₦airaland Forum

durodee:
Just dont by mistake bypass Nepa meters o! that na crime,

If I understand you present predicament well , I think what you should do is trace what is going on rather than meddle close to the meter. I suspect the cause of your challenge is the automatic neutral wire selection by your inverter. I am presently having the same challenge in my house with ONE inverter out of the TWO connected. I have been using both for long and did not change any connection, but suddenly one of the inverters started backfeeding to the grid with very high consumption WHEN NEPA IS OFF AND I SWITCH THE INVERTER ON. The only way to STOP this excessive discharge is to disconnect from the grid by putting my changover to neutral OR use it in BYPASS mode with the ON switch off.

If you have one, try and put an automatic change switch before the AC input to your inverter and see. AC supply to your inverter will only now occur if there is GRID and prevents a backflow

Finally someone who has walked the same path I am walking.

I have a manual changeover switch, thanks for the suggestion.

I have always felt that it is a grid backflow issue

GloriousGbola:
It may be also some cunny cunny wiring to bypass nepa meter or at least to run less than one phase on the nepa meter.

Valid point, my neighbor has never recharged the meter since I came unless she is using the wireless module to recharge.


When I saw a house metered the other day, the official asked the houseowner for N20,000.00 to make the meter read slowly.

I am now more emboldened to tear apart those boards and really check what is going on behind them

My neighbor is asking that |I supply them power from my alternative to AEDC.

Please recommend a cheap but functional meter that I can use to ensure that I can monitor their consumption if anyone has been through this situation before.

Do we have it in the country or will I have to import?

favouredbymercy:
The issue is already narrowed, as I told you Bro. You are tapping the AC in from the wrong point.

Will have to tear apart the board housing the fuses/breakers and changeover since those wires are all 1 color which makes it difficult to who what wire is which from just looking.

I will also need to be this because of a less than intuitive arrangement of wires, in my former residence, from just looking one would know these are the incoming wires and these are the outgoing wires.

It doesn't help that we also have 2 meters which sort of complicates the wiring setup.

Will report back when I do

gbadexy:
I think shades of grey are more common.
Below is a link to my insta page for some colors I've supplied clients.


https://www.instagram.com/regalpaint_?igsh=MWlzcDk5dnA0ZHJ2bQ==

Thanks.

Lots of greys these days I missed that

Gbadexy why do Nigerians seem to paint nearly every house white, off-white and cream?

Tell me about the more common colors your clients purchase and the less common colors.

I am trying to find out why because we are having an argument here and I would like the input of a professional and manufacturer

SolomonGrundy:
Exactly as you said. I couldn't find any from trusted brand. I later settled for growatt.

Apparently, the world has moved on, or more importantly we are more power hungry than we thought.

Apparently, in the future 3.0kW will be the new baseline model

Trippledots:
I think you should reset the inverter if it has that feature. Or just take it to default mode.

Maybe some settings are fighting each other.

Additional notes on the issue:

Since turning off the distribution board (DB) didn't work, I'm trying a new approach to figure out this constant power draw.

When my inverter is running the house, I'm seeing a continuous load of about 2kW. This happens even when the AC input is plugged in but there's no grid power.

The same issue occurs when there is mains power, and it's simultaneously charging the inverter and the inverter is powering the house.

However, the load drops dramatically—from 1.6-2.0kW down to around 0.20kW—if the mains power is charging the inverter but the inverter isn't supplying power to the house.

My next step is to disconnect everything at the source, not just at the DB. I'll then connect each device or circuit back one by one while monitoring the inverter's power draw until I identify the source of the problem.

I'm pretty sure this is a wiring, circuit, or device issue, and I'll report back once I've isolated it.

One more thing:

Breaking the AC IN connection to the inverter allows it to successfully run overnight, indicating that the issue isn't with the inverter's ability to operate on battery power. Instead, the problem likely stems from the AC IN circuit itself, or the inverter's interaction with the AC grid.

