₦airaland Forum

AlBaqir:
# The fact that he (and me anyway) do not belief in a kind of flying horse named al-buraq or whatever which is said to have carried Nabi to heavens doesn't mean we are kafir ("reject" in your word). Quran or super authentic ahadith never talked about it. So, it remains a tale by moonlight. The basics however is that Nabi went to the "heavens". How and with what? Quran silent on this. We can only imagine based on our modern knowledge of Jets, and Yoruba's Kanako, ofe (telepathy, if I get the meaning right) etc that perhaps there was a kind of means of transportation that took Nabi there.

I understand but i never said this. I said rejecting the tale has no weight on his salavation.

EgunMogaji:
No to screeding..

Why not?

At some point in the future I intend to do wood paneling so it'll be a waste.

Pardon me. What do you mean by this?. You mind posting sample of this pls?

AlBaqir:
Islam is perfect bro. Quran especially. Its high time people should understand that its a book of ethical guidelines not science/technological book. It open the door wide open for man to explore heavens and the earth. And that is science and technology but under the guidelines of Quran esp when it comes to belief and morality.

# "Islam" will always have clashes with science via its followers different interpretation of Quran/hadith as against or support of science.

# To me, there is beauty in diversity. The moment a school or ideology try to force an interpretation and close the door of ijtihad, then we have great problem and that is not Islam but Muslim, the imperfect.

Agreed

Child Marriage in the USA

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/14/opinion/americas-child-marriage-problem.html?_r=0



Forced Marriage

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XI55-GL3MI4



Child Brides in the US: Why we need feminism

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toRqo8BILRg


Children Get Married In The U.S., Too: #15Girls
http://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2015/10/28/452540839/children-get-married-in-the-u-s-too-15girls


Swallow that ^

tintingz:
There are things harbs can't cure, HIV, Ebola, Cancer, disabilities etc. This are strong medical problems.

Some of the vaccines to remedy conditions you mentioned above have natural herbs in them. I have witnessed herbs for cure of stoke.

tintingz:
you are yet to show us your prove of flying horse(unicorn, Pegasus) Mohammed (SA) rode to heaven,

So you dont believe this narration too?. Be careful bro. I dont blame you though. NEVER reject Islamic Spirituality

his bones(fossil).

Common now, long passed. Pharaoh's that was found was by Allah's Decree. Besides, Adam was a prophet. Allah would preserve his remains from useless scientists just as he preserves other prophets Remember back in the days we were told oyinbo people went to space to look for God?. They found nothing. Therefore, according to them, He doesn't exist. The only possible answer to that is when their oxygen runs out, God will manifest Himself


On a serious note, i respect your view but I just have to turn down some of them. Reason I should respect it is because Qur'an, as explained by a Nigerian scholar in the UK can be interpreted in many ways depending on how gifted you are. The Sheik said Qur'an can be explained by:

Quran itself

Hadith

History

Science

Philosophy

Intellect

Spirituality

Sahaba Etc.

And he said the best option is Qur'an explaining Quran which means if you reject Nabi's (SAW) ascension by Horse to Heavens, it has no effect on your salvation. But remember, history is very important. So i think we are witnessing emergence of Muslim scientists gradually to explain some of the verses of Quran in their own way. I believe without doubt that knowledge moves forward. There will continue to be discoveries.

It is all in the Quran already but Allah will make them known with TIME.


For instance, Nabi Adam (AS) could NEVER imagine wearing cloth. If he was here today, he would probably run away from us. We look strange to him. Same is true of Sahaba of Nabi Muhammad (SAW), they could not imagine us using computer and networking. Yet, Quran speaks of this to those who understand. I am yet to agree with you until Allah gives me knowledge to that effect. I am never gonna reject it 100% now. I can only reject scientific "facts" that clearly go against Quran. The issue of pre-Adamic humans you brought up, there is no Quranic backup for or against. Rather Allah said to Angels, "I know What You Know Not" That's open challenge. It brings about curiosity. If you discover something and you're convinced, always sign it off with 'wallahu ta'ala alam'.


Just my opinion

This Is A Comment From Video Above By A Guy Named Muslim Knight 3 years Ago.


"Subhan'Allah. Thank you brother for sharing what the real view and stance of Imam ibn Taymiyyah was. The slanderous views of the neo-salafi/wahabi movements have been poisoning our youths with lie's and Bidaah"

shawl:
Following the thread closely.

