₦airaland Forum

I'm confused by this statement. Are you saying that Africans criticize you for knowing rich Africans?

African American socialists or communists.

None of this information disproves the American class system. For starters, Oprah is not friends with the Rockfellers and probably could not belong to their country club if she tried.

Put Oprah and the Rockefellers in your search engine, same social set and circle. Not being personal friends with them doesn't prove the American class system either.

She did not have the same educational or professional opportunities because of the class system not despite it. Class works to exclude the majority of resources (incl. opportunities). Oprah succeeded inspite of the existence of a class system not b/c of a non-existent class system.

Well, of course your right. All Black people in America succeed by force of will and ambition. Trying to get into the big house by being favored went out with the harlem renaissance. (when rich whites sponsored black poets and singers).

America will continue to have high illiteracy, high teen pregnancy, high unemployment and lack adequate health care (in comparison to the rest of the industrialized world) b/c people are too stuck on nonsense to represent their economic interests!

I agree with that but as one who belongs to the group whose teen pregnancy has just dropped back to the rate of the 1950's, while others stayed the same or got worse, whose high unemployment is merely 10 percent and whose high illiteracy is dropping also and really high semi-illiteracy. I think not representing their interests rest with "other" Americans, not my particular subset group of Americans.

CLASS MATTERS. Bill Gates is a Richie b/c his family was UPPER (very high upper) MIDDLE/lower upper class. Even he will tell you that.

Bill Gates denies the rumor that he recieved a million dollar trust fund. He went to good schools and was lucky but not that lucky. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gates,_Bill

The success of these "make it good" icons is comprable to a the success of a few streams of river water making it throw a dam (by decree of the 'dam watcher') in order to preserve the structural integrity of the dam (class system) itself.

I agree but like Jessie Jackson says: Keep hope alive.

If anything the commodification of our lives (or is it self-esteem) is the true American Pathology.

I refer to America as the Walmart nation, with a walmart religion, a walmart educational system, etc, etc. One big shopping center. We are definitely the foremost people dedicated to the God of Mammon. And he is ruthless in killing us for our greed, alienating us.

I definitely agree here.

Eze 28:4 With your wisdom and with your understanding you have made riches for yourselves, and have worked gold and silver into your treasuries.

Eze 28:5 By your great wisdom and by your trade you have multiplied your riches, and your heart is lifted up because of your riches.

Eze 28:10 You shall die the deaths of the uncircumcised by the hand of strangers. For I have spoken, says the Lord Jehovah.

It's not some crazy catholic belief, there are scriptures that can support the idea of various or individualised responses friom God to each person.

Feelgood,

I do not know if purgatory is real or not. I am just showing the scriptures that show various beatings or rewards for different people.

This is the idea of purgatory and that idea is real and biblical.

Your verses seem to support what I believe:

Rom 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
Rom 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
Rom 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Rom 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another
Rom 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

There is a law for those who are naturally better than the rest of us. Another law is said to kick in there. The law written in their hearts.

Anasias and Sapphira were not said to be sent to hell? Were they? If so then we all go to hell because we will all die.

mamput,

I was wrong. You were right. My apologies. Thanks for the link. I love historical evidence. It was quite interesting to me.

What's not to like about sugar? On the average, modern Americans consume 100 pounds of sugar per year. It's sweet, and it gives a big energy boost. Well, yes, there are calories, cavities, and diabetes, but, in moderation, sugar is harmless , right? In 1700, English consumption empire-wide was about four pounds of sugar per person per year. That certainly seems moderate. Yet in 1700 alone, approximately 25,000 Africans were enslaved and transported across the Atlantic Ocean. Up to two-thirds of these slaves were bound for sugar cane plantations in the Caribbean, Mexico, and Brazil to produce "White Gold." Over the course of the 380 years of the Atlantic slave trade, millions of Africans were enslaved to satisfy the world's sweet tooth. A sugar by-product, molasses, was distilled into rum and sent to Africa to purchase more slaves--this is the infamous Triangle Trade in the history books. Sugar's most bitter legacy is that the labor of slaves fueled the enslavement of even more Africans.

Good article, it opened my eyes about Rum and its role in my own history. Thank you.

Delf747,

"All people systems" simply refers to systems that involve the control of people.

Educational institutions is a people system
Philosophy is a people system
Religion is a people system

Example of non-people systems:

birds flying south for the winter
Bears hibernating in the winter
bees pollanating flowers

Enugu,

I have no personal involvement with some man I do not love.

