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away4real:

Quote from: KunleOshob on Today at 11:40:29 AM
To answer this question, please be reminded that Abraham came from the city of Ur in babylonia(genesis 11:31). Tithes was a common tradition amongst the babylonian people of that time and it was normally given to kings and rulers. Please note that Melchizedek whom abraham gave tithes to was the King of Salem. In short Abraham's tithe was as a result of babylonian tradition and NOT a religious injunction. To know more about "babylonian tithes" just do a googlr search on it and the facts would present themselves

Melchizedek is a KING and a PRIEST

Jesus is a PRIEST in the order of Melchizedek and KING OF KINGS.

Tithing is in order. It predates the Law, its one of the ways of GIVING to GOD, as well as FIRST FRUIT which is the topic. Like I said before your resources must go into 3 places: GOD, SELF and OTHERS. Your understanding of how to give in these 3 ways will help you in your in your giving. Even the giving to SELF many people still do not understand how but thought they do.

Mt 22:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.

Mr 12:24 And Jesus answering said unto them, Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power of God?

It takes someone that has not discovered this TRUTH about GOD to think there is nobody that is sincerely serving GOD.

1 Kings 19:10 And he said, I have been very jealous for the LORD God of hosts: for the children of Israel have forsaken thy covenant, thrown down thine altars, and slain thy prophets with the sword; and I, even I only, am left; and they seek my life, to take it away. (Like the thoughts of so many people)

Even Prophet Elijah thought that he was the only one in Israel that is standing for GOD until God told him otherwise in 1 Kings 19:18 quoted below. God did not say one, two, fifteen or one thousand but a whooping seven thousand people that were also faithfully abiding (you should be staggared with this revelation from God). Your understanding of the scriptures will help you in issues like this. This understanding will let you know that there are men/women in the Police that will not collect bribe, men/ladies on campuses that are virgins, Christians (Pastor/members) that are standing right and not fall victim of the topic, civil servants that do not collect bribes etc. But if you think you know more that God, then you are on your own.

1Kings 19:18 Yet I have left me seven thousand in Israel, all the knees which have not bowed unto Baal, and every mouth which hath not kissed him.

So when they say that "every body is doing it" and you believe it then you are one of the most gullible people on nairaland.

Shalom!

[/quote][quote author=KunleOshob link=topic=238404.msg3583240#msg3583240 date=1236854429]
To answer this question, please be reminded that Abraham came from the city of Ur in babylonia(genesis 11:31). Tithes was a common tradition amongst the babylonian people of that time and it was normally given to kings and rulers. Please note that Melchizedek whom abraham gave tithes to was the King of Salem. In short Abraham's tithe was as a result of babylonian tradition and NOT a religious injunction. To know more about "babylonian tithes" just do a googlr search on it and the facts would present themselves

GENESIS 14:18 And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God.

Why did you leave out this important information about Melchizedek.

Consider:

Revelation 1:6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

Revelation 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.[/b]

[/quote][quote author=ttalks link=topic=238404.msg3580852#msg3580852 date=1236800687]
So,if Jacob is an example for u tithers to follow, that means u guys should not pay tithes unless God blesses u first or does something for u first, right?
Your tithes should be conditional then.

Jacob made a promise of his own accord.He was not required to make such a promise or to keep the content of the promise.
And most importantly,it was never recorded or shown that he redeemed that promise so we cannot assume he did.
Remember, Jacob was a sharp guy; a wuru wuru player.

At the point of leaving, Jacob was repentant and very sober that was why his father-in-law was able to cheat him 10 times. The question is who taught him (Jacob) the concept of tithing. He must have seen his grandfather Abraham and his father Jacob exercising their faith via Tithing.

Your resources must go into 3 places: GOD, SELF (and everyone you’re primarily responsible for) and OTHERS (the poor, widows, fatherless/orphans, institution and organizations). Please let us go and learn various ways by which we give to GOD, SELF and OTHERS. I believe this will help our understanding. There is distinction between these three and you must be faithful concerning these. Abraham gave tithe of ALL.