Never new Ibn Taymiyya wore the cloak of Abdul Qadir Jeilani, ra, and felt honored by it.


As for Al Hallaj Mansur, I think most people rather just keep quiet than condemn him. There were many documented powerful anecdotes around him to be swept under just like that. But Allah knows best.

If christians had Al Hallaj, I wondered what they would have made him into?

Yup. I didnt know before too actually until i heard last Ramadan and read article as well. Either way, he is not authority in islam. We respect him for who he was and his opinion. My post was only for educational purposes against nonsense they write by attacking others and causing sectarianism.

Now that i brought evidence for them, they dare not speak. The evidences are glaring and they can hide behind keyboard and watch. They are innovators and start calling them by that from now on. They feel they have monopoly to call people innovators. So now, their mentor, Ibn Taymiyah (ra) they praised highly call them innovators.

And when Ibn Taymiyah speaks negatively of sufis, he is simply speaking of charlatans not sufism itself. But these ones we have here have some kind of phobic syndrome. You notice that they usually like attacking fellow muslims but cool off when it comes to interfaith dialogue. So they can come here now and say my posts are "lousy daleel". Their so called "gathering of knowledge" is nothing but criticism of muslims. What knowledge do we actually gather from that?. So pathetic.

From now on, start calling them innovators and implore others to do the same. Give them their own dose.

Ubenedictus:
I guess that is for God to decide on the last day. it seems d decision has nothing to do with humans. it isnt telling xtian to go and find and kill the unbeliever.

Okay, showing your true face isn't?. Is the verse of quoted he quoted says to go and find disbeliever and kill them?. Be honest for a second.

Secondly, the verses I quoted they exist in your Bible or not?. That's the point

Ubenedictus:
Does that passage talk of hell

who are these unbelievers condemned to Hell?

Ubenedictus:
So luke 19 also insults jews and muslims?

Who are the DISBELIEVERS that the Bible condemned to Hell?. How do you define "insult?

"I wonder why I've never heard this from those who usually trumpet Ibn Taymiyya?"

Obviously, no one disputes that as with most practices, there are those who are the genuine article, those who just do something as a job but whose heart isn't in their work and those who are only concerned with appearances. Imam Ibn Taymiyya was right on the mark here. However, according to his own words, he clearly didn't have anything against people who were genuinely and sincerely following the Sufi path.

When Imam Ibn Taymiyya wrote so much about tasawuf (Sufism) and claimed to be a Qadiri himself with only two people between him and the great Sheikh Abdul Qadir al-Jilani, may Allah bless him, why is this Imam so widely cited by those who are otherwise so opposed to Sufism? How can they authentically reference this scholar of Sufism as their evidence against it? Logically it doesn't make any sense


^^^

That's why I say to them, "afalataqilun?"

Shaykh Ibn Taymiyyah says:

“And the Sufi is in reality a kind of Siddiq [Truthful One], that Siddiq who specialized in Zuhd [Asceticism] and ‘Ibadah [Worship].”


Funny enough, a Saudi Sheikh has this to say.....help yourself and stop hating and fear Allah before saying trash


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Od2rwGwwj3E


Imam Ibn Taymiyya then went on to say:

Some people criticized the Sufis and said that they were innovators and out of the Sunna... but the truth is that they are exercising ijtihad in view of obeying Allah just as others who are obedient to Allah have also done. So from them you will find the Foremost in Nearness (al-sabiq al-muqarrab) by virtue of his striving, while some of them are from the People of the Right Hand... and among those claiming affiliation with them, are those who are unjust to themselves, rebelling against their Lord. These are the sects of innovators and free-thinkers (zindiq) who claim affiliation to the Sufis but in the opinion of the genuine Sufis, they do not belong, for example, al-Hallaj. Tasawwuf has branched out and diversified and the Sufis have become known as three types:

1. Sufiyyat al haqa'iq: the Sufis of Realities, and these are the ones we mentioned above;
2. Sufiyyat al arzaq: the funded Sufis who live on the religious endowments of Sufi guest-houses and schools; it is not necessary for them to be among the people of true realities, as this is a very rare thing
3. Sufiyyat al rasm: the Sufis by appearance only, who are interested in bearing the name and the dress etc.


