₦airaland Forum

liquid7:
And how is building your own power plant cheap enough to compete with anyone in the world?Cheaper then getting off the grid?please.if it was all companies around the world would have build their own power generators or you think they been silly for all this years.Russia even offered some companies free electricity for 2 years for building factories in their country .They can do that because they got abundant energy sources and good distrubution.

Gas prices in Nigeria are pretty cheap. I think the guy at Shell I spoke to on the phone said like $5.66 per 1000 Scf. 200 Scf per day is enough to power a 1MW natural gas generator like the one I linked to (according to him.) That is under 5 cents per kWh (roughly 4.7 cents, if my math is correct.) This is enough to compete with most people in the world.

Anyway, it isn't as bad as you make it out, for wealthy businessmen/investors. Nigeria is a ripe market.

liquid7:
You are actually making my point.Which international multi billion $$ company will bother to come to nigeria when they have to invest in their own power generating plants  when they can simply do it in Ghana and such and get their power supply directly from the grid?
Those that are in nigeria have mostly been there since the 70s and 80s .New investment money will look for a country that has infrastructures already in place for them espically in this current recession.

It doesn't cost that much money. There are natural gas generators you can buy (see this company for example: http://www.generac.com/Industrial/). Doesn't cost that much for a serious businessman, let alone a major corporation.

[quote author=X-factoria link=topic=661677.msg8283916#msg8283916 date=1304929543]However, they have an ugly side in the way they frustrate businesses for other non-Igbos in Abuja. They are incredibly pathetic in the way they collectively kill other people's business. They are damn too aggressive and would stop at nothing to take anybody out.[/quote]Elaborate?

liquid7:
Same goes for electricity.Ever heard of a Ford plant running generators?No its way too expensive .If anything they try find a country which has cheaper electricity cost ,talk less of a country with regular  electricity outrage and forced to use generators.

I don't think any of these new major guys investing in manufacturing in Lagos/Ogun area are using diesel to generate electricity.

Take a look at how Nestle is doing it for example:

To further underline its strong commitment to Nigerian economy, Osunkeye said since 2009, Nestle has invested N42 billion in massive infrastructural upgrades at Agbara factory, adding that one of the significant infrastructural upgrades in the actory was the Tri-generation Power Plant.

The new facility would ensure efficient use of energy in the firm’s manufacturing operations.

The new plant will generate power, produce chilled water and hot water, increase energy efficiency from 42 to 74 per cent and reduce Co2 emissions by 5,000 tonnes per year.

http://www.compassnewspaper.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=5127:-nestle-records-n827b-turnover-opens-n36b-tri-generation-plant&catid=37:general-news&Itemid=607

Manufacturing firms are just generating their own electricity from natural gas. This is cheaper than diesel. . . and cheap enough to compete with anyone in the world.

divorce

^-- Hehe. I was just messing with you Kobo, relax Just a playful jab.

Kobojunkie would have opposed Jakande's metroline too In fact, for all we know she was one of Buhari's loyalists who rooted for it be canceled 

Imagine what Lagos would look like today if that project had happened? How much stronger would Lagos be?

I am glad Lagos State's government doesn't lack foresight.

^--Wasn't your fault, was the fault of the PM News writer.

Yep, been reading The Economist for a while now. Paul Krugman's writings (on the New York Times) are also really good too.

Both of them do a good job of explaining economic/business ideas to laypersons like myself.

Heh.

Regarding Ashkenazi lineage, I don't have to be related to someone to learn from what he is doing.

