₦airaland Forum

true2god:
You are muddling things up, like a Jehovah's witness, to validate the obvious errors in quran 9:30. Quran 9:30 said and I quote: 'the Jews said Ezra is the son of Allah' and not 'some Jews said Ezra is the son of Allah'. Look at the the definite article 'the' which indicated that, according to Mohammed, it is a mainstream belief held by the Jews, of which Mohammed/quran got it wrong.

On the issue of the golden calf you chipped in, the children of Israel had no Torah or the talmud or any organized religious belief, immediately they left Egypt. The laws and the prophet (I am not referring to the patriarchs like Abraham, Isaac or Jacob) were not in the picture yet. The golden calf is not a belief system and no doctrine was set up to support this evil. It was an idol set up by the children of Israel (I didn't use the word JEWS for obvious reason) for worship in the absence of their leader Moses. This apostasy by the children of Israel in the wilderness is never regarded as an established belief but a form of idolatory and they were eventually punished by God for this despicable act. So the comparison you attempted to make here in order to validate quran 9:30 does not make sense here. And let's even say, for the sake of argument, that children of Israel worshiped the golden calf before but they no longer do it, because it was a documented fact recorded both in the Torah and the Talmud, where was it recorded that the Jews believed that 'Ezra is the son of God'?


Shirk, according to Islamm, is associating patner with Allah and many ayah in the quran reads: 'Allah and his messenger'. There is a special relationship between Allah and his messenger that one wonders if Mohammed is not Allah himself. This scenario played out so much that Aisha, one of the prophet's wives, told Mohammed: 'it seems your Lord always hasten to satisfy your desires'(sahih Bukhari 6:60:311). Even in your shahada (sahih bukhari 4:52:196) there is always 'Allah and his messenger' before your allegiance to Islam can be valid. In your daily prayer, you must also mention Mohammed numerous times or else your prayer will not be valid. If this is not shirk I wonder what it is. And as I said earlier, Muslims seem to have reverence for Mohammed more than Allah himself.


You have to validate what your 'scholars' preach before you pass the information to others. I don't thnk you overheard this info from any scholar but from this blog which you have made reference to without showing any form of acknowledgement (see the url below)
https://almadinainstitute.org/blog/the-quran-the-jews-and-ezra-as-the-son-of-god/.

Even the writer is not sure of the claim concerning quran 9:30, it was all about guess work and muddling up of facts.



This is a standard Islamic claim without evidence. If you claim a document has been distorted it is for you to present the original copy which no Muslim could provide. If I claim that the 100 naira bill in your pocket is fake I will surely provide an original copy to compare with the fake, this is how commonsense works. To the Jews and the Christians, the quran is an outright lies and fabrications by Mohammed and his sahabas


You are always changing the goal post. You said at no where did quran talked about Trinity (three) then I presented quran 4:171 to you and you are shifting without clearing up my question. According to quran 4:171, the trinity is the father, the son and Mary and the quran got it 100% wrong because no Christian believe in such thing. If Mohammed got quran 9:30 and quran 4:171 wrong, with respect to the established Jewish and christian theology, how can we trust the quran?


I kiss my wife and peg my daughter on the cheek almost everyday that does not mean I worship them; I only show my love and admiration for them. I do not kiss them out of religious beliefs or because my 'propeht' kissed his wives. If I however kiss a stone, as part of my religios rite anytime I go for hajj in mecca, that's idolatry. Idolatrous practices might not be direct worship but a reverence of nature or object as part of religious ritual. I have not even make mention of the traditional stoning of the devil in Kaaba as if a symbolic devil is present in Kaaba. Yes, the Hindus has many deities one of which is the black stone similar to that of Islam.



You are very funny. You are talking like a shi'a expecting the apocalyptic 'Mahdi'. You have not understanding of Christian eschatology.


The Saudis and the Iranians are simply following the sunnah of the prophet as contained in the hadith and the seerah. It is not a rocket science. On the Jews and Christians failure to enforce the law of stoning for adultery, read the account of Jesus and the adulterous woman; you get a hint of what I am talking about.


See hint directly above.

Coming for this later but let me just quote it ready

true2god:
Using the bolded, you seem to have upgraded your argument from the Jews calling Ezra 'son of Allah' to 'God', is this claim also in the quran? The quran did not even go as far as making the claim that the Jews were calling Ezra God but you seem to be moving faster than the quran.

All you had to do was to consider that error on my part

oyatz:
You are answering Theological questions with unrelated Political conspiracy theories.


Answer my questions directly.

conspiracy theory in what's clear as daylight?. I thought you were intelligent. I was wrong. What I'm I gonna do with your theology when you started off with "Islamic terrorism" and I gave your your dose but you changed tune saying it is c"political conspiracy theory"?. You are incredible.
If you want me to answer your theological questions you first off need to ask your fellow CHRISTIANs who don't believe Jesus is God, why they don't?. Only then you can bring your questions to me.

Remembering Alhaji AbdulRazak Gawat

Discussion with you would be easier if you know God. But you don't. Therefore, it is a huge waste of time trying to explain to you difference between sugar and honey tastes

sagenaija:
I feel your pain.

It's not easy to follow a path for long and then realize you've been going the wrong direction.
You must therefore struggle like a drowning battles to hold on to any branch of twig he can get.
Even the prophet of Islam had his bouts of depression.

You quote the Bible when it suits you and then turn round the next moment to claim that it has been 'corrupted': A claim you guys are never able to substantiate.
Do you truly and honestly believe it is a measure of integrity on your part to run to the Bible to support your position in Islam and ignore the same Bible on other issues; sometimes even other areas in the same passage?

Islam has no assurance of paradise for any of you guys. You can do all the five pillars and other tenets of Islam only for your fate to still be dependent on whether Allah predestined you to go to hell or paradise. Even a dead baby is not guaranteed paradise in Islam.

But in Christianity he who has the Son of God has life. Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you are saved from eternal damnation. You have peace with God. You are not a slave but a child in God's family. Nothing like this exists in any other religion - including Islam.

oyatz:
What are you saying that the words of Allah can NOT be translated?
Is Allah not universal God for everybody? Can't Allah speak to Igbos, Fulani, Kanuris Chambas, Zulus,Tutsis?
Why can't people pray in their mother tongues but have to pray in Arabic before Allah can answer the prayers?

Read profiles of those Christian terrorists who created terrorists for their evil plans?.

[s]

oyatz:
Crucify me for saying the truth?

Try to answer the questions I raised and leave the crucification.

1) The Islamic religion make many Muslims to have negative relationships with non-muslim all over the World.

2) Many Islamic terrorists justified their actions by citing examples in the Sunnah and the Hadiths.

