₦airaland Forum

[size=16pt]sigh... nl xtians are all alike. methods may differ: self righteous indignation, putting words in people's mouths, false accusations, false claims, fabrications, etc but once I see y'all congregating and patting each other on the back, I know y'all been stumped! [/size]

alexis: Again, please reference one. My bad, I didn't mean to type 77. 7 books less and 7 books more was all over the place

you typed it twice

alexis: STOP LYING ON THIS ONE BRO. The Torah and Zabur was never revealed to Mohammed....

I SWEAR YOU ARE THE SHAMELSS LIAR
where did I say the Torah and the Zabur were
revelations of the Prophet Muhammad?

proo212: Madam, thank you jare. Next time he wants to create such a thread he will create in the muslim section where we really cannot rebutt his claim else we get banned or our posts will be hidden

who are you? her sidekick?

plappville: So according to you. The Quran Jesus later died?

As for the Isaiah 53. Your dishonesty is eating you up gradually. It just prove your thread is a trash. You can continue to hold on to The fabricated Jesus of the Quran that is not The Jesus of the convent. As clearly stated in Malachi 3. I leave you with ur blindfolded heart. Peace.

the only thing you have proved is you dont really know your bible but...whatever.

alexis: Dude, when you talk about any material - you should reference it. At least the 77 books should have an online version. Something at least we can refer to. I can find the online Quran. Can you reference the 77 books. Something to verify your claim. Is that too much to ask?

ha...ha...ha...
you can find find an online Qur'an but you can't find an online catholic bible? really?
then I can't help you.

and I didn't say 77! ...that's sneaky

alexis: How did this God inform the prophet of the Torah and Zabur? History said the prophet was unlearned and an illiterate and couldn't read. How did he come about them?

same way he revealed to him the Quran

alexis: Apparently the author of the Quran doesn't know much about Jesus Christ of history...

the Qur'an is not supposed to be a biography of Jesus Christ.

alexis: Of Jesus life, death and resurrection? Yes I can.

oh I doubt that very much.

alexis: You swept it under the carpet. However, it doesn't matter to me. I have made my point.

so have I.

alexis: WOW, that is the only thing I can say. Whenever Muslims are faced with HARD FACTS; it is always the "Weak Hadith" that comes to the rescue.

oh that's because all your criticisms of Islam are always based on fabrications, weak narrations or defective reasoning

alexis: Omo, you can dispute it or ignore it. However, Shiite Muslims have also consistently alleged that portions of even the present Quran are wrong...

thats their problem.

alexis: Maybe when I quoted the Surahs from the Quran, I asked to to check wikipedia! Again, you made the claim; the burden of proof is on you.

what do you want from me, men?
I said

F00028: any lay person can figure out the bible
has been changed by just looking at the
73 books of the roman catholic bible as
against the 66 books of the protestants
and wonder: is it 7 books more or 7 books
less?

you can't verify that?
you want me send you copies??

alexis: Again, totally side-stepping the question and not providing a direct answer. I will ask you again - DO YOU CLAIM THE BIBLE WE HAVE TODAY IS CORRUPT OR NOT?

OF COURSE I THINK IT IS
and so does Jeremiah.

alexis: The TORAH and ZABUR, where did your prophet get them from?

the Prophet didn't get them. The Torah was given to Moses, the Zabur was given to David (peace be upon them). God sees it fit to inform him of the contents.

alexis: Where was the birth, life and death of Jesus recorded? Where did the author of the Quran know about Jesus?

the Author of the Quran created Jesus so of course He would know.

alexis: Nope, not mine - the Bible! Jesus died, buried and rose from the grave over 600 years before the advent of Islam. He was seen by many witnesses. I don't need Islam permission to tell me other-wise..

you cant prove that conclusively using the Bible either, alexis.

alexis: Busted? you don't say. Most people can't read Arabic, so whether the Quran written in arabic as the original text and then translated to their native language doesn't prove anything. I pointed out that two versions of your SAME Quran written in arabic, had two different words meaning two different things. So, telling us the presence of the original text provides authenticity to the Quran proves nothing.