A short snippet on the history of algebra:

While the word algebra comes from the Arabic language (al-jabr, الجبر literally, restoration) and much of its methods from Arabic/Islamic mathematics, its roots can be traced to earlier traditions, most notably ancient Indian mathematics, which had a direct influence on Muhammad ibn Mūsā al-Khwārizmī (c. 780–850). He learned Indian mathematics and introduced it to the Muslim world through his famous arithmetic text, Book on Addition and Subtraction after the Method of the Indians.[3][4] He later wrote The Compendious Book on Calculation by Completion and Balancing, which established algebra as a mathematical discipline that is independent of geometry and arithmetic.[5]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algebra

Or maybe the English who eventually used algebra have secret Arab/Greek/Egyptian/Chinese/Indian ancestry, also by way of Onitsha 

Stubbornness and unwillingness to learn from the good that others are doing (which they even didn't invent themselves, but borrowed/stole from others) is a terrible disease. Smh. May God keep this disease away from Yorubaland.

Anyway, we can leave it at that. . . you don't seem to be getting my point.

[quote author=aloy-emeka link=topic=661845.msg8283199#msg8283199 date=1304914552]You just mentioned the two major competitors in that area. Which major competitor is that close to Lagos?[/quote]My real point is that if someone wants to build an airport and FTZ in the West Africa, Central Africa region to compete with that of Lekki, they'll have a difficult time (assuming we get there first, that is.)

Lekki and Lagos State have too many advantages relative to other locations.

[quote author=aloy-emeka link=topic=661845.msg8283194#msg8283194 date=1304914354]Because Nigeria is the only place to invest and  do business abi?. They will just leave like other companies who moved to Ghana from Nigeria lately.[/quote]Nigeria is a much larger market than Ghana. Heck, even Lagos State is nearly as populated as all of Ghana. So why would anyone choose Ghana over Lagos, all other things equal?

@isale_gan2:

And of course these are traits that are unique to the African man?  When others go mano a mano, they're politically astute.  Do you want to do away with the Primary/nominating system, for example,as it exists in a state like Illinois.  I use that example seeing as the USA can do no wrong, and we'd be in paradise on earth if we just copied them from dusk till dawn.

Who said Africans were uniquely evil, or something? Who said the US can do no wrong? That I don't believe in hereditary power doesn't imply those things.

You do not cede power to anyone.  You fight till you're bone-weary and then you fight some more.  Like the way Al Gore went after the results after Bush said he was President.  (I'm still on the USA example, so you should be pleased.  I'll bring in the Europeans in a minute.  )

It isn't an issue of ceding power. But instead focusing on the big picture. Hurrah, the Alaafin is now superior! Or the Ooni has prevailed. Well, who gives a crap? How does that butter anyone's bread?

Dude, I can't talk to you.  That's all your culture is to you?  When you read about Yoruba history, that's what stands out?

Is there any chance you can stop assuming so much? Who told you that is all I take from Yoruba culture?  You need to calm down and stop with this aggrieved agenda of yours.

You're looking at it in hindsight.  It's like internalised racism, if you ask me.  The Europeans were able to "conquer" us, that means they're better than us, right?  It's a common sentiment amongst people.  You're not alone.  So, in any battle, whoever wins is the moral victor, in your eyes?  If a man with a gun defeats a man with a boxing glove, the armed man is worthy of deification?  You know, it's not as if the Europeans consolidated under one king either.  France, England, Belgium, Russia, and many more retained their monarchy as well.

1. Yes, definitely it is hindsight.
2. Who said the Euros were better because they conquered us  Wtf? Were they better than the isolated Native Americans too who they conquered? Might doesn't make right. . . I'm just saying, if Event X happened, then we'd be better off now. There is no morality involved in what I'm saying.

A military dictator does not have a history connected to the land and the people.  He's simply in control due to suppression of the people.  You do know that the Yoruba kingdoms had their own way of dealing with an out-of-control king as well.  For example, a king that is adjudged to have lost the support of the people/aristocracy and has to commit suicide is often strangled by the Olori and his other wives.  Just had to put it in there - the wives had to be formidable too. lol

A military dictator who eventually hands off to his son will eventually also have a connection to the land and the people. No real difference between him and a king. In fact, many royal families today were founded by warlords.

