₦airaland Forum

I simply dont want this thread stall now bcu i believe it is important subject to talk about and bury it once and for all

AlBaqir:
# Empiree, Wallahi you are dragging this thread away from its subject. Although I agreed with your submissions. However, you are not new to this Mut'ah debate on this Islam section. It is usually a one huge boring forth and back thread. The problem which I have learnt so far is that many of these so-called young sunnatic breeds are built with certain hatred of Rafidha, and that alone usually cloud their senses and judgement. This is why I totally refrain from the usual back and forth "Mut'ah is allow, No it is forbidden, No it is allow" method; hence, hitting them at the heart gangan.

# If you study my new approaches very well now it is about hitting the bull's eye. They claim they follow the salaf. So we shall continue to dig the "Dirty graves" of their salaf and let's see if they are truly followers of salafs.


# So, I don't mean to undermine your comment. It is a Dhikr for anyone of them that still has his number 6 intact. However, kindly let's go back to the theme of this thread.

* Their argument: Mut'ah is Zina. Rafidha are committing Zina. Prophet had forbidden it (Mut'ah)

* Our challenge: The Salafs (Sahabah and Tabi'ieen) continue to enjoy Mut'ah AFTER the demise of the Prophet. Were they also "People of Zina"? Were they KUFFAR for rejecting the alleged prohibition of the Prophet?

# So far, NO SENSIBLE submission has been tender to defend the dear Salaf. Therefore, the challenge is still widely open.

Wa salam

You need to let go of their past. Many more have joined this discussion lately and what they also know just like many of us is "mutah is zina", evil and all that without some scrutiny. Once they understand the basic if it, why sahaba retain it will be cleared to them. You dont need to detail repete to convince. Thats my point. but if you reject to give simple introduction again, your thread will stall

.......

I have got some piece to share

Again, albaqir, you need to convince people of its validity in order to convince them that sahab did practice mut'ah
after nabi. But if you still consider this to be derailment, i am sorry, i just have to let go this thread cus i believe this is the way to go about it.

sorextee:
Yes I grab. But me I still feel say arrangee marriage still looks like a forced marriage to me sha(tho indirectly).
Is d girl in love with the Man? Or she obeyed cos she cant go agsinst her father's wish..

It is simple. Arrange marriage is everywhere including WESTERN WORLD. Every one of them do it by style. They are just being hypocritical by focusing on islam/muslims.

Now to the topic, as i have said early, albaqir, you need to first all clarify the definition of Mut'ah and conventional or permanent marriage. Without this, this thread will go nowhere. This is why i defined it earlier. You need to take a step back a little bit. The reason for this is bcus our people have phobia for mut'ah or call it "mut'ahphobia". This is what was fed to us. You have gotta understand this first. Forget about whether they know what mutah is in the past. They dont know. Tjis young guy on internet who gives lecture on islam was asked what is MUTAH?. He said Mut'ah is zina. Is this definition of zina as given by Allah and nabi(sw)?

I have just done a little research and i have my temporary conclusion for now. I am telling you that majority of muslims, sunnis especially have zero knowledge of what mutah is. what they know is it is a thing attributed to Shi'a. For this reason, if they hear the word MUTA'H, you know their reaction.

Their is a reason Ibn Abass (ra) and other sahabat continued to practice mut'ah. They did not commit zina. But before we go into that, i noticed that sunni or some sunni shuyukh and their students of knowledge are of the opinion that mut'ah being halal at outstart is compared to permissibility alcohol before alcohol was permanently made haram. THIS IS FALSE. In the pre-islamic period, consumption of alcohol existed and was permitted till certain time until finally forbidden. But this is not the case of Mutah. Mut'ah did not exist in the pre-islamic era. The types of marriages in the period of jahiliyya were four(4).

Aisha(ra) reported those four marriages. They are:

#The People's Marriage

#The Marriage Of Istibitha

#The Marriage Of Al-Raht

#The Prostitute


So Mut'ah is not mentioned in this list. This means that Muta'h was originally implemented by Allah Himself. Allah did not order fahisha or immorality (Q7:28). And it is not all sunni that considered Mut'ah to be zina. So the brother was wrong to say mutah means zina. That's like saying Allah ordered zina (awzubillah). The least sunni ulama said is it haram but not zina bcus Allah did not order zina. Now, i honestly dont care what any brother say here. You need to broaden your understanding. This is not sunni/shia thing. It is beyond that. The condition which led to some of the sahaba to continue to practice mut'ah, the condition (same or similar) is there today. If you look closely today, marriage is late but we have too many young brothers and sisters not married for lots of reasons but zina is rampant. Islam has solution to everything. Besides conventional marriage, there is another type of marriage that sunni largely considered today be to be zina. I wanted to say this when the issue of mut'ah was brought up yrs ago btw albaqir and sino but i lost interest.