I have already explained this you.

alexis: I see you totally ignored the section about the portion of the Quran that were never added to the "Authorized Version" of the Quran

you mean the story of the goat?
the hadith you quoted from ibn Majah is what is known as 'daif'- defective, weak.
the stonning verses was never meant to be part of the Quran because the Prophet never instructed it be written down as part of the Qur'an even when he was asked by his scribes, and Aisha had already said in a hadith that is not daif, that the verse had been abrogated.

so goat or no goat nothing was lost

proo212: If you dont agree with the tafsir of Ibn Kathir and you want to choose Al-Qurtubi or Al-Jalalayn, it still asks the question, who sent the messengers? It definitely was not Allah. It was Christ that sent the three. A prophet cannot send messengers.

right, he can't send 'rasool' (english: messenger) those are commissioned by God but he can send 'mursaloon' (english: messengers)

and if you read verse 16 these say "Our Lord knows we have been sent"

proo212: You said Allah did not reveal their names or town because its not important. If its not important, why was the verse revealed?

there are lessons to be drawn from the whole story if you read it to the end.

plappville: Lo! God said: "O Jesus! Verily, I shall cause thee to die, and shall exalt thee unto Me, and cleanse thee of [the presence of] those who are bent on denying the truth; and I shall place those who follow thee [far] above those who are bent on denying the truth, unto the Day of Resurrection. In the end, unto Me you all must return, and I shall judge between you with regard to all on which you were wont to differ.

You have been avoiding this so Allah did not fulfilled this?

you find its fulfillment in the hadith you quoted from the sunan of Abu Dawud above.

plappville: Muhammad denies The messiah' claims....He fits the false prophet. Look st you. Denying that Jesus did not fulfilled the messiah prophecy....

look madam plappville, there are about 16 messianic prophesies in the ot. find another one that fits Jesus.
forget dat Isaiah 53 cos dat one no go ever fit Jesus Christ unless you rewrite am.

plappville: Stop saying that Jesus called the goddesses at the cross. You people claimed He didn't die, so how can you claim he called Allah on a cross? ...

Alah is the aramaic word for God (Arabic: Allah) and You say he called out to God before he was killed on the cross. so since you say Allah/Alah is a false deity, well.....

.

proo212: 2 questions regarding this Surah 36:14 verse is who sent these messengers?

at best they are emissaries of Jesus Christ and not messengers of Allah.

a direct messenger of Allah is called specially, 'Rasool' but here they are called 'mursaloon'. so none of them is rasool as corroborated by hadith you quoted, there is no rasool in between Jesus and Muhammad, peace be upon them.

...and paul, the self appointed 13th disciple is no "mursaloon".

@proo212 ibn Kathir was presenting the view of al Jaba’i just like he reported the view of ibn Ishaq who doesnt mention any bulus and neither does Qurtubi you mentioned.

the fact of the matter is God didn't reveal their names or named the city and neither did His Prophet because it's not important.

plappville: Where what? why are you delibrately ignoring the truth? I have already posted this and you are asking me where?..

why are you deliberately over stretching it? we have gone over this already. no way Isaiah 53 is talking about the Jesus the son of Mary (peace be upon them) unless you use your fertile imagination like you did a few posts ago.

plappville: You are suggesting that thesame scrolls that Jesus used were corrupt? I ASKED YOU,Isn't this denying the old prophets? you said no but...

I am not suggesting anything, Jeremiah is saying it quite openly:
"How is it that you say, We are wise and the law of the Lord is with us? But see, the false pen of the scribes has made it false." Jer. 8:8

plappville: DID I SAY HE HASN'T OTHER SONS?

Then Jesus being the "son of God is not that special especially when you look at the son of God, Adam.

Jesus was made to be in the womb of a young jewish girl, Mary 2000 years ago. in Adam's case there wasn't even a womb to carry him to term.

plappville: [size=14pt]1 John 2:22 Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist--he denies the Father and the Son.[/size]
Muhammed denies this, so He is one!

You really should stop reading about the Quran and actually read the Quran if you want to keep attempting to use it against Muslims.
God's last revelation states quite clearly Jesus is the Christ! Quran 4:171
if you are looking for people who deny Jesus is the Christ, the look to every living jew alive today.

and when you say Allah is just a moon god then Jesus was calling to a false god on the cross because

F00028: the Aramaic word for God is "Alah" according to the Lexicon offered at http: www.peshitta.org/ .

image: W.E. Vine, Merrill F. Unger, William White Jr., Vine's Complete Exposition Dictionary , Thomas Nelson Publishers, Nashville, TN, 1996

proo212: But Allah said in Surah 36:14 that Paul was a messenger of Allah. Do you now disagree with Allah or what?

Surah 36:14 Sahih International
When We sent to them two but they denied them, so We strengthened them with a third, and they said, "Indeed, we are messengers to you."

36:14 When We (first) sent to them two apostles, they rejected them: But We strengthened them with a third: they said, "Truly, we have been sent on a mission to you."