3) They may be similar acts in the Quran, Sunnah and the Hadiths but we need to understand that these may not necessarily have eternal and/or universal applications because some of these were views and actions of the Holy Prophet Muhammed (SAW) and NOT necessarily the words of God.

4) The Quran was NOT written as a single book by Nabi Muhammed but was composed many years after his death by the Sahabas under the leadership of Caliph Uthman. Other copies of the Quran that were slightly different from the version authorized by the Caliph were seized and burnt. Productions of copies of other versions or translations of the Quran were strongly prohibited.

5) There many things in the Quran that are certainly not true.
For instance that , Abraham and Isaac built the Kaaba in Mecca when all historical and archeological evidences show that Mecca only came into existence around the 4th century AD.[/s]

You wanna know who terror!sts are?. Help yourself. Let's see if you are intelligent

So me and Laitan went out. He took me to Brother Tunde. The area is "agbole" from one corner to another here and there. I was thinking to myself 'where are we going'. Here he is, brother Tunde. Just a normal yoruba guy wearing simple agbada type with sokoto sofe, probably in his late 20s. I was only 20 at the time. I even said to him "salaam alaikum". Whether he heard or not, he simply did not reply. My mind was that Laitan is taking to me Alfa. Remember Laitan is just a teenager, slightly taller than me, absolutely light skinned like myself but he got 10 kobo brain . He must be big man now. Hope to see him and Taslim again, in sha Allah. Malim (Masjid leader and his family member) called us 'brothers' but called me 'bororo'. I earned that title from him. When Sheikh Agbarigidoma passed away i was the first to break the news to them on my way to school early in the morning after i heard the news on Alhaji Ali Agan's program who said the sheikh just passed away mins ago. Na so everyone dey say "bororo" broke the news.

We went inside Brother Tunde's room and behold! he is 100% babalawo. I dont mean mischievous Alfa. He is not Alfa. This is my first time ever setting my eyes on alawo rituals den, exactly the way it is in the movies. I only seen them in the movies but never in the real world despite being from Ijebu bcus we are Muslims in my family and had nothing to do with Yoruba culture or religion except cultural dances in school. Thats it. I was confused for a few seconds. Thought to myself this guy was supposed to take me to Alfa ni ke?. But i didnt want to raise eyebrows. I go with the flow.

Brother Tunde handed me a little piece of thing like cowry. Told me to say something to it after placing money. Told him I am only a student. Still getting little stipend from papa. He said 'dont worry..just any amount.' Five naira was valuable at the time and i remembered placing #5 on his ifa wooden plate. It is exactly like Yoruba movies and still couldn't believe a whole muslim like me in this situation?. Anyways, i collected cowry from him and as far as i am concern, i am a muslim and very well aware of hadith which speaks about salat of a muslim who visits soothsayer and believes in what he tells him has disbelieved in what was revealed to Muhammad(saw).

Or

“Whoever goes to a soothsayer and asks him about something and believes him, his prayer will not be accepted for forty days.” (Narrated by Muslim in his Saheeh). Shaykh Ibn ‘Uthaymeen(ra) gave 3 categories of those who visit fortunetellers, of one of which is not kufr. So basically i was well aware of this hadith at the time. Few years ago on "Jinn Stories" thread opened by tbaba, tbaba accused me of this kind of thing when i narrated my experiences. He said "this kind of things (shirk, fortunetellers, awo, agemo etc) are paramount in ijebu side due to story of ruhaniya i narrated. He assumed i had something to do with alawo stuff not knowing that Islam has more, a lot more to offer beyond daily obligatory salat, zakat, ramadan, hajj. We have our spiritual part in Islam. We have the idea of consulting Alfa in islam. Don't let this new ideology in town tells you there is nothing like that. There are people, who after finishing salah, stand up and go back to their activities. There are people on the other hand who, after finishing salat, sit down and make Istighfar. These are warasikhuna fil ilmi, the Muttaqun. These are the people you go to for your problems. Let them help you speak to God. We are not equal. Some are closer to Allah than others.


When i grabbed his cowry, I am used to saying lots of salawat a lot from childhood. So the first thing i said quietly was send salam on the prophet(saw) 10x. I didnt even know what else to say after that and handed back his cowry. He said his deities stuff bla bla bla bla bla bla until he said "e la han mi" At some point i thought i was acting yoruba movies the way the whole thing played out. After he finished everything he was very true. He described xyz involved and insisted if i wasn't sure he would give more details about the family descriptions and point out specific fellow. I said go ahead and tell me. He did and identified two people. Of the two people, he said the tall one acts crazy and runs her mouth but that's all she got. She has no evil intention towards anyone. To be honest, i know the person he referred to. His descriptions were correct. And in real world i have no problems with the fellow either. I only preferred to stay away from he/she due to character differences. Brother Tunde proceeded and described the second one as short and very quiet. Wallahi he was right. He said this is the one. You and this fellow dont get along and at the same time you dont confront one another either. Again, he is right. I know the fellow he is talking about. But i did not act like i was excited about his findings. I was just looking like dummy but i understood him well. But from my expression he thought i doubted him. Because of my reaction, he said if i am not sure of his findings, if i can afford #5000 and come back to him, he would call the fellow's spirit and i will see him/her live and ask the fellow questions i want. Wallahi, that kinda got me excited. i wanted to see that movie . It was gonna be fun but i got no money. But, again, I pretended and played dumb. I simply did not want to give him some sort of credit.

I asked him if the fellow would know if he calls his/her spirit and i speak to him/her?. Brother Tunde said 'absolutely'.



continued....

oyatz:
Your Analogy is very wrong and misleading because of

1) You claim that the Quran is 100% the words of God
2) Was Allah the one speaking in ALL the bolded lines?
3) The Lord's prayer is found in the Gospels as recorded by the apostles.It wasn't written by Jesus or God.
4) Nobody has ever said that the Gospels or even the Bible was written or dictatated by God.
5) All the books of the Bible were written by Humans (which are widely acknowledged).
Some are believed by Christians/Jews to be inspired by God, some are historical records, some are teachings of doctrines, some are views/prophecies of Men of God.

6) Islamic terrorism will reduce drastically if Muslims agree that the Quran was written by the Prophet Muhammed with divine inspiration but, who like all other humans may make errors or that some of his actions were applicable to his 5th century Arab society but may NOT have eternal & universal applications.

The best reply to you is to ignore you since you could not subdue your hateful ego rhetoric. Your lines 3 and 4 are enough to crucify you.

Have a nice day, "Mr peaceful Christian".

...

And here we go. Yoruba proverb says, "a tí kó IFA nle o ti not".


Another mission country to enacted law punching sick practice called homogay. This is something that you shamelessly abandoned. It is not our law but I am proud that muslims uphold it while you abandoned Jesus in the name of modernism

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2081233511932124&id=490858150969676&anchor_composer=false

true2god:
Good day bro.

