₦airaland Forum

Err, less trolling back and forth please :/

I think we are dancing around in circles a bit. Here is what we know:

1) The $4.2 billion in subsidies is not the most efficient way to address whatever need it is meant to achieve (I guess helping out poor people.) There has to be at least one scheme on earth that achieves whatever goal this subsidy has more efficiently.

Here is what we don't know:
2) Is it possible realistically for the Nigerian FG to choose and implement one of those schemes? Again, not necessarily in a corruption-free way, but with more actual "bang for the buck" than (1)?

Katsumoto I guess believes the answer to (2) is no, it cannot. He think either a poor scheme will be chosen, or whatever scheme chosen will cause less value to be delivered than (1) due to corruption (though we must keep in mind that corruption already exists in (1)). Thus, to him, there is more of an economic impact in just keeping the subsidy than trying something new.

However, he has this belief without any sort of data about how effective (1) is (how much of this $4.2 billion is actually reaching the poor, if this is the goal?), and what exactly the replacement (2) is.

In my opinion, this attitude is wayyy too pessimistic. If this inefficient subsidy is the preferred way for Nigeria to spend $4.2 billion/year, then Nigeria is probably doomed.

That Northern Nigerian female literacy rate scares the hell out of me. Extremely depressing

The GDP per capita between the northern and southern parts of the country has widened, with a recent report showing that the GDP per capita in the south is twice that of the north.

The GDP per capita is the GDP (total income) of a country, divided by its population. It shows how much money people earn on average. So GDP is the dollar value of all goods and services produced within a country, state or city's borders in a given year, then divided by the population in a given year.

In what can be described as a clinical post-mortem of the recent post election violence that swept through the states in the north, foremost economic analyst and managing director, Financial Derivatives Nigeria Limited, Mr. Bismark Rewane said the high poverty level in the north as well as growing economic inequality should be blamed for the recurring sin assembly of violence.

Speaking at the executive monthly breakfast meeting of the Lagos Business School recently, Rewane said that the degree of the pervading inequality is underscored by the existing GDP per capita for each of the regions in the country.

Noting that the GDP per capita in the south is twice that of the north, Rewane said the alignment of the political and economic map is
needed to bring stability.
The figures which were contained in the May edition of the monthly economic presentation at the tertiary institution, showed that while
the GDP per capita in the north stood at $718 that of the south-west was $1,436 while that of the south-south and south-east stood at
$2,010 and $933 respectively.
The wide disparity between the figures in the different zones is said to be a great factor in the disposition of the large number of those
living below the poverty line to violent protests and the attendant destruction of lives and property.
Lamenting the inequality in the distribution of wealth in the country, Rewane noted that existing social stratification in the country is
brewing animosity among the various classes. “With a gini-coefficient of 43, Nigeria is stratified both by class and by regions,” he said.

Gini-coefficient is a measure of the inequality of a distribution. It is commonly used as a measure of inequality of income or wealth.
Insisting that the gap between the rich and the poor is widening on a daily basis, he stated: “In Nigeria, the ratio of the rich to the poor
is 15:1. The top 20 per cent in Nigeria get 15 times more of the income than the bottom 20 per cent.”

He advised the government to urgently fight the twin-problem of poverty and inequality that has the potential to make the northern
part of the country a hotbed of violence.
Rewaned added that the onus lies on President Goodluck Jonathan to initiate programmes that will not only improve the standards of living in the north but also address other fundamental issues that usually push the downtrodden in the area to violence.
Rewane said Nigerians would evaluate the performance of President Jonathan's administration by his economic performance, stressing that “the president knows that his political survival and legacy depends on his economic performance.”
Underpinning the urgency of the situation, Rewane called on the president to swing into action by initiating programmes to tackle the
problem in a holistic manner.

“He needs to grow the economy and carry the north along. High income inequality is a recipe for political instability and needs to be
addressed,” he stated.

Quoting a March 2011 UNESCO report, Rewane noted that northern Nigerian women rank lowest in literacy levels in the world.
To address these lapses, he stressed the need for President Jonathan to raise a team to increase national productivity and manage resources efficiently.
Economy affairs commentators have at various other forums canvassed the need to urgently tackle the problem of street urchins, called almajiris in the northern part of the country.

The army of unemployed, uneducated and poverty-stricken youths in many states in the north has been used at various times to foment trouble by some misguided leaders in the area.

Figures from the National Bureau of Statistics on the spread and trend of poverty in Nigeria show a continuous increase in the size and depth of poverty in the north.

