₦airaland Forum

shadeyinka:
I haven't insinuated anything except to explain the concept of trinity using what is acceptable in Islam and common sense. My aim was just to demonstrate the concept using human nature.

I don't know/understand what you mean by divine?
But I know that any creature that has a spirit even though has a beginning but no end. i.e. angels, human beings, demons, jinns, Shaitan, all have beginnings but no end.

seriously, you need to dump Bible studies. Or better still, go to middle East to learn christianity in Bible college. You will return to Nigeria as Muslim. This conspiracy you are trying to dig up will not avail you. Our human soul or spirit and flesh combine have nothing to do with Trinity or duality.

Your soul is what allows you to breath. The moment your soul exit your body, body is useless. And no doctors or scientists ever captured soul.

Don't allow Satan to deceive you. I was ahead of you and I knew you u wanted to end up saying duality of Jesus is proof of his Divinity which is where you are going but you are being deceptive by not going straight to the point.

There is nothing like Trinity. It is a false concept and idea propagated by Paul.

Nigeriawillbe greatatlast


The great people of Nigeria, the time has come to finally liberate the country from the hands of the oppressors. The major reasons why the outgoing National Assembly /Senate led by Dr Bukola Saraki and Hon. Dogara were determined to oust president Muhammad Buhari at all cost has eventually been revealed. PMB, having looked critically at the situation of Nigeria at the inception of his administration in 2015, information had it that he mistakenly made his intention to slash the salary of the federal law makers to be equivalent to a Permanent Secretary ( PS) known to the house leaderships.

This infuriated the duo and hence vowed to remove him and frustrate his regime. News have it now that president Buhari wants to implement this before the inauguration of the newly elected assembly members and this may also brew a little resistance if Nigerians keep quiet about it. In view of the above, everyone who receives this and believes in this attempt by PMB to make the office less attractive should endeavor to circulate it.

Only by this that the politicians can be called to order and the current ideas of do or die politics will be reduced, thereby making ways for true national development. If you believe in this formula, please pass it and let it get a wider coverage.

*@#info#Nigeriamust begreatagain#*

partnerbizz4:
Wicked abacha

is there any difference now?. Don't you have wicked politicians in your so called democracy?. Nigeria is worst now compared to military regime. There was law and order. Yes, law could be harsh but no nonsense like today. So leave abacha some. He was long gone and your current politicians'stent better.

shadeyinka:
Good!
The Soul will speak!

1. The Soul is invisible to Man but NOT to God only the Body is visible to Man.
2. God judges the Soul for whatever the Body has done here on earth.

We can conclude that Human beings seem to have two identities which represents Himself.
1. His body (while upon the earth) : for with the body he does Good or Bad. With His body he serves God on Earth.
2. His Soul (while dead): for with his soul, he Decided, Lust and Thought about doing good or evil while on earth.

This is the simplest explanation of DUALITY of man.
It is still the same ONE man but but existing with TWO Different IDENTITIES.

You don't have to agree with the doctrine of DUALITY or TRINITY. But you need to understand what Christians mean. It is certainly not like adding 1+1+1= 1 as you think.

On the day of resurrection: which Muslims also believe, God will join back the Body and Soul of man for judgement sake in Paradise or Hell (different from the bliss or torment of the grave)

As salaam Aleikum!

And your point is?

Because of your analysis of duality of man, which you tried to connect to Trinity to derive Divinity of Jesus, means that we can also agree that ordinary man is Divine as well?. Fair?.

Listen, shaitan is playing prank with you, buddy.

sagenaija:
Just to school you a little based on your own statement. I know you want to resort to ridicule but lets see who’s ill-advised or not.

When you rightly ‘describe’ something to a blind man he can understand what you mean. It is only if you are not able to correctly ‘describe’ the thing to the blind that he may not understand what you mean. If you lack the capacity to explain, then the blind man may not SEE with you; otherwise it is possible to ‘communicate’ to a blind man for him to SEE what you mean.

All I see in the koran are physical rituals. Any resort to anything else is a creation of Moslems not of the koran.

it is your problem. There is Islamic spirituality. If you don't believe it means you don't understand Qur'an. What is tazkiya?. What is dhikr?. What is Ihsan?. What is tassawuf?.

These terms are essence of spirituality in Islam. And you find bunch of terms in the Hadith.