Good day

Muslim scholars have no intellectual or religious authority to speak about Jewish doctrine, especially on controversial view (quran 9:30) held by Muslims which are completely strange to the Jews. If I tell you that there are some Muslims who, in 830-1115AD, held the belief that Mohammed descended from the moon and equally believe that the moon is where Allah lives, how will Muslims take my belief? Of course you will ask for a proof, then I will tell you that only a minority of Muslims held that view and that all of them (who held such belief) have died out hence the belief does not survive among the contemporary Muslims. This is exactly how quran 9:30 sound to an average Jew because such belief never existed in the fist place except on the mind of Mohammed.

Your analogy is incredibly illogical. Let's assume such belief was held. First all, analogy you used is not sinful or very less sinful because it is not major sin. Such believe is simply EXERGGERATION and of course, we would show them proofs otherwise. But to say Ezra is God was a major sin was the reason Quran captured it. Now take a look at the story of golden calf. This is famous history in Bible (Exodus 32:4) and Qur'an (Tãhã 95) that, after Moses went to collect Commandments, before he returned to his people, they had already crafted calf and worshipped it. Today, do Jews still held this belief, that golden calf is god?. The belief faded but quite documented bcuz it was exerggerated by mainstream. Even at that time of Moses not all Israelites worshipped this idol. So how could handful of Jews not called Ezra god if they could worship golden calf?

On the second statement: They have taken their rabbis and monks as lords apart from God…’ (Quran 9:31), this issue is prevalent in many religion where sect/religious leaders are exalted so much as to put God in the second fiddle. It is an observation and not a religious doctrine of accepting the rabbis and the monks as Lords. People tend to respect religious leaders above God, the say way many Muslims respect Mohammed above Allah.

praises of Nabi Muhammad (saw) is within limit. This Ayah of Quran is in broad context that even Muslims can fall into it. It is not simply about praising individual. It is also about obeying and following a leader even if he gives clear commands that contravene God's Law. In Islamic terminology it is called shirk.

Shirk is not only about worshipping idols. It also means; for instance, we know homosexual is forbidden in God's Law and human are expected to enforce this Law. But today, political leaders say you have freedom to do as you wish. It is no longer punishable offense to be gay. So if individual in anti gay country practices homosexual secretly, it is no one's business. His sin is only on himself. But it gets to the level of shirk if political leaders sign into law making man and man gets married and issued legal certificate. What this means is that they have made what God made Haram halal. This is what the verse is referring to by saying Jews and Christians have taken their rabbis and monk as gods besides Allaah. So many political leaders today are guilty of this and those who follow them in the name of activism.

Many a time a possibility is still an assumption. You seem to attempt to tell us that the quran never really said the Jews 'BELIEVED' but only 'SAID' that Ezra is 'the son of Allah'. How can religious people profess what they do not believe? Christians do SAY 'Jesus is Lord' and they also BELIEVED that 'Jesus is Lord'. Proclamation and belief go side by side.

refer to my comment above.

You also make this claim: A Hadith in Sahih al-Bukhari reiterates the claim made in the Quran, and a Hadith in the Sunan of Abū Dāwūd quotes the Prophet ﷺ as saying that he does not know if ʿUzayr is a prophet or not.
, this shows the limitations your prophet had on the understanding of the Jewish scriptures/characters. If your prophet is not sure of the personality of Ezra with respect to his prophethood, how can we take his alleged revelation concerning quran 9:30 serious?

First, it is my fault. I should have given reference from hadith when I heard it. I simply overheard a scholar said that during his speech but I didn't take the time to double check. Besides, if there was ever such hinted Hadith, does that mean anything?. Quran already clarifies by saying some prophets were revealed to Nabi Muhammad (saw) while some were not.

And [We sent] messengers about whom We have related [their stories] to you before and messengers about whom We have not related to you.

Age is not a criteria for religious and intellectual scholarship. He studied the subject but also has his bias. No any book, written outside the quran, do validate mohammed's claim in quran 9:30.

See, we believe in what was sent down to us with absolute certainity. Besides, we know for a fact that Torah/Talmud/Gospel are distorted. This is another possibility. Now you can go ahead and accuse me of saying this issue Ezra was expunged.

Mohammed talked about the concept of Trinity in quran 4:171:

Sahih International : O People of the Scripture, do not commit excess in your religion or say about Allah except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, was but a messenger of Allah and His word which He directed to Mary and a soul [created at a command] from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers. And do not say, "Three"; desist - it is better for you. Indeed, Allah is but one God. Exalted is He above having a son. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. And sufficient is Allah as Disposer of affairs.

You can look it up and explain quran 4:171 to me. For the 3rd time, can you please explain who quran considered the 3 gods in Christianity?

Your claim can only be validated if you don't believe in Trinity. Trinity is your 3gods concept not Quran. The only way you can effectively refute Quran is if you don't believe Trinity. So here, Quran is simply telling you to desist from such destructive belief. Qur'an overheard you say "métá lókàn Bábá" and it is telling to you desist from saying or believing in such a sick doctrine. It is not affirming Qur'an concept of Trinity. For as long as there are Christians who believe in this Trinity or 3gods in one concept, the Ayah is correct. I don't even know how you go to church and sing "olohun baba, olohun ómó, olohun emimo" and still sleep comfortable at night?. I know with all discussions we have heard over the years on this subject, your inner self whispers to you in church that you are wrong. I know you would remember. You just stubbornly cling on.

The Hindus also kiss their religious black stone, Shiva Lingam, long before Islam. As a matter of fact, the Hindus has been kissing and worshiping their black stone thousands of years before Islam. According to you, the hindus black stone is fake while the muslims' black stone is the original. Motigbo sir!

kisses are not worship unless they attributed Divinity to it. We kiss Quran. Since when is that become act of worship?. Hindus have many deities. That's the difference.

You need to show me where Jesus killed people (as Mohammed did) or ordered a military campaign (as Mohammed did) against the infidels. And note, the Jewish rabbi and the occupying Roman power were not sympathetic to Jesus yet no war recorded between them.

Jesus life was cut short was the reason he could not complete his tasks. And he's coming back to wage his j!had on rebellious Jews and CHRISTIANS. For the fact that he beat the heck out of them in the temple is a hint. And for the fact that Matthew 10:34 and Luke 19:27 documented clear indication. These are not parables.

Where is the hypocrisy from me? I said that the christian new testament has abrogated the concept of stoning people for adultery and even the Jews no longer practice it, so what is the hypocrisy? In saudi Arabia and Iran, whats the penalty for adultery?

leave Saudi and Iran out of this. If they implemented stoning, it means they enforced what your religions (Judaism and Christianity) have shamelessly abandoned. Christ Fulfills the Law

This is what Jesus said in Matthew 5:17-19


“Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not one or little will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."