Indeed, these three categories, i heard from Sheik Daud Alfa Nla's lecture titled "Sufism"

Abeg, tell these brothers to shut up and mind their business if they don't understand anything. Interesting... "I wonder why I've never heard this from those who usually trumpet Ibn Taymiyya?"

plappville:
Nigeria when Islam Don almost put for pocket ? Where are those girls kidnapped by Allah army? That can't happen in America. But it happened in Nigeria. I pity my Country for accepting Islam. I hope one day, someone will stop Islam in Nigeria. Nothing is impossible !

This can only happen in your unfulfilled dream

Furthermore, there is another unique manuscript, also found in the Princeton Library, of the work of Ibn Taymiyya himself, in a book named, Targhib al-Mutahabbin fi labs Khirqat al-Mutammayyazan by Jamal ad-Dan al-Talyani. Here are Ibn Taymiyya’s own words, as quoted from a work of his, al-Mas’ala at-Tabraziyya: ”I wore the blessed Sufi cloak of Shaikh Abdul Qadir Jilani, there being between him and me two Sufi shaikhs.”

In another manuscript he said, “I have worn the Sufi cloak of a number of Sufi shaikhs, belonging to various tariqats, among them Abdul Qadir al-Jilani, whose tariqat is the greatest of the well-known ones, may Allah have mercy on him.”

After him, the lineage continues on to his student, Ibn Qayyim al-Jawziyya, and his student Ibn Rajab.

The references for what we have mentioned are: “al-Hadi” manuscript in Princeton Library, Yahuda Collection, fol. 154a, 169b, 171b-172a; “at-Talyani,” manuscript, Chester Beatty, 3296 ( in Dublin, fol. 67a.


Sounds like these people have hijacked Sheikh ul Islam Ibn Taymiyah (ra) and portrayed him as extreme fringe. I know they lie anyways. Interestingly, Sheik Jilani and Ibn Taymiyyah are of Ambali school. It very crazy to even say Sufi hate knowledge and they dont read Quran. One doesn't need Phd to figure out it is lie cooked up by some nutjobs.


ikupakuti

Ibn Taymiyya’s Qadiri Lineage as a Sufi Shaikh


At present we are in a position to go much further than saying that Ibn Taymiyya simply praised Sufism. We can say with definitiveness that he was an aspirant in the Sufi Way who belonged to more than one tariqat, primarily to the Qadiri Tariqat, of Shaikh Abdul Qadir al-Jilani.

In a unique manuscript of the Hanbali Yusuf ibn cAbd al-Hadi (d. 909 H./1503 CE), entitled Bad’ al-culqa bi labs al-khirqa, uncovered in the Princeton University Library, Ibn Taymiyya is listed in a Sufi spiritual genealogy with other well-known Hanbali scholars. The links in this genealogy are, in descending order from cAbdul Qadir Jilani:



Shaikh cAbdul Qadir Jilani (d. 561 H./1165 CE)

Abu cUmar b. Qudama (d. 607 H./1210 CE)

Muwaffaq ad-Din b. Qudama (d. 620 H./1223 CE)

Ibn cAli b. Qudama (d. 682 H./1283 CE)

Ibn Taymiyya (d. 728 H./1328 CE)

Ibn Qayyim al-Jawziyya (d. 751 H./1350 CE)

Ibn Rajab (d. 795 H./1393 CE)



I heard this before from Nigerian Sheik actually. Now this confirms it. Also heard from Trinidad Sheik Imran Hussein. As for statement attributed to Imam Gazali in the op is nothing but falsehood only to be found in the salafi publication and some orientalist. Rubbish

Imam Ibn Taymiyya About the Unveiling of Appearances

He said (volume 11, page 313): “Allah Almighty will unveil to his saints states that have never been unveiled before and He will give them support without measure. If that saint begins to speak from the things of the unseen, past or present or future, it is considered from the viewpoint of Bab al-cilm al-khariq, miraculous knowledge. Anything that a saint does which is from the unseen, for people or for listeners, of healing or teaching knowledge, it is accepted and we must thank Allah for it.”



