₦airaland Forum

Ideadoctor:
Benin kings can never be compared with Yoruba kings, Yoruba are the source of Benin royalty, which makes Yoruba kingship to be automatically superior, I hate it when arrogant Edo folks try to turns things upside down, without Yoruba civilization where would they be today?, Their royalty, arts and crafts and pantheon is from the great Yoruba civilization

men say what you know

Edeyoung:
You have little knowledge yoruba history and also that of bini, you only know the periphery of both history,

You dont know bini history on a research background, just admit to yourself you dont know and we will find books for you to read

look my brother the Yoruba people are using 1900 composed story after the fall of Benin to hunt Benin and it is very bad for me seeing it

in regard to knowing Benin history, it has been my focus almost all my life but I have told greyboy many times that arguing online is a bigger problem for me. My brother Tao11 is capitalising on the struggle Benin faced after 1897 whereby the oba of Benin( eweka11 and akenzua 11) subjected himself into a lot of things in order to retain the throne ( first the British and then the western region politics that saw awolowo changing things against the Benin kingdom)

my bro can I DM you later? have been busy since the little I have now is what am using now . I mean later or maybe tomorrow so that we can talk.

DenreleDave:
Tao11 has been wiping your Ass

keep quiet If you have nothing to say

TAO11:
Lol and Smh! It’s been a long day. Basic stuffs really have to be broken down for these folks to get it.

I have just finished the part A by showing you where I answered your question that Oduduwa is a Yoruba man from Ife.

Now, part B is to show you where I already cited the Ife account that says so.

Follow this link to page 5 where I already cited the Ife account in details. Read the while your eyes is open:

https://www.nairaland.com/6291440/benin-remain-center-west-africa/4#96807302

What is “you people” ?? Is that the name of a Chinese food?? LMAO!

Well, stop feeling inferior over nothing. I actually can’t remember mentioning anywhere that life started in Ife.

To read up on the scientific position on this specific topic, refer to the link below to another thread where I discussed it in details:

https://www.nairaland.com/6286709/ijebu-vs-jebusite/8#96733169

Well, It has already been provided to you on page 5 — even with detailed referencing.

You quoted the answer while still ranting that your request has not been provided.

See the penultimate link for the comment, and read the quotations with your eyes open this time around.

The only difficulty I see is the difficulty of making use of your eyes.

Or are you just pretending to be dumb? Be honest, I think you are!

in page 5 you said ife tradition says he is an ife man

but am asking you to bring any article where the ooni said he was originally from ife

or you can also bring any account


this one nor hard now

Newton85:
What is the Ekiokpagha treaty?

finish with oduduwa then come to this let me educate you

bonjovi787:
Why do you continue in this line ? What does the words the ooni of ife said about a fictional character (oduduwa) change in the fact oduduwa never existed ? Please elevate your thinking, all this is rubbish. Stop debating about the life of a person who never existed.

bro she said he was an ife man I only want her to bring an account where the ooni said oduduwa was an ife man

the thing is even if oduduwa does exist, different account have said oduduwa came from somewhere but she said oduduwa is from ife then let her prove it with my question.

TheLionofLasigi:
Yoruba slaves are probably doing better than you...die in envy and bitterness

am happy that they are doing well

but don't mislead people with your headline

because Yoruba is not even a top language in Brazil

TAO11:
Etrusen: Where is Oduduwa from?

Me: He is a Yoruba man from Ife.

Etrusen: Haha! You see, you didn’t answer my question.

Me: [Rolls my eyes] I did.

See the screenshot of where you quoted the answer.

Eteusen: No, sorry! That question is not my question anymore.

My question now is: Do you agree with your own answer that he is from Ife?

Etrusen (again): Oh wait! Let’s go back to my actual question which I just changed:

You didn’t write the word Y-E-S or N-O; therefore, I should have insisted that you didn’t answer my question.

Me: For the new question: Yes, I agree with my answer that he is from Ife. LMAO!

And back to your actual question: [i]In English language, the word “yes” (in this context) has exactly the same 100% meaning as the phrase “he is a Yoruba man from Ife”.