So where did he say he abrogated Stoning to death?. And you confessed Jews have abandoned it which means they aren't followers of Jesus yet you still support them. And pay closer attention to the highlighted of the verse say those who fulfill the law belong to God's Kingdom. Iran and Saudi uphold the Law. In another word, Muslims are the inheritance of Jesus kingdom. Old laws are not abrogated.

najib632:
If you don't see it that's not my cup of tea, is the back passage of a female different from that of a males? By Allah it is homosexuality in disguise.

Just accept your guilty or remain silent bro. You are mixing stuff up

afroniger:
The older one gets, the wiser. Most young people getting tattoos regret it as they get older and wiser as perspectives change. Most especially women. Mainly because it makes them look irresponsible.

they are very stupid, male or female. Their brain are being controlled. The people who tell them they have freedom to do what they want, if you look at them and their children, they don't do what they the masses do. They tell them it is their freedom to do this and that to slow then down intellectually. But look at their children they are neat and look responsible. They go to standard schools. They reach the top politically etc to control them further.

AlBaqir:
Anal sex is not Haram but makrooh (undesirable act). And you are absolutely right, homosexuality is haram and no school of thought welcomes it. In fact punishment for it is severe.

Toor, I can understand that Islamic jurisprudence comes from a multitude of sources, including Quran, Hadith, Sunnah, etc. and not only Quran. So this is figh issue.

Soundest opinion is, it is not permissible. Even the practice being makhruh is very close to forbidden. But definitely anal is not tantamount to homosexual. The brother needs to make tawbah for his wrong accusation.

What does this prove now?. This is profile and means nothing to me. James White is a theologian and very vast in his CHRISTIAN evangelism. Yet, this CP guy is nothing compared to him

sagenaija:
This again is CP's bio:
Christian Prince is an author and Christian apologist.

Christian Prince was born and raised in a Christian family in the Middle East. He is a native Arabic speaker. After his teachers criticized his religion, he determined to study Islam and earned a degree in Islamic Law (Sharia Law) & Civil Law. This makes him qualified to be a Judge in Islamic court, having intimate knowledge of the foundational Islamic texts. He uses this knowledge to address an expansive list of topics representing typical questions or myths about Islam. The coverage of each topic includes explanation and specific relevant quotes from Islamic sources.

Christian Prince has a history of numerous debates with Moslems, and presents the truth to millions of Moslems and Christians by visiting many countries around the world doing seminars, and on the Internet.

He has posted thousands of videos on YouTube showing him debating various Muslim scholars on Paltalk like Shia scholar Husham Al-Husainy. He uses the pseudonym Christian Prince for his protection.

Now, PROVE to me that he is fake! No excuses. No rigmarole. Let's just stick to this for now before you again accuse of jumping from one thing to another. Can we do that? So, over to you to prove your claim.

najib632:
Brother anal sex with male or female is what?

brother, don't twist. Homosexual by definition is intercourse with same sex. Why are you trying to twist it?.

Anal sex is simply Haram even with your wife. That's not definition of homosexual. But you accused their fuqaha of supporting homosexual. You are yet to provide evidence for that.

LadunaI:
What do you mean by alagbigba (ayewo)?

Some Alfa call them that. Didn't know the meaning before self. Álágbígbá are soothsayers. I guess it is another Yoruba word for "yéwoyéwo". I am against it bcuz there is clear hadith on it. This young alfa too is against it. However, not all inquiries are un-Islamic. This young alfa breaks it down like ikupakuti did. I cited examples of alfas who criticized iyepe tite like sheikh Ahmed Alaye(ra). Sheikh Yahya solati(ra) and others and also cited sheikh Daud Alfa nla but Alfa Nla breaks it down into 2. So this young alfa said that's what he was expecting for me say. He said indeed it is divided into two. We talked at length but unfortunately fb/whatspp lines from his side were just static which made it difficult for me to get full message. He talked about istikhara involving dreams which puritans dont acknowledge. They only acknowledged 2 rakat istikhara. We talked about another form he inherited from old man called baba onitada(not sure if you know him). I put up his pictures with Alfa Nla in my thread.

What about istikhara of making inquiries about someone?. Someone comes to you for spiritual assistance, you can't just take his or her situation on top of your matter. There may be risks with that fellow that may affect you and your family. Thats why you make this inquiries to see if this is something you can handle or not. Western world tapped this from islam. A guy comes to you seeking spiritual help, you gotta ask for his full name and mother's name to pull his record which tells you everything and possible pending attacks on the fellow before you decide to go further or not. This is not haram (niyah is very important). This is precaution provided is it within sharia.

Same thing in western world. You apply for a loan. They ask you to submit your full name, mother maiden's name and your ssn to pull your credit record to determine your creditworthiness. They don't just give you loan. Credit determines how much you get and rate they will charge. I don't want to go into details of this bcus the person involved is non muslim NL member who sent me email weeks ago seeking help. There lots of people reading our posts. So i referred him to alfa in question and thats where i learned more. Nkan nbe faah.

But i am against muslims going to alawo for such request since it is obvious they would call on their deities for sure. Let me narrate my quick experience in ilorin. I was walking down with my friend from my rented apt to his house late night. Say btw 11 and 12. There is one old woman always made jokes with her husband in the day. She never for once wore her headscarf properly. I dont mean like hijab type but Yoruba type. She always placed her scarf on her forehead and looked down. Never for once saw her face. So this night, for some reason she was still up late night and sat outside. The hood was so quiet that you can hear a pin drop (sarcasm). So we were walking down and this old woman called us out saying "come come come here". She was calling us while looking down. Asked my partner if she was calling us?. He said of course but she is calling you(me). "Hell, no." i said. igbawo ni ipade were ati asinwin Me i dey go and come jejeli minding my business. I dont want trouble. This is not my hometown. Abeg, free me. I kept walking and the woman called out again saying "you (pointed at me), it is you i am calling". I looked other way and kept walking.

Two days later my brother came from ijebu that my sheikh needed my attention back home. You know, there was no cell phones back then. I said 'okay, mo ti gbo'. I was expecting him to sleep over and leave in the morning but he insisted that he wanted me to come home that night. He actually arrived in ilorin night time after Ishai and expected me to board that night to ijebu which was 4hrs at that time. I am sure the distance is reduced now due to road repairs. Anyways, i followed him and abandoned my fresh pot of soap. The thing pained me bcuz by the time i returned 2 weeks later, the thing don turn green and foul smell. I got home that night a bit after midnight. My sheikh was still up waiting for us to arrive.