Are you as offended by that as you are by the Yoruba Obas?   
. . .
. . .
Do you see that these people are not any better than the Yoruba politicians/monarchs you are so willing to dismiss.  Will you proclaim with all your might that the aforementioned American families desist from aspiring to become a de facto monarchy, just as you scoff at your own more legitimate and culturally relevant one?

Yes. I condemn the Clintons, Bushes, and Kennedy's perpetuating their political power, just as I condemn the obas who do the same. Custodian of culture is fine, political influence is not.

I understand your pronouncements are borne out of an unfortunate subliminal belief that White is Right, but I am convinced that this mentality of yours will evolve with time and life experiences.

Heh. If there were an ethnicity other than my own that I esteem, it would be the Jews, not white people Jews I have a lot of respect and admiration for (at least in certain areas.) White people? Not so much.

White people are fine, but I don't think their culture is superior. Every culture has good and bad parts to it. My goal is hopefully to add the best from all cultures to my own.

zstranger:
^^^

http://www.africanloft.com/the-tinapa-tragedy/

That article alludes to a customs issue. You can google around and read up on it, but I think in a nutshell, finished goods were being imported and sold w/o paying taxes/import duties.

Perhaps when Tinapa (or I guess the FTZ there) was conceived, they had the idea that they'd be able to get a special waiver. If you think about it though, it'd be pretty unfair if Tinapa gets to be the only place in Nigeria where you can import things from say China and sell 'em without any customs duties.

Lekki FTZ, the goal isn't to just import a bunch of stuff from China and sell it there. The goal is to import raw materials, and manufacture completed goods ourselves. From there, those goods can be either (A) exported outside of Nigeria (at no charge from customs) or (B) exported into naija (at a reduced fee.)

@zstranger:

But where do we get the money from for these public goods you want? Where is a state like Lagos that gets pretty small FG allocations relative to its population going to get the money for these public goods (healthcare, education) that you talk about?

The FG isn't going to give us the money. So we need to invite investors who want to do business in Lagos, and then tax the hell out of them!

That is where you get the cash from for public goods.

I don't even know how Tinapa is powered. Diesel generator? Something hideous/expensive like that?

From what I've read from all the major new Lagos projects (Eko Atlantic, the Lagos water project, Lekki FTZ), they'll be rolling out their own electricity (using the natural gas pipeline.)

Let us not compare Lekki FTZ to Tinapa, abeg.

zstranger:
You are over estimating the viability of this project. They said the same thing about Tinapa,  "located by the Calabar River, and contiguous with the Calabar Free Trade Zone, "  But Tinapa, instead of making money and attracting people, is a ghost town as we speak.

Tinapa was very poorly planned. It is the middle of nowhere, essentially. How does one GET to Tinapa? How does one transport goods to Tinapa? Up a tiny river that needs to be dredged. How do the major population centers in Nigeria get to Tinapa?

Do you not see how Tinapa and Lekki are different? We don't need to dredge a river before one can bring goods in and out of our FTZ. And we are located right in the most populous part of Nigeria.

An airport that would be a mojor hub in Africa? Like the rest of Africa do not have plans of their own. If Lagos thinks an Airport would bring in money, dont you think Accra would want to do same, Benin, Abidjan etc. I just dont believe in all these grand plans that are bound to fail, looking at examples from other places.

Everyone can choose to build their own airport. But the airlines will choose where to route their flights based on what makes the most business sense for them.

Wyoming can decide today it wants to become  major hub, and take the crown from Denver International Airport and Salt Lake City (the two giants in that area, if I'm not mistaken.)

But how does it convince the airlines to shift traffic?

For starters, where is the 5 million passengers coming from? From space? Even as it is right now, MMA is not the busiest airport in West-Africa, what makes you think that this so called Lekki Airport would magically, from no where, become a major hub in Africa?

I've not looked at their feasibility studies and projections. But that they are only investing $700 million and seem to have found investors willing to put up the cash for the rest is a telling sign of the feasibility of this venture.