Islamic spirituality is not detached from everyday practices of Muslims. It is integral part of the religion. Take it or leave it.

shadeyinka:
The question is too simple and direct to be missed or misunderstood. Don't be like that he ostrich who hide it's head under the sand.

1. Are you implying that the person who is questioned by the angels is the SOUL of the dead person?
2. If it is the Soul, does it imply that just as the Body, the soul can hear and can speak and can fee?

We all know God can do anything but that's not the answer.

I know where you are going with this but I am not gonna succumb to your belief. Yes, soul will speak and everything will hear except you and I (humans)

shadeyinka:
The hadith you mentioned, I have also read. However, when the angels wake up the dead, is it physically or spiritually. If it is Physically, it is possible to monitor when the angel will do his deeds. Or what do you think?

I expected this question and you didn't disappoint. This is your homework. Next time someone dies in your family (no insult intended), after he/she his buried, kindly try to find out. You may have first hand experience. We never know.

But then, How do we explain what happens to those who have no grave probably because they were eaten up by wild animals?

Even if they accidentally born in house fire to ashes or cremate themselves, the One who created them when they were nothing is capable of doing anything He wants.


Reflect on this


And they say, "When we are bones and crumbled particles, will we [truly] be resurrected as a new creation?" surah Isra 49



Or [any] creation of that which is great within your breasts." And they will say, "Who will restore us?" Say, "He who brought you forth the first time." Then they will nod their heads toward you and say, "When is that?" Say, "Perhaps it will be soon - Isra 50

shadeyinka:
Why is an obvious truth difficult for you to relate to. Forget the word, trinity:you don't have to agree with the usage of the word but answer the questions given.

Better still: Helping you out by your indirect reply:

1. Are you implying that the person who is questioned by the angels is the SOUL of the dead person?
2. If it is the Soul, does it imply that just as the Body, the soul can hear and can speak and can fee?

The two questions above requires either a YES or NO answer.

we have a Hadith narration which says that angels wake up the dead after burial, sit him down and start questioning him.

When the soul gets punished, the body feels the impact. But if flesh body turn dust, say in 10 years after burying the person you exhumed him and find only bones. This is not evidence of punishment. Righteous believers also turn dust bcus Quran said in sura Tãhã from the Earth We created you. In the Earth We shall return you and from the Earth We shall bring you out one more time

So clearly if body returns to dust, whether believer or not is not evidence of punishment. If God doesn't allow disbeliever's flesh body to turn dust for decades, He only preserves him for wicked people to see what He is capable of.

Pharaoh comes to mind

And Allaah knows Best

shadeyinka:
The question is not even about God for now. If you don't understand the trinity of man, how can you understand the trinity of God.

And you are avoiding to answer truthfully my questions
A man doesn't have a grave because he was eaten by 20 lions or he was burn to smokes:
In that sense, with what ear will the dead hear the angels?
With what mouth with the dead respond to the angels?
With what body would the dead experience both torment or bliss as the case may be?

What is difficult in answering these simple direct questions?
Or better still
Is it the body of the dead that will physically speak or his soul?

you will soon be ignored. What's Trinity gotta do with man's flesh, body and soul?. It is you that break it down that way because that's what you believe. Everything you highlighted has nothing to do with how man speaks at interrogation in the grave.

Body and flesh are nothing but maggots food. They belong to dust(earth) and they return there. Your soul is what God deals with. And this has nothing to do with Trinity. Stop digging irrational conspiracy theories.

shadeyinka:
Either you are feigning dumbness or deliberately Ignorant! God will deliver you. I asked simple question any rational being will be able to see justice to and rather than answer the plain questions


I am sure you'll agree with me that the complete destruction of the body does not prevent these two angels from doing the needful.

A man doesn't have a grave because he was eaten by 20 lions or he was burn to smokes:
In that sense, with what ear will the dead hear the angels?
With what mouth with the dead respond to the angels?
With what body would the dead experience both torment or bliss as the case may be?

What is difficult in answering these simple direct questions?

how does this make him God?. Even if I was to agree with your insinuation, it means not only Jesus had duality. It means humans too are divine by your logic. Listen, God is not difficult to understand. He discribed Himself. All these nonsense you are trying to sell me that Jesus is God in flesh and water and body and spirit and this and that make no sense. God is separate entity. Jesus was His prophet and messanger.

Your only response, Ruh is a complex theory. Is the Arabic word Ruh a theory? I deliberately used the word for I I had used Soul/Spirit, you would have feigned even greater ignorance.