This suggests a potential issue with one of the following:

AC IN power source

AC IN wiring or breaker

Inverter's AC transfer switch

topsy23:
It means you have all the equipment in the house connected to Inverter. Hmmm.... Also the inverter must be a higher rating equipment since you have the whole house connected to it.
Again, I need confirm the below items and their Capacities

How many AC do you have in the house? What are their capacities? Are they conventional type or inverter type?

What is the eating of your pumping machine.
How many fridge or freezer do you have?

Rather than listing all the items, I'm trying a different approach since disconnecting the distribution board (DB) didn't work.

There's a constant load of almost 2kW on the inverter when it's powering the house, even when the AC input used to charge the inverter is connected but there's no mains power.

This situation persists even when there is mains power, and it's both charging the inverter and the inverter is powering the house.

However, if there's mains power charging the inverter and the inverter is not powering the house, that is, the knife switch is in the mains supply position, the inverter load drops significantly from 1.6-2.0kW to around 0.20kW.

I'm now going to use a new method: I'll disconnect everything at the source—not at the DB—and then reconnect them one by one. I'll monitor the inverter's power draw until I find the problem device or circuit.

I'll provide an update later. This seems to be a wiring issue, a problematic circuit, or a faulty device on one of the circuits, and I believe this isolation method will help me find it.

topsy23:
According to what you explained up there, if you off the outgoing breaker from inverter the issue will stop.

Can you answer the following questions?
- How many distribution board do you have in the house?
- Where is the outgoing cable from inverter feeding?
- What are the loads on the inverter?

If I get the above answers correctly we will get where the problem is coming from.

- How many distribution board do you have in the house? 2 distribution boards (main house and self-con)

- Where is the outgoing cable from inverter feeding? Outgoing cable from the inverter goes into the 3-phase 4 pole changeover knife switch, up is AEDC and down is the inverter

- What are the loads on the inverter? all the loads of the house. Which are not turned on except as needed, because like right now the inverter does not even read up to 25% power draw

Additional points, the house has an earthing problem, every metallic device shocks, and we were supposed to install a new earth today but the electrical contractor has rescheduled to tomorrow due to health issues.

topsy23:
@ bolded you need to explain further not really clear with what you are trying to explain. When there is no light definitely the inverter will start discharging to carry the connected loads. BUT if the inverter is charging when there is no power to the building through either GEN or PHCN that means there is an issue with whole wiring system.

I re-read your comments,

I am addressing the bolded

It doesn't charge but it starts doing a very abnormal discharge even with my loads disconnected until the breakers I discussed above are turned off

topsy23:
@ bolded you need to explain further not really clear with what you are trying to explain. When there is no light definitely the inverter will start discharging to carry the connected loads. BUT if the inverter is charging when there is no power to the building through either GEN or PHCN that means there is an issue with whole wiring system.

I have a Longi 3 phase meter,

My neighbor uses a Longi 1 phase Meter.

The Meter has L1 in and L1 out.
L2 in and L2 out.
L3 in and L2 out.
Neutral in and out

I tapped the neutral from the Neutral Out.

I tapped the Live from the common Live Out.

One has to be careful where to tap the Live and Neutral to charge the inverter so that the disco does not think one is trying to play a fast one and not pay bills, so I tapped the Live and Neutral after it exits the meter but before it enters the DB (house) and not before it enters the meter.

In my previous residence I also tapped it at the RCCB just before the power goes into the DB, but the inverter was indoors close to the DB

In my current residence, I am tapping the power closer to the meter just after it exits the meter and the inverter is now outside next to the meter.

I am wondering if there is a house wiring problem because this situation only stops if I shut off the circuit breaker that is part of the meter or if I shut off the circuit breaker that I installed between the AC in and the inverter.


Thanks.

favouredbymercy:
You are tapping your inverter AC input from the wrong place. You are tapping it from the point that goes to the house, rather from the point that comes to the house. So when on battery mode, the AC input is still from your inverter.

Your explanation makes the most sense.

I have a Longi 3 phase meter,

My neighbor uses a Longi 1 phase Meter.