Can you see that? Allah strengthened that with Paul. This means Paul is an apostle of Allah. If Paul is an apostle of Allah, what beef do you have with him?

paul's name or anyone else's is not mentioned. how do you figure its him?

alexis: It is your claim, not mine. You tell us since you have "both" books with you

which of two books have you never seen or can't you get your hands on?

"Christian Bibles range from the sixty-six
books of the Protestant canon to the
eighty-one books of the Ethiopian
Orthodox Church canon..."
feel free to visit the fountain of all human knowledge for the rest. yes, wikipedia!

alexis: So, you are claiming that the Bible is not corrupt

so, that's how your mind works?

alexis: Hahahaha, your ignorance or sheer determination to refute history and obvious proof is interesting. I will give you two Surahs from the Quran that quoted the Bible word for word...

Hahahaha, your ignorance or sheer determination to stretch the obvious is interesting.

Surah 5:45 confirms to the Prophet Muhammad a law God had already given specifically to the Prophet Moses in the T O R A H not the "Bible".

Surah 21:105 relates to him a piece of scripture revealed to the Prophet David specifically contained in the Z A B U R (eng., Psalms) not the "Bible".

the "Bible" is collection of books written over centuries by many different authors some of which are anonymous

alexis: Do you want Surah's from your Quran? Here is one for you

Surah 3:55 Behold! Allah said: "O Jesus! I will take thee and raise thee to Myself and clear thee of those who blaspheme; I will make those who follow thee superior to those who reject faith, to the Day of Resurrection: Then shall ye all return unto me, and I will judge between you of the matters wherein ye dispute.

Here is another one

Surah 21:91 And (remember) her who guarded her chastity: We breathed into her of Our spirit, and We made her and her son a sign for all peoples.

I dont see "Bible" anywhere.
remember, this was your claim:
alexis: The Quran itself testifies that
the Bible is the Word of God.

alexis: Your own Quran confirms Jesus' virgin birth...

of course

alexis: and that He was the Word of God...

no doubt

alexis: and the Spirit of God...

yes and the same Spirit was breathed into Adam- Qur'an 15:29, Qur'an 32:9

alexis: who put on the flesh of man.

those are your own words

alexis: Please read them carefully.

you read them carefully if want to keep using them!

alexis: My arabic background has nothing to do with the differences between the arabic words qutila and qatala..

hey, you tried to front, got busted- live with it.

alexis: You claimed the Bible was corrupt.

is it seven books more or seven books less?

alexis: Muslims say it all the time, the ORIGINAL Bible is lost and what we have now is not the original. So, I am asking, if you know where the original is why not tell us.

then talk to them. i didn't say any thing about any "ORIGINAL" Bible.

alexis: Your Quran has referenced and quoted the Bible on several occasions.

not true. the Qur'an doesn't quote any "Bible".

alexis: I wonder how a book (the Quran) that was created before the universe is able to quote a book (the Bible) that was compiled 300 years ago. Makes me wonder how UNIQUE the Quran is.

the Quran is not a creation.

alexis: The Quran itself testifies that the Bible is the Word of God..

where?!?

alexis: Your prophet commended the Bible in his days (Surah 5:69; 10:94). Maybe you should ask him which Bible he used because you are of the opinion the one we have is corrupted

those verses dont say anything about any "Bible". in fact 5:69 doesnt mention any scripture at all.

don't you even cross check stuff before you copy and post it?

alexis: I never claimed any credit. I stated that don't think we are ignorant that there are differences in the Quran.

you threw in " I have some arabic background" and then went on about qutila, qatala. it was easily infered.

alexis: Your God, not mine.

suit yourself.

alexis: You need some history on your own religion. At the time of Mohammad's death, a complete collection of the suras did not exist....

false again! a complete collection of the surahs did exist. those reciters you mentioned were actually 'huffaz', people who had committed the entire Qur'an to memory-chapter and verse.

I already know my history.

alexis: If you think it's only styles/dialects, why not let's look at it together. I have some arabic background. We all know, you claim the Bible is corrupt; that doesn't move us. Yet not one Muslim in the whole world can tell us where the original Bible they refer to is...

what original bible?
you didn’t compile the bible until about 300 years after Jesus Christ was gone. don’t you know your history?

any lay person can figure out the bible has been changed by just looking at the 73 books of the roman catholic bible as against the 66 books of the protestants and wonder: is it 7 books more or 7 books less?

alexis: Let me give you a typical example. Surah 3:146, Imam Hafs version says - And many a prophet fought (qatala) ... 3.146. Imam Warsh version says - And many a prophet was killed (qutila) ... 3.146. There are different vowels in these words. This changes the meaning from the active to the passive. As if a prophet fought is the same thing as a prophet killed. The are numerous other diacritical and vowel differences that CHANGES the meaning of some Surahs.

really? your background in arabic enabled you to come up with that? because i know a certain website that would be offended by you claiming their credit.

anyway,many a Prophet did fight and many a prophet was killed.