^-- I mean, read this:

It was also gathered that outgoing senator, Olorunimbe Mamora and another Action Congress of Nigeria senator, Ganiyu Solomon are already lobbying their party senators and their leader, Bola Tinubu to support Mr. Mark. In exchange for their support, Mr Mark has reportedly promised the ACN senators some committee positions, the source further claimed.

http://234next.com/csp/cms/sites/Next/News/Metro/Politics/5698665-146/jonathan_approves_power_sharing_deal_.csp

Is this not the best of both worlds? How can anyone possibly criticize the ACN strategy? You get to have your cake and eat it. What could be sweeter than that? We lose nothing at the center, but will gain the benefits of having decentralized power.

The PDP is not a unified, centralized party. They have no ideology. It is just a loose alliance of thieves. Is it not better to establish your own identity and then horse-trade with the band of thieves as necessary?

zstranger:
You dont seem to get the point.
The point is that first things first, get the people educated, healthy, and able to do the job. Then Airport and other luxuries can come after.

If the life expectancy is where it is now, 47 and our schools arent being taken good care of, where are  we going to get the 21st century workers making enough money to actually use the airport and pay taxes.  Well, except if you plan to continue to import 'expats' from abroad  to do things that we should be able to do.

The $700 million will not solve education, healthcare, and provide employment for all of time. Population of Lagos is probably around 20 million. Is 35 bucks per person really going to buy you much education or healthcare?

However, investing $700 million as part of a PPP to build probably a mult-billion dollar airport that will be a major hub in Africa and service a major FTZ will create a longer-lasting impact.

We'll attract lots of investment, create jobs, and from the tax revenue from the investment and jobs, provide education and healthcare.

zstranger:
How do you make your case for all you listed above if you are shut out meetings where those decisions are taking place?

Lagos-Ibadan road has been neglected now for how many years, our present situation WRT to the present make up of the government would help or hinder our case?

Well, almost all of those items benefit Nigeria just as much as they do the SW. For example, the lack of roads/rail in the SW probably hurts the North far more than it hurts us. It essentially increases the distance between them and the rest of the world.

So I think you can get people to support many of these things purely for selfish interest. . . for the same reason I as an Ekiti man want good roads/rail linking me to Lagos, someone from Abuja, Kaduna, Kano, and Borno should want the same (at least, if they have sense in their heads.)

zstranger:
You seem to have a lot of confidence in Tinubu's ability.

Tinubu seems sharper than most other naija politicians I've seen. I cannot vouch for his honestly or lack of corruption though, lol. But there is something to be said for intelligence.

I wouldnt trust Bisi Akande though, the guy is just too stupiddd to know what is good for himself

Hehe. Why do you say this? I dunno much about the guy. Anyway, we have enough brains in the ACN and SW. . . main thing is to have an open environment for the best ideas to come forward.

^-- I'm just glad that Lagos State doesn't listen to what most of these bad belle people are saying. Probably wouldn't be the 5th largest economy in sub-Saharan Africa if you listen to what every tom, d1ck and harry told you about how to run things.

^-- ACN is probably working with the PDP one way or another. I suspect that they are playing a cloak and dagger sort of game. These rumors of the ministerial slots promised to Tinubu and the strange inaction of the ACN in the SW when GEJ ran for office I think tells a lot.

We won't be cheated out of what is our due at the federal level. . . ACN is playing the game more cleverly than we've played the game in the past, I think.

Zstranger, our priority list looks like this:

1. Power
2. Fix roads, rail
3. Agric
4. healthcare, potable water

In what way is not retaining the speakership/being strong in the PDP going to affect the above four items? How is the speakership comparable to ANY of the above?

How will not being in the PDP materially hurt us?

GEJ doesn't look like a vindictive sort of guy, who will sabatoge our progress. Besides, he has too much on his plate to deal with even if he did. . . OBJ, NW, NC, NE, SS, and SE riding his back.

zstranger:
Like what?

