₦airaland Forum

sagenaija:
[s]Enjoy this:
https://youtu.....be/o-SNEauif1c[/s]

true2god:
Maybe the dictionary meaning for 'translation' is different from the Islamic meaning which often is the case. So if the quran was written in Chinese you will hold Chinese language in pre-eminence over any language?

Don't be a hypocrite! Many Muslims also study the Bible (not to become Christians) to attacks Christianity. So what is wrong if others are doing the same.

Remember the quran also condemn the Jews for saying 'Ezra is the son of Allah' (quran 9:30), where was it written in the Torah and where did Mohamed get this teaching from?

Yes, Mohammed condemned the doctrine of the Trinity but I asked you to explain Mohammed's concept of the Trinity, using the quran and the hadith, and you refused to respond. Mohammed did not understand the concept of the Trinity in the first place and how can one condemn a concept he/she has no full knowledge of?

The Jews and the christians can also call muslims idolaters for some of their rituals and practices such as kissing the black stone and running around the kabba which are pre-islamic hindu practices and is still being practiced by the hindus till date (I can provide evidence for this if you want me to). Even Umar ibn kathab knew this act to be idolatery but decided to practice it because the Mohammed also did same (sahih bukhari 2:56:667, sahih bukari 2:26:675 & 679). Even quran 5:90 condemn this practice but Mohammed made it ok.

I like the fact that you aknowledge the fact that all Islamic source documents: the hadith, the sunnah, the seerah, the tafsir, etc are never free from numerous errors. The only issue I have is that your attempt to exempt the quran from the list. We have discussed this before, can we start mentioning various errors on the quran? We can start with this thread opened by 'Tintinz' :https://www.nairaland.com/5095109/myths-quran

I have studied enough of Islamic history and it was too bloody for me to continue.

The Jews did not accept him hence he decided on their final solution: sahih muslim 1767 (this is also recorded by Imam Bukari).

Dont blame the Jews and the Christians for Mohammed's instructions and sunnah which were extensively recorded in the hadith (sahih bukhari 6:60:79, sahih bukhari 83:37, sahih muslim 17:4196, sahih muslim 17:4206, sahih muslim 17:4209, etc). The verse for stoning was revealed but Aisha refused to drop the manuscript when the quran was being complied (sunnah ibn majjah 3:9:1944). Why did she do that? I will provide the response later. KEEP WATCHING!!!

dannybee:
How do we verify this your news?

sagenaija:
We got here when you I asked you about your Islamic spirituality and you couldn’t give an answer.

Dalexicographer:
Have sense

Empiree:
Nigeriawillbe greatatlast


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This infuriated the duo and hence vowed to remove him and frustrate his regime. News have it now that president Buhari wants to implement this before the inauguration of the newly elected assembly members and this may also brew a little resistance if Nigerians keep quiet about it. In view of the above, everyone who receives this and believes in this attempt by PMB to make the office less attractive should endeavor to circulate it.

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true2god:
You cannot use an isolated word, out of thousands of words in the quran, to make a general statement and draw a conclusion.

All I see you do is an attempt to elevate a foreign language as a result of the attachment you have with the religion associated with the language.

I am learning Islam, not to be a muslim, but to point out the limitations in the religion which, to me, is fair enough. Islam/Muslims are also doing the same to/on other religions.

At time I dont what to believe in Islam, the quran, mohammed or the sahabas. If the quran asked us not to drink or gamble I am very sure you wont bring us various hadith to explain this to me but anytime a possible islamic-critical verse is found in the quran, muslims start searching the seerah and the hadith to expain away the simple instruction from Allah. This is hypocrisy and a high level intellectual dishonesty on the part of my muslim friends. It is a general rule in islam that anywhere the hadith negates the quran, that hadith narration must be rejected as unauthentic, why the double standard?

This is a subjective opinion. Just as the Muslims believed that the Jews have incurred the wrath of Allah and the Christians have gone astray (surah al-fathia 6-7), the same way the Jews and the Christians view Islam as idolatry because of some paganism in Islam such as kissing the black stone, running around the kabba, etc.

Ibn Majjah is neither a jew nor a christian and besides his hadith is also graded as sahih. Why are denying any hadith narration that seems to be an embarrassment to islam?

Allah's opinion.

One misguided rabbi cannot be the face of the believing Jew, the same way you will argue that a Muslim convert to Christianity is a fake Muslim. I was expecting you to validate Mohammed's prophethood using the Torah and the Injil.

sagenaija:
Lol!

Please don’t let me laugh so much that I will be hungry this morning earlier than I normally am.

A parrot is a bird that is known to NATURALLY have the ability to imitate speech.

So, this again confirms my position that you people come up with a lot of outside-the-koran and even ridiculous things. And to what end?

This is what Christian Prince points out. To date no single Moslem of the highest order has been able to successfully refute him.

EVERYBODY familiar with the parrot know that the parrot can imitate people’s words. It’s a common knowledge. It does not take a miracle for it to do so.

Empi.ree, you really think it’s a miracle? Really?

When we make statements about Islam we back it up – even from your own books.

When you make claims, you are unable to back them up. You just want the claims to be accepted – hook line and sinker.