God’s last Prophet stated “this Quran has been revealed in seven different ways so recite it in the way easiest for you”.

the seven styles (ahruf-but you already know that, right?) were taught by the Prophet to the people. so even when copies of the Quran were made by the caliph Uthman according one style (harf) it was without the vowel points so other styles could be accommodated.

this is not something you just discovered.

plappville: The prophets did said, He will die for our sins,

where please?

plappville: Satying that Jesus did not match these prophecies is either saying Jesus is false or that the prophecies failed.

or they were talking about someone else (e.g Isaiah 53),or it doesn't mean what you think it means, or that's not what the Prophets actually said. remember Jeremiah 8:8?

plappville: He was prophecied to be the Son of God by prophets. You have nothing to say about this.

God has other sons in your bible
ex 4:22, jer 31:9, ps 2:7

plappville: Jesus existed before He came to earth.

so did Jeremiah. read jer 1:5

alexis: What version should I quote? The Hafs (used mainly in the muslim world in general)or the Warsh (Used in Algeria, Morocco, parts of Tunisia, West Africa and partly in Sudan) versions of the Qur'an...

don't make me laugh. that's something you tell the ignorant to make them think you're on to something.

the Qur'an is essentially a recital and has different reading styles/dialects. and you can find those readings in printed form but that's where it stops.

the Quran is not like your bible. where you find one has six whole books more than others, some throw out verses that others include. those are versions.

they are not merely different translations or variant readings. your bible's case is much more serious than that.

alexis: I am asking you to verify your claim. Is that too much to ask?

cut to the chase! if there's something in particular on your mind just say it and lets be done with it.

alexis: Your proof?

open a translation of the Qur'an. you'll find the original arabic and the english translation
side by side or above and below.

alexis: Perhaps, can you clarify what you are talking about?

if you have read the op and follow ups and you still don't get it then there is no point.

plappville: Did you accept the OT's I presented? yes or no?

the Prophets of old prophesied the coming of the Messiah but you must have also noticed those same Prophets didn't preach that we worship him, or that he was part of a trinity, or that he was coming to die for the sins of mankind. or did they?

plappville: So You are saying these prophets have lied or not accurate...

God forbid bad thing! me, say Prophets of old lied?!!

plappville: Ok, if you claim thier prophecies was not for Jesus, then you have to provide who these prophecies fits detail by detail just like i did for Jesus.

e.g Isaiah 53 clearly doesnt fit Jesus Christ.

and how is that my job? if today you are accused of a crime and your lawyer proves the finger prints and description of the suspect doesn't match you, is it suddenly his responsiblity to produce the actual perpetrator?

plappville: You are not wrong at all. But i want you to know that, there are many names given to Jesus using the phrase “He shall be called,” both in the OT and NT.
This was a common way of saying that people would refer to Him in these various ways.
Isaiah prophesied of the Messiah, “His name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace” (Isaiah 9:6).

was Jesus Christ referred to as the The Mighty God, The Everlasting Father?
because even your nt Jesus Christ makes it very clear he's not The Father:
jhn 14:28,
jhn 8:28,
mt 19:16 and the like

alexis: Neither did Mohammed speak English but we have an English Quran.

yes, but you have the original words in the original language side by side to compare with any (mis)translation.

alexis: I am still trying to figure out what F00028 is talking about?

then you spoke too soon.

[quote author=inspiredbyGOD:.]Also, I would incite a nuclear war that would be so catastrophic, the population of the whole world would dwindle into non-existence. The survivors would remember my name for ages to come, my name would be used to strike terror into the hearts of little children and adults alike.