————————
It’s tough engaging a dullard. He knows, learns nothing, but says everything.

you have serve your purpose

but you can start by providing the ife account the says he was a Yoruba man


just like tollboy you people want to make it look as if life started in ife

please let's start by you providing the account or better still where the ooni of ife said oduduwa was an ife man

please I hope its not difficult

TAO11:
The attachment below is because you repeatedly have proven to be blind Bini dullard.

How any sane person would conclude that your question [“is Oduduwa an Ife man?”] is not yet answered remains a mystery to me?

Is “dullardism” a genetic Bini thing?

madam don't think am blind.

am asking you a direct question

do you agree to this account ?

nothing more, answer if he was an ife man with either yes or no

is this too hard for you ?

Newton85:
As a matter of fact, the Ogiamien family (who are the descendants of the Ogiso) in Benin are still angry that the Oba of Benin no longer wants to acknowledge the Ekiokpagha treaty (I hope I spelled it right), a rent that the Obas of Benin used to pay to the Ogiamien for allowing Yoruba foreigner Oranmiyan and his descendants to make use of the land. If truly Oduduwa was some spurious Izoduwa, or Imadoduwa, or Ekala-whatever from Benin, how come his descendants via Oranmiyan were made to pay rent to the Ogiamien for the land they occupied?

we are dealing with oduduwa origin so don't change topic but if you want to know about ogiamien, first settle that of oduduwa then we can come to ogiamien

any way this will help you

https://www.nairaland.com/6291503/evidences-shows-ogiamien-claim-original

TAO11:
No! And why does the “f” beside my moniker look somehow like “male” to you? Lol.

Are you sure everything is fine with you as regards seeing?

I’ve been noticing that your replies lately seem to be having something to do with not seeing properly.

It’s been a recurring pattern.
———————
I really hope your reply to this won’t be you usual fake “why don’t you answer me?” rant.

Otherwise, it is high time you visited an ophthalmologist already.

you are too insecure for saying that

people impersonate ,( especially Hausa and Yoruba ) so don't feel or think anything different

TAO11:
No! Are you planning to get married?
———————
I really hope your reply to this won’t be you usual fake “why don’t you answer me?” rant.

you have proven always to be insecure

have gotten my answer so relax

it is really funny that you can't answer if oduduwa was an ife man with the same YES or NO

you answer it that way because you are afraid of the unknown question that is to come.

why don't you just answer it

Samishiba:
Brazil is not a African country to speak yorubá. Brazil never adopt a African language official language because
1 - Brazil is not a African country.
2 - Brazil is not a entirely black country.
3 - yorubá is a cultural patrimony of Rio de janeiro not all Brazil
4- The only second official language in Brazil is indigenous Language
5 - Anyone speak yorubá in Brazil. Only in Afro Brazilian religion candomblé. Candomblé is only 3% of Brazil
6- Brazil don't have 80 million of yorubá. Brazil have 80 million of trirracial Brazilians. Native American, European, and African.

do you believe that high percent of Brazilians were originally slave?

the original owners of oguta are the Binis .

TAO11:
Etrusen: So, tell me Tao: (A)What is 2 + 2 ??, and (B)What is that capital of Lagos State ??

Me: (A)2 + 2 is 4, and (B)The capital of Lagos State is Ikeja. Having said that, I really want to touch on the actual relevant issue of •••

Etrusen: Why don’t you answer my questions? Please answer my questions [yet he quotes the same comment containing the answers].

Me:www.nairaland.com/attachments/12764247_ae211438cf114ce8a40cc13d10971a84_jpeg_jpega19392d9286f87690d4462b719f1beed[ROTFLMAO and asking myself] Is “selective seeing syndrome” truly a thing ?? Wonderful !!

This Bini slave-dullards must hurry-up, find a new hubby, and get a life.