Mrolai simply needs to educate himself better on this subject rather than copy paste and digging up pictures to make the whole subject boring. It is more than that brother.

Today, sunni say mut'a is zina but majority sunni youngies commit actual zina whereas, the purpose of mut'ah in the beginning was to prevent sahaba from committing zina in the first place. Now, allow me to bring Sheikh Imran Hussein's thought in this. I was hesitant to agreeing with him but air is gradually clearing now. He insists that there are two types of marriages in Islam right now, conventional and 'malkalyamin' as he put it. He said the later's condition is here today contrary to majority opinion that is it no longer valid. However he refrained from mentioning "MUTAH" when questioned if he was referring to mutah. He simply said to them that even if the whole muslim world consider it (that's, the other form of marriage) haram, it is btw the two and Allah and clear their intention with Him. However, to initiate the second marriage, a man MUST NOT coax the girl with money. There must be mutual agreement and no timeline. And if there happens to be child btw them eventually, the child is LEGITIMATE.

This is alternative to conventional marriage which many brothers take forever to get into. But this type of non-conventional marriage unlike many other things are easily abused. I will like to post comments by sheikh Yusuf Qaradawi and some others what they said on this issue later. Let me iterate that in reference to this topic, Sahaba(rodiyaAllah anihum) who practiced mut'ah after the demise of nabi(saw) DID NOT commit zina. Wallahi they did not. So i have to retract my previous statement that "they did not know". S. Umar's independent ruling on mut'ah during his term might be due to something else that i need further research on it. If some sunni claim it is only conventional nikkah that is valid, why then did Arabs institutionalized "misyar marriage"?. Misyar marriage has element of mut'ah marriage in it. So what exactly is the blame on shi'a for?

Let me remind you again that islam has solution to modern fitna between men and women relationship which modern Muslims can not or are not unwilling to respond to effectively. We need to stop saying mutah is zina when in fact, zina, which is FORBIDDEN by islam is committed by same muslims especially young men and women in East and West. Does islam has solution to this?. ABSOLUTELY YES.

Rebuttal is welcome though. Will love to look into it bcus I am not immune to mistake.

Sorry that you considered my post off topic. I did not believe temporary derailment to clarify something constitutes derailment per se. Thats why i did not go overboard.

sorextee:
truly, they give their daughters out, as a means of settling debt. if you maybe one day stumble on the core part of the north(i mean the villages), u can ask around.
im from the north so im talking based on experience. my issue with marrying a girl at an early age cuts across all tribe, religion, etc. my emphasis is on the health implications on the girl. i served in katsina, in a remote village sef. and i saw so many things... let me summarize one experience. they tied the girl's laps(each leg), till her laps swole up, before the man could penetrate. the girl was just 11.
so as a muslim/xtian/atheist or whatever u worship, how would u feel?
lets not use religion as an umbrella, to push our little girls out to these heartless alhajis in the north.

I dont dispute @bold. It is wickedness to do that. Islam does not sanction that.

As for the rest of your post, OBVIOUSLY, that's forcing a girl against her will. That's rape case not marriage CONSENT or NOT. Any sensible human will see wickedness in this. This is not sanctioned either and this is not what islam is talking about. So i am not using religion to cover for them. what those people did was a crime that needed to be reported to appropriate authority. There is no FORCED MARRIAGE in islam. What is allowed is arranged marriage and both parties must be willing. Understand?

Indeed, Islam doesn't regulates SPECIFIC age of MARRIAGE. It is only propuberty. In ideal Islamic environment, a Muslim would wanna protect their daughter from fvckboys. In line with Islamic standard, they marry their daughter within or after her third period cycle. This is what Islam recognizes not age 18 as modern world forced down our throat.

What i disagree with is marrying off their daughter with the condition of settling debt as sorextee noted. That's disgusting and unislamic. I'm not aware of this until now.

However, non-Muslims have absolutely no right to condemn those who chose to marry their daughter off early. Unless we wanna be hypocritical, we see what's going on now with ladies at universities. We see with our own eyes the emergence of "baby father, baby mama". We all know what that means. Go to us of a, these young girls under 18 and over 18 selling themselves online. Which is better? . To let your daughter marry early or to have her sellig herself every night to different men?. They actually call this a job. "I Love What I Do" is their slogan for PAY AS YOU GO

Unltil they have solution to their madness they do not have the right to condemn what they called "underage marriage".