To those that are saying that the Apostles and early Christians did not pay tithe; they were paying 100%. Anania and Saphirra paid part and they died. 100% was not the ideal but it was necessary at that time. These were some of the consequences: Laziness (if a man will not work let him not eat), busy boding (that made Paul to write that young widows should not be catered for by the church) from there everybody begin to responsible to his GOD, SELF and OTHERS.

To the topic: First fruit is one of the ways of giving to GOD. If your spirit have not been able to receive this let nobody force it on you, understand it you may find yourself doing it tomorrow. I know what it took for me to begin to speak-in-tongue, for I was waiting for what will open my mouth and begin to say Bla, bla, bla. But today I speak in tongue. What will help you is your exposure to the word of GOD and not necessarily the arguments on this forum continue to study the WORD.

Thithing is an exercise of FAITH and not just obeying the law. It predates the law. If you want to have understanding concerning any thing check the beginning, that is the law of first mention. Many arguments will not consider this. Abraham tithed by faith, Jacob tithed also by faith. , for whatsoever is not of faith is sin. Romans 14:23

She only wants to put legal backing to her marriage. She may not mean any harm. Come to think of it wont' you rush to this same registry when you win US Visa lottery and want to emigrate with your family?. I you mean well for your marriage to her always you've got nothing to fear.

KunleOshob:

@EOA
No it does note suggest that we should we should "pay" tithe as i have said there is no were in the bible that the word "pay" was used as regards tithes because biblical tithing if not and can never be money. Besides Jesus was refering to the pharisees of that time and they were under the laws of moses so it was ok for them to "tithe". and when i say tithes here i am refering to the scriptural definition of tithes as defined in the bible (ten per cent of the produce of the land and herds which must be eaten in the presence of God) and not the morden day adulteration that refers to it as money or income. Kindly note that even in those days people also earned wages, they were never asked to tithe their wages.

Look at this commentary by Albert Barnes (New Testament commentary) on this scripture: Matthew 23:23

Verse 23.  Ye pay tithe. A tenth part. The law required the Jews to devote a tenth part of all their property to the support of the Levites, Numbers 18:20-24. Another tenth part they paid for the service of the sanctuary, commonly in cattle or grain; but where they lived far from the place of worship, they changed it to money; Deuteronomy 14:22-25 Besides these, there was to be every third year a tenth part given to the poor, to be eaten at their own dwellings, Deuteronomy 14:28,29. So that nearly one-third of the property of the Jews was devoted to religious services by law. This was beside the voluntary offerings which they made. How much more mild and gentle are the laws of Christianity under which we live!

 Mint. A garden herb, in the original so called from its agreeable flavour. It was used to sprinkle the floors of their houses and synagogues, to produce a pleasant fragrance.

 Anise. Known commonly among us as dill. It has a fine aromatic smell, and is used by confectioners and perfumers.

 Cummin. A plant of the same genus, like fennel, and used for similar purposes. These were all herbs of little value. The law of Moses said that they should pay tithes of the fruits of the earth, De 14:22. It said nothing, however, about herbs. It was a question whether these should be tithed. The Pharisees maintained, in their extraordinary strictness, that they ought. Our Saviour says that they were precise in doing small matters, which the law had not expressly commanded, while they omitted the greater things which it had enjoined.

 Judgment. Justice to others, as magistrates, neighbours, citizens. Giving to all their just dues.

 Mercy. Compassion and kindness to the poor and miserable.

 Faith. Piety towards God; confidence in him. Faith in God here means that we are to give to him what is his due; as mercy and justice mean to do to MEN, in all circumstances, what is right toward them.

 These ought ye to have done. Attention to even the smallest points of the law of God is proper, but it should not interfere with the higher and more important parts of that law.