The news kinda saddens me. The incident was based on dream by my sister who lived in Lagos at the time had. Remember i said in my previous post(s) that i am not blessed with dreams but if people around me dream something about me, positive or negative, i dont take it lightly. Her dream was about me laying dead on the ground and she cried her eyes out. She was scared and ran to ijebu to relate the incident. My sheikh made inquiry (you understand this). Thats why he sent for me to come home. He refused to tell me outcome of his investigation. He only explained what he wanted to do. Simply, a simple standing prayer outside in the sun facing qibla lasted 5 mins. He told me other stuff he said he wanted to do before i returned to ilorin but he didnt do it. When i was about to leave for ilorin i reminded him but he said that was enough.

I was in the dark about what really happened. I was so curious and upset at the same time bcus others were looking at me like a dead man walking. My elder brother asked me if i felt or noticed strange things when in ilorin?. I said nope. Of course i didnt notice anything except for old woman incident but that was not significant to me. Didnt know the old woman was actually right. She called me for a reason but i knew not. So i returned to ilorin and decided to dig further. I had two closed friends. One is my age mate and he is alfa. He is from Abeokuta but came to ilorin to study keu. His 'brother' is 3 yrs younger than me. He is the one walking with me the night that old woman called us. I know this young guy is not too learned islamically but i am so free to say anything around him than Taslim (from Abeokuta). So i briefed Laitan, the young guy what happened. He didnt really want to hear. He quickly said let me take you to boda Tunde. I thought brother Tunde was Alfa or sheikh.

As far as i am concerned, the way i seen ilorin was it is 100% Muslim capital. I didn't expect to see christians or other religions. This was my thought ever before i traveled to ilorin in late '97. But when i rented my room around Gari Alimi, i noticed Christians. My neighbors in the same house were Christians and was even visited by Jehovah witnesses 4 times.

najib632:
Prominent scholars from amongst them who say it's makrooh:
https://web.archive.org/web/20171027074905/http://www.english.shirazi.ir/topics/sex
Another scholar:
http://www.alulbayt.com/rulings/11.htm

Bro, we are talking about homosexual but these websites you provide as references didnt say anything about gay/homosexual. See why i told you to be careful?.


Again, where is evidence that shia fiqh supports homosexual?

sagenaija:
It's either that you can refute CP or you're not. It's as simple as that. If you can't refute him then be HUMBLE enough to admit that he is right.

Do you believe that portion and book of the Bible you've quoted? If so, can we look into it more carefully?

You're free to take me back to any area you want clarification on. This thread is not restricted to any particular topic. What I can clearly see is that you have been unable to come up with clear responses to the posts I have made. I have challenged you to show me certain things but you have been unable to do that. Why do you now point the finger at me?

You are the one going from one topic to another when you can refute my claim. You are just like your fellow christians with same load of confusions that Jesus in one in 3. He is flesh inside water and water inside holy spirit and became a man and at the same time his holy spirit is the same in heaven and he is also son of himself and all these combined is One God?. This is shenanigan and you think I would waste my time with this nonsense?. If you can not differentiate God and Jesus, then you have a big problem and every evidence brought to you would make no sense to you. So at this time, before you can understand anything i am saying you must return to the basics.

Because of your inability to know and understand the basics is the reason fake guy CP attracted to you.

true2god:
You can't compare a belief system with fashion. Fashion changes year by year but beliefs, culture, doctrines survives for 1000s of years. You made a claim that the Jews who held the believe that 'Ezra is the son of Allah' had dies out and I asked you when they died out and if there is any fringe Jewish sect that hold this belief but you couldn't provide. It is either Mohammed was ignorant of Jewish belief systems or simply confused.

My post clearly said this belief was held by small group but did not make it to mainstream. So you asking me to provide reference from Jewish Book is kinda useless since main Jewish believe fo go against it. That been said, an explanation given by Muslim scholars from the time of al-Jāḥiẓ and al-Ṭabarī (d. 923) was that this belief had, in fact, been held by a group of Jews in Arabia, but that this sect had died out. Ibn Ḥazm, the famous Andalusian scholar (d. 1064), wrote that there was a group of Jews in Yemen who believed this. Interestingly, an inscription from a 4th-6th-century CE Jewish temple in South Arabia suggests possible angel worship. A second explanation was that this Quranic verse related to the verse immediately following it: ‘They have taken their rabbis and monks as lords apart from God…’ (Quran 9:31). In other words, Jews venerated Ezra so much that it was as if he were a god to them.

Muslim scholars found a basis for the first claim – that some Jews actually considered Ezra to be the son of God – in a Jewish work entitled The Fourth Book of Ezra (probably composed in the first century CE), which had not been included in the Hebrew Bible but which rabbis still read and consulted (it belongs to a body of works known as the Old Testament Pseudepigrapha, namely works that claimed to be written by some Old Testament figures such as Enoch but which were really produced in the Hellenistic or early Roman periods). Fourth Ezra tells how Ezra led the Children of Israel after their return from the Babylonian exile, when their scriptures had been lost (this is all in the Bible’s book of Ezra as well). Ezra is given inspiration by God to reconstitute the Torah in 451 BCE. As a reward, God tells Ezra that “You shall be taken up from among men, and henceforth you shall live with my son….” Here it is important to remember that, like the belief of the Quraysh that angels were the daughters of God (“We worship the angels, who are daughters of God,” said the Quraysh to the Prophet in Ibn Isḥāq’s Sīra; see also Quran 17:40, 37:150-53), in Jewish scriptures of this period angels were called the children of God.

Another possibility is that ʿUzayr as mentioned in the Quran was never a one-for-one counterpart of Ezra. First, the Quran does not actually specify that Jews believed that Ezra was the son of God; it says that they said that ʿUzayr was the son of God(sura 9:30). The Quran provides no more information about ʿUzayr, nor do the mainstay Hadith collections. A Hadith in Sahih al-Bukhari reiterates the claim made in the Quran, and a Hadith in the Sunan of Abū Dāwūd quotes the Prophet ﷺ as saying that he does not know if ʿUzayr is a prophet or not. What other information we find in less critical collections of Hadiths comes from stories drawn from figures like the Successor (and Jewish convert to Islam) Kaʿb al-Aḥbār (d. circa 653) and the early collector of stories of the prophets, Wahb b. Munabbih (d. 732), without any chain of transmission to any authoritative source.

Quoting contemporary scholarship to buttress an unknown religious view is like a scientist proving the existence of dinosaur in china. It will surely be fraught with conjectures, bias and at times, outright lies. I expected you to quote a Jewish source, religious materials, the Talmud (at least) or a religiously sanctioned scholarly material to prove that this believe system was held at any time, but you couldn't produce any. You cannot make a fact from an hypothesis. The so-called acclaimed specialist in Islamic, Jewish and Comparative Studies was probably doing a guess work, using quran as a yardstick for his scholarly program on the subject matter. Clinging on a straw to validate an obviously false or controversial doctrine, as propagated by Mohammed, does not make sense. It is a high level of intellectual dishonesty. Give me a single prove from ancient or contemporary Jewish scripture that validates mohammed's claim.