And they ask you (O Muhammad SAW) concerning the Ruh (the Spirit); Say: "The Ruh (the Spirit): it is one of the things, the knowledge of which is only with my Lord. And of knowledge, you (mankind) have been given only a little." Sura Isra 85

To Boda:
Does Human beings have the Ruh and what is it?



!!

what it means by DEATH is when soul extracts from the body. All human beings have soul. This same soul is infused in you when you were in womb. So what's confusing you here?

sagenaija:
Any claim about Islamic spirituality is more adventure into occultism.

It just shows how you Moslems try to redefine your religion.

The koran nowhere prescribed that for you Moslems.

Prove me wrong on this.

prove you wrong?. Hell no. That's like discribing something to a blind man. How can blind man sees?. I need not waste my time if you think there is no Islamic spirituality

shadeyinka:
I am not even going that far. All I want to establish is that no evil person can escape the questioning of the two Angels.

Hence,


I am sure you'll agree with me that the complete destruction of the body does not prevent these two angels from doing the needful.

In that sense, with what ear will the dead hear the angels?
With what mouth with the dead respond to the angels?
With what body would the dead experience both torment or bliss as the case may be?

smh. I am sure you are going somewhere with this. Perhaps, trying to dig up some conspiracy about Jesus bcus i have heard something similar. So let's see what you got. So to answer this briefly, all these you said means nothing to God or Angels. Is the Lord who created you out of nothing can't do this?. This brings us back to our earlier discussion that you can not translate God's word. So all these you mention belong to earth where they came from in the first place. They mean nothing in the Divine presence. You will speak from that ashes, from that dust or whatever you turned to.

If you would be truthful, it seems like every human being possess at least two personalities:
1. The physical person (us that is known on earth)
2. The non physical person (Ruh)
and both of them seems to be the same single person.

Ruh is a complex theory. Ruh is described in the Quran in various forms. The detail is only known to God.

So, the Ruh has ears, mouth, body, feelings etc.

The Ruh of a man answers for the evil that the physical person did on earth without complaints.
In Hell fire, the physical body answers for the evil conceived by the Ruh.

In other words, even though the body and the Ruh have different attributes, they are essentially one and the same person.

With this, I believe you understand the concept of DUALITY of Human Beings.

this theory of yours, ehen

However, the bible teaches that human beings are Trinities comprising:
A Body: Physical Identity
A Soul: Internal/Self Identity
A Spirit: Spiritual Identity

The three is One and the same Person. If you can understand the Duality of man not like making 1+1=2, then you can understand what Trinity means.

Didnt i say it I knew you were up to something. Keep going.

About God as Trinity:
God is the Father: who plans and wills everything into being
God is the Word: who spoke by command everything into being
God is the Spirit: who brought by power everything into being

catastrophe! Spirit is a loose word. It has different definitions. Angels are called spirit. Jinns, strange creatures, and all unseen you can think of are called spirit. So God is not spirit. This analogy you are making is gonna make you look ridiculous eventually.

Of course, God doesn't have a mouth like you and me. He doesn't need a mouth to speak.

.
John 1:1-5:
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
He was in [the] beginning with God. All things came into being through Him, and without Him not even one [thing] came into being that has come into being. In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not overtake it."

John 1:14: "And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us. And we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of [the] Father, full of grace and of truth."

you are about to get confused yet?. If this makes sense to you, i pity you John 1:14 alone i can use to confuse you for good

shadeyinka:
You didn't answer the question!
Can any man through any action escape the questioning of the angels ?

By default, no. However, we also have narration in islam whereby some people are waived. But this depends on level of religiosity (righteousness) of the person. Like for instance, those read recited Quran often especially certain chapters or verses. When they are in the grave, and the two angels appears for questioning, "a man" appears before the angels to defend such muslims. This "man" is "attorney answering questions on his or her behalf. This "man" is Quran that you recited and abided by when you were alive. Get it?. Did i answer you?. So you keep your mouth shut while Quran defends you. So yes, we have attorney in the grave too.

shadeyinka:
Thank you for your honest answer and like I promised, I have no intention of using it against you. I just wanted us to be on the same page.

You really can't use it against me. This is authentic narration. So let's see where you are driving at.

Now, suppose either:
1. I was eaten up by 20 lions
2. I told my people not to bury me so that I don't have a grave and that they should burn me to smokes in a furnace
3. I told my people to put my corpse in a freezer for a thousand years
4. I told my people not to bury me nor leave my side so that because of their presence, the angels wouldn't be able to ask any questions etc

If I did these So that I can escape the torment of the grave, can I escape the questioning of the two Angels?