God will not take you where His grace cannot keep you. It's not only about how you feel but also about having that peace that passeth all understanding about that man/woman. God is able to give you both- love and His perfect will; He is more than able!!!

This life is hard enough and God is not going to be petty and make it any harder. He will make a way of escape and that is certainly not a loveless marriage!!!!!

But none of know the future except what the Holy Spirit shows us. What you call a loveless marriage now may very well be a loving marriage in the future.

I agree with the above statement but I go by the motto: never make life long decisions based on short term current circumstances.

If she is going to marry, she needs to think about more than how she currently feels.

A belief in Purgatory is based mostly on this verse:

Luk 12:47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.

But also on this verse:

1Jo 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.


Thus the bible seems to show that there are different punishments for different persons.

Of course when you add in God's charecter, it is sickening that people teach that Hitler who killed millions of persons only gets the same punishment as an Indian who never heard the gospel.

Of course Hitlers punishment will be worse and of course the Indian will be judged by what he knew, not what he did not know.

Nutter is a good guy. Just a kiddo who wants Biafra to be free. (Igbo land)

That does not go well with my view that ethnicities in Africa have become more of a problem than a blessing our anscestors intended.

When you look at it, the only thing Africans do not have in common is what part of Africa they occupy and the production of resources that part of Africa they occupy produces. This alone does not make one group of Africans any different from another group of Africans.

Sista of course you already know the answer. I told Nutter that the ethnicities (tribes) of Africa could be compared to the gangs of America, which are east side west side north side south side, east coast, dirty south.

He was so offended. He is still out to get me.

Anybody else can easily understand that at the base level all people are the same, it's just a matter of geography that makes an Kenyan a Kenyan and a Nigerian a Nigerian.

Culture is based on the resources that govern your area. If you live in a place where Gold is an abundant source, more than likely it will be a cultural thing for you to where gold to adorn your self. If you live in a place where torqoise is abundant, most likely the people in that area will have some kind of cultural belief that there is something spiritual about torqoise and they will adorn their self with Torqoise. No difference, only environmentally different.

(Example) Culturally speaking, what is trading all about? Is it about trying something new? Is trying something new cultural? Is trying something new a necessity? Or is trying something new about producing a product in demand?

Reasons why I asked, Africans were not aware of guns until introduced by Europeans. Today, Africans use guns but it wasn't in their culture/history to even know about guns let alone producing guns. How has the knowledge of guns and the use of guns affected Africa and Africans as a whole/ As a matter a fact, how has the introduction of foreign weapons period affected the entire Africa? Culturally speaking of course.

Once again Sista, you have hit the nail on the head. Now a place that was full of fires, disease, religious wars, serial killers, slaves-serfs, religiousity gone mad ---- is a bad environment. So that type of environment is going to produce a people who are forced out to survive and they bring with them lots of bad habits.

Quite different from the -- anybody would have done what we did argument that whites are making, it was quite clearly their environment that led to their culture of violence.

The rest of the world suffered because they turned their home into a hell hole with their "way of life".

Whites have had to introduce the same horrible factors into other cultures to get those cultures to mimic their horrible "way of life" and see this as proof that everybody is just the same.

Only problem is them, and without the intro of them all the so called problems melt away.

Donzman,

Stop trying to avoid the question. A people's way of life.

So when I eat chinese food, that is a chinese persons way of life, do I have Chinese culture?

You have just pushed the obvious further out.

What is a "way of life"?

How much of your "way of life, do I need before I have your "culture"?

By the way, since I purchased some mexican food and clothes and instruments and learned to speak spanish am I just another part of the Mexican culture.

Next week I shall do the same for Japanese, will I then be part of the Japanese culture?

Don't try to avoid the question.

Donzman,

Thank you my good man. I have been trying to get someone to engage in a definition of culture for weeks, with few takers. It seems you are willing.

What is culture?

Drusilla, there are lots of instances that can be referenced that indeed points to the white man's divide and rule nature regarding africa, but believe me, I grew up in Nigeria, there are plenty of diiferences in our culture as africans.

We are not that homogeneous at all. When people like babyosisi and donzman (now including me) suggest that it would be better for you to live in an african country to have first hand experience, we are not trying to undermine your knowledge, not at all.

This is just one of those instances were you have to "live it" to have a deeper understanding. And we are by no means saying we are not africans or we are better than other africans (e.g. Kenyans). This is far from the truth.

You seem to think that those of us trying to highlight the fact that we are Nigerians and want to be referred to as such, have bought into the white man's ideology of "divide and rule". Again, this is far from the truth.