In the meantime, I’d suggest you all go back to join your sand play-mates. One of them is already waiting.
www.nairaland.com/attachments/12647307_img20200916212710_jpeg67fd5262a10290889c45f9b351a68fba


You all are clearly doing a terrible job at defending the Yoruba-Oba of Benin kingdom.

cc: Balogunodua, babtoundey, DenreleDave, SaintBeehot, gomojam, scholes0, nisai, LegendHero, Newton85, macof, barbilius, Alba3, reallest, SaintBeehot

Tao11 please I want to know

are you male?



I hope this is easy?

samuk:
She thought she was coming to pour sand on Benin history,

she has always proven to be a cruel type

this was how she have bashing Benin kings by counting them as 37,38, and 40 without 39 until I corrected her brain behind it

Tao11 serve only to her gain which makes her cruel historian that work for her tribal benefits even when she is obviously wrong

though am not surprise because these are features of Afonjalism

Etinosa1234 asked her simple question how a Deji of Akure was removed from the throne but she rather choose to beat around bush than answer simple question.

she will always bring a picture titled by the Yoruba's as the gathering of yoruba obas when she don't even know the struggle of Akenzua 11 against the west and Awolowo. she will always bring the picture with even knowing about the reason for the gathering and what was discussed and all she knows is that the book says the gathering of Yoruba obas even when the oba of Benin was the only one addressed as OBA on the paper she provided


I repeat Tao11 only give half scripted story and the part the suit her argument. the Yoruba's have nothing called Yoruba kingdom if am lying then let Tao11 prove me wrong.

I wonder the thought of her ignorant likers and sharers who are blind to the truth

I can lot of decent questions people have ask Tao11 but she refuse to give a direct answer because she is insecure to what may come next

I don't argue too much online all I do is focus on my Benin work, I am Tao11 greatest nightmare on Nairaland when it comes to Benin and yorubas but am not move because a full blooded Edo man son to Udugbamen and decendant of the enogie of Ute in orhionmwon and decendant of Ogierunmwanbo N oka in Ikpo _ okha knows the history of his people


my simple advice to Tao11 is that

if she want to claim Yoruba worth, I have no problem with that but she should do it without mentioning Benin because Benin is already establish even before the foundation of ife which they claim as their origin ( although some deny the claim.)

Frankrobbn1:
I don't believe this to be true...You can actually study LLM (Master of Law) in Canada. Please check the University of Windsor, they offer this program with funding opportunity to International Students.


It will end in praise

thank you so much

tollyboy5:
Oduduwa is an anonymous hacker.
He fell from sky just like the ife people. Or better still obatala breath life into ife people after eledumare created them .
These are the folklores they don't want to admit so they won't sound foolish!
Instead they're proving random archaeological figures on how ife is very ancient.
Kuku tell us oduduwa came down from the sky with chain simple!
Like I've said this not time for myth busting. From secondary school we were thought Benin came to Lagos with warriors and the aworis who were weaker in military strength just accepted them to lord them. But someone is trying to bend history because she's awori and claims are mum is ijebu lol

I think Tao11 is driven by her likers and sharers and she is blindly following it

yoruba slaves in Brazil trying to create ownership



but anyway am happy that there is Nigerians in far Brazil

samuk:
Tao is only interested in throwing mould on the history of Benin. She shy away from questions examining Yoruba history because Yoruba history is full of myths and legends.

As simple as this your question, it's very difficult for the Yoruba to answer because there is no unified Yoruba answer to it. The answer you will often get depends on who you are speaking to at that particular moment. That is why she warned them to be careful with their replies.

Yoruba keep reversing their histories and modifying the lies in them.

I am sure the Tao11 I know will still beat around the bush should I ask her now

if there was anything called Yoruba kingdom.


Afonjalism and insecurity problem

tollyboy5:
Her history student are just illiterate. I already saw where she was coming from. But hypocrisy will not let them speak.
They're pushing the the Yoruba folklore further. Trying to say all Yoruba related tribe came from ife and obatala the creator of humans.
Thats a disaster! Instead of speaking their true illogical mind they're looking for evidence to prove human started from ile-ife.
I decide to leave them since their history is fake. I have better evidence of technology and human possibly starting from east Africa. The Egyptian history is even more than enough evidence.
But I didnt document those search then. These people went further to prove abrahamic riligion as false. I might not be riligious but I know the old testament can't be just false the way this people put want to put it. The illiterate supporting the ife myth don't think if not they'll understand where the illusionist are heading to.