Above ^ is what i was telling abdelkabir. He thinks am crazy. Above is what Sheik Adam (ra) was referring to in his book. I owe no one any explanation




Imam Ibn Taymiyya Mentions some Great Shaikhs of Sufism


In the volume entitled Ilm as-Suluk, (“The Science of Travelling the Way to God”), which consists of the entire 775 pages of volume 10 of Majmah al-Fatawa, he says (p. 516): “The great Sufi shaikhs are well known and accepted, such as: Bayazid al-Bistami, Shaikh Abdul Qadir Jilani, Junaid ibn Muhammad, Hasan al-Basri, al Fudayl ibn al-Ayyad, Ibrahim bin al-Adham, Abi Sulayman ad-Daarani, Ma’ruf al-Karkhi, Siri as-Saqati, Shaikh Hammad, Shaikh Abul Bayan.

“Those great Sufis were the leaders of humanity, and they were calling to what is right and forbidding what is wrong.”


But brothers here dont believe in Awliya nor do they believe in their karamat (miracles). When such people disbelieve in these things, Allah blinds their heart. That's why they dont understand what I am saying. I owe no one explanation

Imam Ibn Taymiyya About Miracles of Saints

“It is said that after the Seal of Prophets (s), revelation does not descend upon anyone else. Why not? In fact it does, but then it is not called ‘revelation.’ It is what the Prophet (s) referred to when he said, ‘The believer sees with the Light of God.’ When the believer looks with God’s Light, he sees all things: the first and the last, the present and the absent.[b][/b] For how can anything be hidden from God’s Light? And if something is hidden, then that is not the Light of God. Therefore the meaning of revelation exists, even if it is not called revelation.”

From Rama’s Fihi ma fihi.


Ibn Taymiyya continues in the same book, Majmu’a Fatawi Ibn Taymiyya: “What is considered as a miracle for a saint is that sometimes the saint might hear something that others do not hear or see something that others do not see, not while asleep, but in a wakened state of vision. He can know things that others cannot know, through revelation or inspiration.”


^

The above was denied by a brother who doesnt seem to undertsand



In another book, Mukhtasar al-Fatawa al-Masriyya, published by al-Madani Publishing House, 1980, page 603, he writes: “The miracles of saints are absolutely true and correct, and acknowledged by all Muslim scholars. The Qur’an has pointed to it in different places, and the Hadith of the Prophet (s) have mentioned it, and whoever denies the miraculous power of saints are innovators or following innovators.”


Gbam! lobatan


You talk trash about Awliya in Nigeria and elsewhere, calling them "mad people". Ibn Taymiyyah(ra) said people like you are innovators


He continues quoting the Prophet’s saying about the saints: “You are the witnesses of Allah on earth.”


So how come Imam Ibn Taymiyya would condemn soofiya in the nonsense you write in your op?. That is called CONTRADICTION

Imam Ibn Taymiyya About Saints and Sainthood (waliy)

Imam Ibn Taymiyya mentions in the volume already cited, page 190: “A servant of Allah, Almighty and Exalted, cannot be considered a saint unless he is a true believer. Allah mentions in Qur’an, Surat Yunus, 62-63: “Now surely, on the friends of Allah there is no fear, nor shall they grieve; those who believe and guard against evil.”

He then quotes the famous hadith from Bukhari: “My servant draws not near to Me with anything more loved by Me than the religious duties I have enjoined upon him, and My servant continues to draw near to Me with supererogatory works so that I shall love him. When I love him I am his hearing with which he hears, his seeing with which he sees, his hand with which he strikes and his foot with which he walks. Were he to ask [something] of Me, I would surely give it to him, and were he to ask Me for refuge, I would surely grant him it. I do not hesitate about anything as much as I hesitate about [seizing] the soul of My faithful servant: he hates death and I hate hurting him.”

He explains the phrase, “Whoever comes against one of My saints is challenging Me to fight” thus: “It means that Allah is expressing: ‘I will seek revenge against anyone who comes against My saints like an aggressive lion.’” (p. 314)




I really dislike using the word "saint". That's christian connotation just like some muslims today use "cleric" to describe Islamic scholar. Cleric is Western and christian jargon. What is used in the Quran is waliy or awliya etc

tintingz:
Oga, it is a fact from scientific discoveries (fossil) that first humans were dark-skin from Africa, it is not about racism thing.

I know it is not. I don't have problem with it. Just like to avoid the subject. Few years was watching documentary on Animal Planets with a white dude. It was about monkeys and Apes. I played dumb and asked him, why do they look like this? . He said "that's the beginning of man" indicating he understands Adam was black

And the rib story thing are all fairytale, middle eastern myth, Jewish folklore, so in all Adam's body na the lower rib Allah find use create Eve? That's really a degrading to the female folks and funniest thing is religious women also believe in this that they came from men ribs.

well opinions vary in this.

