₦airaland Forum

Good argument, but take it to the religion section.

LordReed:
Guy why you go revive this thread? You just want to remind me of my silliness those days bah. LoLz.

🌚
😂😂😂

I saw the username and was like "hol' up!" 🧐.

Bump. Interesting conversation.

Mujtahida:
N
But you were talking to Tonga FA at the same time with NFF that you can't keep your eggs in one basket. Now you have no eggs and no basket.

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Gabrielshow24:
I answered your question, the bible doesn't give detailed explanation as to why vestigial structures were formed.

It gives reasons why man as a whole was formed!

To use the words of Galileo, the bible shows the way to get to heaven but not how the heavens go!!!

The bible's core message is about salvation.
Giving historical contexts where necessary.

It gave us an overview that the heavens and the earth were made in seven days!
I have gone through this already.

-------------------
Based on fossil records and artifacts found in ancient civilizations, the images of some "dinosaurs" are clearly depicted!!!

That's why I said so.
My bad for not clarifying the era!!!
You can do your research and refute me, if possible.
---------------------
Once again, I am not against scientific principles, I use and embrace them in my day to day activities.

My allusion to Reed's question was that the seven days wasn't "physical" hence the "guess estimations" to prove my point!
--------------------
My 'lack of evidence' statement is related to the "seven days" explanation. There's no way to reconcile this with physical explanations!
I hold on to that out of strong belief.
--------------------
Also, like you said Science isn't perfect we are still far from unifying every principle but like I said, you will at best just be looking at the "factory processes" and not the "maker".

That's the christian belief!!!

Fine then. So why should I believe your God and trust his soteriological proclamations and promises (salvation), if he can't even be bothered to provide validation for his cosmological claims 🤔? Something like that should be fúcking simple for an all-powerful being, so I don't see why not. And in tandem with his desire for mankind's salvation, what exactly is stopping him from elucidating the creation process accurately 💁🏽?

The Bible can't even get basic facts about our observable universe correct, but you expect us to take its metaphysical claims for granted?

It's cute that you want to maintain your "strong belief". But whether you believe or not is inconsequential to the universe. The universe operates strictly according to immutable physical laws, and it makes no difference if you comprehend them or you don't.

And if truly you cared about scientific principles, or at least respected them, then you would know that it makes no sense to make random speculations or try to force-fit biblical narratives into the observable reality. For your info, the point of that quote by Galileo that you cited was to express a similar sentiment, fighting against scriptural literalism or the combination of religious beliefs with scientific ideas.

Regarding the dinosaurs, the geological evidence is as bright as day: they went extinct roughly 60 million years before human beings even came into the picture. So your reference to fossil records depicting dinosaurs in ancient civilizations sounds like a misunderstanding of paleontological taxonomy to me 🤷🏽.

Abbeyme:
No basis for comparison here.

SRT (Senator Remi Tinubu) is a protected citizen who must enjoy some levels of state protection and privileges. So, security protocol must prevail.

Whereas, PO is no longer a political power holder nor appointee, coupled with the fact that he is within his ethnic group - so threat level is considerably low.

Ironically, our GenZ can’t take half of the insults they dish out at the older members of our society.

My thoughts.

Where are the insults 🧐?

What you guys saw in that video are members of the society giving a big middle finger to a useless government that has shown time and time again that they deserve no respect 🤷🏽. The truth will set you free, but first it will piss you off 🙃.

Obviously, with the massive discrepancy between how Remi was received and how Obi was received, the message was clear and unfiltered: We don't want you and we never wanted you.

Bump

Seriously? No hip hop heads or enthusiasts on this forum? I thought the Drake Kendrick saga would pull in a lot of new fans? Abi things just dey different when it comes to 9ja?

Abeg if you're a fan like me, come let's discuss o.

OP do you know the meaning of the word "evidence", because this is not it.

Anyway, let's watch and see how this case will unfold. I have no dog in this fight. We'll revisit this conversation when Natasha finally provides the evidence.

It's just sad that we have to pontificate about trivial nonsense like this when we have more pressing issues in the country that need to be addressed.

How far guys?

Una sure say the first GTA 6 trailer no be collective hallucination?

Whether she's seeking attention or not, hardly anybody truly gives a fúck if she offs herself. Sadly. That's the just the beautiful nature of mankind.

Personally I'd rather people don't start offing themselves left right and centre, but will it be okay on my part to stop someone from killing himself, since I'd technically be impeding on other people's free will?

Discussion for another day.