Of course a Muslim parent who gives their daughter in marriage should observe her maturity before doing so. All these girls online selling themselves are matured enough to sleep around but are not matured to get married? . I find that silly. Why is telling them to marry is a difficult task?

Rashduct4luv:
.

That's the point now. That some sahaba left Islam after the demise of nabi (saw). The percentage of them is perhaps, what is debatable. So according to ibn Tayimiyah(ra), it means sunnis also believed some sahaba became kafir. However, when we say "SAHABA", they are those who saw, met and accepted nabi (saw). Those who rejected him during or after his lifetime are not even though they were sahaba in nabi's life.

It is true that those who renounced Islam might narrated ahadith too. In Sunni theology, we are simply not taught who those who apostatized sahaba were and their percentage. The basic principle in sunism is that sahaba were righteous and must be respected regardless of their shortcomings. That's fair enough.

I personally do not subscribed to cursing any sahaba even though we know their shortcomings. Me and albaqir have debated this on another platform elsewhere. It is not their fault to do that. They do have evidences in the kitab and sunnah but I argued that cursing those Allah and His messanger cursed is only the right of Allah and His messenger not them. Sahaba are not all in the same level.

So when Allah praises the early generation in the ayah you quoted, it means most likely specific people amongst the sahaba like the "Four Rightly Guided Kulafah" for instance and those who were closed to them and those amongst them. It can not be all of them since Quran and sunnah also critisized some sahaba.

So it depends on which Sahaba the shia considered kufar, Munafiqun and Muslims. You can't say they go against Quran if they curse some sahaba based on evidence they gathered.

Rashduct4luv:
The reports that some of the Sahaabah (and by extension to the later Salafs) regarded it as being permissible, especially Ibn ‘Abbaas.

The refutation here is the fact that the Raafidis are following their own whims and desires, because they regard the companions of the Prophet (may Allaah be pleased with them) as kaafirs, then you see them quoting their actions as permissible in this instance and in others.

With regard to those who said that it is permissible, they are among those who did not hear that it had been forbidden. The Sahaabah (may Allaah be pleased with them) – including ‘Ali ibn Abi Taalib and ‘Abd-Allaah ibn al-Zubayr – refuted Ibn ‘Abbaas’s view that mut’ah was permitted.

It was narrated from ‘Ali that he heard Ibn ‘Abbaas permitting mut’ah marriage, and he said, “Wait a minute, O Ibn ‘Abbaas, for the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) forbade it on the day of Khaybar and (he also forbade) the meat of tame donkeys.”

Narrated by Muslim, 1407.

I think this is enough!

JazaKaAllahu....Good. I thought you all not gonna respond academically. Was going to give you guys 3 days to respond before I challenge op. In addition to the fact that some sahaba did not hear muta'h is now made haram, the reason for that was bcus those days there was no telecommunications to reach them unlike today.

Those Sahaba were on assignments like they went to give dawah in other regions or on the battlefield etc. So they did not know. This is what I was expecting from you brothers rather than unnecessary unrelated rants.

It is up to albaqir to refute this rebuttal if he can. As for accusing Raafidis that they considered sahaba to be kufar, this is not shia thing alone. It is historically proven that after the demise of nabi (SAW), strange things happened especially during the regime of Sayyidina Abu Bakr(ra). Some sahaba apostatized. This was common knowledge.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1aTKwkviQVQ

shahydbinaliyu MrOlai Aminu212 Rashduct4luv Kaytixy

I think these brothers are missing the point. I am not here to support or oppose op. But based on evidences he presented, that mut'ah was practiced after nabi(SAW), what is or are your counterclaims that sahaba did not practice mut'ah after the demise of nabi(AS)?

None of you presented evidence to counter him. Rashduct was close but his statement is not convincing enough. Matter of fact his statement implicates sahaba further. If we are to go by these brothers' logic, nabi(SAW) was reported to have said we should follow his sunnah and sunnah of his sahaba. If they practiced mut'ah AFTER nabi(SAW) is indicative of its permissibility.


I dont think op has problems with whether mut'ah was halal before it was banned. There are evidences that it was once permissible but is now haram (as myself believe). But what of sahaba who practiced it after nabi?. Do you guys have evidence to suggest otherwise please?.

This is real discussion. You dont need to bring Ayatollah, this and that shia in this. Thats irrelevant. Try to properly refute op rather than diverging. Saheed, you dont need to give your own statement to exonerate them. You need to bring evidence forward. If i was ardent anti-shi'a, i would have done my best to refute him. But since I am not, that's why i showed no interest. So kindly refute op with evidence that those sahaba and tabee'in did not practice mut'ah after nabi made it haram?. This is what op is saying.