The Meter has L1 in and L1 out.
L2 in and L2 out.
L3 in and L2 out.
Neutral in and out

I tapped the neutral from the Neutral out.

I tapped the Live from the common Live Out.

I guess I need to change where the Live to AC in comes and revert.

Thanks.

I relocated and then I noticed my inverter no longer could hold a charge overnight.

After some troubleshooting

This is what we found:

Whenever the power trips off, the power from the inverter seems to be coming back to the inverter to charge the inverter causing the inverter to run constantly at 50% load and the batteries to self discharge (that is without any applied load from my end) in less than 3 hours.

Even after all appliances are switched off at the db level the 50% load remains.

Has anyone ever experienced this?

Initial thoughts was someone is tapping the electricity illegally but our investigation has eliminated this as a possible reason.

Will continue troubleshooting tomorrow

I and my technicians are troubleshooting an issue in which whenever the power trips off, the power from the inverter seems to be coming back to the inverter to charge the inverter causing the inverter to run constantly at 50% load.

It does not help that they decided to use one color of wire to wire the entire house.

I am not saying that that is the reason why we have this issue though.

I have also decided to set up a brand new earthing installation since the earth I met seems to have issues.

Hopefully we get a hang over it.

The only way to stop that problem is to switch of the AC IN breaker between the mains and the inverter.

I even went to the NERC website to take a look at the codes and regulations found these

bixton:
By the grace of God, I am a teacher of the gospel of Christ Jesus. In Scripture teaching, those who are knowledgeable with the KJV/NKJV and type of English usage and they rely on the Spirit of God for understanding will have come to know that one can't completely rely on the other translations. Though its good for easy learning but not good in extracting the intended as it should be from the KJV.
I can tell you for free that there are many verses in some translations that say completely different from what it is. It leads one to heresy most times if not careful.



I will leave it at that.
I think @ Topsy will do some justice to this issue when he has the time to spare.


I am a very practical person.
Some months ago, while on a job, a discussion with colleagues made me to use AI.
What was the question......"Does alcohol drinking causes dehydration?

It was an obvious , Yes.
Because we were seated at a bar and they were drinking. I then asked them, how come if it causes dehydration I don't see lots of people having bottle water on their tables when drinking. They were even drinking beers.

I dont know anyone who while drinking alcohol gets dehydrated and requests for bottle water to quench their thirst.....

This is a practical class not for AIs.

On the core issue we share these same point of view.

The differences are immaterial as they are purely semantics and pedantics

GloriousGbola:
A lot of electricians will simply use your site as training for their boys.

Their boys learn by rote and have no idea of standards


This is why you need a person on site taking pictures and posting in real time so you can nip any nonsense in the bud

The problem is a mentality of it is sha working so stop making drama.

These same electricans will run wire in the ground in wall conduit.

So the companies respond to the market and the market drives demand and supply,

An informed clientele will demand all the colors and the companies will not run at a loss providing all colors.

No wonder everyone had just 1 color of 6mm the other day in the market

topsy23:
You are right, just that I don't have strength to type now, I would have love to it down for everybody to understand. Cable size either RED, YELLOW, BLUE, BLACK or GREEN have the same price so far they are from the same manufacturer's. The only problem we have with manufacturers is that some cables (single core cables) are special request. Like BLUE, YELLOW. You must place order for certain quantity before they can produce it. Reason why some electrician use red colour for both BLUE and YELLOW phase in 3-phase connection.

Likely because of the predominance of the wrong practices.

bixton:
No it doesn't help.
I deliberately stick to the definition i brought up from AI but you insisted to add more.

Please don't tell me what AI said because it can't think for itself.

Let's also stick to the main discuss and not expand it. We are talking about electrical wiring in buildings for lights and sockets using same color code which is on obviously not good because using same color makes identification hard...... That I agree. But like I said you'll need to explain the word "cutting corners by yourself and not include AIs input. Think through by yourself.

Does using same color for both terminals( +/ -) reduce the quality? Note....the cables are of same size and high end value. Does it also affect the quality of electricity coming into the building?

