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 Jokes Etc › Re: My Hilarious Picture Album by Empiree: 3:01am On Apr 07, 2016 |
Lmao that little kid with his vest around his ankles lol  4 Likes 1 Share
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| Islam › Re: Worship Vs Greetings (can We Bow Or Prostrate For Others Than Allah?) by Empiree: 11:47pm On Apr 06, 2016 |
AlBaqir: 1 Like |
| Islam › Re: Worship Vs Greetings (can We Bow Or Prostrate For Others Than Allah?) by Empiree: 11:41pm On Apr 06, 2016 |
AlBaqir:Jazaka Allahu Khayran 1 Like |
| Islam › Re: Worship Vs Greetings (can We Bow Or Prostrate For Others Than Allah?) by Empiree: 11:36pm On Apr 06, 2016 |
AlBaqir: 1 Like |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Christianity; The Religion Not Founded By Jesus by Empiree: 5:00pm On Apr 06, 2016 |
Thomas: Known also as ‘Doubting Thomas’ he is known only for doubting the resurrection of Jesus and refused to believe Jesus was still alive. He is said to have not been with the other disciples when Jesus is alleged to have re-appeared after the crucifixion on the first Easter Day. He is then said to have wanted to feel the bones and flesh of Jesus to ensure he was not actually a ghost or a spirit. A week later, Jesus appeared to him as well and Thomas got his wish. In John’s Gospel, he is known as ‘Didymus’ meaning twin in Greek. Simon the Zealot: He is chiefly known as a member of a group or religious sect who stirred up a rebellion against the Romans after the ascension of Jesus and were known as the ‘Zealots’. Judas Iscariot: The son of Simon Iscariot. A treasurer for the disciples who is thought to have frequently stole 110th of the money for his own use. It is said later the one who betrayed Jesus to the Romans for thirty pieces of silver. He was also the only disciple not to be a native of Galilee. Philip: He is said to have come from Bethsaida and introduced Bartholomew to Jesus. Bartholomew: He is also known as Nathanael and was from Cana, now known as Kfar Kanna. Judas: The son of James and also known as Thaddeus or Labaous. James: Son of Alphaeus. Also known as ‘James the Younger’. The three who were closest to Jesus were Simon Peter, James and John. Although Jesus is alleged to have been native to Nazareth, most of the events described in the first three Gospels occur in Capernaum, further north near Lake Galilee and the River Jordan close to Bethsaida in Phoenicia. Bethsaida then, was one of nine large settlements around the lake. The twelve all known as ‘apostles’ (meaning ‘messenger’) were leaders in their own right, taught both privately by the Messiah and among crowds. All were sent out to preach to various places and teach others themselves and were expected to spread his message to the people. At first, the title ‘saint’ was used exclusively in describing them alone. According to Syed Abul Ala Mawdudi, the word ‘Hawari’ means almost the same as ‘Ansar’ in the Islamic tradition. They were also called both ‘Ansar’ and ‘Muslims’ in the Qur’an and requested to be accepted as Muslims. ‘And when I (Allah) put in the hearts of the disciples (of Jesus) to believe in Me and My Messenger, they said: ‘We believe and bear witness that we are Muslims.’ (Surah 5: 11) In the Bible, the usual terms are ‘apostles’ and ‘disciples’. Jesus’ chosen disciples were called ‘apostles’ in the sense that they had been entrusted with a mission by him (Jesus the Messiah) rather than in the sense of having been entrusted with a mission by Allah (in which case they would have been prophets themselves). They were thus Divine Representatives of Jesus and not Prophetic Representatives of God. Other Famous Disciples Jesus is also said to have had seventy-two other close followers whom he once sent out to recruit people. Out of these only one is actually known whilst others still who might possibly never have seen or met Jesus are also accorded the status of disciples. Barnabas: Originally known as Joseph, he was re-named Barnabas meaning ‘Son of Encouragement, Son of Consolation and Son of Exhortation’ by the twelve disciples. He is the only known member of the seventy-two other disciples of Jesus and was a once friend of Paul of Tarsus. He introduced Paul of Tarsus to the twelve disciples and persuaded them to accept him despite their reservations. He was also either the uncle or cousin of John Mark, the alleged author of ‘The Gospel according to Mark’, one of the four official [canonical] gospels accepted as part of the New Testament. Women Disciples- Mary Magdalene, Salome and Mary (mother of James): These three took spices to anoint the body of Jesus after the crucifixion. Joanna, the wife of Chuza, Suzanna: Nothing is known of them. Stephen: He never met Jesus, but was nonetheless an early convert and a disciple of the disciples. He was ordered to be stoned by the Romans; one of those present who approved of it was, according to the Bible, Paul of Tarsus. James, the brother of Jesus: He was neither the blood brother or foster brother of the Messiah Jesus nor was he known to be a disciple, actual affiliated follower or disciple of disciples. He is said to have opposed Jesus in his lifetime, according to the Christians and thought of him as mad, only after his ascension did he believe in the Messiah. The word ‘brother’ in his time referred to close family relatives such as cousins, hence it is plausible to suggest he was a close relation of Jesus, through the latter’s mother’s side, and was thus referred to as ‘his brother’ or the ‘brother of Jesus’. According to Christian clergymen and historians, he was the leader of the Christians