The rate of abiku(death of babies) was very high during our fathers and mothers era, there is nothing like blood test then, they believe it is spiritual thing since they have no treatment for it, now you hardly hear such thing as abiku, it has been said to be sickle cell because we now have modern medical treatment And not only sickle cell there are other defects, diseases that kill babies early.

The girl you talked about is still alive because of the modern medical treatments we have today which never existed during our ancestors.

Maybe maybe not. But I never believed in Abiku myth. I see it more as stage play.

Lol, natural herbal for birth defects?, birth defects comes with disabilities and many children with disabilities don't live long which herbal wan cure disability ehn?

never underestimate power of herbs

Ibn Kathie copied from Jewish books(myth), the origin of the sister story of Cain and Abel is from Jewish books there is no inspiration from Allah in it. The Judeo-christians also buy the fake story.

my intention here was to bring to attention of the brothers that love singing Quran and sunnah to answer where ibn kathir got it from since it's not documented in any of the Islamic primary sources. But they believe it just as much as i do

Are you saying the Quran is not complete? Quran said Cain killed Abel because of the sacrifice, why do some scholars have to smuggle in some fairytale story to fill some gap?

well, just like Quran speaks of Sahaba and wives of the prophet (saw) without mentioning them by name or without relating all their stories. Does that mean it is incomplete? . Your judgement is wrong here.

true2god:
Mr Islamic 'scholar', can you please explain quran 98:6 to us infidels?

Who are the disbelievers who are destined for Hell in these Bible verses? .

Don't you think that you shouldn't even ask me any question when you have worst than that in your Book?.

I know you will. I have nothing to explain. Yours are glaring in the attachment. So your bible preaches hate against disbelievers.

AlBaqir:
# Because it is from Ibn Kathir? What kind of evidence is that? Only the Wahabism/Salafi can take that as final prove. Even these people reject Ibn Kathir's interpretation and suggestions sometimes if it doesn't go inline with their belief system e.g issue of Tawassul. We have discussed this too. Today, you have edited Ibn Kathir Tafsir (and Sahih Bukhari and Muslim (English/Arabic translations) where many things have been deliberately expunged.

That's what I'm saying, that we, especially them believed it AS IS because it was narated by ibn khatir (ra). I did not know this before neither heard of it until 2yrs ago here on nl by a Christian and I decided to research it.

Overall, the issue is quite irrelevant and has no basis for salvation of ours except for educational purposes.

AlBaqir:
# What is the Imam's prove that Adam was black when Ibn Hajar for example suggested him to be white and of 1080 inches tall?

Actually I woundnt expect imam to busy with references at the mimbar. It was only 30 mins sermon on jumah. Would have been different if it was a class

Ubenedictus:
Empiree does d koran say what he claims?

it's irrelevant trying to correct the dude. I know him very well.

The same way he quoted the quran, I can as well quote Luke 19 vs 27. But guess what, he's going to tell us it's parable. In another word, he would try to "explain" the bible verse and wants us to listen and accept his explanations but he would not accept Muslim explanations of the Quranic verse. You see the double standard?

AlBaqir:
# What is the scientific research and evidence of that Imam to conclude that way? If he has none, then his opinion is useless. That, Eve was created from Adam's rib, is an opinion from other opinion in various Mufassir's interpretation of sura Nisa: 1. I have brought the two side of the argument before. So, the man probably based his theory on the "hadith" that says so.

I believe we discussed this before in a different thread. Matter with rib issue is tafsir and tawil. So i won't blame the Imam for his opinion bcus Quran itself brings about very close meaning "zahjaha" to mean "brought forth from him", "created from him", "create like his nature" etc according different translations

AlBaqir:
Wallahi its almost the same mythology. However, Shi'i Mufassir opened the door of ijtihad wide open for modern interpretation with bold note that that might not be final interpretation.

# Tafsir al-Mizan of Allamah Tabatabai brought out nearly all the myths and submissions about the creation of Adam/eve, how procreation occur by incest etc and he did his best dismantle all these myths. He access various ahadith from both schools on this subject, scrutinize them, and obviously he talks about scientific researches on the subject (till the time he wrote his Tafsir) and at the end he stopped where Quran stops with his view on the verse.