CJERRYEMILEX:
Well, I have come to terms that most humans have there own bias, their actions/utterances to something depends on which side they are at the moment, not necessarily based on the truth or the right thing.

But in all we should try and avoid hypocrisy and sycophancy because integrity and dignity are priceless Virtues that will always stand out.

Perfect comment. Couldn't have summed up the human condition any better.

🤦🏽

Bro, first of all, you've gone off on a completely absurd tangent waffling about something else entirely. The time period in which God created the earth wasn't exactly the focal point of my question. It was specifically about purpose and the concept of ideas behind intentional design. I don't understand how you missed that. We'll get to the topic of the length of time of creation but for now, I need you to quit the unnecessary dodge-and-weave and let's focus on the original question which I asked you: if God truly created all species on this earth as they appear today, then can you provide a very solid explanation for why God will create vestigial structures in human beings and animals (appendix, wisdom teeth, coccyx). If there is no apparent purpose to these organs (and some are even harmful in some cases), then why did your God create them?

Now, for the rest of your reply:

Gabrielshow24:
I don't have a problem with evolution 🤔.
I'm familiar with it, I know what I need to know about it.

Of course you do. But do you know enough of it to discard it entirely as a complete lie?

Gabrielshow24:
The bible doesn't provide a basis as to why these structures were created.
It only provides the basis for which man as a whole was created🤔!!!

.

Then why is it called the infallible word of God, and why is it held in such high regard if the information contained inside is incomplete 😕?

I'm pretty sure a book that is believed to perfectly explain the process behind the creation of humans and other living, can also explain why they were created. Why should the two concepts be mutually exclusive? You Christians believe everything happens for a reason so definitely there has to be a very sound and convincing reason why vestigial organs exist 💁🏽.

If you accept that the Bible cannot provide any reason for vestigial organs, then the Bible is just as unreliable as the Theory of Evolution in your own eyes. You can't give what you don't have. You should be treating the Bible with the same level of skepticism because it clearly doesn't have the answers. Yet, you guys don't see the irony in turning a blind eye to the faults of your Bible, while in the same breath decrying evolution for lacking complete information at every chance you get.

Gabrielshow24:
----------------
To reply you, seven days of what?
We have no empirical measurement as to what these seven days constitutes.

Some might argue using peter's words that a thousand years is like a day before God🤔 but even that fails!

We might also posit, taking into cognizance the questions God directed to Job as regards the storehouses of hail etc
We can extrapolate further by assuming that the first seven days were used to make these storehouses, this entire process is often referred to by some christians as the "spiritual creation" by reconciling this with Genesis 1 & 2.

There we see that although man was created on the sixth day he hadn't been molded from the ground yet.

Thus we can speculate that whatsoever those six days are, it could be 'spiritual' based on some measurement we don't yet know about, or it could be relative to our spatial system.

It's all speculation but the consensus among theologians is that gen1 summarized the spiritual creation while gen2 talks about the physical processes 🤔.

When I first read this part of your reply, I burst out laughing 😂 🤣. I need you to take a deep breath and read what you've just written here. If your self-awareness is still intact, you will quickly realize that this tired perambulation about temporal relativism that you did here is a telling indicator of the problems affecting your position in this debate. Now, look at all the speculation you've been reduced to making, even though the Bible you rely on is supposed to be the unrivaled arbiter of universal truth.

What am I supposed to learn from this response you've put up now? Where is the objective, undeniable truth in all these guesstimations 🤔?

If you would be open minded enough to embrace it, science has very strong and convincing answers to the same questions you're tripping over yourself just to answer, dating the age of the universe and our entire solar system to billions of years.

Don't get me wrong, it's your own prerogative to reject scientific assertions, in spite of all the evidence. My only issue is that when you guys reject these assertions (the overwhelming evidence supporting them regardless), you fall back on even worse beliefs and worldviews to answer the questions that you claim you can't find in scientific theories. The funniest part is, on a fundamental level, majority of you have no issue with science at all, except when it stands in direct opposition to your beliefs.

So basically, all you wrote up there is just random guesses and arguments born out of your own ignorance. Notice how you didn't give any definite or profound answers. It was funny watching you bring up Peter's statement though ("a thousand years is like a day before God", completely forgetting that he very likely meant that statement as poetic theological verbiage, which cannot possibly constitute actual fact, given that he didn't arrive at that statement by carrying out any measurements. It read more like a metaphorical expression to describe God transcending the concept of time.

Gabrielshow24:
Judging by the usual biblical narrative to only give you what is 'sufficient' one can infer even from Cain's statement that there were others🤔

Whether 'others' were of "humankind" is still a big question and judging by historical evidences, there seems to be at least a little "cohabitation" or "coexistence" between men and some "creatures".
The obvious one being dinosaurs.