The only person that was bold enough to mention it was amuja le . he said the abrahamic religion were false. But the rest hypocrite don't want to sound that way. I'm too smart for them. I will open a thread to Debunk them later in future for now , there is no time

have ask Tao simple question

where is oduduwa from ?

but she was unable to answer and ignorant likers and sharers cannot just think to ask her the same question


TAO11 only give half scripted story that suit her argument just like she did to you

Etinosa12345:
4-0

ok

TAO11:
To my Yoruba folks, I am actually saying the following with all sense of humility:

If you must engage these fearful and insecure Bini fraudsters at this point onward on this thread, please note that virtually all the silencing answers to their moronic contentions have already been provide on this same thread up to this page.

Do not be in a hurry, take your time to acquaint yourself with my comments so far (step by step from page 1) on this thread before you proceed to engage them if you must.

Notice what kind of reply and argument was provided to their dumb contentions. If this is mastered, you may never fall for their dishonest tactics and double standards.

Remember, they are very skilled with dishonesty and deceit. And it is understandable.

Cheers!

Cc: Balogunodua, babtoundey, DenreleDave, SaintBeehot, gomojam, scholes0, nisai, LegendHero, Newton85, barbilius, Alba3, reallest, SaintBeehot

you have proven to be insecure and fearful by not answering the questions ask

where is oduduwa, from is that a bad question?

and others asked


I Wonder what a non Benin / Yoruba will be thinking after observing that weakness

please I want a non Benin and Yoruba reading this to tell me if my question is bad

TAO11:
The following clarification must be made prior to delving into the details of the indigenous Ife traditional accounts on the person of Oduduwa and his roots.

Until deep into the 1900s, the general direction regarding Oduduwa’s roots was to look outside of Africa in the direction of the Middle-East — not merely “east” but Middle-East.

This attitudes originally traces back to the early 1800s writings of Sultan Bello of Sokoto who regarded the “father” of the Yoruba as a Meccan prince.

This attitude was then picked up by Rev. Samuel Johnson (via Captain Clapperton’s writings as collected from Sultan Bello) and vigorously expounded and popularized to become what is now known by historians as the Johnsonian hypothesis.

In sum then, this Middle-Eastern direction originated from far away Hausaland — not from anywhere within the boundaries of Yorubaland, nor was it collected from Ife itself.

“Fortunately, while much effort was being expended in following Johnson’s ideas about the beginnings of Yoruba history, there still existed all around us, in Ife and other parts of Yorubaland, an enormous wealth of traditions, as well as evidence in the Yoruba political system and surviving practices and rituals, about Oduduwa and his era. Ultimately, a different direction in the study of Yoruba history developed (as part of a more scientific study of African history in general) which focused on the indigenous evidence, as well as other source material, for the reconstruction of early Yoruba history. Consequent upon these efforts, we now stand able to lay aside, with respect, the Johnsonian hypothesis about the origins of Oduduwa and of all the Yoruba. All who study the history of Ife and of the Yoruba people are now generally agreed that the great political changes which began in Ife in about the tenth century were indigenous in their origin, in their unfolding and in their dramatis personae. It is on the soil of Yorubaland that Oduduwa was born and raised; it is only in that soil that his roots can be found.

The traditional accounts of the development and growth of the political troubles in Ife in Oduduwa’s time are many and complicated. ... Nevertheless, by carefully sifting through the infinite variety of traditions and versions, we can put together the basic traditional narrative that follows.*

Some small settlements had, for a long time, existed on hills beyond the immediate environs of the settlements in the Ife bowl. At some point in time, one of them moved down, staked claims to some land within the area and started to build a new settlement. Its leader was a man named Oduduwa. Before this group came, there was already an area that the old settlements generally regarded as land for strangers. It was into this area that the group now commonly represented in the traditions as the Oduduwa group moved. From the moment that this group arrived, it was unprepared to accept the claims of precedence by the older settlements; it was also not willing to have any dealings with the existing alliance of kings. All this led to the beginning of the conflicts between the Oduduwa group and some of the older settlements, and these conflict got worse over a long time.”