It'll take political capital to get the FG to fix or hand over the federal roads in the SW, for one.

zstranger:
But you have to look at it from PDP's point?
They have no returning PDP member with enough clout and rank to be the speaker, it seems

They have 3 returning PDP SW guys or so, I thought? Maybe 5

It would be stupiddd of the PDP to give that slot to the SW WRT how badly they did in 'our' region. And, in order to have an all inclusive government, they do need Yorubas, ACN so be specific, to meet them halfway.

Who said they did badly? Not for presidential

Sometimes, I wonder if we are not shooting ourselves in the leg with this bloc voting shitz

Developmental wise, it makes sense, but in the long run and WRT the presidency, we just might not be able to mount a formidable campaign for it. Even if the election were credible, getting others to vote for us would be herculean.

Based on what? Look, bleep the presidency, I want the SW to be strong. Allocations + good governance is good enough for that. Of what use is entering the PDP and your region stagnating?

I just dont know how we can do it. If we lose Ribadu, lose Ngige which is very likely, and have no non-Yoruba in ACN, we will be effectively sidelined to the amusement of our adversaries.

Who told you Ribadu and Ngige are leaving the ACN? At your latter statement, you are viewing things too much through a 1960s lens. We aren't back in the 1960s where the North+SS+SE can just form a government to our exclusion. At the very least, the eyes of the world are watching. And there are too many competing factions in the PDP anyways.

The point here is that novel ideas is not the forte of the Yorubas alone. We still need the money from the center and the trust of the others in this union. If the North and the Igbos and the SS take over the machinery of the PDP, it can only spell doom for us.

How will they deny us this money? Our federal allocations are intact, yes?

Anyway, I really dont trust the leadership of the ACN. They dont seem to know exactly how to move us forward.

We shall see. . . I think their strategy is sound.

^-- Why would the NC loses senate presidency to SE or NE? I think at this point, NC has to be to be the favorite for keeping it (which I guess helps SW retain speaker.)

I don't think anyone cares about or takes seriously your rejection of the SGF. I could be wrong though; lets see how things play out

Wouldn't be surprised if the ACN is rooting for PDP SW to lose the speakership. You can then use that loss to force GEJ to give you something that actually benefits the region.

I don't want the SW region to blow its political capital on things that aren't useful, that are more for show.

If OBJ can take retain it while only expending his own political capital, fine. But spending SW capital? Not a fan of that. We'll need it for other projects over the next few years. . .

yeah, he is a clever chap. . .amazing to me that one man is going to single-handedly defeat an entire region

Notice how the Northerners have introduced religion into it too. . . saying that having Christian president, christian senate pres, christian speaker (from SE) looks bad and doesn't augur well for the unity of the country

As if religion of the top 6 positions was ever an issue before (aside from President and VP)? 

Hilarious

What?

There is ACN SW, there is PDP SW.

If the PDP decides to punish PDP SW and take away the position that is supposed to be theirs, then it is the PDP to blame.

You are right, there is a wrong message being sent. . . but it isn't going to be us to blame. But the PDP national.

zstranger:
We should not be seen as anti-Nigeria or solely pro-Yorubas alone

This isn't a Yoruba affair. This is a PDP affair. If the PDP decides to take from the PDP SW what was previously agreed on, how is Yorubaland to blame? We have no say in the matter.

Worst case, we lose the speakership but ask for something else to compensate. Wouldn't you prefer Ibadan-Lagos road to be modernized over the speaker position?

I don't want us to have the speaker position if it means no actual tangible benefits, just some PDP Yorubaman lining his pockets

Of what relevance is this position? How has it benefited the SW in the past?

Let the PDP SW and OBJ fight for it. If they succeed, fine. If they fail, no wahala.

Isn't an ACN affair

Though you figure they'll be compensated in some other way.

But still makes me smh that after all that support, no senate presidency, no speaker

i dey laff

^-- Heh. If/when I find and post it, don't try blaming the "Yoruba" media. The research I read had nothing to do with them. . . was some Western report.

Have no fear though, rather than posting in this thread, I'll make a separate thread for it.