None of what you've just said makes any sense. Where did you get the atrocious idea that humans were cohabiting with dinosaurs? Because science doesn't support this. And I don't think the Bible does either.

Gabrielshow24:
In conclusion, while yet empirically there is no storehouse for "humans" or even hail and
there is insufficient physical evidence to back biblical claims🤔 but it doesn't negate its plausibility.

😕🤔??

😂😂😂😂😂

Dude, you've indirectly just admitted that your position has no basis and is most likely false. I don't know if it's cognitive dissonance or something else, but it's damn too funny watching you feign ignorance at how lost your position is. You've said it just now that there is no empirical evidence for the Bible, and that's fine, but stop pretending as if it's not an issue. The lack of physical evidence for your claims should be enough reason for you to at least re-examine them, and appraise them in the light of the facts, instead of using deflection and window-dressing to avoid facing the uncomfortable truths about your position.

Science is far from perfect, but it has at least 1 thing that your religion cannot boast of, and that is OBSERVABLE EVIDENCE. With science you can even conduct experiments to test the validity of a claim, something we can't do with most of what the Bible says. Science is far from perfect, but one thing it doesn't do is rely on "plausibilities".

Lucifyre:
WTF 🤣🤣🤣

Lol. I'm coming back later to address his response. I'm equally gobsmacked. 😂

Edit: Notice he didn't reply to the core question in my address.

Gabrielshow24:
It's a side topic🤔.

It doesn't necessarily diminish or prove God's existence but it acts as a "get away" for 'materialist' to dismiss the God argument!

The problem is not in the process called evolution but in the way it's being wielded by some as concrete proof for the non-existence of God.

Although not all atheists are on the far extreme, some are just atheists because they haven't found conclusive "direct" proof for God!

Some use evolution as a razor to trim down the God argument since evolution explains, in simplicity, the processes involved while christians argue that evolution among others follow the owner's(God's) script!!!

Hence both sides, poke holes into each other's premises and conclusions.

For the christians, a good way is to show that evolution is insufficient to explain all physical biological things, some use the "Cambrian explosion" as proof against this. Some also argue using giants, some use " stasis" and the list goes on.

Evolutionist have also come up with better ways to defend against the refutations subject on the Cambrian explosion among others.

Others, use intelligent design, philosophy, music etc as proof for God, this self same evidences in a different view🤔 can also be used to support "evolutionary stands" implying that humans prioritized features necessary for their survival.

Hence it's a two-edged sword.
And the famous "observer bias" comes into play.

For the creationist, it's the hand of God.
For the atheists, it's the hand(👀) of nature.

One argues, that the observation of the physical processes is sufficient for all things.

While one argues, that 'the other' is just studying the 'factory processes' and not the creator of the factory!!!

With the yardstick always leading to the flaw of materialism - "consciousness" 🤔 or abstractions which cannot be empirically proven!!!

From your entire writeup, I think it won't be out of place to conclude that you seem to have a fundamental problem with the Theory of Evolution. It's very easy to look at something you don't understand and conclude that just because you can't explain it, then God must be the only thing that can explain it.

But it's still a cop-out. It simply smacks of ignorance and intellectual laziness for me.

I'd rather we all just admit we don't know the facts about something, instead of imagining things just to satisfy our ego. I will admit, I don't fully understand evolution myself, but I don't feel the need to. Personally, I didn't become an atheist because of evolution. I became an atheist because I haven't come across any solid evidence that can convince me God exists. And the evidence presented by Christians so far have been lacklustre to me.

While I don't give a shít about evolution, I firmly believe there is stronger evidence attached to it, than there is attached to religious creationism. You can mock evolution all you want, but you'd be out of your mind if you seriously think that God creating the world in just 7 days is a far more plausible hypothesis.

Let me ask you then, since you're obviously on the side of religious creationism, if God truly created all species on this earth as they appear today, then can you provide a very solid explanation for why God will create vestigial structures in human beings and animals (appendix, wisdom teeth, coccyx). If there is no apparent purpose to these organs (and some are even harmful in some cases), then why did your God create them?

blowjohn:
Lupe overdos himself.
Nas is the greatest.
We take for granted how effortlessly Nas makes conversational rap. The complexity of the rhymes while still being coherent in the narrative he’s creating is what separates him from the rest.

I'll name 5 Nas songs far better than any other rappers using those elements u mentioned.