Reference: S. Adebanji Akintoye, “A History of the Yoruba People”, Amalion Publishing, 2010, pp. 56-57. The asterisked account is noted by the author to have also been cited in (a) Akinjogbin: The Cradle of a Race: Adediran: “The Early Beginnings of the Ife State,” pp. 77-95; and (b) Obayemi: “The Phenomenon of Oduduwa in Ife History,” pp. 62-76.


What is “east”?? What is “population” ?? What are you replying to ?? Why are you angry ?? Lol.

Again, what is “east” ?? Lol.

Again, Benin is not older than Ife, I have refuted that on page 2. This is your thread, you should at least be willing to read a lot of the post therein. Don’t be scared. Read!

Again, I am not sure how many times it has to be re-written before you would come to terms with the real-world. Now listen again:

The recent 1970s Benin idea that Oduduwa was from Benin has been debunked, time and time again by historical scholarship, as an incoherent fraud.

Cheers!

Cc: Balogunodua, babtoundey, DenreleDave, SaintBeehot, gomojam, scholes0, nisai, LegendHero, Newton85, macof, barbilius, Alba3, reallest, SaintBeehot

you can't answer simple question

you just like long story to cover yourself

I can't count about five decent questions that people have you but can't give answer because it doesn't suit your argument.

its all noted how bias you to history

TAO11:
I’d rather be a proud literate, than be you — a proud ignoramus. Lol!

Interesting! I could have sworn that your so-called “simple question” was originally as follows:

“did the benin civil war stop Benin from being independent until 1897?”

And to which I responded appropriately along the same line of independence as follows:

“Lol. None of the two civil wars stopped either of them from being independent.

Their respective independence only stopped with British take over.”

In other words, my response was in line, direct, and relevant to the question — even though the question itself was of no relevance to anything being discussed.

Now, to answer your fresh inconsequent question, the Oyo empire fell from its imperial height in circa 1835.

But did the kingdom continue independently? Yes it did (although very, very weakened compared to what it used to be, and in a different location) until British takeover towards the end of the 1800s.

Similarly, after Benin’s civil war of 1699-1721, did Benin remain at its (relatively lower to Oyo’s) imperial height prior to British take over? No!

In fact, prior to the British take over of Benin in 1897, the following quotation shows the eyewitness testimony of Mr Cyril Punch — a British merchant who travels around the Yoruba country and Benin in the late-1880s and early-1890s:

“All the rest of West Africa that I know is squalid. Squalor is just the one idea that strikes one. Benin in the old days was more than squalid. It was gruesome. What the exact influence of the place was, or rather what the cause was of the influence felt, I cannot say, but the fact remains that no one who went there in the old days came away without being impressed.

•••

As a town, Benin was inconsiderable compared with places like Ibadan, Iseyhin, Shaki, Modakeke, and Abeokuta. There was no wealth, nor was there even power, except the power of the influence of fetish, and a sense of a spirit of a long past of atrocities, which if not supernatural, were at any rate unnatural to a degree which is indescribable. I remember the return of two of Miller Brothers’ men from a visit they paid to Benin after I had been there. They arrived at Guatun one evening, and showed plainly on their faces the mental strain that their visit had been to them.”

Reference: Cyril Punch‘s Letters, c.1890; quoted in H. Ling Roth, 1903, p. vii.

Having said that, it is important that I add that the circumstances and period (two things) of the respective civil wars of Oyo and Benin are in fact universes apart.

The Oyo’s civil war was in the 1800s, while the Benin’s on the other hand was in the 1600/1700. The Oyo civil war was largely colored by religion (a most certain non-negotiable factor); while the Benin‘s civil war had no such coloration.

The Oyo civil war was closer to the period of British imperial agenda in the “Nigeria” region; the Benin civil war, on the other hand, was way over a century prior to British takeover.