{i} "you pay tithe" Lu 11:42
{1} "anise" or, "dill"
{k} "weightier matters" 1Sa 15:22; Jer 22:15,16; Ho 6:6; Mic 6:8 Mt 9:13


Deuteronomy 14:22-26

22 Thou shalt truly tithe all the increase of thy seed, that the field bringeth forth year by year.
23 And thou shalt eat before the LORD thy God, in the place which he shall choose to place his name there, the tithe of thy corn, of thy wine, and of thine oil, and the firstlings of thy herds and of thy flocks; that thou mayest learn to fear the LORD thy God always.
24 And if the way be too long for thee, so that thou art not able to carry it; or if the place be too far from thee, which the LORD thy God shall choose to set his name there, when the LORD thy God hath blessed thee:
25 Then shalt thou turn it into money, and bind up the money in thine hand, and shalt go unto the place which the LORD thy God shall choose: 26 And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,

From the above scripture, the highlited verse 25, you will see it "remotely" talks about the possibilities of converting your tithe to money, by reason of say distance. So in this our time that things have been monetised, how do you think we should pay our tithes as we would love to pay.

Question:
Those that were receiving wages in the Old Testament, were they exempted from paying tithes?

Summary:
1. There are 3 forms of tithes.
2. You should pay tithe. Luke 11:42
3. Tithe can be monetized. Deuteronomy 14:25
4. Jesus Christ used the word PAY when he spoke concerning tithe. Matthew 23:23

Shalom!

KunleOshob:

@EOA
stop quoting the bible out of context the weightier things being refered to in you last post is the Jugdement and love of God and i still maintain that there is no were in the bible that remotely suggests that tithes is 10% of your income (that is also quoting the bible out of context)

I am not quoting the bible out of context. I have asked you to interpret to us the meaning of the statement by Jesus Christ in Luke 11 :42 which says "But WOE unto you pharises For ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herb and pass over JUDGMENT and the LOVE OF GOD: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone ". Is that not a scripture that remotely suggest that we should pay tithe.

Shalom!

@ KunleOshob

KunleOshob:

EOA it is not true that Jesus commended the pharises for collecting tithes, the truth is that Jesus rebuke them for paying too much emphasis on tithes as it is being done today, read luke 11 :42 which says "But WOE unto you pharises For ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herb and pass over JUDGMENT and the LOVE OF GOD: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone "

Obviously nobody as been able to counter my arguments with any bible scripture, i guess there is no bible scripture quoted in proper context that supports the payment of tithe as it is being interpreted today. I challenge anyone to quote the bible passage that remotely suggests that tithes is money or money is tithable as the bible is very clear that tithes should be eaten, hence it is food. Also not that contrary to what you mordern day advocates of tithing are preaching there is no were in the bible that uses the word "pay" when it comes to tithes it uses the word "bring" as i said except you want to continue deceiving your self, i have stated enough evidence back by scriptures that tithes is not money and it is not required of us as christians. If anybody cannot back up his opinion scripturally, then he or she as no business commenting on this topic we are all seeking to know the biblical truth as directed by God.

Kindly interpret the highlighted part of your statement above.

Check on all the commentaries on this topic and scriptures, I believe you will have better understanding. Jesus said that our righteoussness should exceed that of Pharisees and Sadducees. Aside paying your tithe you should do more the weigthier things said by Jesus. I dont know about you, most people that pay correctly their tithe(10%), give to the poor and others (benevolence) on the average what is more than 10 % of their income apart from tithe. If non payment of Tithe and doing the weightier things only is GOOD to you, the combination of the two is RIGHT to me. I have learnt that "it is not all good thing that is right, but there is no rignt thing that is not good".

Shalom!

@

KunleOshob:

EOA, i would read up the quotd scriptures you quoted when i get hold of the bible, i was just disappointed that you failed to comment on the most important part of that post which is hebrew 7 :11- 13 which states that the leviticel law must change!! I wonder why all our pastors are ignoring that statement

What to be abolished in the Levitical laws Jesus has abolished and what to be sustained, He sustained, Jesus disemphasised Sabbath, abolish any form of animal sacrifice, special washing of hand and other form of washings etc, but he commended tithing. Like I said before, what Jesus Christ commanded and/or commeded is what I believe we should do.