Lol, this makes sense to you?. Whether body is burnt to ashes, devoured by lions, placed in the freezer a billion years, or have your relatives stay by your copse till eternal, none of these concern Angels. If Angel can take your soul in the midst of gathering, on soccer field, at conference, during marriage or naming, during prayers etc, why do you think it is difficult for Angels to question your soul after death?. As you are using your computer right now, there are presence of Angels with you but you can't perceive them. So everything you said doesn't bother angels one bit.

shadeyinka:
Is this correct? You seem to be afraid over Nothing because you don't know where I am going. But please don't be afraid. I wouldn't use it against you..that's a promise
I just want us to be on the same page.

The statement for confirmation here again:

According to you Muslims, when a man dies, two angels will come to him and ask him three basic question
i. What is your religion?
ii. Who was your prophet?
iii. Who is your Lord?
If he replies appropriately as : Islam-Prophet Mohammed-Allah, his state in the grave would be made pleasant. Otherwise, it would be made difficult.


I am aware that some Muslims say 5 questions, but that's not the issue. Like I said, I am not trying to argue on the claims but for us to agree and be on the same page

I guess you want to hear me "Yes, it is correct". If that is the exact answer you wanted, then, yes, it is correct. I have answered you like 3 times already. Dont know how you dont get it. However, you didnt put it chronologically. First question will always be "Who is your Lord?"

And ofcourse, there is possibility that there are more questions due to hadith given to us. We learned that some people will be questioned for 3 days. Some 7days and some for 40 days. This is why some scholars said to said there is 40 days prayers for the deceased to lessen sufferings to be able to meet challenges.

shadeyinka:
And I said can you confirm if this is correct!



If it isn't correct, can you please state a more appropriate and correct version?

I already told you there is questioning in the grave. If you talking about version(s), that does not refute the fact that there is questioning in the grave. Whats your motives on this?

sagenaija:
Understanding a thing does not mean acceptance.

I can understand what a monarchy means but I may not accept it as the best form or even a good form of government. So, refusal to accept a word or thing does not equate to lack of understanding of it.

Again, to repeat myself: Granted that a word in one language may not have the direct equivalent in another, a way can still be found to express the same meaning in the other language. In other words, where there is no equivalent word, concepts, illustrations or some other expressions can always be used to communicate meaning.

Once you can explain a word, even if you cannot directly translate it to another language, and that explanation is understood, then it is understood. Acceptance of the issue is completely something else.

you have just summed up what I have been saying. I never said God's words can not be explained. I said it can not be translated but can only be explained which you just agreed with. Case closed. You tried your possible best to give another word not you failed in the process. Again, God's words can only be explained not translated because His words are infinite. Case closed

Btw, there is no spiritual benefit in Islam for recitation. Everything in Islam is about the physical. Any perceived 'spiritual' dimension is something else that is not in the koran.

You are 1 million percent behind on spirituality. You never heard of Islamic spirituality?. You are joking right?. It is called Ihsan/tassawuf/sufism. We also have tawil (interpretation). So there are plenty of spiritual benefits in Islam. Don't let your fellow CHRISTIAN hear this. They will mock your ignorance.

shadeyinka:
I am waiting for your correction on the dialogue between the dead person in the grave and the two angels.

Thanks

what correction?. You simply asked me if there are questioning in the grave and I said yes. What more you want?

shadeyinka:
I think it is you who have God located in space yonder.
To you, God is bound in an "unknown where" only His attributes transcend space. I am sure you don't know this God of Abraham.

God is fully present everywhere: Omnipresent God.

God doesnt have location or place. Quran says God rose over His Throne to indicate He is not within the creation in Himself. But it doesn't mean God is sitting on His throne to control affairs down here. He is everywhere by His absolute Attribute and knowledge. That's what it means by God is everywhere.

I hope this is a correct view of your belief?
According to you Muslims, when a man dies, two angels will come to him and ask him three basic question
i. What is your religion?
ii. Who was your prophet?
iii. Who is your Lord?
If he replies appropriately as : Islam-Prophet Mohammed-Allah, his state in the grave would be made pleasant. Otherwise, it would be made difficult.

Is this a correct representation of what you believe?