The 80 years old Gordon D. Newby is not a muslim. He simply studied this subject. He is probably Jewish.

That's the concept of the Trinity as known to mohammed: the father, the son and mary. All attempt by muslim apologist to explain this fact away is very ridiculous. I asked you a simple question will you have consistently failed to answer: what is mohammed's concept of the Trinity using the quran and the hadith only?

wrong question. Prophet MUhammad (saw) believed not in trinity concept. It is your believe. Quran made no mention of trinity. It simply said christians took Jesus as god which you can't deny and some christians take his mother as god. While it is true that most Christians TODAY do not worship Mary, but MANY heretical Christians THROUGHOUT HISTORY HAD DONE SO.

That is why Sura 5 Verse 116 states :

"And behold ... Didst thou say unto men, Take me( to answer all the Christians throughout history ) and my mother ( to answer those Christians in history who worshipped Mary ) for two gods beside Allah?"

There you go again; always making a claim that a fringe minority held a belief without a single prove. Can you give a single christian, either old or contemporary, group that hold this belief? You will soon tell me that they have died out hence no trace for this group.

POSITION of MANY Christian Churches is MORE RIDICULOUS:

"Mary is Mother of God

"495 ... In fact, the One whom she conceived as man by the Holy Spirit, who truly became her son according to the flesh, was none other than the Father's eternal Son, the second person of the Holy Trinity. Hence the Church confesses that Mary is truly "Mother of God" (Theotokos). [Catechism of the Catholic Church,] (p. 125)"

Kissing the black stone is a religious duty in Islam and not a picnic. Any reverencing, for religious purpose, of stones, trees, rivers, sea, etc is idolatory. What if I, as a muslim, also keep a black stone in my village in Oshogbo and decided to kiss it after solat, is my stone in Oshogbo a form of idolatry while the one in mecca in from God?

There is only one black stone. Any other is counterfeit. Not kissing black stone invalidates Hajj?. This is your homework.

Bro, stop talking like Ahmed Deedat or Zakir Naik. At no time did Jesus got engaged in world politics. He made it clear to his disciples: 'my kingdom is not of this world'. He did not engage in warfare nor killed anyone, unlike Mohammed. He didn't separate the world between the ummah and the kafir and never instituted a war against the so-called 'polythiest'. Christianity, unlike Islam, was not built on conflict and confusion. The Pope was brutal at the height of their power and most of their crusade was against Islamic aggression. The Spanish inquisition was also a response to the aggression and occupation of the Islamic moorish Spain. Most of the papal battle was against Islamic incursion into the then known Christian worlds.

Even after his statements recorded in your bible are clear?

In any case, we cannot destroy the hadith of Ibn majjah and bukari if some of their hadith does not agree with your belief. Over 90% of Islamic laws and jurisprudence are in the hadith and not the quran. All your 5 pillars of Islam are in the hadith and not in the quran, except zakat. So what does this tell us? The hadith is far more important than the Quran. So if the hadith prescribes stoning as a punishment for adultery, which all the 5 schools of Islamic taught agreed upon, it is a mainstream islamic teachings and practices. As Christians, we are in time of grace and not bound by the traditional law of moses hence we did away with stoning and embrace love and forgiveness. Jesus already set a standard for this practice in the injil and even the Jews no longer practice it (except Muslims).

Your hypocrisy stinks. So i need not reply this bcuz it is a long winded argument.

Maximus69:
Everyone has brains but it works differently,that's why God arranged for organised worship to help them think alike!
With organised form of worship,we can become one happy global family. But most humans detest equity and this is how Satan formed RELIGION out of what supposed to be an organised form of worship. That is why those who detest equity could start claiming rules of INIQUITY! Matthew 7:23
The Mosaic laws were given ONLY to Israelites,this will help them realise the condition of man and why God has been far away from his creatures. They're to keep expecting the Messiah who will teach them the principles behind those numerous laws. The Messiah came in person of Jesus,he taught them the principles,few agreed but majority who detests equity disagreed with Jesus!
So he foretold that this same thing will still happen to people claiming to be his followers.
Today,alBAGDADI is arguing in support of those who detests equity. God brought the nation of Israel out from slavery in Egypt,enriched them by putting fear in the minds of their captors to give Israelites gold and other precious stones,protected them through a long journey,destroyed all the enemies on their way,led them to a land where each person could start making ends meet and drove away all other nations on that land!
By so doing,God has prepared them all for a fresh start in life so if he gives them laws,they should show appreciation for all that he did for them by sticking to those laws.
But that doesn't apply to other nations where there has been unequal chances for people to thrive,so when Christianity which is to be practiced independently of Jerusalem's temple was commissioned, God sent his holy spirit to tell the Christians that all those rules are no more required but few things. Act 15:28,29
So whoever is demanding that people living in places where such a fresh start that God gave Israelites is absent,such a person is setting a table for INIQUITY and that is why all these greedy religious leaders are coming up with different ideas just to enrich themselves at the expense of their malnourished people!

You make sense small. But unfortunately your are still like other double standards Christians. Since Jesus Christ was not a Christian and he's speaking to the Jews, the implication is that Jesus himself has nothing to do with you Nigerians and people of other nations except Israelites. But if you must hold on to New testament, then old laws are binding on you, because, as alBHAGDADI rightly said, Jesus did not come to abolish the laws but to fullfil them.

Jesus misson was restricted to Israelites that's where he was sent.

alBHAGDADI:
Where did I state that the old testament laws are 100% binding?

You are just looking for justification for your barbaric Islamic shariah laws which have nothing to do with the biblical laws

Get off my thread.

^^^ You need not backtrack. And you need not get Islam involved. It is as clear as daylight that you believe Old laws stand, contrary to your fellow CHRISTIANs. You only have issue with me for saying "100%"

sagenaija:
Where did he say this?

did you read him very well?. Old laws stand. That's the point

And we have a guy coming up with crazy theory about Christian follow "gravity law". I am coming for him too

alBHAGDADI:
There's currently a movement out there which wants Christians to throwaway the old testament part of the Bible and just stick with the new testament alone. Those behind this movement are mostly those against tithing. They say we are not to obey old testament laws because Christ has freed us from the law. They say those who obey the old testament laws are under a curse. Below are their favourite verses

Galatians 3:10 KJV
For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

James 2:10 KJV
For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

They quote the above verses when you tell them that tithe is very much relevant today as it was in the days of the children of Israel. They immediately quote tonnes of old testament laws which are very difficult to follow, and tell you that you simply want them to be under the curse of the law if they dare break any of them.

