₦airaland Forum

Authorities have seized the tusks of 58 elephants, a ton of ivory, after sniffer dogs led investigators to containers at the country’s main airport that were bound for Nigeria, officials said Friday. No arrests were made, the police said, and it was not immediately clear why the ivory was being transported to Nigeria; the most common destination for smuggled ivory is Asia. Patrick Omondi, an expert on elephants at the Kenya Wildlife Service, said ivory smuggling had increased since the 2007 temporary lifting of a ban by the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species. It allowed a one-time sale by countries that had stockpiles of ivory from elephants that had died naturally or problem elephants killed by wildlife officials.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/07/world/africa/07briefs-ART-Kenya.html

Congratulations to Imo Igbos.

@ezeagu: I just don't like the irrelevant tangents (e.g., population density of the SE? I mean, wtf does that have to do with what is being discussed?) you keep bringing up, I think they are wasting time and muddying what should be kind of a simple and clear question.

Anyway, I've convinced myself a bit more that what I said is true. That is enough for me; I'm not necessarily interested in convincing you. We can leave it at that.

I'm going to be sad when Fashola's tenure ends.

Can we merge the SW zone into one state, have some sort of local British parlimentary style system and keep Fashola for longer (subject to the vote of the parliamentarians, I guess), and have him govern the SW region as a whole?  

I want projects in my state too. . .

Bleh. Oh well, ignore my mad ramblings

This isn't an either/or sort of proposition. There are several transportation-oriented projects in various stages that'll help with traffic in Lagos generally and Lekki specifically (BRT, light rail, this Lekki-Ikoyi bridge, Lekki toll road, etc all to help with traffic.)

There are many things happening simultaneously.

The guy is basically building mini-Dubai in Lekki, with this Lekki FTZ.

MMIA is not going to cut it.

If Dubai is any indication of how things will end up, we'll be getting lots of flights into Lekki from all over Africa. Lekki airport may end up becoming a regional or international hub. This 5 million/year probably isn't an unreasonable figure. I doubt he'd have gotten private capital to invest in the airport if it were not feasible.

^-- We will have to agree to disagree.

I welcome this FTZ with open arms.

MzDarkSkin:
[color=#0066ff]Ppl like her should be our
role models not video vixens and rapper groupies.   [/color]

You disapprove of "shake dat azz ho"? 

^-- You don't get it I guess. Wikipedia "demand curves" if you've not heard of the concept before. . . has absolutely nothing to do with monopoly.

Anyway, regarding monopolies, which business in Nigeria do Igbos have a monopoly on?

I'm actually hunting for business ideas when I return to Nigeria. . . let me know which ones they are so I can know which ones to target for breaking.

mbatuku1:
I still dont see how getting that 10% off your folks. That's not a hard thing to do, since I'm some sort of monopoly. I'll simply increase my prices to compensate for the cut in my profit. I think in the end, you'll still feel the brunt.

Tribalism cuts both ways, I could also have much more high prices for Yorubas, they're quite easy to spot out.

Yeah, we'll both get our hands dirty

No, you don't have a monopoly. There are always substitutes, alternatives. The other dude down the street selling the same thing. Etc.

BTW, this has nothing to do with monopoly. . . will likely get a new demand regardless. Just a function of how much people are willing to buy at a certain price.

Anyway, let us both get our hands dirty. I've no problem with that. May the better man win.

zstranger: Remember the Northern entrepreneurs in Canada from a few days ago? You'd imagine that their kids could be of the same caliber.

@Amaka: People have to do what is best for their own regions, right? If Policy A helps someone's homeland, a person will be for it. If Policy A hurts them in someone else's homeland, they'll be against it while in that foreign land. It might be hypocritical, but probably 99% of humans will behave in this hypocritical way, right?

mbatuku1:
@ ekt bear

Like I pointed out earlier, it doesn't matter if you tax them heavily. In the end, they shift the burden of taxation even on the Yoruba populace. Except you have your folks in the same line of business who wouldn't be affected by the high taxation. But you'll have to do such favoritism at the risk of a glaring accusation of tribalism and public disapproval.

Does taxation work like that? I don't think it does. If I decide to take 10% of your profits, then you cannot just make up the money by raising prices. . . . you get a new point on the demand curve. So you can shift some of the loss, but not all of it (unless I'm misunderstanding things.)

And if this 10% cut is used to benefit primarily the masses, then they come out ahead overall.

Regarding favoritism, there are ways to do it w/o getting your hands dirty. Use your imagination.

THE AMAKA:
I'm not the one here shouting about who should go back to their land and develop this, that, and the other. is it not so? as i said earlier, I'm talking to those specific people.

I don't think anyone here has said that anyone else should leave the SW. I don't mind people coming. . . so long as they pay their taxes/fees/etc. Truth be told, it can be a win-win situation, assuming that those things are paid.

This doesn't have to be a zero-sum thing. . . both sides can come out winners.

and did i flee? NOPE. I was born here, so nice try 

What of your parents, who chose to leave? Anyway, if you want to use "wasn't in control of where I grew up", then I can use the same excuse (though I was born in naija).