According to another economist, Martin Oluba, “A historical movement in the spread of the poverty rate for the years 1980 to 2004 shows a continuously increasing trend for the north: 35.1% (1980), 52.60% (1981), 45.50% (1982), 70.67% (1983) and 70.13% (2004),” Corresponding distribution in the south during same period is as follows: 9.83%, 38.23%, 41.63%, 57.5% and 34.93% respectively.

According to the analyst, who quoted the figures in a recent publication, there is no reason to believe that this trend would have
changed since 2004.


http://www.thisdaylive.com/articles/income-disparity-between-north-and-south-widens/91392/

Nice article by Jarus.

Hopefully he'll be part of the solution in Kwara.

By Idris Akinbajo
May 15, 2011 02:31AM

Although the board of the National Commission for Nomadic Education has clearly established that the agency's top management, led by the executive secretary, Nafisatu Mohammed, plundered about N1 billion MDGs (Millennium Development Goal) grant which was meant to provide education for impoverished nomadic communities in the country, NEXT can reveal today that there is a high-level scheme within government circles to shield Mrs Nafisatu and her colleagues from prosecution.

As things stand, the indicted government officials, the list of which includes Jacs Nkume, the commission's acting deputy director, administration and Modibbo Tahir, the chief engineer, might simply walk away with a slap on the wrist for betraying public trust, making nomads lose appetite for education and setting Nigeria back in its quest to achieve goal two of the MDG, which aims to make countries around the world attain universal basic education for their citizens by the year 2015.

The investigative committee set up by the board to probe the finances of the commission had recommended the removal of the indicted officials, as well as their prosecution by the Economic and Financial Crimes Commission (EFCC) or the Independent Corrupt Practices and Other Related Offences Commission (ICPC).

Following the release of the committee's damning report, which NEXT extensively reported last week, the minister of state for education, Kenneth Gbagi, placed Mrs Mohammed on suspension.

He, however, left the other indicted officials untouched.


See the rest here: http://234next.com/csp/cms/sites/Next/Home/5700160-146/officials_cover_up_corruption_at_nomadic.csp

It appears that my question will never be answered. Still trying to figure out how it makes sense to give away the cow and then negotiate the price of it after the buyer has already eaten it.

Again, was there an agreement on the table or something? If not, how do you give away support w/o asking for something very specific in return? If they gave away the cow w/o asking for something back, then whose fault is that?

edit: typo

What I don't understand about all of this. . . did your leaders not have a deal on the table before they decided to support GEJ?

From what I'm hearing, it looks like the ACN got some sort of agreement. Why didn't your leaders do the same?

How do you give away something valuable w/o negotiating first?

@Katsumoto: I don't see how agriculture alone can be the future. Yorubaland has a lot of people. Agric alone will not provide enough high-quality jobs. We will need manufacturing to provide those jobs to uplift people out of poverty and create a decent nation.

Or you don't think industry will be feasible in the hinterland even if transportation and electricity are functional? Those are the two primary impediments to competitiveness, right?

But fears are that the demand for Senate President by the Southeast may be bungled following agitations by a group known as Southeast Integrity Forum led by a chieftain of PDP, Ngozi Agudosi who contended that the posts of Secretary to the Government of the Federation and that of Deputy Senate President are the best offer for the zone. “The zoning is not against the Southeast. Those against the arrangement do not have interest of the Southeast at heart. We have had five Senate Presidents from our zone and what did they attract for our people? Let one of them come out and tell us what they achieved for Ndigbo while they were in office. We had three National Chairmen of PDP, what did they achieve?

“The choice of Senate President is just to enhance private or personal ambition. If Mr. President says SGF; it is an honour done to the Southeast and for the first time in the history of Nigeria that Ndigbo is going to hold that position. So we urge Senator Ike Ekweremadu to brace up and take up the post of Deputy Senate President.”

This made me laugh for some reason. I've never heard of this "Southeast Integrity Forum" before. Is it actually a prominent body? Or just a couple dudes giving their little club a fancy title?

Princek12:
it is people like Jenifa who refer to immigrants as first-generation immigrants. Although it is a common mistake, it is not the proper use. in immigration law, an immigrant is different from a first-generation immigrant.

Right, but not everyone here knows immigration law, nor did we agree to use immigration law terminology before beginning. So it wasn't clear that those terms and definitions are the ones we have to be using.

Use a Wiki source as support for a scholarly article and watch your article get rejected, or watch the author being subject to ridicule. Wiki articles are all too often unreliable

Agreed. But I think in casual discussions, it is not terrible. None of us are writing papers here really. Just casual conversation. Also, Wiki articles often have references themselves. So if a Wiki article is well-written and references legit material from say a gov't agency, I have no problem linking to it in a conversation to support my argument.