I just showed you in black and white from your Qur'an about the definition of Trinity by the author of the Qur'an. I'm sure you have a superfluous explanation of how Allah was speaking in "third person singular verb"! LOL

coming for you and tru2god later on this. Seems you dont get it.

plainbibletruth:
We defended and explained the trinity very well.
Whether you accepted our clear explanations is another thing entirely.

Let me give you a simple illustration:
The sun has light, the sun has heat and the sun has actinic property.
Can we say the sun is 3 in 1? Yes. Is the sun one or three? One.

The trinity is neither an absurdity or impossibility. It's only those who refuse to accept the plain truth are those believing in absurdities.

You have started against with SUN is light, heat and actinic property. You reduced God to this? smh when your Bible clearly shows you different attributes of God from Jesus. Clearly shows God's beginning is unknown but Jesus's beginning was known. I remembered that thread and you got confused. I guess you re-read your own posts and you realized how senseless they are.

true2god:
The issue is that Mohammed himself did not understand the concept of the 'Trinity'. Mohammaed taught that the Trinity consist of The father (God almighty), the son (Jesus) and Mary. And to make it worst, Mohamed even taught that the Jews took Ezra as the son of Allah (Quran 9:30).

1 Corinthians 1:18-31, yes the preaching of the nature and personality of Christ is foolishness to them that perish....

I dey come for you later. I know you stubborn despite sorting this out years ago. You just wanna get whipped all over again, correct?

You forgot those threads from 2014-2015?

shadeyinka:
Explanation is part of translation of you don't know. Must there be a word for word equivalence before translations can be done?

Is there a word for Snow in Yoruba or Hausa?
But can a European not convey the meaning in Yoruba or Hausa to say that "It snowed Heavily in London to a depth of 5m".

Don't bring our intelligence down to the level of impossibilites.

If Arabic cannot be translated into other languages, then it is the worst language Allah could have chosen to convey His words to men

you have concurred. Now we can move to next level. You have just understood when I said Allah's word can not be translated.

shadeyinka:
You or Islam implies that God cannot be in two different places at the same time.
Since you dont understand. If God is truely closer to us than the Jagular vein of our necks and Servants of God are all over the world, doesnt it imply that God can be fully at a billion place at the same time.

If you disagree with this, you have just simply LOCALISED GOD.
but God cant be localised. Thats why He is Omnipresent (Fully Present Everywhere in the Universe: seen and unseen)

this you conjured for yourself to feel good. If this is your opinion so be it. You can go ahead with your localized God

So, where is God?
Since as you claim, "only His attributes" encompasses all things.

Simple. He is where He is. ABOVE ALL HIS CREATIONS. He exist outside of since time time and not bound by anything.

I prefer to combine it with the quote below.



Before I give you evidence or clarification on this, please answer truthfully this question.

Do you believe in the questioning of the dead in the grave by the two Angels of Allah?

shifting goalpost against when you can no longer handle the pressure?. Kpele. Absolutely, there are questions to be asked in the grave by the Angels by the permission of Allah.

Quran5:116
And [beware the Day] when Allah will say, "O Jesus, Son of Mary, did you say to the people, 'Take me and my mother as deities besides Allah ?'" He will say, "Exalted are You! It was not for me to say that to which I have no right. If I had said it, You would have known it. You know what is within myself, and I do not know what is within Yourself. Indeed, it is You who is Knower of the unseen. I said not to them except what You commanded me - to worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord.

The author of the Qur'an believe that Trinity is
Allah
Jesus and
Mary

I know how evangelism works. This is what they do when they can't handle subject of discussion by shifting here and there. I am not interested in this topic at this time. All these things you are saying have been critically explained. We even did on this platform years ago. So I am putting this aside until you are decimated on the bone of contention

shadeyinka:
If I get you correctly,
Huwa: Non Sexist Gender pronoun used to describe God or Angels

Unfortunately, this concept is understood even in English language.

Why is a ship referred to as SHE! Rather than it?
Or a Country referred to as HER! Rather than it?

Could it be that the ship or a country is a woman?

There is no untranslatable language in this world unless the most primitive and archaic of languages.

you are yet to agree to the fact that Ahad had no English translation. It can only be explained?. This one you brought up, you said yourself that it is "understood" in English. You didn't say it is the precise translation.

shadeyinka:
The problem with Islam is boxing God in the limitations of men!

see you again. If you have been reading my replied posts, you wouldn't say Islam "boxes God in the limitations of men". That's the least thing we believe in Islam. Clearly you don't understand anything.