I'm talking about the ones that were not there when America was building itself up, but now they wanna run to developed nations without developing their own?

Well, the us isn't done growing. It is still improving in different areas. Some of us here are helping to make it a better place (in small ways, at least). . . so you cannot act like we are leaving it the same way we found it.

yet, they wanna shout that others should go back to their area, when they themselves are not in Nigeria nor developing their own areas, so why the noise? it just makes me laugh, for real. 

Trust me, I'll return as soon as I can. But I don't think anyone will advise you to rush back w/o preparing (finishing your degree, saving up some capital, etc.)

Amaka, haven't you fled naija too? So who are you to criticize anyone else? 

A bit hypocritical, no?

Regarding "reaping what you did not sow", is the US a tax-free country?

What is given for free here in America?

zstranger:
I dont buy the idea that Ibos are more business savvy than the rest, the facts just dont back it up.

Who knows, maybe they are. But I don't really care. . . be as business savvy as you like. But I'll take my cut if you operate in my homeland through taxes.

Or is your business savvy reason why I shouldn't charge you? Will I let even a Jew (pardon the political incorrectness) operate in my land tax-free?

Hell no

^-- lol. Man hopefully the ACN has a stable of good governor candidates already in the pipeline so Ekiti State can be on auto-drive by then. No need for me to do that stuff if there are already good guys in place. Many ways to improve Yorubaland w/o being a politician.

seanet02:
There is a lazy guy here on nl. Spending over half of his day here yet claims he hardly finds time to learn something very important to what he love all his life. I dunno get that type of mentality.

Relax. I post too much on NL yes, but that doesn't mean I'm neglecting other aspects of my life right now. Regarding the "very important" thing, it'll be easier to master once I go back to naija.

Relax, all is well.

ADint:
4. Permission to sell 100% of manufactured assembled of imported goods into the domestic Nigeria market. When selling into the domestic market, the amount of import duty on goods manufactured in the Free Trade Zone is calculated only on the basis of the value of the raw materials or components used in assembly, not on the finished products;

Thanks. So exporting from Lekki into Nigeria, you'll pay duties. Just less.

Makes sense that they'd not allow importing from Lekki into Nigeria for free.

mbatuku1:
While I quite agree with (A) above, I dont not think (B) holds true, since most SE indigenes in the SW are largely into small scale privately-owned businesses(no data, but from my personal experience and public knowledge).

Well, if you agree with (A), then I think that economists would agree with (B) (click those links I posted.) With no offense intended, that is enough for me.

If the SW is poor, that must be as a result of complacency or some sort of indolence on the part.

Employment and poverty rates don't necessary mean "poor" (as in low GDP, or low GDP/capita). Just very unequal distribution of wealth.

Overall point is that lower unemployment rates in the SE (at least from what I saw in Anambra at this bottom of this post here: https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-660082.96.html#msg8273307) may be a sign of extra industriousness of the Anambrarians. . . but also being able to export excess population to other lands. I sure as hell know I'd be able to get unemployment rates in the SW down to very low #s if I my neighbor was say Canada or something, and they allowed the SW to go there without restrictions.

Anyways, I don't mind the immigration, so long as there is heavy taxation of immigrants, and not much public funding being used on them. The benefits arguably outweigh the negatives (at least from what vaguely remember some folks saying about immigration to the US from say Mexico. Dunno if it would hold in Nigeria and the SW zone, but I suspect it does. So long as they pay taxes/fees/etc.)

I don't follow your reasoning.

I mean, given that (A) there are more SE indigenes in the SW than there are SW indigenes in the SE doesn't it follow that (B) the SWs employment rates are being hurt the most by migration?

If so, then what does the population of the states in the SW versus SE have to do with emigration from each zone? How is it relevant?

edit: typos

[quote author=Kilode?! link=topic=661053.msg8273657#msg8273657 date=1304758908]The differences between those two graphs actually got me ROFL, Italy looks sad

Let's not get carried away though, they still have these: http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/global500/2010/countries/Italy.html

The faith we have in our ability to persevere and adapt is legendary.

I agree though, we should not slow down and sulk because we lost some ground, that will only keep us further behind. Anyway, I wish us luck, strength and Godspeed.[/quote]Sure. But if Nigeria is well-run and we are able to keep bad leaders out (like these dull Yara'Adua types), then Nigeria will continue to grow and prosper. And eventually catch up.

6% GDP growth rate over the next 50 years isn't impossible (well, might be, but let's pretend it isn't ) If Italy is doing 1% over that time period. . . .then our GDP inceases by a factor of 18.4, Italy's by only 1.64

Exponential growth is a powerful thing

Anyway, in the long run, things will work out. . . we'll catch up (or at least close enough.) At least, assuming we can avoid the terrible leadership that has plagued Nigeria in the past.