after Jesus ascended, he is known to have held the assemblage of believers together and was killed by the High Priest, Ananas in 62 CE. The Nazarenes The followers of Jesus after he ascended were called ‘Nazarenes’ by others. They did not believe Jesus was a divine or supernatural being. They accepted and embraced him as the Messiah, believed in his return to Earth. The Nazarenes observed the Sabbath, practiced circumcision, did not eat the forbidden foods, fasted, forbade interest, continued the practices of Jesus and strictly observed the Mosaic Law. After attempting to reach an understanding with Paul, the Nazarenes under Simon Peter and James ‘the brother of Jesus’ and Head of the Jerusalem Church, distanced themselves from him and broke irrevocably with him and disowned him. Later the same people were called ‘Ebionites’. They had changed nor altered anything, their opponents chose to separate the first group of followers of Jesus, the original and first Nazarenes, with this group of Nazarenes, their successors who came a generation or more after them. The Ebionites were declared heretics and stigmatised by the Church for refusing to see Jesus as divine and for not attacking Paul as the inventor of Christianity and as an adventurer seeking glory for himself. In some ways the Ebionites were like the Essenes, a Jewish sect that had broken away from Judaism in general and opted out of Jewish society altogether by living in the mountains, the hills and secluded areas away from the towns and cities and founded their own monasteries and institutions. It’s suspected the Essenes had first broken away over the issue of too much concentration of power in the hands of the High Priest; a position officiated by secular figures with a view of preserving foreign control over the Israelites. http://islamicglobalhistory..com/2009/02/hawariyun.html |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Christianity; The Religion Not Founded By Jesus by Empiree: 4:59pm On Apr 06, 2016 |
The disciples were however, not lawgivers and prophets as the title is strictly defined and officially means. The Bible and other historical sources also speak of seventy-two unofficial students and disciples in addition to the twelve. On the Day of Decision, Allah is to remind Jesus of His Special Favours and Divine Support and Assistance to him as a Judge in His Courtroom [Surah 5, Verses 110-120]. One gift among the special honours was the supply of loyal, sincere and diligent disciples and companions for him, while he was a Messenger of Allah among them (during his first ministry in Israel before ascension to the Heavens). In the Ayah- “And when I (Allah) Awhaytu Al-Hawariyyin to believe in Me and My Messenger.” Awhaytu here means ‘inspired’. Al-Hasan Al-Basri said about the Hawariyun “Allah Inspired them.” As-Suddi said, “He [Allah] put in their hearts.” When Isa (AS) returns, his second ministry will commence but his immediate and later companions and followers of that period will not share the same position, reward and outstanding honour as the original disciples of his first ministry, nor will they be included among them as the Hawariyyin or Nasara. Isa (AS) himself once he returns to Earth retains the [Honorific] Office of Apostleship, but only to the Children of Israel of his first ministry and for the period up to and until, the start of his successor’s reign (a total of six hundred years) as Divine Representative and Lawgiver. Isa (AS) is not then, an Apostle to any one after or since the beginning of the Messengership of Muhammad (SAW), his successor and last Prophet of Islam to the World from the Seventh Century until the Day of Decision. On the Day of Decision, Allah will decide the destiny of the multitude of human beings alone without the use or need of Judges. The assemblage of Apostles will with His Divine Permission intercede for their respective nations and communities as well as for those who profess to believe in their Constitutions and Divine Messages. The Prophet Muhammad (SAW) as the last Apostle is responsible to represent, defend, intercede and in specific instances acquit all true believers from and since the Seventh Century for permanent entry into the Kingdom of God. THE NASARA “When Isa (AS) was sent, the Children of Israel were required to follow and obey him. The followers of Isa (AS) and his companions are called ‘An-Nasara’, because they gave aid and support to each other. They are also called ‘Ansar’, (Helpers)”. (Tafseer Ibn Katheer) It was said that they were called ‘Nasara’, because they inhabited a land called ‘An-Nasirah’ (Nazareth), as Qatadah, Ibn Juraij and Ibn Abbas were reported to have said.” (Tafseer Ibn Katheer) The singular form of Nasara is ‘Nasrani’ and although both are used in the Qur’an, neither belongs to the Arabic language at the time of Revelation and are such older Non Arabic words. The equivalent of Nasara in the Arabic of the Qur’an is Ansar. The verb of Ansar is Nasara, which means ‘supported, aided, helped, sided with etc. Ansar likewise means ‘supporters. The term Ansar occurs in the context of calling the true followers of Isa (AS) the Ansar of Isa (AS) on the way to Allah, which means ultimately the supporters of Allah to Whom Isa (AS), was calling and inviting to embrace Islam. The plural of Ansar being Ansarullah (Helpers of Allah), was also applied to the residents of Madina who pledged and gave support to the Prophet Muhammad (SAW) when he arrived in the City. Additionally, Jesus, Son of Mary (Isa Ibn Maryam) and Jesus the Messiah (Isa Al-Masih), his official titles divinely passed down from God later became