Sometimes people act like they don’t hear but the truth is they don’t like or want what they hear. Are you in that category?

sagenaija:
You are wrong. I can't recall us saying case closed.
I asked because Moslems come up with a lot of many
things and assumptions and presumption without any
backup from Islam's books.
Look at this for example:
PYCcagw

true2god:
And I would like you mention any tafsir written by any scholar that claimed that the abrogated verses are in the Torah and the Injil. I have mentioned Ibn Kathir and Jelalyn, i would like you give your reference as well.

true2god:
It is a fact that translating any work from one language to the other has it unique challenge as some basic information could be lost but that does not nullify the fact that the information translated can still be 99.8% correct. The margin of error (0.02% or less) is always negligible and this issue is not only associated with the quran. The Torah was written in Hebrew while the Injil was written in Greek but have been widely translated into English language since English language is currently the most widely used language worldwide. Rendering the Torah and the Injil in English language does not affect the message in the original scriptures. Giving the quran a protective status because of the possible flaws associated with translation does not make sense. Besides, people like Yusuf Ali and Picktail has a great scholarship in Arabic language and their translations are believed to be as accurate as possible. If your position is that their translations were rather interpretation/explanation that do not convey, in absoluteness, the messages of the quran, that's a big lie bro.

Being an Arab, to an extent, gives one an advantage in the knowledge of Islam than non-Arabs. Islam, aside from being a religion, is an identity, a culture and a social system to a typical Arab person. So, the commitment and knowledge a typical Arab-man (or even a Pakistani) will have on the religion cannot be overemphasized. An non-Arab must be 300% more committed to the religion than a typical arab man to be at par. On the issue of abrogation, from your argument.

This is a subjective opinion and almost all the 5 schools of Islamic school of taught will disagree with you. And again, the quran confirmed the previous scriptures and did not in any place repudiate it. Allah even asked muslim to consult previous revelation from the people of the book for guidance. Allah will not ask Muslims to consult a book that some of it contents has been abrogated. You can as well mention the abrogated verses in the Injil and Torah, and their replaced ayah in the quran.

According to Sunnah Ibn Majjah, the verse of stoning was revealed but Aisha claimed that he he-goat ate it while they were preparing for the burial of the prophet. If the hadith of Ibn Majjah is authenticate as regards this narration, it can be concluded that the compilers of the quran left out this very important detail.

The change in the direction of prayer is as a result of the disagreement the Jews had with Mohammed. Mohammed, to the jews, did not the pass the test of prophethood and besides did not come from the line of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, which all the patriarchs came from. Mohammed violated the prophetic bloodline hence was rejected by the Jews. The rejection led Mohammed to change the direction of prayer from Jerusalem to mecca. It is noteworthy that at no time had idolatry and paganism taken over Jerusalem while mecca was a place that harbors over 360 Arabian idols before the Islamic revolution of Mohammed. Why will God change the direction from a holy land to a place that formerly hosted over 360 different idols, among which is the current black stone in kabba?

sagenaija:
Can you show me where you get these from - the koran or where?

shadeyinka:
When a soul is truly lost: reasons don't make any sense!

shadeyinka:
I had closed my case a long time ago with you. The best you could have done was to punch holes into my argument or at least ask questions.

You did neither but just continue to repeat your earlier statements. You've not read the book "animal farm" by George Orwell, if you had, you would have understood the characters you are imitating

shadeyinka:
SMH.

Give either a rebuttal or ask a question. And it's difficult for you. All you can do is to repeatedly bray your memorizations.

Like "4 legs good two legs bad"

true2god:
Then, based on your submission, interpretations of the Quran is subjective based on what you understand an 'ayah' to mean. It also means that 1000 Islamic scholars can hold different opinions concerning a certain revelation in the Quran. If that's the case, don't blame denominational Christians who also hold divergent views of their scriptures.

Also, Allah said his words are VERY clear (in the Quran) but from what I can see, it is either human beings get Allah's words wrong or Allah did not clarify most of his words, especially his latter revelations.

Besides, Sheiks Adam Al-ilori is a Yoruba scholar (don't meant to diminish his scholarship in Islamic theology) while both Ibn Kathir and Jelalyn are Arab Muslims who wrote their tafsir (when there was no computer and printing machines) hundreds of years ago and painstakingly ensured that they presented the interpretations as honest and clear and possible. You cannot diminish their contributions because Ibn Kathir's work is used by over 90% of Sunni and shia Muslims worldwide. The authority his work has is unparalleled among other tafsirs of the Quran.

shadeyinka:
You don't have to agree with the doctrine of DUALITY or TRINITY of man. But my case is made.

Except you have a counter argument to which I will gladly respond to or a question which I will try to answer God helping me, the case is closed!

sagenaija:
Empiree, the thing is this:true spirituality transforms the inside of a person. Any other thing is simply ritual without reality.

True spirituality makes consideration for others top priority not SELF.

Any claim about "spirituality" that does not have the above as its focus is a dabble into occultism.

true2god:
The most famous tafsir written by Imam Ibn Kathir argued that surah 9 abrogated previous revelations. As far as I know, you have no scholarship in Islamic theology and you don't understand Islam more than either Ibn Kathir or Jelalyn (he also wrote tafsir or exegesis of the Quran). You are free to disagree, but they argued that both the abrogated ayahs and the new ayahs are all in the Quran. While I do disagree with 'username' in many argument he makes concerning religion, he has no issue looking at issues from both sides of a coin.

shadeyinka:
Human beings are complex but God is less complex!
SMH!

shadeyinka:
Human beings are complex but God is less complex!
SMH!

shadeyinka:
Case closed!
The rest from you is just the thrashing of a drowning cattle.

Some people by nature are adverse to the truth even when evidence is glaring. So, I am not one bit surprised. I have just used Islam to explain your denial.

Except you have a counter argument to which I will gladly respond to or a question which I will try to answer God helping me, the case is closed!

true2god:
It will be fair for you to understand the context surah albaqra 256. This is not a general rule for religious freedom in Islam according to the tafsir of Ibn Kathir on this ayah (quran 2:256). And again surah 9 (the last surah of the quran) of the quran abrogated all the previous surah (according to Ibn Kathir). So if you want to make a final decision on this matter, surah 9 will give you a better guide and nowhere did surah 9 advocated for religious freedom.