The problem with such people is that they don't understand the Bible because they lack the Holy Spirit which guides into all truth. That's why they have thrown away a whole portion of the Bible and have stick with the New Testament. Even the new testament which they claim to follow, they do not believe in it.

Now, is the old testament to be thrown away? No, because it is as good for us today as it was for those of old.

2 Timothy 3:16-17 KJV
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

As seen above, all scripture is profitable for doctrine. It doesn't say the old testament is not profitable nor does it say it is only the new testament that is profitable. It says all scripture. God gave us the old testament so that we can learn a lot from what happened before our time because such lessons will help us during the end times.

Amen

shadeyinka and sagenaija,

Do you agree with your fellow CHRISTIAN op?. He believes Old Testament is still valid 100% while you believe Old Testament is outdated. You believe your "abstract laws" are embedded in the "holy spirit" for you to follow. But op said exactly what Muslims have been saying. Who's a true Christian?.

Remember, op believes old testament Laws stand which is exactly what Jesus said but you are trying to run away from it.

Old laws are binding on you guys to follow.

sagenaija:
We still carry the whole Bible because it is part of what Jehovah has determined to REVEAL to mankind.

We still quote from it because it is still God’s word.

The Jews are God’s chosen race that he has a plan for.

The Old Testament is outdated only to the extent that the New Covenant specify. So, the New explains the Old. Where the New supersedes the Old the New makes clear. Where the New substantiates the Old it is equally made clear.

Jesus came to the Jews as God’s chosen race but he made it clear that he was starting with them but extending his work beyond them.

That we are under the New Covenant DOES NOT mean that we are lawless. Even the New Testament confirms this.

Even the koran and Islamic books confirms the New Testament, the ministry of the Apostles and particularly Peter, James and John. Anyone claiming anything contrary does not know what he is talking about.

sagenaija:
That guy in that video is misleading and misrepresenting the facts.

Christianity IS NOT Judaism.

Not all that is in the Bible is instruction for Christians to follow.

The Christian belongs to a New Covenant.

The prescriptions for the Christian come LARGELY from the New Testament.

Using what was done in a previous era to LABEL Christians is either
at the least a misunderstanding of the issues or at best an expedition into deception.

If that guy can point to ANYWHERE in the New Testament to justify his claim I will be
the first to admit that he is right otherwise he is only being mischievous and deceptive.

Unlike the koran, the Bible has what applies to the Jews and what applies to Christians.
That distinction has to be understood.

Does any part of the koran apply to ONLY Mohamed's time and others to today's or
does it apply to Moslems of all eras?

So, hope its clearer to you now.

sagenaija:
Christian Prince - was Rahman Added in Some Verses After. Ultimate Fart is Confused Again
Is the koran as straightforward as it claims?
Why is it not chronological which adds to all the confusion?
How come words that did not come in the first revelations
suddenly find themselves in the chapters of the earlier
revelations?
Can E.mpiree clear all this contradictions or does he need to refer to
his Sheikh?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAhIQvrfCEs

Sounds like CP is your newly founded religious guide. That's your problem. I am not amazed by what CP is doing. He is only fulfilling our prophecies. Many did worse than him and they are in their grave now facing consequences and those alive are non existence. As you could hear CP in the clip say "good day to our muslims with 4 wives and 60 children" making fun of himself.

Anyways, answer to your question is, order of verses of Quran is predicted in your Bible, the Book of Isaiah 28 :10 KJV


"For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little"


That's' why you read story of Moses (for example) in surah baqarah and then jump to surah taha and then turn the sheet to surah kahf and so on. You pick his story here and there. Perfect prediction. This answers you.


And you keep jumping from one topic to another bcuz you dont trust yourself enough.

Nadheer15:
Commot for here with your hypocrisy abeg!!!

Excuse?. Have i stepped on your toes before to come at me like this?

najib632:
Brother It's somewhat a fiqh from them. Alhamdulillah you said the Qur'an is clear, so any Sunni who claims homosexuality is halal is a lier and a faasiq.

can you quote (post) shia figh that supports homosexual?

najib632:
Brother I have read publications in which their is some support for it, I am not afraid of a lier, by Allah the truth will always be obvious.

okay. I know what i am talking about. You will surprised by the time albaqir dig up publication that support gay from sunni side . You better be careful. You guys dont know how to confront sectarianism. These are issues that make it to mainstream ideology of the sect. No sect in islam support homosexual. Quran is clear. But some individual muslims regardless of sect do indulge in it but this is different from saying shia support homosexual. This is false.

najib632:
They promote homosexuality in their fiqh, what a shame... Because of the opinion of a few scholars look at how they rejoice, anyone who gives attributes of Allah to anybody else is a disbeliever and they should be prepared for the hell fire.

Hadith:
فإن أصدق الحديث كلام الله، وخير الهدي هدي محمدٍ-صلىٰ الله عليه وسلم- وشرّ الأمور محدثاتها وكلّ محدثة بدعة، وكلّ بدعة ضلالة، وكلّ ضلالة في النّار.

@Al-Baqir come and declare the Hadith a da'ef... We know most of your scholars to be liars, they only use emotion to contol you guys. They behave as if the Salafis support Mu'awiyya R.A. and Yazids. Allah will Judge between us on the day of judgement.

bro, you better slow down from what you're saying. To make it worse, you are falling into same thing the other brother fell into by answering this christian man affirmatively. Be careful before you account. Shia did not promote homosexualism

true2god:
And the sect died out: when did they die out?

Lol, you are asking me. The same way chrsitians those days dressed faded or died out is the same way this died out. You all now wear tie and suit.

Which Jewish material, for the past 3500 years, did they call 'Ezra the son of Allah?'. The quran makes a claim that Muslims has no prove or cannot defend except telling us that the sects that believed that doctrine has died out. A yoruba adage says: a liar will make a dead man his witness. This is exactly what Muslims are doing. If no living being can collaborate your claim that mean that claim is a lie.

This is simple now. As I said earlier, what was reported was that it was either one Jew or small group of Jews that held this belief. One thing is clear, not all Jews said this belief. Therefore, it wasnt a widespread belief amongst the Jews. You may now ask, "what's the significance of it for Quran to even mention it in the first place?". Well, The Quran rebukes heretical and erroneous beliefs of the Jews and Christians, whether those beliefs are widespread or not. Gordon Newby in his book 'A history of the Jews of Arabia' says that in the book of Enoch, Uzayr was assimilated into the 'Metatron' - the creator of angel and thus was a son of God. This is an ancient debate between the rabbinic and kararite Jews. Try to research more thoroughly next time. Gordon D. Newby is acclaimed specialist in Islamic, Jewish and Comparative Studies in the Department of Middle Eastern and South Asian Studies and a Professor in the Graduate Program of West and South Asian Religions. He is still alive and probably held the belief. It is the same way unitarian christianity is not common amongst christians. If a christian denies Jesus is God in the presence of many christians today, you would think such christian is a muslim. So it was minority Jews who held the belief. Therefore, it could not have made it to mainstream Jewish text but Quran captured it.