That said, MF doom: he was good. But can't come close to biggie or Nas or prime Jay Z.
Even Eminem is better than mf doom in terms of versatility ( it's Eminem's subject matters that messes him up).



Av listened to both tracks before.

But they are nothing compared to verses by Nas such as on:

Streets disciple ( 3rd verse)
Memory lane.
De ja vu
Understanding
Take it in blood
The cure
Godfather 4 ( with Dave East)
Give it up fast with mobb deep
No love lost feat shaq( the basketballer, big tariq and Jay Z)
Take in blood part 2( more complex than the part 1)


I don't want to even mention tens of more crazy Nas verses.

Just tell me one Kendrick verse that blows those Nas verses I listed there out of the water.

I already told you just now that damn near all the rappers you mentioned are ahead of Kendrick when it comes to lyrical skills and tecnique, including Nas, so I'm not going to argue that Kendrick is better than Nas, when I believe otherwise. 😕

You're still not getting my point. We've got different rap styles, from trap to pop to mumble to lyrical etc. Just because Nas is better lyrically than Kendrick doesn't automatically turn Kendrick to a trap artist, or a popstar. His style of music is obviously lyrical, inspite of the fact that he's not among the very best. For instance Joe Budden is a lyrical rapper, even if he's one of the least impressive.

We're actually in agreement here about Kendrick not being that good, except you keep thinking that someone being lyrically better than someone else makes that someone else not to be a lyrical rapper anymore. Or at least, that's how I'm understanding your logic, and it doesn't make any sense to me. 🤷🏽

And I'm going to call a big fat CAP on Jay Z, Eminem, Nas etc being better than MF DOOM. Lol. 😂😂💀Bruh, I'll just take it that you're not really familiar with DOOM's body of work. Please have a listen to "All Caps", "Figaro", "All Outta Ale", "That's That". Or pretty much go have a listen to his entire 2004 album with Madlib "Madvillainy". I can probably count the number of rappers on one hand alone, that can match him in terms of clever puns, wordplay, witty punchlines, dense and complex rhyme schemes. Only people I can think of are Andre 3k and Aesop Rock. Then maybe Lupe to an extent. This MF DOOM dude fúcking rhymes his syllables for crying out loud. 😭

Honestly the only thing you can give to Jay and Em over DOOM is that their songs often have some kind of narrative behind them, and sound more catchy, unlike DOOM who just uses very abstract beats and mostly rhymes just for the sake of rhyming. There's a reason he's commonly called your favorite rapper's favorite rapper. I won't be surprised if your favorite modern rapper was inspired by DOOM. 😂

Aesop Rock and Lupe Fiasco too are lyrical devils as well. Please check these guys out and listen to their songs closely. Most hip hop fans online will tell you that Lupe's song "Mural" is arguably the greatest hip hop record of all time for many hip hop heads. Eight minutes long, and packed with abstract philosophical commentary, insane metaphors, interesting vocabulary, witty bars, etc.

Saying that he overdoes himself has absolutely nothing to do with his lyrical abilities. It's just comes down to your preference. Personally he's my favorite rapper, and I enjoy his deep layered storytelling abilities. It took me years to understand what his song "Superstar" was all about. That song is so deep, and it tells at least 3 different stories, which you might not pick up at first listen. I mean for crying out loud, Lupe's the reason the lyric site "Rap Genius" even exists, according to the owner of the site. 😂

I love Nas too. Illmatic is in my monthly rotation for rap albums. I'd say that among the MAINSTREAM rappers, he's definitely the goat. It would have been Lupe if his career had taken off in the mainstream, and his label Atlantic didn't screw him over and make him retreat to the underground. I'm trying to think right now, and I can't come up with any MAINSTREAM rap artist that can contend with Nas lyrically. The closest would be Jay Z, Andre 3000 and Eminem. Andre 3000 especially is very close.

But if you want to include the UNDERGROUND rappers, including battle rappers like Daylyt and Loaded Lux, omo, Nas won't sound too special anymore. Lol.

P.S When it comes to conversational rap, I'd argue that Q-Tip and A Tribe Called Quest are goated.

I just have a simple question to ask the Christians here on this thread.

Please, without ad hominem, goalpost shifting, strawmen, reversing the burden of proof, and outright lying, can you tell us exactly what the Theory of Evolution has to do with proving your God's existence?

blowjohn:
Kendrick is not a lyrical rapper. He's not even a top 20 GOAT.


