be respectful and not a immature exchange of insults.

They pride themselves with being intelligent by Western educational standards perhaps because without western civilization athiesm is incomplete

That is not necessarily the case, most atheists that are grounded in science know what they are talking about and so would traditionally sound intelligent, science is not a western thing, Science is a univeral thing.

The irony of everything is their belief system which is still based on theories, yet they require facts from others even from those whose belief systems are based on faith.

Atheism is not a belief system, it is the rejection of belief in supernatural beings, calling it a belief system is just being intellectually dishonest, and atheism is not the same thing as Science, atheism is not based on theories rather its based on pure logic and intuition, nothingelse.

Charles Darwin, who is their god never knew about DNA yet they still believe in most of his failed THEORIES

Many athiests have gone to their Graves still believing in someone else's theories while demanding facts from others, when will these people really understand that they are actually the simple minded ones not those who they discriminate against

This is another wrong statement, Charles Darwin is not a god of any kind, he was the profounder of the infamous Natural selection theory, and thats it. Like i said before, Science is not atheism, many theists accepts Evolution because it is Science and calling Charles Darwin a god of atheists is another show of either ignorance or intellectual dishonesty

I think if you are respectful, intellectually sound and honest, well grounded in science and generally accomodative to the atheist argument but respectful disagree with his or her position and give your reasons why you do so with logic and sound arguments, then you would have a more pleasant debate or encounter.

Juju...really?...these people would never cease to amaze me, kia.

Mat franco did the same trick infact this is a very popular trick in the magic world, i really dont understand why they want so badly to believe in juju,smh.

I want God to cure world hunger and poverty, all of those with cancers, and then heal amputees....ijn, amen

Richirich713:
I'm saying that goodness is intrinsic to God's being, his nature and character defines what is good, and his commands are a manifestation of his nature.

What if God commanded me to kill my child? What if I was the father of Stalin or hitler?

Killing is not the same as murder, me killing in self defense is not evil or wrong becuz my reasons for killing are adequate.

This is called special pleading, so if Abraham had killed his son, it wont be regarded as murder?

Then if goodness is intrinsic to Gods nature, then you shouldn't be afraid to carry out the commands of God from the old testament, should you?, he is the same yesterday, today and forever right?

lordnicklaus:
First, you have made a vital point to be considered wholeheartedly. But there is something you pointed out which I am quite at odds with. There is nothing that is predestined, only lazy people think so. People who lack the courage to face the trials before them. People whose thinking is abysmal and vehicled by fear of things which are mundane. Morality, though personal, at times need to be instilled or inculcated so as to make one aware of things which are morally debasing or upholding. Murder is totally immoral and against life but even with that, people use it as basis for vengeance or resentment towards inflicted harm and thus, the need to forgive arises and God has just made us aware of the benefits of forgiveness and then such a precept becomes personal being aware of it as a thinking person. Moral value becomes personal when it is inculcated.

Superb response and i agree with you wholeheartedly, but my intention was to find out the reason for being moral purely from a theistic point of view. We know inherently know that murder is bad, but many claims that this knowledge comes from God, so if it really does, then by which standard those God set his own morality?, by his own will or by what is true independant of reality?

If it is by his own will, then morality isnt really objective since it will change according to the commands of God and if it is independant of reality then it means God was not responsible for morality in the first place!.

jonbellion:
stop arguing with that guy he likes feeling asif he's making sense that's one thing I've come to observe

Yea, its just fruitless engaging with some of these peeps...

felixomor1:
Sorry, u r not making any point.

If u disobey laws u pay for it. And the judge administers the punishment.

U didnt make any point by listing the laws.
Sorry!

Who gives the judge the right to administers punishment and by whose standard those the judge judges by?

oh wait, lemme guess your reply!

felixomor1:
Again, the question resounds
If a supreme court judge orders execution of a convict, is it wrong?

The answer to this question is the answer to your question.
No offence meant.

I guess noone ever told you that it is impolite to answer a question with a question...

felixomor1:
Of course God says it is wrong and it resounds in our Conscience that he has given us.

Proverbs 20:27 The spirit of man is the candle of the LORD, searching all the inward parts of the belly.

so what if God says kill your child like he commanded Abraham to do or he commands you to kill the witches and infidels like he did in the old testament, would it be wrong then?

felixomor1:
What I can deduce from this write up is that if the judge of a supreme court sentences a convict to death for example, the judge becomes a murderer?

The way people are reasoning nowwdays sha..
I can only but wonder where the world is going.

The op is not questioning God's motive behind certain things(whatever they maybe), it is asking you a question, is murder wrong because it is wrong or is it wrong because God says its wrong?