simply ‘Jesus of Nazareth’ and ‘Son of David’, which actually diminishes his rank, responsibility, official role, special honour and significance in comparison. Only where someone has no other depiction, name or title does the area in which they live become relevant to state they are residents of that location or the other, but where an official designation already exists no such ascription is necessary or desired. However, historians add the word Nasara is not and never was derived from Nazareth, the area Isa (AS) is said to have been from. The word ‘Nazarenes’ referred to the early Christians decades after Isa (AS). It never referred to the residents of the town of Nazareth in Galilee. Christian historians add Mary’s home town [Nazareth] was then a small village situated in a high valley among the southern hills of the Lebanon Range. The name itself means ‘Watch-tower’, possibly they say because it was above the crossroads of major north-south and east-west roads. The town was not in fact then known as Nazareth and is not mentioned at all in the Old Testament, maps of the area/s or historical sources and original documents relevant to the land in general. Some sources suggest and infer it may have been little more than a village at the time of Mary, however outside the Christian scholarship of history the name does not exist anywhere. The word Nasara was already in use by the time the Gospels were written and similarly the same word was used by Arabs to describe the Christians even before the Qur’an was revealed. The common people did however not know the meaning, relevance, ascription, context or etymology of the word. To them, unlike later generations, the words meant nothing more than whom it referred to. A similar term however ‘Nazirite’ existed and occurs in the Old Testament (Judges 13-14), but it referred to someone who was dedicated to God for a distinctive purpose and sometimes this was for a specific period of time. Each Nazirite would take a special vow to serve God for the period they would be allocated this responsibility. The word ‘Nazirite’ itself came from the Hebrew word meaning ‘separated’ or ‘consecrated’. Nazirites were themselves forbidden to cut their hair or drink alcohol. They also had to avoid all contact with dead bodies [including if it is that of their mother, father, brother or sister] so that their bodies remained pure. Some Nazirites were dedicated to God from birth and groomed for the role. In the time of Moses [Numbers 6: 1-21] each Nazirite was in addition to avoid the above also abstained from drinking any kind of drink made from grapes, eat any grapes or raisins or anything that comes from grapevines and included the seeds or skins of grapes. One of the most famous ‘Nazirites’ was Samson the Israelite, who according to the Bible was chosen by God to become a Nazirite for life, instead of a short period of time. He was born to a previously ‘childless couple’ [note the similarity with John the Baptist, Yahya (AS)] and like the Messenger of Allah, Ilyas, was once fed by birds on Allah’s orders when all other means of food and subsistence were unavailable. The stories he had weak resistance to women is not accepted by Muslims and the episode where he stayed for a time in a harlot’s residence is similarly explained in hiding from his enemies and nothing else, the fact that the host was a harlot is a coincidence. The Twelve Disciples themselves Simon, (Sha’moon) leader of the distinguished disciples and one of the closest to Jesus, was a fisherman before becoming a believer. He is said to have been re-named Peter [or Petros in Greek] (meaning Rock or Stone) by Jesus. After the ascension of the Messiah, Simon is said to have been briefly imprisoned (where he was rescued by an angel) and he later travelled to Rome where he became the first Pope (42-67). He is said to have died there, hence Rome became the centre of the new religion. Andrew: The brother of Simon the leader was also a fisherman and became a believer along with his brother Simon. He is known allegedly for introducing people to Jesus and is said to have been originally a disciple of John the Baptist before joining Jesus. James and John, sons of Zebedee: These two were also fisherman and may have worked alongside Simon and Andrew. They are said to have become believers at the same time as Simon and Andrew. Jesus gave the two brothers the title ‘Sons of Thunder’ due to their impulsive natures. Their mother, Salome, was also a disciple, though not one of the twelve, like her sons were. James is also said to have been the first of the disciples to die for his faith. He was beheaded on the orders of King Herod Agrippa. John, the younger of the two, meanwhile is said to have been the only disciple to be present at the crucifixion and the first to see the empty tomb. He is also referred to in the New Testament as the disciple ‘whom Jesus loved’ and is still traditionally believed to be the author of the Gospel according to John. He is said to have been killed by the Jews between 60 and 70 CE. Matthew: Originally known as Levi, he was a tax collector employed by the Romans. He is said to have worked in and around Capernaum. He is said to have been visited and approached by Jesus while he was working and collecting taxes from people. One source says that he was martyred through decapitation. http://islamicglobalhistory..com/2009/02/hawariyun.html |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Christianity; The Religion Not Founded By Jesus by Empiree: 4:58pm On Apr 06, 2016 |