In my opinion, the best and only way of getting an understanding of this is to physically be there for a period of time. There's no exception to this.

Gnature,

I apologize, if this whole dance was about the fact that you want to be called Nigerians. Then forgive me. Sure. When it applies, you can be called Nigerians but I believe being referred to as Africans is legitimate as well in certain contexts.

I did not understand that to be this conversation. This conversation for me was about the constant attempt by white people and those trained to think in white, to say that Africa is too diverse to ever consider united under Pan-Africanism.

@ Drusilla But if you were talking to a Cambodian and your reference was from China,it would not make sense.
I am not angry.I'm just saying that the African label as all encompassing and one size fits all kind of description is wrong.

OK Ms Dru,see you tomorrow it's now my bed time.
Meanwhile the expression 'mago mago' in Naija means a crooked,bound to fail arrangement.

At least you learnt some pidgin English slang from me today.

Thank you the lesson in slang. Maybe if you read Mamdani and African scholar, then you can learn in fact that Africa is the same so much so that he proves how South Africa experienced the same as the rest despite being "western".

@Drusilla

You can believe you're African but you really need to have experienced what it means to live in Africa in order to give accurate opinions. If not, you won't appear very bright like you're not doing right now.

Do you perhaps remember the accurate opinions that whites gave when they experienced living in Africa?

Your all savages and cannibals, after all they should know, they lived there, right and they gave accurate opinions just from having the experience, right

As one of the whitemen who experienced Africa said: Africa has no history, because it has never done anything. (skipping right over the pyramids and great wall of zimbabwe and oldest university in the world Timbuktu)

Your argument fails. Experience does not lead to accuracy.

[size=24pt]Bingo was his name!!![/size]

Europeans do neither of those things and that doesn't mean they have the same cultures as Africans. I guess Africa and Europe should unite to form a huge continent.

Donzman,

I did not know how to express how excited I was that you had finally gotten it.

Cultures are all the same. They eat, they shit, they die.

Trying to pull some different this is our culture and that is yours -- leads you down the path whites are taking you. To say that one culture is better than the other.

Their not because their all the same, as defined as currently.

Babyosisi,

Have you ever met a Cambodian who got upset when you referred to his country as part of the Asia?

Of course not.

So why should I meet people who get upset when you refer to their country as part of Africa?

Strange to say the least.

You are so wrong here.
An American has no right whatsoever to tell Africans what is best for them because he/she believes in some afrocentric mago mago that only works on paper.
You cannot legitimately lecture on 'joys of being a lesbian' if you are not one.

I can not legitmately lecture on the 'joys of being a lesbian, if I am not one. But I sure as hell can talk about the 95 percent alchoholism among lesbians because that is a fact they acknowledge. I can also talk about the fact that more domestic abuse happens in lesbian relationships because again that is a fact that they acknowledge. The joys of being a lesbian are neither here nore there and should never be discussed with non-lesbian people in the first place, it would have a way of encouraging them to try this destructive lifestyle without telling the truth about what is really happenning.

The name calling in the later part of your posting was quite unecessary but I guess that may be your own unique style.
I doubt if any Africans or Nigerians would agree with you based on our living there.
It is not possible for you to tell us what is best for us speaking from thousands of miles away.

I apologize for what you percieve as name calling. I also firmly believe that I am African. I don't consider anybody to be more or less African than myself. So I do not need anybody's permission to give my opinion about Africa.

Donzman,

Have you ever visited an African country? The difference in culture is way more than the difference between Minnesotans and New Yorkers. Please get your facts straight, African cultures are far from homogenous and no the difference isn't as a result of the white man's conquer and rule. Man, falsifying things make sick.

In Kenya do they shit out of their feet? Do they have an three arms? Do they eat dirt and throw away food?

Whatever differences they have they are superficial at best.

I am even starting to think that the Kenyan men must get pregnant the way you talk as if the differences are so much.

Babyosisi,

Africa like Nigeria has it's rich and poor. Kenya too. Your still Africans.

I do not have to become a lesbian or a drug addict or a socialite or a rockefeller to say something about any of these things. This is the purpose of education to teach you about things that you may never experience personally.

Why even believe that Africa is a place or that it really exist at all, if experiencing it is the only way to validate the ideas of it?

Why did you believe that America existed? Because you believed what you heard.

That is how we all learn. If it is false we may find out later, if it is true we may find out later but we don't need to experience it to discuss it.