Levite is the general name of the tribe of the Priest and the generation of Levi. That someone belong to the royal family does not entitled him/her to royalties, it is only the reigning person in the royal family that is entitled to it. Let me warn, the devil will prefer you use your substance (money) you should have set out to pay tithe to do benevolence than for you to want to pay tithe. All form of giving carries its own specific/particular reward. Consider the testimonies of some of the contributors. I had my doubts initially about tithing initially, but I'm now persuaded about it. Jesus Christ talked about you sowing and reaping 30, or 60, or 100 folds. What do you think determines the level of reward?. Tithing is by personal conviction, who taught Abraham to tithe, or Jacob to Tithe. These were just step of faith by these Patriarches.

Brother, SHALOM!

@ KunleOshob

There is a difference between a Priest and the Levites. You pay your tithe to the priests not the levites. The Levites are tabernacle worker. The Priests are like the tabernacle officers. You must pay your TITHE to the priest, what is left is what you wilfully share with the levites, the poors etc. The tithe to the priest is only eaten by them and their wards and this is alway one-tenth.

KunleOshob:

Image123 i am beginning to suspect that you are a pastor who benefits from tithes and specializes in quoting the bible out of context otherwise when you were quoting hebrews 7 you would not have left out verses 11-13 which stated that "it was on the basis of the levitical priesthood that the law was given to the people of israel" it also said "the levitical law must change" because the levitical priesthood is of a lower order to the priesthood of our lord Jesus christ. it also stated that jesus christ is not from the tribe of levites that collects tithes. It is preachers like image 123 that consistenly manupulate the bible to suit their purposes. As far as i know everything thing i have written in this articule is the undiluted word of God and not what somebody as manupulated it to be, and that is why i backed everything i wrote with the scriptures. if anyone is in doubt please pick up your bibles and crosscheck

That is not all about tithe that you have quoted. You are neglecting the fact that there is more that is presented with tithe. When they gave tithe, it is given with other offerings, sin offering, thanksgiving offering, heave offerings, vows, freewill givings etc. The priests, levites and their children are entitled to tithe. What is shared with family member, the poor by the people are other offerings always brought with tithe. (See Hannah & Elkanah in Shiloh: The portion Elkanah used to give Hannah, is it the tithe)

Check these passages: Le 27:30; De 12:5-7,17; Ne 10:37

@ Poster

What Jesus commanded and/or commended is what is to be done.

Matthew 23 Vs 23: Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Jesus here did not condemned them for paying tithe, but for neglecting things He considered to be of more importance. We should understand the style of Jesus. When He was addressing the 7 churches in the book of Revelation, we will discover that His style was to commend and then rebuke. In Matthew 23 Vs 23, Jesus commended the Pharisees for paying tithe and rebuked them like is said earlier for omitting or failing to do the weightier matters.

Brethren, I think what is to be done are what Jesus Christ commanded and/or commended.

@ Jazes:
Its high time we all agreed to the fact that the bible is the standard for all we do in the church.If its not found and well grounded in the body of scriptures then its a lie and it doesnt matter whether it is what everybody does or not.The fact that the majority of people do something doesn't make it true.
Tithing is never for the new testament church that our lord Jesus Christ bought with his blood.

The comments on tithe is that majority of church people don't pay tithe.

Every believer will define his/her level of relationship with Jesus. If he is your High Priest you will know how to worship him.


Shalom!

I hope this will not take us back to the days of our polygamous great grand fathers and some of our fathers. Check their reasons for going into polygamy you will find sex to be one of the reasons. Why wait for your husband to rape you, when he is raping you do you shout for the neignbours to hear or you are enduring him, let him have what he wants, when he understands that you are not participating he will learnt that it always takes two to tangle and always seek your cooperation before such act. Comitting man to jail for marital rape will make others to be daring in extra marital relationships and women will be worse for it.

@ basorunZ

God sacrificed Jesus not to appease the devil, but as a propitation for our sins. Any Religion that prescribed the appeasement of the devil is FATALLY wrong. The devil desires human worship but this is evil. Look at the temptation of Jesus Christ, satan was just asking for worship and Jesus did not obliged him. Human worship belongs to GOD not the devil. I can feel fear from you comment, come to thing of it what good thing did most of the gods did that warrant that man should worship them, if not for fear who will worship ogun, sango etc. My brother FEAR NOT. Anything done out of such fear is wrong.

@ jagunlabi,

Mention any that does not request that satan be appeased