It is stated in Matthew that Simon the Cananean was a disciple, whereas in Luke Simon the Zealot is mentioned. In addition, Matthew states Labaous called Thaddeus to be a disciple, but Luke makes no mention of this name, rather Judas the son of James is stated instead. Commentators generally hold Hawari (Disciple) as a derivative of ‘Hoor’, which means the Whiteness of cloth. A Washerman is called Hawari, and ‘Hawariyoon’ is its plural. When a cloth is whitened after washing, the Arabs have a special word for it. In the perspective of this meaning, the disciples of Hazrat Isa (AS) are known as Hawari either because most of them were Washermen and Fishermen. Also researchers say, it could be because of the fact that as a Washerman whitens a cloth through washing, similarly these disciples would illuminate the hearts of the people through the teachings of Hazrat Isa (AS). Hawari also means ‘Helper’ and ‘Advisor’. Abdul Wahab Najjar says that the disciples of Hazrat Isa being called Hawari, is not without reasoning, but is based on the fact that its origin is ‘Haboor’, a Hebrew word meaning ‘disciple’ and its plural is ‘Haboorium’, which changed into Hawari and ‘Hawaree’n’ in the Arabic language. “Who will be my helper in Allah’s Cause?” (Surah 3, Verse 52, Speech by Jesus) Mujahid commented this means ‘Who would follow me to Allah? [Ibn Abi Hatim] however it appears that Isa (AS) was asking, ‘Who would help me convey the Message of Allah?’ [Propagate, spread and share the responsibility of Dawah to the people] Some of the Children of Israel did believe in Isa (AS) and agreed to give him their aid and support and followed the light that was sent with him. In return Allah has recorded their response in the Qur’an for all future generations to see the covenant and agreement between them. “The Al-Hawariyun said: ‘We are the Helpers of Allah; We believe in Allah, and bear witness that we are Muslims. Our Lord! We believe in what You have sent down, and we follow the Messenger; so write us down among those who bear witness.” (Qur’an, Declaration by the Disciples of Jesus of their religious beliefs to Allah) The Verses speak of the Hawariyyun addressing Allah directly five times and Jesus, their immediate teacher, only once. The first statement refers to helping and assisting Allah’s Representative (Jesus), the second is an affirmation they profess to believe in Allah and are Muslims. The third is an acceptance of acknowledging the truth, legitimacy, final authority and validity of the scripture sent to Jesus by the Hawariyyun. The fourth is the most explicit reference to Jesus, albeit without naming him specifically or mentioning his more prestigious titles of Messiah, Son of Man etc. The last is a request to Allah to accept them as true believers and witnesses in their allegiance to Islam as a recorded fact written down for all to see that they have fulfilled their duty and did what they were asked. The Hawariyun also refer to Jesus [indirectly] as ‘The Messenger’, as someone whom they follow. In the above verses they are not invoking Jesus as an intermediary between them and Allah, they approached Allah directly. “We are Allah’s Helpers” also means ‘We will support you with the Message you have been sent with and will help you convey it. Isa (AS) later sent the disciples to the various areas of Ash-Sham to call the Greeks and the Israelites to Islam. (Ibn Katheer) It is thought although Jesus had many followers, he selected twelve among them to be his special team of official disciples. It seems they twelve most important disciples were given the title of ‘apostles’. http://islamicglobalhistory..com/2009/02/hawariyun.html |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Christianity; The Religion Not Founded By Jesus by Empiree: 4:57pm On Apr 06, 2016 |
[size=15pt]HAWARIYUN:[/size] The Disciples Of Jesus The Quran refers to those few people who had brought faith upon Jesus, followed him, supported him and helped him as the Hawa`riyun. These were the disciples of Jesus. This name, Hawa`riyun is especially employed for those people who followed Jesus and helped him and not for the followers of any other Prophets, although every Prophet has a Hawari (‘sincere companion’) says the Prophet Muhammad in the following Hadith: "Every Prophet has a Hawari (sincere companion), and my Hawari is Zubair" The Definition of Hawariyun Literally, the word Hawariyun is the plural of Hawariyun which means "He who whitens clothes", "He who has been appointed chosen and purified from all kinds of defects", "a companion and a helper". The exegetes have derived it from the root word Hawr, which possess the following definitions: to whiten, to bleach, to purify, to clean, to change, to transform, to amend and to alter, etc. Different opinions have been given by the Mufassirs as to why the followers of Isa (Jesus) were given this title: Imam Ibn Kathir (d.774/1352) has stated, "The Helpers of Jesus have been named Hawariyun because of their white clothes.” According to Ibn Kathir ‘Hawari’ in Arabic means ‘support’. Hafiz Ibn Hajar Al-Asqalani has stated from Sufyan Sawri that he has said, "Hawari means a helper" Qatadah (d.117/695) has said that, "It carries the definition of he who is capable of being a Caliphate (Caliph or Minister)." Yunus ibn Habib has mentioned that Hawari is a ‘sincere person’ and Ibn Al-Kalbi has defined it as meaning ‘a friend’. The Hawariyun in the Light of the Quran The Quran has addressed the disciples of Jesus as Hawariyun, five times in four different verses. "When Jesus found disbelief on their part, he said, "Who will be my helpers in the work of Allah?" The Hawariyun (disciples) replied, "We are Allah’s helpers, we