I am not re-visiting the issue of the 'Trinity' except for the fact that you brough it up again. My only question to you was, for you, to explain Mohammed's cocept of the Trinity, using the quran and the hadith, and relate same to the Christian's concept. This is allow us have a better understanding of the source of the doctrinal confusions will see in terms of Mohammed's claims/objections on the subject of the Trinity.

Here we go again. Qur'an did not say 'trinity' or place Mary in that concept. This is what Quran says “And when Allah saith: O Jesus, son of Mary! Didst thou say unto mankind: Take me and my mother for two gods beside Allah? 5:116

So it is evangelical christians that twisted words of Quran saying Quran say Mary is part of the trinity. This is your conclusion not Quran. But this doesn't mean there aren't christians in history who held this belief just like the story of Ezra which was held by minority Jews. In the same fashion, some christians might but Quran did not say Mary was part of trinity.

You are muddling things up here. Grave worship, reverencing animate/inanimate objects (like kissing the black stone), visiting a graveyard as a religious functions (like a form of necromancy and ancestral worship) are all idolatry. To Muslims some of the practices might be ok, but to the Christians, they are idol worship. As i said earlier, kissing black stone and running around an inanimate object (7 times around the kabba) was practiced (as still being practiced) by the Hindus long before Islam, so what makes Islamic practice right and Hinduism wrong in terms of these two similar practices, of which Islam even borrowed from the Hindus here.

"grave worship". Who is talking about grave worship?. I said ziyara to the grave i:e visitation. You cant tell the difference?. Kissing Kaaba or stone is not worship. They are sunnah just like is recommended that after we make wudu, anytime we want to read Quran, we should kiss it. You haven't seen muslims kissed Quran?. They worship Wura in the context?. Kissin of Quran and kissing black stone are in the same context.

There are so many scientific, geographical and historical mistakes in the quran. If you care I can provide them to you. Stop making a bold claim you cannot defend.

bold is meant to scare me off?. Instead of asking me first, why not simply post those "many mistakes"?

Christianity, at the height of the papal power was bloody, especially the time of the crusade and the inquisition. Christianity, to the Pope (the papal power), is a political rather than a spiritual institution hence using religion as a political tool for oppression and even murder.

This is true christianity. You can not understand Bible Jesus better than them. What you have now is separation of power which is against Jesus teachings. Jesus tried to enforce his political power of them and of course he was thier spiritual rabbi. Why did modern christianity separated the two?. You must be fake christian. The height of papal power was true christianity. They combined Old and New Testaments but you ran away from OT.

Islam, since inception, has been fraught with blood and warfare, from the time of Mohammed, the time of the rightly guided caliphate, till the time of the Ottoman empire. It is, as a matter of religious duty to fight for the cause of Allah, especially against the Dar al-Harb (house of war, land not yet conquured by Islam). Christianity, unlike Islam, does not divide the qorld into Dar al-Harb (house of war) and Dar-salam (house of peace, lands under Islamic rule)

Dont worry about islam. You just confirmed christianity is bloody religion ffron inception, too. Why are you trying to single out islam?

I have already quoted an hadith by Ibn majjah (an Islamic source document) why the verse of stoning was not included in the quran. Besides, there are many hadith narrations in sahih bukari (deemed authentic) that contains many narrations that sanctioned stoning as a form of punishment for adultery. If the compilers of the quran excluded it from the quran, it is never my fault.

Again, i still dont understand why you singled out islam when it is written clearly in your Bible that punishment for adultery is stoning to death. Why is this significant?. But if you claimed it was expunged from Quran to prove its distortion, the only evidence you can effectively bring is prophet muhammad himself. What you read in sahih Bukhari and ibn majah were simply narrations of incidents before verse of flogging was revealed. Even what is generally understood is that if a verse of Quran was cancelled, it is still in the Quran. But in this case you're saying verse of stoning was overridden or expunged from Quran. This is false regardless of narrations you read.

LadunaI:
Wow! That is interesting. The truth is, I do the same 're-reading most of our posts here, and I continued to gained more insight. Infact the last time I was stucked at pg 5 trying to drive home the concept of ruyaniya based on different post and stories you and Ikupakuti have said on that issue.

Pls do try and be posting more on ihzan as the writer of that email said, I will always try to chipping my little contribution because that's when I get enthused posting, as most of discussion/topic here hardly get my spirit "resonates" lol.

Perhaps you can start telling us more about those heart melting stories. I was totally carried away last time reading how meticulously you wrote those stories you narrated to us then. You're always a good narrator though

Lol...I just try to remember as much as I can. Some of them faded away or slightly remember full incident like encounters with alagemo at ijebu ode btw 1990-92. I was present outside with my younger brother when that happened.

Just couldn't remember everything unless I ask my sheikh. As for Alfa I told you about in (ilorin base) regarding this previous conversation

LadunaI:
This was exactly the position of Imam Ghazali(ra) then before he decided to engage more on tasaawuf inorder to experience it, and them see if there is any substance in Sufis claim. The Imam got more than he bargained for and he was convinced about the veracity of Sufi experience. However, he was guided more because of his deep knowledge of sharia Islamic jurisprudence hence able to avoid pitfalls many Sufi fell into.



I think I love this intention, and perhaps this will serves as a safeguard not to fall into shirk really. But they normally lack the will power to follow thru to see for themselves if those claims are true or false.

Actually am still struggling to differentiate these entities. I am kinda leaning towards belief that generally a Muslims jinn are called rawaniya. Coincidentally, 2 days ago when I was going thru our discussion on previous thread I was particularly stuck at Khodam/ruhaniya stuff trying to do more research on it. I haven't got enough evidence or material on it as I really like. Hopefully with time am going to get more stuffs on it.

He's learned obviously. He told me some stuff and clarifications on the issue of alagbigba (ayewo) and istikhara and ruhaniyun. He insisted ruhaniyun are not Jinn. Plus my Sheikh said jinn give lots of charm than Dua.

His conclusion was that the bottom line is belief system. As long as it is not corrupted. As in judgment is clouded and you start seeing everything is God or rely on Angels, Jinn, ruhaniya or whatever besides Allah. That's where problems kick in. He said differences today are very simple to resolve but it won't bcus everyone wants to draw crowd to their ideology