A fair consideration of this background thus leads one to the clear conclusion that comparing the date of Oyo’s fall to civil war with the date of Benin’s fall to British takeover is not merely as comparing apples and oranges; it is in fact a meaningless comparison.

Cc: Balogunodua, babtoundey, DenreleDave, SaintBeehot, gomojam, scholes0, nisai, LegendHero, Newton85, macof, barbilius, Alba3, reallest, SaintBeehot

simple question oooo

abeg answer na

so that your likers and sharers can still share it

abeg wetin liverpool play self ?

TAO11:
Lol. None of the two civil wars stopped either of them from being independent.

Their respective independence only stopped with British take over.

Stop hoping to learn history through Nairaland comments. Be bold enough to face your ignorance and kill it.

Go read a book!

i really think you are proud and you are been driven by Afonjing likers and sharers

simple question



when did oyo fall?



i wan go sleep I will reply your answer at dawn


please solve the assignment above

TAO11:
Interesting! All traditional rulers said that?? Wow!

Oh, except the traditional rulers of the actual kingdom where Oduduwa reigned.

—————————
Let’s try something similar for Benin and we see how it goes:

All aboriginal families/institutions in Benin (who are independent of the present dynasty) insist that the present dynasty of Benin is of foreign origin from Ife.

How does that sound? Well, it actually sounds more legit than the one above.

OK madam give an account of the ife people saying he was an ifeman


we are not done with oduduwa because you have not proven oduduwa was an ife man

but benin history being on the east of ife always give you how he came to be but you people are always carried by population problem ( although lots claim they have nothing to do with oduduwa )

Benin is oduduwas origin no matter how you deny it because Benin is even more older than ife and is on the east wing of ife , these are my two reserve reasons

please tell me again how did oduduwa come to be ?

am waiting

TAO11:
No!

No!

No!

Don’t be scared to kill your ignorance. Read a book.

Yes, I will.

There was rebellion within Oyo rank and files. The rebels fled to Ilorin where they were granted freedom by the Yoruba secessionist leader.

The rebels converted to the Islamic faith and pledged allegiance to a Fulani preacher. The combined army of Oyo rebels, Ilorin residents, Fulani preachers, and fugitive Hausa slaves from Oyo marched out in a series of battles defending their newly found faith against the shrunk Oyo army.

Similarly, Benin also had its civil crises which similarly grounded the capital, caused Benin to be deserted, and reduced to a mere village. [I have cited the reference for this earlier on].

Like I said: Read a book. History is not to be imagined.

did the benin civil war stop Benin from being independent until 1897 ? the answer is NO


how come your claimed mighty oyo was destroy

Edeyoung:
Gregyboy got banned for no reason cowards

I would be replacing gregyboy if you dont see my comment know i got banned too unjustfuly


Etrusen
Etinosa1234
Samuk
Davidnazee

OK bro

TAO11:
Interesting!

So, after all said and done — the summary of your super-story is that:

Igodo did not really drop from heaven despite the Benin mythological account that says so.
[I already knew he didn’t. I simply brought it up to kill your hypocrisy, deceit and double standards].

Now, on the other hand, do you still insist that Oduduwa really dropped from heaven despite this being a mythological narrative — and despite the Ife account that he is an indigenous human being??

Do you still insist? Would you still be a hypocrite or normal human? Let’s find out.

madam you can never twist story for your gain

all traditional rulers in Yoruba land agreed that oduduwa was never an ife man and that he can from some where


so am asking you where he came from

you still dey say na ife man


I wonder oo

TAO11:
And that particular fraud (bolded) has been debunked again and again by historical scholarship.

Olugbo?? You mean the Ilaje king who claimed he owns Ife??Interesting!

Amazing, we must reject the claim of the Ogiamie whose seat is within Benin till date; but accept a certain Olugbo whose seat is in far away Ilaje. Wonderful!

Like I said earlier, to know about the traditions of the British monarchy — you must begin seeking such information from the Bristish Royal family, except on matters where contemporary historical scholarship debunks them.

How is this rocket science for you to grasp?

you nor fit talk where oduduwa come from tao ?


am still waiting