Nas
Jay Z
Guru
Prodigy
Biggie
Big L
Mase
GZA
Raekwon
AZ
Ghost face
Big pun
Kool G Rap
Krs1
Big daddy Kane
Rakim
Method man
Kurrupt
Scarface
Game
Inspector deck
Cormega

Etc are all better than Kendrick Lamar

Do you even understand the concept of lyrical rap?

First of all, it's true: Majority of the rappers you mentioned are better than him lyrically. Personally I'd go ahead to add Lupe Fiasco, MF DOOM (the goat lyricist imo), Black Thought, Aesop Rock, Homeboy Sandman, and even his TDE compatriot Ab Soul. With your long list, I'm surprised you didn't even mention at least two of these guys, as they're at the forefront of any discussion about lyrical rap when you ask true hip hop heads. They all blow him out of the water.

But even if you drop a list of rappers all the way from California to the 5 boroughs of New York, it still won't subtract from the fact that Kendrick IS a lyrical rapper.

How can we identify lyrical rap? It's usually through elements like the wordplay, rhyme schemes, double or triple entendres, creativity, sophisticated storytelling etc. These are the hallmarks of a lyrical rap record. A good example is "Mural" by Lupe Fiasco, or "It Ain't Hard To Tell" by Nas. Now go listen to "Rigamortis" or "Nosetalgia", and come back and tell me that Kendrick isn't a lyrical rapper.

I hope you know he came up as a battle rapper in Compton? Just because you can drop a laundry list of better MCs doesn't mean he can't spit. I'll be the first to say, all the time, that Kendrick is definitely not in the upper echelon of gifted MCs. That being said, he still fits into the lyrical rap category and he's waaaaay better than average. Don't let his pop sounding records like "Humble" deceive you.

As for Drake, he mostly caters to the pop, RnB audience. Like in his last collab album for instance. Kendrick does too, but most of the time his raps are heavily layered lyrically and socially conscious.

tommylee:
But i thought, Madam Eze was Obasanjo biatch during his regime😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
I can bet my balls Obj use this woman warm him bed, talk about morality 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

Ultimately, this is irrelevant to the main conversation about the evidence of Natasha's allegations, but omo I have to say, if truly Madam Oby was getting piped by Obasanjo, then she must have some really good pússy, cause, speaking for myself, I wouldn't look at someone like Oby and have the urge to díck her down. But then again, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

.

.

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Smartcitizen:
Can Tinubu test this jersey let's see how it will look on his cocaine infested body?

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

I imagine the jersey will just drape pitifully on his clunky frame with all the inelegance of a worn out tablecloth on an old wobbly chair, accentuating the topography of his ancient physique.

This black bloated sellout again.

elyte89:
E b like say ppu don move on with this 3points deduction o…🤣🤣🤣🤣,so e no sure be dt …but sincerely fifa suppose punish dem for fielding. A suspended player

It's pointless at the end of the day. The 3 point deduction from Bafana was an exciting prospect when we believed that the boys would follow up their performance against Rwanda and beat Zimbabwe. But if we're struggling to muster a single point against them, then what are we going to the WC for? It's not like we'd even make it all the way to the finals if we qualified. Judging by our current form, we'd most likely crash out of the group stage with just 1 or 2 points at most.

Jakumo:
How such a mentally ill old hag found her way out of a lunatic asylum and into the halls of legislative power is a mystery in the first place.

Anyway, good riddance to a truly nasty old noise-making crone who suffers from intense but amusing delusions of grandeur.

Bruh, did this woman piss in your garri? Cause the way you keep pressing your feet on her neck here. 😭😭💀

I trust Nigerians to yab the poor guy for no discernable reason. 🙄

We fell off, and we're never getting back up off our asses unless something changes in NFF. Or better yet, we start getting the privatization of sports in the country. Then maybe we'll begin to see some glimpses of improvement.

blowjohn:
Na by crowd?

Even Kendrick Lamar and drake will pull crowd but do they represent lyrical Hiphop?

No!

Kendrick is a lyrical rapper, so I'm not sure why you claim he doesn't represent lyrical hip hop.

I'll give you Drake though. Lyrically, he's average at best.

trilacos:
Can Nigeria still qualify,do we still have a glimpse of hope or it's finished. Someone should answer,e dey pain me.

All roads lead to AFCON 2025. 🤪

Samueltemi337:
No hope again
Forget about world cup

I swear. It's actually fúcking sad that we're relying on point deductions from South Africa to keep our WC dream alive.

xynerise:
Super Eagles is the Manchester United of African Football

I swear guy. 😂

Edit: Una dey funny o. You dey spam my post with likes, the guy wey put the original post nko? Lol.