How can God be closer to us than our Jagular vein and Yet be everywhere in the universe?

you are jumping to another topic. God is indeed closer to us than our jagular vein. He's not everywhere in His person. He's everywhere by God's Absolute Attribute that encompasses all things.

If you can't understand the Trinity of Man, how can you understand the Trinity of God?

o ya, explain yourself. I am sure by the time you type 3-5 lines you will find yourself in total confusion. The time starts now

Even Islam unwittingly shows at least the Duality of Man!

clarification and evidence please ?.

Even the author of the Qur'an was confusingly wrong about trinity: insinuating that the trinity consists of
God
Jesus and
Mary.

when you have been cornerned you are now shivering and gasping on straw

shadeyinka:
Maybe you only understand yourself. I just stated that I understand "Ahad"....if I can understand that, then, I can understand anything translated from Arabic.

Pretence and inability to ask questions is a big big problem

sorry bro. You can't understand Ahad and still believe in Trinity. That's two opposing views. I said before and will say it again that you can not translate Allah's words. You can only explain it. Another example is "He" used for "Huwa". He in English translation is not male. Rather translators used closest English word. No English word for "Huwa" without losing it original intended Arabic meaning as revealed in the Qur'an. Just as "he" is used for angels. Angels are neither male or female. So you can see why I said you can not translate Allah's word.

shadeyinka:
If you are insinuating "Trinity" then it is you who doesn't understand anything. You have simply boxed the almighty God into the 3D limitations of men!

we already trashed Trinity concept on this platform years ago. Ask true2god and plainbiblettruth and others. They couldn't defend it. Therefore, for you to believe in Trinity and claim to know what Ahad means, then your are facing serious dilemma. So now you can understand why I said Allah's word can not be translated. Because you guys messed up and confused 3 in 1 either in numerical sense or otherwise. However you guys explain the concept of Trinity will always choke you because of distortions in your book.

Therefore, you do not understand ku huwa Allah Ahad

shadeyinka:
Maybe you only understand yourself. I just stated that I understand "Ahad"....if I can understand that, then, Ican understand anything translated from Arabic.

Alhamdululah... You said you understand Ahad. In that case, if you truly understand Ahad, and at the same time you believe Jesus is God or son of God, then you don't understand Ahad. See what I am saying?. You can't understand Ahad and remain Christian. This is obvious contradiction

sagenaija:
When a person communicates, like we doing right now, he does so to be understood.

Granted that a word in one language may not have the direct equivalent in another, a way can still be found to express the same meaning in the other language. In other words, where there is no equivalent word, concepts, illustrations or some other expressions can always be used to communicate meaning.

Allah more than anyone else knows that there is multiplicity of languages. To now insist that all must learn one single language before they can understand him means there is something wrong somewhere.

To answer your question on 'Ahad':
Yes! Most definitely. The word “UNIQUE” is a good fit.

I can use other sentences to explain the same thing you have stated but I think that, to prove my point, that word – UNIQUE – does justice to it. Have I helped you understand your koran or Arabic better?
PS:
You may wish to see this -
Christian Prince Allah is ONE ONE WHAT
Christian Prince claims here that Moslems need to know more about their Allah.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_P9zPz9bfp8

nice try. But let me bring your attention to your fellow CHRISTIAN who called himself plainbiblettruth, said during our back to discussions. He attributed UNIQUE to Jesus that there is none like him despite obvious limitations attributed to Jesus in your Bible. So unique in this sense is not ahad but for translation purposes, we understand what UNIQUE means.

Let me ask you a question. Do you now believe that Allah is God. The One, The Unique and The Absolute?. I asked bcuz your are speaking the and acknowledging Allah's Superiority in the name of trying to rebuke me.

Yes, Allah knows multiplicity of languages and I never said it is a must to learn Arabic to understand. Knowing Arabic simply gives you A+ but doesn't guarantee knowledge of the book. There are many Arabs who don't understand Qur'an and Quran is revealed in their language. Again, I do not have problem with the word "Unique". I am simply saying that it could be attributed to something or someone which eventually changes the intended meaning. Like for instance, dictionary says unique means a special person. Implication here is Allah is not a person or thing.

Again, I do not have problems with Quran being translated to other languages. But I am saying translated Qur'an is not Quran but explanation of the meaning. Quran, for recitation purposes is better recited as revealed for spiritual benefits. None Arabic speakers can always have translation side by side.

shadeyinka:
I am amazed at you.
You just translated/conveyed the meaning of Ahad into English. And I honestly understand what is meant.