believe in Allah and you bear witness that we are Muslims." (Surah 3, Verse 52) A similar statement from the disciples has been recorded in the chapter entitled "Rows", verse fourteen as follows: "O ye who believe! Be the helpers of Allah as Jesus, the Son of Maryam (Mary) said to the Hawariyun, "Who will be my helpers in the work of Allah?" The Hawariyun said, "We are helpers of Allah." Then a portion of the children of Israel believed and a portion disbelieved, but We gave power to those who believed against their enemies, so that they became the ones that prevailed." (Surah 61, Verse 14) The Hawariyun, disciples, have been praised exceptionally and promised to be given superiority in the following verse of the Quran as well: ‘Remember when Allah said, "O Jesus! I will take you and raise you to Myself and purify you of the falsehoods and of those who blaspheme. I will make those who follow you, superior to those who reject faith, to the day of resurrection. Then you shall return to Me and I will judge between you of the matters wherein you dispute." (Surah 3, Verse 55) THE NAMES OF THE HAWARIYUN Imam Qurtubi mentions that, the Hawariyun were twelve in number, but he does not give their names, except the name of the leader of the Hawariyun as Sham’oon (Simon Peter or Cephas) in the miracle of the ascension of the table, saying, "Sham’oon, the leader of the disciples, asked, "Is this food that of paradise or the food of this world?" Jesus’ reply was, "This is food specially created for you, it is neither from paradise or this world. Allah said to it, "BE," and so it was." The disciples of Jesus (including Sham’oon known more popularly as Simon Peter) who were living after the ascension of Isa (Jesus) are held to be respectable and honest by the Muslims. They are not, however considered to be Prophets. They were ordinary human beings and not free from human errors. Their teachings and their statements have lost validity through the absence of authenticated historical verification. Contradictory Names Of Jesus’ Disciples in the Bible [Matt 10:2] Matthew gives the names of the disciples of Jesus. [Luke 6:13] But Luke mentions two names, which are different from those, recorded in Matthew. One among the disciples, Judas Iscariot (son of Simon Iscariot) was the treasurer or keeper of money and had been entrusted this role by Jesus. He later betrayed Jesus for it is said, thirty pieces of silver, and died soon afterwards. He is also said to have helped himself to some of the money he was responsible for whilst still a disciple. http://islamicglobalhistory..com/2009/02/hawariyun.html |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Christianity; The Religion Not Founded By Jesus by Empiree: 4:47pm On Apr 06, 2016 |
Scholar8200:You keep mixing stuff to soothe you. Well, underlined, where in the Quran is praises "Peter" and which verse of Quran is that?. Want to know. I am nt here to defend Peter. I dont know him. I am here to defend Hawariyun, disciples, who truthfully grasped Jesus' teaching and taught it. "The disciples were continually learning. They didn't have it all together and they didn't truly understand everything Jesus said or tried to teach them. They saw him calm a storm and raise the dead to life again. They even were given power to heal the sick and cast out demons, but we're limited by their lack of faith on occasion. Peter figured out Jesus was the Christ, the son of the Living God, but then he denied knowing Him. It wasn't until after the resurrection did the disciples eventually come to know who Jesus really was. Thomas got it right fairly quickly at least in word when he exclaimed "My Lord and my God". ~ Anonymous |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Christianity; The Religion Not Founded By Jesus by Empiree: 4:37pm On Apr 06, 2016*. Modified: 4:15am On Apr 10, 2016 |
Scholar8200:This is actually your job not me. First all, for Peter or any other disciples mentioned in the Bible to be accepted by Muslims, their message/teachings must be in harmony with what Jesus preached. And what Jesus preached according to Quran, is aided by the Bible to certain extent which Quran also ascertains that his true disciples held on to. If extant Bible is saying something different or mixes teachings, then, we reject it. Jesus message is very clear as day light 1 Like |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Christianity; The Religion Not Founded By Jesus by Empiree: 4:31pm On Apr 06, 2016 |
Scholar8200:Still irrelevant to me. You really trying hard to catch. How Peter was killed and why still not relevant to me. Isnt the same Bible recorded Peter's betrayal of Jesus at the time of arrest or crucifixion? |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Christianity; The Religion Not Founded By Jesus by Empiree: 4:02pm On Apr 06, 2016 |