Is there any cost saving in such approach?
I've never heard that different colors have different prices for same size!!!!

Are you sure there's actually a time saving to such approach to it? Please think it through assuming that the individual did not even mark the ends of the cable to differentiate + and - !!!?

This was the prompt, what was your own prompt?

Define cutting corners

In my line of business, we learn a lot by comparing definitions.

I am also aware that people who study scripture benefit a lot by comparing the same verse in different translations.

Do you realise that not considering more than 1 definition you leave yourself at risk of being considered close minded?

If there is something wrong about the definition from my own AI, critique it and point it out.

Let everyone learn.



I'm lazy. I cheat once more by answering your first question with AI.

Using the same color for both terminals (positive and negative) does not reduce the quality of the electricity itself, assuming the cables are of the same size and value. The electrical current will flow just as it should, with no degradation in power or signal. However, it is an extremely dangerous and non-compliant practice that creates severe risks for anyone working on the electrical system.

While using a single color for both terminals doesn't affect the physical quality of the electricity, it creates an extreme safety hazard and is a practice of "cutting corners" that no professional would ever endorse.

twinskenny:
25mm recline or 16mm armored

From the pole to the house am not sure there is a lesser gauge

I deeply appreciate your input

GloriousGbola:
cable to my gen is 6mm.

if you are SURE you will not upgrade do 6mm, if you are not absolutely sure, 10mm

i dont use any ac though

I use 6mm from my inverter to the db.

Thanks very much

Please what is the correct wire gauge to run between the pole and the house if the house uses a single phase and will not run appliances higher than 1 AC and 1 deep freezer? is it 6mm or 10mm or 16mm?

So I can advise my friend whose house has just been metered?

Thanks

bixton:
*Cutting Corners:*

"Cutting corners" is an idiomatic expression that means to:

1. *Take shortcuts*: Find ways to do something more quickly or cheaply, often by omitting or reducing certain steps or procedures.
2. *Reduce quality*: Compromise on quality, safety, or standards to achieve a goal or meet a deadline.


Like I said we choose words wrongly.

The above is the Meta AI definition of cutting corners.
Let's take the bolded, side by side with your response from AI and see how good AI is in thinking for itself.

Take the bolded apart with respect to the main subject topic of single color electrical works in buildings.

Let's all learn together.
Thanks.

Here is the definition and additional notes on cutting corners from my own AI:

"Cutting corners" is an idiom that describes the act of doing something in the easiest, cheapest, or fastest way possible, often by neglecting proper procedures, standards, or quality. This shortcut typically results in a lower-quality outcome, potential risks, or future problems.

Here's a breakdown of what it implies:

Sacrificing Quality: The primary characteristic of cutting corners is a reduction in the quality of the work or product. This is done to save resources.

Saving Time, Money, or Effort: The motivation behind cutting corners is usually to complete a task more quickly, with less expense, or with less physical or mental effort.

Ignoring Rules or Standards: It often involves deviating from established guidelines, best practices, or safety regulations.

Potential for Negative Consequences: While the immediate goal is efficiency, cutting corners often leads to negative repercussions such as:

Poor performance: The final product or service may not function as intended.

Safety hazards: In critical areas like construction or electrical work, this can lead to dangerous situations.

Durability issues: The item or system may break down prematurely.
Increased future costs: Problems arising from shortcuts may be more expensive to fix later.
Legal or ethical violations: In some cases, cutting corners can be illegal or unethical.

Origin: The idiom likely originates from the literal act of taking a shortcut by "cutting" across a corner instead of following the proper, longer route. While this might save a little time or distance, it could also lead to damage (e.g., trampling grass) or an increased risk of accidents.

In essence, cutting corners is about prioritizing expediency over thoroughness and quality, often with detrimental long-term effects.

So hope this helps the discourse

bixton:
Many a times we use words wrongly.

The use of same color wires for total house building wiring can best be said to be a work done wrong instead of saying cutting corners. At least we know that the cables used are not substandard type or wrong size.

Please can you clarify.....