ThiefOfHearts:
'

How does that concern you?

I don't ever remember claiming it did. Nor do I see how that is relevant to me asking the question.

Looks like "first-generation immigrant" can be used to refer to both:

The term first-generation [citizen of a country], e.g., "first-generation Ruritanian[1]" may have either of two different meanings[2][3]:
A citizen of the country who is a naturalized immigrant.
or
A citizen whose parents are naturalized immigrants.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigrant_generations

Jenifa, the article you linked to doesn't support your interpretation alone. There are two different meanings.

How much money does your average black woman spend a month on her hair, do you think? Or per year, if that # is easier to guesstimate.

@tpia: Who is that? She is very cute

Anyway, with all of this said. . . nappy head or not, perm/extension or not, African women are sexy as heck to me. I'm not one of those dudes obsessed with redbones

[quote author=Jenifa_ link=topic=665782.msg8323326#msg8323326 date=1305427638]the black girl with the very long hair is usually the exception not the rule.[/quote]Exactly. Most of the black women I know with very long hair have some sort of European ancestry in them. My aunt for example, one of her grandparents (great-grandparents?) was some white dude from Portugal

kandiikane:
@ekt,lol, Whuuuuuuuuut!! I am full black

No, she is not.

Alright, I wasn't sure.

[quote author=Jenifa_ link=topic=665782.msg8323315#msg8323315 date=1305427382]no it's not limited to mixed-race women. ethiopians have it too   joking[/quote]I meant West Africans, Central Africans, Southern African. Ethiopians, Eritreans, Somalis, I'm not really considering them for the purposes of this thread. They don't look the same as the rest of Africans imo

yea no it's not limited to mixed women.  but just not very common.

ex. ogugua88 has "good hair." you can tell that her non-straightened natural hair is not extremely nappy.
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?action=profile;u=560561

I see. So how do you know her non-straightened hair isn't nappy? Like, what would it look like if her natural hair were nappy?

@kandiikane: You are mixed-race, aren't you? Have some white or middle eastern ancestry?

From what I've seen, Jenifa_ is mostly right

[quote author=Jenifa_ link=topic=665782.msg8323264#msg8323264 date=1305426547]so why would you assume differently for women?  

those hair pictures up there are nice but   not a true representation of black women's natural hair.
instead, picture nigerian deeper life women (their religion bans them from relaxing or using extensions).[/quote]I don't know what deeper life women look like. Anyway I have a sense of what you mean. I guess it explains why most black women perm, straighten, etc.

[quote author=Jenifa_ link=topic=665782.msg8323277#msg8323277 date=1305426722]ok I don't want to give you the wrong idea.  there are many women with "nice hair texture" or relaxed hair who also wear weaves. kandikane has corrected me on that. it[/quote]Heh. BTW, is "nice hair texture" limited to just mixed-race women? Or are there pure African women with it?

but my point really is that most of these guys badmouthing a woman with weaves won't go near her natural hair. lol

Hehe. I avoid bad weaves like the plague And certain types of natural really are also a turnoff.

^--That is exactly the same thing I've been saying in this thread. But everyone shouted it down as me not understanding Nigeria, not having lived there long enough, etc, etc. As if Nigeria is some magical place where the laws of economics and human nature don't apply 

Anyway, I'm mostly done with this thread. . . not really easy to get people to change their minds about certain beliefs

Black woman community is pretty complicated, I guess

Some subtle stuff going on that I didn't quite pick up on before today. . .

[quote author=Jenifa_ link=topic=665782.msg8323239#msg8323239 date=1305425968]well, the women who wear extensions and weaves are typically those whose hair cannot achieve that texture naturally (called "good hair" in the black community).[/quote]Hrm, I see

ex. do you think your own hair will look like that if you grow it out?

Nope, i'm not mixed race. . . just a pure African dude. My hair when grown out is nappy as heck, and needs relaxer to straighten out. I had cornrows once, but had to use a bit of relaxer first to get something that could be braided without pain

In fact my girls hair looks like the women at the top left of the above image

[quote author=Jenifa_ link=topic=665782.msg8323215#msg8323215 date=1305425434]I don't think I need to.[/quote]OK, no problem.

IMO when many guys talk about natural hair, they are referring to a mixed race hair. not necessarily natural hair like the one that grows from the top of their own head.

Here is what I get when I google "natural hair":
https://i54.tinypic.com/2exufzo.png

Most of those look pretty good to me.