[quote author=Kilode?! link=topic=661053.msg8273519#msg8273519 date=1304756862]Our competitors ain't silly though. I don't bet on them slowing down to give us a chance to catch up and blend in.[/quote]They don't have a choice in the matter, really. Here is a plot of the GDP growth rate of Italy:
http://www.google.com/publicdata?ds=wb-wdi&met=ny_gdp_mktp_kd_zg&idim=country:ITA&dl=en&hl=en&q=gdp+growth+rate+of+italy

Here is one of Nigeria:
http://www.google.com/publicdata?ds=wb-wdi&met=ny_gdp_mktp_kd_zg&idim=country:NGA&dl=en&hl=en&q=gdp+growth+rate+of+nigeria

Eventually, we will catch up. Might be 500 years from now. . . but that is fine by me 

If by modernizing now I can speed up the process for my descendants and reduce it from 500 years to 200, I'll definitely go ahead and do whatever it takes.

Anyway, this discussion is getting long-winded and too circular.

Here is what I believe:
1) High outmigration out of SE zone.
2) Above decreases unemployment and thus poverty rates in the SE zone (relative to what it'd otherwise be if those people couldn't leave.)
3) Similarly, SW zone seens lots of immigrants from other zones.
4) This increase unemployment and thus poverty rates in that zone.

If you don't agree, fine, no wahala. But most of this other stuff you are talking about or bringing up doesn't disprove this guess about how things work. For all I know, this isn't how things work. But the stuff you are talking about isn't really relevant.


EDIT: Alright, looks like my intuition might not be completely off the mark here:
1. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/04/14/AR2006041401686.html
2. http://www.cato.org/pubs/policy_report/pr-imnative.html

zstranger:
Who are these ediots fooling.

Murtala barely handles 5 million a year. WHere are these 5 million travelers coming from? Buncha reetards

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_busiest_airports_in_Africa

Perhaps MMIA is at capacity, or close? I dunno. . . I'd be hesitant to call Lagos State id1ots. . . they've not really made too many mistakes so far, imo. Let's at least see their reasoning and projections before saying it isn't viable.

THE AMAKA:
its for everyone in general. well at least everyone screaming about developing one's land/ going back to one's land, yet they are living in America or Europe. quite hypocritical to say the least.

Err. . . guess isn't directed at me, then.

ezeagu:
It's hard to say, but you know there's massive emigration some how, enough to take away enough jobs somehow?

Wth? You DON'T think that there is massive emigration out of the SE zone, relative to other zones in Nigeria? Suppose we ranked zones by the fraction of the indigenes who live outside of the zone. Which zone do you think will be at the top of the list? And do you think that the gap between it and #2, #3, etc will be high or low?

So in 2006 there were around 24 million people living in Abia, Anambra, Ebonyi, Enugu and Imo according to the Federal Government, if you want to say that there's massive emigration, then how many are you saying are in the south west? You've got yourself in a hole here. Either south eastern migration has nothing to do with poverty rates, or the whole of the south west is at least 10% native south eastern. Besides that, the population gap between the south east and south west isn't much, even when putting the Lagos population as high as 20 million. On top of that, considering the population densities shown on that map (which shows that the south east was underestimated in the census which says that Abia and Ekiti have the same number of people), your point still doesn't explain the difference in poverty rates.

1. Sorrry, where is this "hole"?
2. True population gap is huge, official might be less so.
3. Err, high pop density of SE zone doesn't mean higher population. SE zone has high pop density. . . but is about the size of Oyo State in land mass. SW zone is 76k square km or so, SE zone is about 29k square km. Higher pop density doesn't mean higher population.

By regions:
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-371485.0.html

2004:
http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:wgJfRD3S_0QJ:www.oerafrica.org/ResourceDownload.aspx?assetid%3D969%26userid%3D-1+poverty+rate+nigeria+south+east+south+west+north+west&hl=en&gl=uk&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESgMqrnvyzigPMw7ADJUAAX9UBCi9Mis6NmqhlNFCX96QXgaQ9GxeFjj4EtXhx3yDI0puOMh7Py8Duz1yy6inJvQuMchj1Yq4uyfnVXtPtrKlRx2yhXSMD4XxUcclS7WUg89Rf3Z&sig=AHIEtbRRm-XXz0Vf9-3sPoBMW2yrZfFsnQ&pli=1

I sort of wanted state data for a reason. I cannot even remember now why I even asked you for this anymore. . . probably something about the states with the most outmigration in the SE probably having some of the lower poverty rates, and something similar in the SW. I'd imagine lowish poverty rates in say Oyo and Ogun, but high in Lagos. Unfortunately, this was the best I could find as far as state-by-state goes:

This is in contrast with the lowest incidences which are all in the southern states with Bayelsa reportedly having the best comparative records of 20 per cent, Anambra, 20.1 per cent, Abia, 22.3 per cent ; Oyo, 24.1 per cent; Imo, 27.4 per cent; Rivers, 29.1 per cent ; Enugu, 31.1 per cent ; Ogun, 31.7per cent ; Osun, 32 per cent and Edo, 33.1 percent.

http://nigeriavillagesquare.com/forum/main-square/21642-bayelsa-anambra-abia-3-states-least-affected-poverty.html

Who exactly are you talking to? If to me, then let me know. Otherwise I'll let whoever you are talking to respond.