I want to believe that the house is already wired that way before you came and installed your solar panels systems and the family has been enjoying light in that house....

So please can you get explain what led to the fire incident?

Warning: this is going to be a long read!

I think that I will disagree with you.

Because I do not have the time to draft a response, i asked AI to help me explain why using one color of wire for total house wiring is indeed cutting corners.

First, I asked, What is wrong about using one color of wire to wire an entire house?

Using only one color of wire to wire an entire house is dangerous, against electrical codes, and makes troubleshooting extremely difficult.

Safety and Code Compliance

Electrical wiring color codes exist for safety. Different colors are used to identify the function of each wire: hot wires that carry current, neutral wires that return current to the source, and ground wires that provide a safe path for stray electricity to prevent shocks.


Without this color-coding system, a person working on the electrical system—whether it's the homeowner or a professional electrician—cannot easily tell which wire is which. This drastically increases the risk of touching a live wire, leading to electric shock, burns, or even death. The National Electrical Code (NEC) in the U.S. and similar standards internationally mandate these color codes to ensure safety. Using a single color would be a violation of these codes and could cause an inspection to fail.


Troubleshooting

When an electrical problem occurs, such as a tripped breaker or a malfunctioning outlet, the color-coded wires provide a universal language for diagnosing the issue. An electrician can quickly identify the purpose of each wire at a glance. If all wires are the same color, every wire would have to be tested individually with a multimeter to determine its function, which is a tedious and time-consuming process that can add significant cost to a repair.


Common Color Codes

While a single color is a major issue, it's also important to know the standard colors. In the United States, common residential wiring includes:

Black and red wires for hot wires.

White or gray for neutral wires.

Green, green with a yellow stripe, or bare copper for ground wires.

The video below explains the significance of different wire colors in a home's electrical system.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Far1jkipwdc

Next, I asked Would it be correct to say such a practice is cutting corners?

Yes, using a single color of wire to wire an entire house is a classic example of "cutting corners" and is considered an unsafe, non-compliant, and dangerous practice in the electrical industry. ⚠️ It's a huge risk that can lead to severe consequences.

Why It's a Dangerous Practice

Safety Hazard: The primary function of wire color coding is to identify the purpose of each wire instantly. Without it, you can't tell which wire is live (hot), which is the neutral return path, and which is the ground safety wire. This puts anyone working on the electrical system—including future homeowners, inspectors, or electricians—at a high risk of electric shock, electrocution, or starting a fire.

Code Violation: Electrical codes, like the National Electrical Code (NEC), mandate specific color codes for wiring for safety and uniformity. Using one color for all wires is a direct violation of these codes. A property wired this way would fail inspection, making it difficult to sell or insure.

Troubleshooting Nightmare: When an issue arises, such as a short circuit or a non-working outlet, an electrician uses the wire colors to quickly diagnose the problem. A system with a single color would require extensive, time-consuming testing of every wire to determine its function, which increases repair costs and prolongs the outage.

Properly color-coded wiring is the standard for a reason: it's a critical safety measure that makes electrical systems safer to install, maintain, and troubleshoot. Cutting this corner is not just a shortcut; it's a serious hazard that can have deadly consequences.

You can see an electrician discuss the importance of wire color coding in Electrical Wire Color Coding Used By Electricians. This video explains how electricians rely on color coding to understand a circuit and ensure safety.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhZcWykPWQc


Conclusion my words not AI this time around

I am a hobbyist. I fix electrical issues at home, I have even studied a bit of electronics so I can troubleshoot circuits on my state of the art in its day vintage amplifiers (Kenwood KA-907s). I even got the service manuals for all of them, so I know that color coding was done for standardization so anyone can just look at a circuit and understand in minutes what the circuit designers built, as far as I am concerned, using one wire to build an entire building's electrical circuit is electrical heresy and blasphemy and everyone who does that should be sent to the gallows as they have no business playing with electricity and its circuits.

What twinskenny said is entirely plausible

@gloriousgbola @twinskenny @bixton

Today I was privileged to see a house being metered.