# Tafsir Allamah Jawadi Amuli and that of Jafar Subhani are more recent compare to that of Tabatabai, they also follow similar approach with "updates in science", scrutiny and their deductions. However, none of them close the door in their interpretation.

May Allah provide me with plenty of time (am really engaged now). I will try and post some of their submissions but obviously none of them condemn evolution.

Humm, interesting. I sensed there is not much difference in the theories.

AlBaqir:
# Sunnis argue that Adam landed in India, and lived and died there, making a pilgrimage to Makkah at a point. They also claim that he was 1000 inches tall, and that modern humans later evolved from his giant children. According to authentic Sunni hadiths, Adam landed on the earth just 8000 years ago. And according to Sirah Ibn Hisham, there were 48 generations between Prophet Adam and Prophet Muhammad.

From a genetic perspective, this Sunni myth is ridiculous on several fronts. First, 48 generations is too short for evolution (which happens through germline mutations). In the case of humans, about 10,000 generations of sustained reproductive isolation of two human populations are needed for evolution to have any chance. So, it is impossible that Adam was 1000 inches tall just less than 100 generations ago. If he was 1000 inches tall, we would all be genetically similar to him, and we would all be 1000 inches tall today.

Also, there are genes in the human genome that are 60 million years old. This also refute the Sunni mythologies.

# Shi'ites too have their mythologies. Read Hayatul Qulub (English translation) of al-Majlisi. You will learn so much.

Minus your opinion or your scientific knowledge, what EXACTLY is Shia documented facts on this issue of Adam being the first human and or if they believe in pre-Adamic as well?. I want to believe that there is not much difference btw "SuShi" narrations. You however may have dumped some of the Shia mythologies lately. So can you tell what's recorded by Shia theologians about this?. Thank you

tintingz:
This is not about western or racism, the first early humans are said to be dark-skin from Africa, you can google it.

As I said before, I have no problems with Nabi Adam(as) being black man. There are elements of proofs from kitab and sunnah to this effect. But I generally hate discussing racial issue. If in America you said Adam was black man, African American might feel some sense of superiority. That's why I ignore the subject all the time. This reminds of of former NYC Imam of blessed memory. He was a Sheik from Syria who passed away in 2013 after Ramadan. He said on Minbar that Adam was a black man and his wife Hawwa was white bcus she was created from his rib and rib is white cell. And from them other color evolved like Chinese yellow, brown skinned and red skinned people etc.

Anyways what you quoted was just the wicked act the British colonials used to justify keeping blacks as slaves, they believe blacks were monkeys, they also use bible scriptures that talk about keeping slaves

Yup.

Was there any medical treatment to treat babies born out of incest in ancient days? Remember abiku was also very much in those days which science call sickle cell.

https://cdn.psychologytoday.com/sites/default/files/styles/article-inline-half/public/blogs/44242/2012/09/106847-104502.png

^^^ Incestuous Children with birth defect.

Is there any correlation btw Abiku and Sickle cell?. I thought Abiku according to Yoruba folklore means a child born with protracted illness with element of spiritual problems who deliberately inflicts pains on his/her parents time and again?. And sickle cell on the other hand is purely medical condition inherited due to hemoglobin blood cell. The baby may die at young age. There was adopted girl in my family. She is sickle cell patient. Used to complain of pains here and there. She is now 24, married with 3 kids. Still hail and sound. We thought she would die long ago.

To your question, let's assume Allah ordered Cain and Abel to marry their sisters according Ibn Kathir (ra), the implication is that, by default, there would not have been any potential illness from their offspring. Let's assume their was illness, every Age has antidote with which they would use to counter harmful effects of illness. And I am sure they used natural herbs if there was any birth defect at all.

I only read narration by ibn kathir on cain wife, i didnt see any authentic hadith.

Ibn kathir said Cain killed Abel over a woman which is thier sister because she's Abel twin sister and she's prettier that his own twin sister. All of it doesn't make any sense as the Quran said the killing of his brother was about the sacrifice.