^^ Shallow reply. I knew that was exactly what you tried to do.Anyways, Muslims have exaplined the so called "son of God" or Sonship many times. Remember I asked you in other thread what sonship means with respect to "begotten son"?. You said begotten was not defined to you. So now, question is according to Mr. Peter, what is his understanding of begotten, and is sonship or son of God literally or metaphorically? And apart from that, where is the original manuscripts or I should say the exact language spoken by Simon Peter used for "Son Of God". This is English language that only came around centuries after Jesus. Until you can prove that, then, your logic is still baseless. Note, Go back to my post you just quoted, i didnt finish it before. I have added few things Remind You Again Of The Hadith The following are Hadith (narrations originating from the words Muhammad), collected by Muslim ibn al-Hajjaj Nishapuri, which indirectly emphasize Islamic beliefs concerning the disciples of Jesus: It is narrated on the authority 'Abdullah b. Mas'ud that the Messenger of God observed: Never a Prophet had been sent before me by God towards his nation who had not among his people (his) disciples and companions who followed his ways and obeyed his command. Then there came after them their successors who said whatever they did not practice, and practiced whatever they were not commanded to do. He who strove against them with his hand was a believer: he who strove against them with his tongue was a believer, and he who strove against them with his heart was a believer and beyond that there is no faith even to the extent of a mustard seed. Abu Rafi' said: I narrated this hadith to 'Abdullah b. 'Umar; he contradicted me. There happened to come 'Abdullah b. Mas'ud who stayed at Qanat, and 'Abdullah b 'Umar wanted me to accompany him for visiting him (as 'Abdullah b. Mas'ud was ailing), so I went along with him and as we sat (before him) I asked Ibn Mas'ud about this hadith. He narrated it in the same way as I narrated it to Ibn 'Umar. The same hadith has been transmitted by another chain of narrators on the authority of 'Abdullah b. Mas'ud who observed: Never was there one among the prophets who had had not disciples who followed his direction and followed his ways. The remaining part of the hadith is like that as narrated by Salih but the arrival of Ibn Mas'ud and the meeting of Ibn 'Umar with him is not mentioned. — Sahih Muslim |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Christianity; The Religion Not Founded By Jesus by Empiree: 3:40pm On Apr 06, 2016 |
Scholar8200:This is your homework. It's quiet irrelevant when it comes to islam. Quran only sums it up by saying "among Jesus awariyun (disciples) are believers. Amongst them are disbelievers. We not concerned about their names. Not even sahaba (companions) of the prophet muhammad mentioned by name in the Qur'an. If you have Jesus' disciples in the bible recorded to have preached Jesus pure teachings, bring them forward. Now, do you have any proof or sample of group of believers or disciples/followers of Christ before Muhammed that did not believe any of those highlighted?I know what you trying to do. This is very simple. I can't categori call mention names because Qur'an does not. All we know is Quran recognizes believers, hypocrites and disbelievers amongst his followers. For example in sura 3:52 "When Jesus sensed their refusal to acknowledge the truth, he asked, "Who are my supporters in God's cause?" The disciples said, "We are God's supporters. We have believed in God, so bear witness that we have submitted". If Allah commended them then not having any sample of such believers or disciples either in history/hadith with obvious proof that they existed between 33AD and 500AD etc calls for questioning. Why not call in your ustadh who may just have an idea?We can not reply on extant Bible to derive who those disciples are because it is a mix. If Peter's teaching of Jesus in the Bible you have says Jesus is a messanger, prophets, and servant of God, then, we accept him as a true disciple. But if he (according to the bible) says Jesus is son of God, or he is God or art of trinity, then we throw it in the garbage. However, we as Muslims have to be careful not to accuse Mr. Peter because it is Bible writers that speak for him. He might as well be a true disciple of Jesus(P). My point is those whom you regard as true disciples of Jesus in the Bible, if their teachings are in conflict with message Jesus brought, which is "Hear O Isreal, God Is One", then, we reject it. |
| Family › Re: I Am Suspecting My Wife Is Cheating On Me by Empiree: 3:32pm On Apr 06, 2016 |
lebroske:Dont probe her buddy. She may have a "surprise package" for you. You remember a song by a man and a woman, "Islamic music", where the man did everything in secret for his wife but his wife perceived it in a negative way. The next thing she did was she hired machineries to kill her husband over a supposed Will. She thought the Will was not in her favor because she had no access to her husband gadgetry to snoop on him. By the time killers came, they see the man as responsible fellow and decided to investigate his moves on his wife. He explained to them that he planned a "surprised package" which included, a new house, car, maid etc for his wife alone and wanted to keep everything secret. Then they revealed to him that his wife sent them. Genesis of this is that your wife may be planing beautiful and furnshed surprised package for you. But if you snoop you lose |
| Islam › Re: Jesus Disciples by Empiree: 2:33pm On Apr 06, 2016 |
ayenny02: |
| Islam › Re: Jesus Disciples by Empiree: 2:28pm On Apr 06, 2016 |
Scholar8200, this is a suitable thread for your concern but I am still going to post my prepared reply there anyways. Catch fun here, buddy. |
| Jokes Etc › Re: My Hilarious Picture Album by Empiree: 12:02pm On Apr 06, 2016 |
When your baby REFUSE to drink milk,prefers BEER instead ! https://www.facebook.com/300527826745580/videos/637255443072815/ 1 Like |
| Islam › Re: Praying Against Old Age by Empiree: 6:43pm On Apr 05, 2016*. Modified: 7:40pm On Apr 05, 2016 |