The problem seems to be that even the representatives of the electricity distribution authority (AEDC) do the wrong thing. They used black wires for both the live and the neutral. It was a one phase meter by the way. I also noticed that the housing contractor (it was a house in an estate built for civil servants somewhere in Abuja) used red wires for both the live and the neutral for the wiring of the house.

As I watched closely, after installing the meter, he taped one of the black wires likely to indicate that it is live wire.

Last week one of the companies in my office building installed a 5kva Felicity inverter and 7.5kva lithium battery. The installer used red wires all through.

So this is where the problem is.

The contractors, the electricity distribution company, the home owners who do not know any better and nearly everyone else is cutting corners.

Unless you know better, because whenever I want to buy wires for installing my solar panels, I insist on double wire with different colors, and when I want to wire a house I insist we buy 3 different wires, red, black and green. The installers often say no need for the earth, I insist on earthing everything.

I noticed that in my own house (the new house I spoke of in my last post) that has a three phase meter, the wire from the pole is black but has all the proper color markings for all the phases, neutral and earth. But it is when the wires from the meter leave into the house that the wiring is done wrong.

This is why one needs to know a bit of something and not leave every fine detail to contractors.

bixton:
Except if the cables are substandard, just get a good and diligent electrician and let him trace the wires and run coloured tapes on the wires for proper identification at the necessary points through and through.

Excellent suggestion that will save me a ton of cash, those cables are pricey. Thanks.

Especially as the property does not belong to me!

GloriousGbola:
https://lagostar.ng/

this is lagos star. they are a cable manufacturer

you can get their abuja number and get all colours you need.

pls do your due diligence.

i am based in lagos so most of my suppliers are lagos based

i am 80% sure the earthing in the house is badly done to begin with

unfortunately i cant recommend an electrician in abuja because i am actually searching for one right now

option 2 - buy cable in lagos and waybill to abuja

Thank you!

GloriousGbola:
CAPITAL NO

single phase
red is live
black is neutral
green is earth

for three phase
l1 red
l2 yellow
l3 blue
neutral black
earth green

it is corner cutting or olodo contractors who keep trying to use only one colour

yes it will work, but it will make future troubleshooting or upgrade a nuisance

if you connect live and neutral wire together that is a short circuit straight

unfortunately there is a serious gap in nigerian electricians competence and knowledge transfer. most of them hire small boys who know nothing to wire houses. last week we got a call from a site and that is exactly what happened. one jjc had wired live to neutral - soo circuit kept tripping off

they dont know any standards- as long as the light comes on 'it is working'

I moved to a new house and all the wires from the pole to the house are black.

All the wires from the meter into the house are black.

All the wires to and from the phases are black.

The wires into the ELCB is black, live and neutral out of the ELCB into the DB are red.

I went to market yesterday to buy 6mm wire and they say they have only red, I said I want black and white, they said use tape to make the red black that they have only red.

I think that for my sanity I will keep looking for the wires of the proper colors and rewire the wiring.

I literally had to go to youtube before I could connect my inverter to the house because of this nonsense

I will also replace the ELCB with my own RCCB.

I have seen it trip off in response to an overload that caused a fire and also trip off when water got into one of the circuits of the freezer wires, so I am a convert through and through.

The house even has an earth fault and I wonder how easy it is going to be to troubleshoot

Excuse my ignorance but it is ok to use one color say red or black to wire an entire house?

gbadexy:
Our present ready mixed screeding putty application for a nairalander.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zliey77GhVk?si=nwM2nkCTA7oliblW

Please what is the current price of your 20L pail of putty?

Do you have someone who knows how to apply it in Abuja (not someone who has to travel here)?

Asking because most people opt for cement or pop application which means they might not know how to apply it properly

favouredbymercy:
There is a 63amp breaker, but doesnt trip. So na to dey monitor and trip off before full charge if i am to continue using it?

If it trips off, I allow the battery to discharge a bit through usage and then you can turn the breaker on again, failing which you will simply run down your battery.

Or discover that the remaining runtime has been severely limited