Pheeew, thanks be to God that I am not an atheist.[/quote]

you are now jumping o.t - n.t

plappville: Isaiah 9:6
Isaiah 11:2
Isaiah 16:5
Haggai 2:9

these can fit anybody.

plappville: [color=#990000]Matthew 1:23 "The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel"--which means, "God with us."

you can correct me if I am wrong but no one, at anytime ever called Jesus 'Immanuel'.

plappville: No one is blaming them, they rejecting Jesus is a fulfillment of the prophecy. The name is not the LCM here, the discriptions of His kind are so accurate.

only when you stretch it like you did up there

plappville: Isa 53:1-12 Who hath believed our report?
certainly not the Jews... yet
and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?
The ARM OF GOD 'Jesus' is revealed to those believing him.
JESUS AS THE ARM OF GOD Proof
2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form
nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.
The Jews rejected Jesus as not fitting their expected hopes for a messiah, Jesus came to die for our sins.
He is despised and rejected of men;
Jews rejected Jesus
a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief:
The lame, poor, thieves, prostitutes, etc... accepted him
and we hid as it were our faces from him;
The Pharisees and Priests didn't want to associate with him due to the people he helped and due to His family poor background.
he was despised, and we esteemed him not.
And most Jews still don't see Jesus for who he is.
4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken,
smitten of God, and afflicted. 5 But he was wounded for our transgressions,
Jesus was heavily beaten, whipped, and died for our sins
he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
The shroud shows some 140 stripes {scourging} on his body
6 All we like sheep have gone astray;
Jesus likened his followers to sheep that occasionally get lost, needing a good shepherd to come find them
we have turned every one to his own way;
Sheep off getting lost
and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
(Again, Jesus died for the sins of the world, you and me.
7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted,
What the Romans in power and the Jews did to him prior to him dying
yet he opened not his mouth:
Jesus did not defend himself against his accusers
he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter,
Jesus was also said to be the replacement for the sacrificial lamb used to pay for sins
and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
Again, Jesus would not defend himself and allowed them to kill him
8 He was taken from prison and from judgment:
It's recorded history, Jesus was taken and judged
and who shall declare his generation?
His followers declare who Jesus is
for he was cut off out of the land of the living:
Jesus died
for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
Lambs were and are sacrificed for sins, but Jesus has paid that price for all who accept his dying for our sins.
9 And he made his grave with the wicked,
Crucified next to two thieves
and with the rich in his death;
Jesus was buried by Joseph of Aramathea, a rich man, in a tomb originally made for Joseph of Aramathea.
because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.
Again, Jesus did not defend himself or lie about why he was there, they just couldn't believe him.
10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him;
Jesus is a RETURN sacrifice that matches Abraham's offer of love to God. Here God is offering his love to us.
It's an extreme amount of love to follow through with it and it made God happy to offer such and that Jesus would do it.
he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin,
Again, Jesus died for our sins.
he shall see his seed,
Jesus himself said the "seed" are the children of God,also known initially as apostles and disciples.
he shall prolong his days, NOTE: Luke 24:39-40 Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have." 40 When he had said this, he showed them his hands and feet.
Jesus raised from the dead, He lives
and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
Again, God was happy to send HIS HAND, Jesus to die for our sins. Jesus himself gave a verse set{John 10:28-30} that plainly shows Jesus
ADMITTING he's AT LEAST God's HAND.
11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall
my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
Again, God saw Jesus do what he had set up, that Jesus would die for the sins of the world.
12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong;
Jesus said God gives followers into Jesus's hand, Jesus also said he will forgive sins for those who believe him
and also that he would divide those who believe from those who don't believe
because he hath poured out his soul unto death:
Jesus died, but later will divide the spoil with the strong
and he was numbered with the transgressors;
One of his apostles cut off the ear of the servant of the high priest when they came to arrest Jesus.
Jesus then healed the ear of the servant. Prior to that time Jesus always told his apostles to constantly
forgive, turn the other cheek, and give others as they ask. Jesus healing the servant's ear and telling the
apostle to put the sword away canceled that same evening's command to take a sword with them. It shows itwas not a sword of defense.
He even said the taking of the sword that night was to fulfill the prophecy {this very one}.
and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
Jesus Christ Jesus admitted he was sent to die for the sins of the world by just prior to allowing himself to be killed
he said:Matt 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
Further confirmation that Jesus would die for OTHERS:Mark 10:45 For the Son of man came not to be ministered unto,
but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

So my broda in ADAM AND EVE, all this is fairly EASY to see once you honestly BELIEVE the New
Testament. Isaiah 53 is a PROPHECY about Jesus, written 750 years PRIOR to Jesus showing up.