But if you can not refute him, then you need to drop your anti-shia rhetorics.

shadrach77:
You are slightly silly. Did the voice in the song sound like that of a woman ?

easy nau. he was referring to this one


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojXA0i7gyB8

make i run away

If these boys are still alive as old men, I wonder how they would feel seeing this

The window is hilarious

JideAmuGiaka:
In Nigeria our own former presidents will only gather to plan how they'll continue looting the treasury. Useless and wicked people.

You vex man
But I am sure that GHWB didn't pay for that wheelchair with his money

That's looting too

....

I am not used to listening to this Sheikh but his lecture here from 25 minutes got my B+

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KizavRzwhI

Rilwayne001:
Mó gbîn inan
Take note that it's different from 'mo gbinan'

indeed literal translation is @bold
Interpretation is the picture

Rilwayne001

AlBaqir:
# That's bullshit to his fanatic self if at all he knows.

I'm seeing how moniker first time. He must have known you. He should rather agree with your message than attacking the messanger. Sheik bin baz would have agreed with what u said bcus he said the same thing. Those groups are not sects. They fall under second ayah you quoted. Abdelkabir would agree with u too if he doesn't allow SHIISM to cloud his judgment.

shahydbinaliyu:
This is exactly the same thing that ASRAU BILAL, ISA AKINDELE QUOTE TO DEFEND THEIR KUFRU (HIZBIYUN, FIROQ, SECT, ISLAMIC GROUP, EGBE) . . . . .wAlai if you die bel0nging to an islamic affiliated sect, walai you wil stay forever in hell

I hope you realized that Sheikh Bin Baz(ra) also made the same submission as op did?.

budosky:
يا هذا، هل عرفت انّ التكفير من وقع فى الكفر، وتبديع من وقع فى البدع، والتفسيق من وقع فى الفسقِ بعد شروطهم واردة فى فى الإسلام؟

You just looking to derail this thread by any means necessary?

At the end of the day, both are guilty of the same accusations

Agreed

AlBaqir:
# Astaghfirullah. Perhaps you need to go back to the said comment and re-read. For a fact, part of Shia belief is that Nabi went to miraj physically (and of course spiritually). How and with what? This is where things are not clear (for me), and perhaps in near future we can understand it rationally (rather than just spiritually).

# Did all Sunni really belief in Physical ascension of Nabi? Not all Sunni did. In fact there is an Hadith (though I don't know its grading) where Aishah claimed that Nabi slept on her lap throughout the night of Miraj. Perhaps this is where some extracted the idea of spiritual ascension from rather physical. However, the Hadith whether sahih or daif by grading is mawdoo because Nabi had never got married to Aishah when he went to Miraj.

Dead. This kills the fabricated theory.

Unfortunately, I won't be chasing the thread. Good thing you belief in his physical ascensionism

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TX6uAsRQN9Q

^^^^ this video by Shaykh Al-Yaqoubi is a challenge to Albaqir. I remembered you once said or attempted to interpret isra and miraj to mean nabi(saw) travelled spiritually while asleep. I guess you tried to please tingtingz at that time who shunned a long held belief of isra and miraj. Sunni largely believe that nabi(saw) went physically. I never for once doubted that.

Just bcus our human reasoning capacity is limited does not make ancient miraculous things false. The same way modern muslims question 20th century awliya's karamat.

In honor of The Last Messenger(SAW). Isra & Miraj


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLwsd-4DiTk

Explaining Solati Fatih


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDJYlwcDz3U

Nakali Benefits Of Surah Yasin

* Recite surah Yasin regularly in the morning and your daily needs will be fulfilled. (Darmi, Tabrani)


* If extra-ordinarily burdened with worries, write surah Yasin on a pot with saffron, mix with water and drink it. Allah will relieve you of all worries(in sha Allah


* Recite surah Yasin in Fajr and you will be happy all day


* Drink water mixed with word of Yasin written 5 times, it will sharpen your memory

FriendNG:
Hmm. Check this thread from 2009 https://www.nairaland.com/229011/whats-h-factor

Lol...pronunciation barriers really messed up the thread.

Well, there is no big deal. It is just accent. Same applies to White folks. They can not pronounce two consonants together but they usually make lots of efforts to do so especially during graduation, he/she must be practicing to pronounce them ahead when callings names of graduates. I think many yorubas too have hard time pronouncing 'P' in 'SHO P'. They say it like SHO B . Interestingly however, if they say SHOPPING in a sentence, they pronounce 'P' instead of "SHO BB ING"

A simple Yoruba movie will reveal this. "I am going to shob", especially if they talk fast.