Bnladan Nafizzey, omaxiwola01 abbeysoul, adesinaabolaji, Azeez259, ShaheedBinAliyu BETATRON, mskata, midolian, nisai, tola9jaa, sawsaw MuhdG, Presbulg haffaze777 xtic2yz Trottle, goodgate, abduljabbar4 shahydbinaliyu Gboskee, Emmeritus, missphumby, 9jaforlife, alsudaes1, theGuest, HAkorehdeh EmmGee, AlBaqir zeezzy, lanrexlan ameenahz, Jamo90, luvlyoracle, born2lead01, Niyyah Harmthe, Wealthyone, whealthy kolomax, odave, trukoments Toheeb31 jaymichael, tumaraya, heskeyw ladyshawlecx dmjinc, rhemakid1 zemaye, tola9ja, Rilwayne001, kawzlaw2000, kennyosein, MrOlai, Sino 2 Likes |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Christianity; The Religion Not Founded By Jesus by Empiree: 5:39pm On Apr 05, 2016 |
Scholar8200:I dont think you get it yet. There is nothing like "non-trinitarian". It is a terminology used by later christians. It is your homework to find wh they are. They are actually on NL and they disagree with you. By 'non trinitarian' we mean those christians wh dont believe in God the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost. They exist here on NL. As for historical reference, Quran simply recognizes believers amongst Jesus disciples. Those who reject him are simply disbelievers. It's Christians denominations that categorized those terms And I think i skipped where you asked me to quote ayah of Quran in reference to "clarification". That's your homework because you brought it up. Quote it then we take it from there. Besides, since you said this:where did i make statement @underlined?. Those who say Jesus is God or son of God or believe in trinity are all condemned by Quran. They commit major sins and there are textual references for them. And these sins are not like committing fornication or adultery (that are forgivable). These are sins that are NOT and cannot be forgiven. I quoted two verses earlier that Quran recognizes some disciples as Muslims I dont know their names. But if Paul, Peter etc are considered disciples but yet believed in Divinity and Sonship of Jesus, then, they arent believers. They must be those who rejected faith. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Christianity; The Religion Not Founded By Jesus by Empiree: 4:36pm On Apr 05, 2016 |
rexben:You may never understand |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Christianity; The Religion Not Founded By Jesus by Empiree: 4:33pm On Apr 05, 2016 |
Scholar8200:Since all prophets and messangers came from same One God, Allah, Quran is referring to a Book (revelation), not "book of revelation" given to Jesus son of Mary. It is called Injeel. And those who follow Jesus claimed they have the book as well as you claimed too. You claimed you believe in the same Jesus(p). After doing our research, we found out that what you called the Bible attributed to Jesus is actually about him because you have many writers, known and unknown. Since that's all you have, we can only deduce from it what is in harmony with Islam. We believe 100% that Jesus brought nothing but one message that other prophets and messangers before him brought and it is the same message Muhammad(p) brought which Lailaha ilaAllah i:e There is no deities other than Allah. But the Bible says something else even though it contain of shahada as well. Christian also believe differently from the bible. This become major theological differences That's NOT concealment! Is the whole OT not in their Bibles? Besides, Jesus ministered in the NT hence I wonder your claim that they concealed His words.I should ask you why you also have OT?. When i said you concealed his words, let me give you example of that. Is Jesus God? You would say 'yes'. If I ask you how, you would give me bunch of mixed up verses that Jesus did not utter to proof your point. But if I ask rexben if Jesus is God?, he would say no because according to him, Jesus did not make such claim which is very correct and in harmony with Islam. So if both of you claim to read the same Book, why do you have major differences in theology?. If I ask you is Jesus son of God?. You would say 'yes'. If I ask you how, you would come up with complicated notion which Jesus never approved of. Which means you conceal his true message. And who are these 'true, non-trinitarian christian' people the Quran commends? Sabellanists? Or Gnostics? Or Arians?etc these are sects that fit your description. Besides it means Allah was fiercely against the Vaudois and other custodians who preserved every word of the Syrian Bible handed down to them with their very lives. Why? The Bible they so preserved clearly agrees with the Trinity!We are not neccessarily concerned about non-trinitarian becuase they themselves believe in gravious sin like Jesus is son of God. We are only concerned about those who were with Jesus and believed in him and his true message. Quran says: "And when Jesus sensed their faithlessness, he said, ‘Who will be my helpers towards Allah?’ The Disciples said, ‘We will be helpers of Allah. We have faith in Allah, and bear witness that we are muslims.'’ S. 3:52 "And when I inspired the Disciples, [saying], ‘Have faith in Me and My apostle,’ they said, ‘We have faith. Bear witness that we are muslims.'' S. 5:111 Underlined, what that Bible version they so preserved . And no Allah did not commend those who tampered with scripture. That's opinion. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Christianity; The Religion Not Founded By Jesus by Empiree: 12:12pm On Apr 05, 2016*. Modified: 12:32pm On Apr 05, 2016 |