God made it all, Jesus died for our sins. ISLAM missed/got it all wrong!!

are you for real, plappville?

plappville: Yes i have read it, and when you use the NT with it, you will see how perfectly this prophecy was fulfilled.
Its a prediction given by God, and written BEFORE Jesus showed up. this prophecy was written to the Jews by a
Jewish prophet named Isaiah about a later to be born Jew named Jesus. Oddly enough, the Jews hold the prophecy as being the truth,
but like the prophecy says they don't believe the person it's about...

you cant really blame them because for one thing the prophesy didn't say his name will be Jesus and the description doesn't fit him.

plappville: This same quran says the opposite that Jesus Himself said He died.
19:33 Maryam "So peace is on me the day I(Jesus) was born, the day that I die, and the day that I shall be raised up to life (again)"! (Islam Isa is speaking)

come one plappville!
he didn't say, he died! he said, "the day that I die..."
dont you read the stuff you copy and paste?

Jesus Christ being that close to God knows better than anybody "every soul shall taste death" (Quran 21:35) one day, one day

besides, there's another verse like it about John the Baptist:
"So peace on him the day he was born, the day that he dies, and the day that he will be raised up to life" -Quran 19:15

does that say to you John the Baptist died on the cross too?

plappville: Isaiah 53 That Predicted Jesus coming, His dieing for our sins, How he will be rejected etc etc which was fulfilled by Jesus was completely rejected by Muhammed. This made Him a false prophet.

really now? have you actually ever read Isaiah 53?

Isaiah 53 speaks of a man who was despised by mankind, had “no form nor comeliness”; who was wounded for our transgressions; who said not a word; and was buried with the wicked and the rich… etc

But…according to your bible Jesus had followers who loved him (to this day there are 1.5 billion of us muslims who love him not despise him);

-you claim Jesus was not merely wounded for our transgressions he was killed;

-Jesus did speak-he spoke to the jews, to pilate and on the cross; and

- he not was buried and even f you can call it that, he was alone!

Isaiah 53 also says God will prolong his life and he will live to even see his offspring:

Did the biblical Jesus have a wife (s) and kids?

proo212: I think Paul must have said some things that shook the core of Islam...

no, paul said a lot things that shook the core of the christianity of Jesus Christ.

"The writings of Paul have been a danger and a hidden rock. the causes of the principal defects of Christian theology."
- writes theologian Ernest Renan, in his book Saint Paul.


Paul made Christianity the religion of Paul, not of Christ Paul threw the Christianity of Christ away, completely turning it upside down. making it just the opposite of the original proclamation of Christ"
- Soren Kierkegaard, The Journals.

Albert Schweitzer, winner of the 1952 Nobel Peace Prize, has been called "one of the greatest Christians of his time." He was a philosopher, physician, musician, clergyman, missionary, and theologian. In his The Quest for the Historical Jesus and his Mysticism of Paul he writes: "Paul....did not desire to know Christ....Paul shows us with what complete indifference the earthly life of Jesus was regarded....What is the significance for our faith and for our religious life, the fact that the Gospel of Paul is different from the Gospel of Jesus?....The attitude which Paul himself takes up towards the Gospel of Jesus is that he does not repeat it in the words of Jesus, and does not appeal to its authority....The fateful thing is that the Greek, the Catholic, and the Protestant theologies all contain the Gospel of Paul in a form which does not continue the Gospel of Jesus, but displaces it."   

@plappvile
I am not sure why you felt it necessary to quote all the above verses because I did not say paul invented Jesus neither did I say he was not the messiah.

pauline Christianity:
"In the teachings of Christ, religion is completely present tense: Jesus is the prototype and our task is to imitate him, become a disciple. But then through Paul came a basic alteration. Paul draws attention away from imitating Christ and fixes attention on the death of Christ The Atoner. What Martin Luther. in his reformation, failed to realize is that even before Catholicism, Christianity had become degenerate at the hands of Paul. Paul made Christianity the religion of Paul, not of Christ Paul threw the Christianity of Christ away, completely turning it upside down. making it just the opposite of the original proclamation of Christ"
- theologian Soren Kierkegaard, writing in The Journals.

plappville: And your thread is very muslim of you...you trust your faith, we don't disturb you. But you will not allow us to be at peace. The accuracy of the bible on how Islam will twist everything and deceive many is so so plain. Leave the corrupted bible alone and follow only your Quran/Hadith....shameful religion that needs to back itself up with s book he already condemn..

we couldn't care less about your pauline christianity or its collection of anonymous books turning a Prophet of God into something he never claimed he was!

but Jesus the Christ, the son of Mary, servant of the Ever Living God is our Prophet.

plaetton: Religion is about the belief in god or gods.

What is the central theme of atheism?

well like she said, it's unorganized.