My comment here is going to be off so pardon me. You do have the right to reject Ibn Kathir's narrative. I can understand. The first RED FLAG. is there is no "qola rosul" throughout the narration even the one with chain of narration to Ibn Abbas (ra). I believe in Ibn Kathir's narration about Cain and Abel marriage to their sisters. This is why I reject pre-Adamic humans. Far as I am concerned, there is correlation btw cain and Abel marrying their sister and the sacrifice mentioned in the Quran. After the order came to marry their sisters from another pregnancy, is it said that one of the girls is pretty while the other is ugly. Cain wanted pretty one (who no want pretty gal ). But by Divine Order, he is to marry the ugly one. So argument ensued and their father, Adam (as) instruct them to make sacrifice to Allah and whoever sacrifice is accepted would marry pretty girl. So Cain's sacrifice was denied and this was the reason for killing his brother, Abel. This part is mentioned in the Quran while the marriage part is not. So i believe there is possibility that the narration is true. The only problem with it is that is it lacking authority of Nabi (saw).


Note, dont mind "pretty girl, ugly girl" thing. That mind be opinion of some later scholars to spice thing up



My point is, Muslims generally accepted the narration because it is Ibn Kathir speaking and has chain to Ibn Abbas, one of the brilliant sahaba. And no scholars of their time challenged him. That is their only backing. But going by these modern muslims screaming " only quran and sunnah", they should NEVER ever believe or accept the narration if we are to use their methodology but unfortunately they believe it. Question, where and how did Ibn Kathir come about this story?. I believe it is by Allah's inspiration. I heard the same story narrated by a Nigerian Sufi Sheik and he didnt even mention Ibn Kathir in his speech. My point is, these people DO NOT believe in "firasa" or that Allah could reveal certain knowledge of unseen to His servants He wills. They have accused the Sufis of claiming to knowing the "unseen". Then ask them why they believe Cain and Abel's story by Ibn Kathir without backings from Quran and Sunnah?. Why dont they challenge the story?. I believe 100% in the story bcus I know posility of Allah inspiring any of His beloved servants. They dont believe this and if a muslim claims certain knowledge that they are not familiar with they label such as mushrik or alhu bidat etc. So this type of knowledge received by Ibn Kathir(ra) is what is known among Sufis as knowledge internally received. But this type of knowledge or stories are NOT binding on anyone. A muslim may politely reject it without putting on boxing gloves.

So i dont blame you for rejecting the story bcus it has no proof beyond Ibn Kathir and Ibn Abbas (may Allah be pleased with them). Tell them brothers to stop challenging what they know not bcus they are causing trouble over this. And if you do provide them evidence which i did, they rubbish it as "daif" bcus it is not coming from their quarters. Ask them to provide evidence from kitab and Sunnah for Cain and Abel marrying their sisters minus opinion of any sheik or sahaba. I will like to see evidence so that I can adjust my understanding. I hope you get my point?. Ask them if Ibn Kathir is alhu bida bcus he received this knowledge from unknown quarters?.

Thank you

While science has shown that there are pre-mordern humans like Homo erectus, Homo heidelbergensis etc.

I would not deny this 100%. I believe that Quran leaves the door open for research due to verse I cited earlier. I just can not as yet take "evidence" presented by you as fact bcus the source(s) are questionable. For now, I do not believe pre adamic humans. I stick to the narration.


WaAllahu ta'la alam

RABIUSHILE04:
Abiiioo, that should have been how rasulullaah and the sahabas should have taken also from Musaylam Al Khazab. Oni irori buruku GBA ni Iwo agbalagba yi.

Muslims that are on the guidance of rasulullaah, his blessed sahabas, tabee'en, tabee'en tabee'en and those on this path only take from tayyib, not from ahlul bidia.

Im not derailing this thread, just forbidding evil. Assalam alaykum.

Afalataqilun.

Where is ignore button

AlBaqir:
Solat Dua?! Oga o.

you don't believe it?

AlBaqir:


# You can never beat an experienced thug. Jabata is well experienced in thuggerism. Dueling with him is a waste of time and no matter how soft you are in tongue and adab, he will push you to the wall till you behave just like him.

The man tried to be nice but Jabata really pushed him and he lost his cool. He has zero adhab. He should have respect himself.

Jabata Interviewed

This is serious faah


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebpP3JtRYqE

Kaysalas:
Let me read both books and form my own opinions about them. I will be expecting the links soonest. Thanks bro. Gd nyt n a nice week ahead

Sir, I searched for it on my PC. The link doesn't work anymore. Says it is invalid. That means the book is removed from it. I am sorry.