Scholar8200:It is a waste of time to try to twist anything here. Extant Bible, whatever truth left in it that is in harmony with Quran is what Jesus(p) thought and muslims believe. The verses I quoted mentioned "Book" not Bible. You people chose to call it Bible. And why is it that the Quran has no certain position on the people of the Book? In one part it claims they hold on to a 'damnable'(by islamic standards) teaching, in another place it claims they are candidates for heaven yet else where it says muslims are to seek clarifications from them, then some NL muslims claim the Book referred to is elusive! Which do you choose?!Hey buddy, dont get it twisted at all. Quran is speaking of the earlier people who followed Jesus' teachings. It says that some amongst them hide true message of Jesus. Quran recognizes some people amongst the people of the book of the time who are upon tahweed which Jesus brought. Therefore, it makes perfect sense for Quran to commend them for holding up the truth. Hence, they are candidates of heaven. They weren't Christians of trinity as prevalent today etc. We can apply it today actually where Christians use OT where it soothes them. They do not preach lots of certain verses from OT to church goers today. That's concealment. As for seeking clarification, we have explained this many times. The verse has nothing to do with asking you for guidance. It is speaking of historical event. It is not advising Muslims to seek the right religion, who Jesus was from Christians and Jews. Definitely not. Besides, the existence of sects predates the Quran, has always been there in the Inter-testament periods down to the AD early centuries (centuries before Muhammed came on the scene) but the Church universal is preserved hence those quotes appear to be a rather historical, not prophetical statement.Can you tell us those sects at that time before Quran was revealed?. The sects thing was not obvious. It was rather confusion after Jesus had gone. Majority of his (jesus) people simply rejected him in his lifetime. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Christianity; The Religion Not Founded By Jesus by Empiree: 3:15am On Apr 05, 2016 |
Scholar8200:The dude is confused But do I blame him? No. You know why?. I have proved it before using Quran, why christian doctrines will always differ. Quran said so in Sura 5:14"And from those who call themselves Christians, We took their covenant, but they have abandoned a good part of the Message that was sent to them. So We planted amongst them enmity and hatred till the Day of Resurrection (when they discarded Allah's Book, disobeyed Allah's Messengers and His Orders and transgressed beyond bounds in Allah's disobedience), and Allah will inform them of what they used to do". ^ Covenant talking about in this verse is the belief in Muhammad(Quran) and Jesus(Injeel). Because you rejected Quran, Allah says that you (Christians) will never concord on the same theology till Last Day. Isn't Quran correct?. I am going to add the brother, rexben in my list of another lone "christian" who believes in parts of the Book(Bible) but reject other parts. Matter of fact Quran speaks of that as well in Sura Baqarah (2:85) "...............Do you then believe in a part of the Book and disbelieve in the other? What then is the re ward of such among you as do this but disgrace in the life of this world, and on the day of resurrection they shall be sent back to the most grievous chastisement, and Allah is not at all heedless of what you do." Thats a clear warning and admonishment for you rexben. You will NEVER see any Muslims to reject part of Quran. Rejection of any verse of Quran take you outside te fold of Islam. Islam makes sense right? |
| Islam › Re: Islam For Muslims: Side Talk Station by Empiree: 1:25pm On Apr 04, 2016 |
Pictures And Hadith of the day
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| Jokes Etc › Re: My Hilarious Picture Album by Empiree: 8:55pm On Apr 03, 2016 |
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| Christianity Etc › Re: Christianity; The Religion Not Founded By Jesus by Empiree: 1:57pm On Apr 03, 2016 |
rexben:You Are OYO man |
| Jokes Etc › Re: My Hilarious Picture Album by Empiree: 1:05am On Apr 03, 2016 |
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| Christianity Etc › Re: Christianity; The Religion Not Founded By Jesus by Empiree: 11:23pm On Apr 02, 2016*. Modified: 1:00am On Apr 03, 2016 |
rexben: John 8:31-32,i continue in His words as recorded in Matthew,Mark,Luke and John only.You confused man? So you dont believe in other Books in the the Bible like this one?
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| Christianity Etc › Re: Christianity; The Religion Not Founded By Jesus by Empiree: 11:21pm On Apr 02, 2016 |
rexben:Did i say he was?. I said Bible. I didn't mention Jesus |
| Culture › Re: Islam And Shariah In Yorubaland by Empiree: 5:50pm On Apr 02, 2016 |
Demmzy15:Yea, right. Sheik Adam(RA) was right when he said Islam was already in Yorubaland longer than recorded but aye ko gba i:e it was inconvenienced by the oppositions. I watched Sheik Adam's video on the history of Islam in Yorubaland. Very interesting. What's even funny was Mansa Musa, in his early days of conversion when he was introduced to Islam.... that Islam consists of 5 daily rakat. When he was taught numbers of rakat for each salat, Mansa Musa would say "Fajr fajr (2x) salam alaikum, Aila aila aila aila(4x) salam alaikum, Alasati alasari alasari alasari(4x) salam alaikum, Maghrib, maghrib maghrib(3x) salam alaikum, Isha isha isha isha"(4x) and salam alaikum at the end. That was his understanding |
| Islam › Re: Islam For Muslims: Side Talk Station by Empiree: 2:40pm On Apr 02, 2016 |
Fundamentalist:Your opinion |
| Islam › Re: Islam For Muslims: Side Talk Station by Empiree: 2:37pm On Apr 02, 2016 |
Fundamentalist:Everything is rubbish.....this salawat is rubbish too?. Grow up akhi |
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