So why do you insist that the Arabic language of the Qur'an cannot be translated?

see what I'm saying?. See why I said if you don't understand I can't help you?. Let me leave you here for now

true2god:
Highlight all the basic tenets of Islam and let us dissect them one by one. Even demons also believe in one God (James 2:19), so what difference does it make? And FYI, as part of the basic tenets of Islam, mohammed is assumed as the 'last' and 'seal' of all prophets but the ahmadiyyas will disagree with you. Are the ahmadiyyas not true muslims?

Nope. The rest of the Muslims disagree with them on this. And this is not tenet. Ahmadiyyah simply gave interpretation where there is none

sagenaija:
You need to watch Christian Prince demolish all these your arguments.

So, the koran is no more plain or easy to read.

It now takes “43 possible reasons” to understand the koran? Amazing!

Do you now see why I mentioned resort to the esoteric?

What you are simply saying is that unless a person understands the ‘secret’ to the koran it is impossible to know it. And who has the secrets to it? Whichever ‘scholar’ is perceived as the more acceptable one at any point in time. And to what end? To justify the indefensible.
If we require ‘scholars’ to decipher the hidden meaning of the koran which is out of the plain site of the ordinary Moslem can’t we say that these ‘scholars’ are post-Mohamed messengers of Allah sent to make clear Allah’s words to his people? In other words, Allah has other messengers after Mohamed.

So, according to you the koran then is the words of Allah who may be speaking for himself of speaking on the behalf of any other creature like man. We only need to discover the ‘secret’ to any particular verse or chapter in order to decipher how to understand and interpret that portion. Again, amazing! Don’t you think.

In addition, the first revelation does not come first in the book of Allah that was always existing in heaven. So, Allah pays no attention to order. He really doesn’t want to make himself clear and straightforward to his people. He must obscure things.
It will now take the hadiths to tell, like in this first chapter, which portion of the chapter is divided between Allah and his servant(?) or is it his creatures since you also mentioned polytheists.

At the end of the day then koran is not a plainly revealed book; a statement that would clearly contradict its own claim. But to people like you it’s not a contradiction; it’s plain to those who search out the secret for understanding it. A secret only a few can acquire. It becomes plain after a lot of digging out its secret so its plain.
I hope I have succeeded in summarising your position.

who is talking about "secrets" We not talking about secrets. I said you can't translate Allah words. His words are limitless and are not bound by time. Rather, they function for past, present and future. Allah doesn't speak our language. He revealed the Quran in language we can simply understand. and we grasped the message. Secrets are different subject entirely. Now let me give you example why i said you can not translate Quran. The moment you translate Quran from its original arabic to another language, it loses 80% of it ingredients that other languages can grasp bcus some languages dont have exact word for the word used in the arabic Quran.

Example is surah Ikhlas, it reads, kul huwa Lahu ahad. Ahad is what i want to use. Ahad, if translated to english means (1) One literally. But from islamic view "One" mentioned in arabic Quran is not number 1 alphabet. Why?. Bcus if you say Allah is number 1 it means He is not one afterall bcus before 1 there is -1. Before minus 1, there is 0 (zero). Before zero, there is -0 and so on. So ahad if translated to english, a muslim know that it doesnt mean number 1 in numeric sense. Ahad means nothing before and nothing after Him. After hearing this, do you have one word for Ahad in english now?. I don't think so. You can tell me if you have one. So translators use "One" which is closest english translation. So when Surah Ikhlas says "kul huwa Lahu ahad, all or most translators would translate as "say, 'He is One'. They used closest english word. For us as muslims, we understand that One mentioned in english translation means Absolute and Eternal. This is why some translations have these two words (Absolute and Eternal) next to One in the ayah to indicate there is no -1 or 0 or -0 after One. That's, nothing exist before Allah and nothing will exist after Him.

Do you understand what I am saying?. I can't help you if you dont understand. So everywhere you read in the Quran where Allah says He is One, it doesn't mean numeric no 1(alphabet). See why i said Quran can not be translated?. So this is called "at-tawheed" which literally translates "oneness of God". But if a muslim happens to have this idea that Allah means 1 in numeric sense, we would just tell him to secure more knowledge.

So this is not esoteric. This is what ahad means from the perspective of tawheed.