₦airaland Forum

A88C:
you again quote me out of contest, did i say your ability to suffer lies within yyour palm. you wanted to put word into my mouth ooh no . i said your ability to end suffering and poverty lies within your palm. is the the way you debate？than that is devilish for telling me what i did not say.

you cant dodge this oneoo... if the ability to end suffering and poverty lies in our palm why cant i do anything about a drunk driver? why cant an innocent 12 years old do anything about her 30yr old molester. how does the ability to end suffering (accident or rap.e in this case) lie in that palm of the victims i just used as example?
answer the direct question instead of trying to dodge it by claiming i am quoting u out of context.

you ask me as to why the world is merciles. i try to provide the reason by citing example and you call that jumping around. wait , do you argue without providing evidence , well i see that in you. if that is the way you argue then your arguement can easily be consider gabbage.

oga, you CANT provide a reason for something by citing example. they are not the same. if i ask you why is john blind, so you will provide me example of blind people? how does example of of something prove the reason
so i will ask again.. why is the world merciless.i am not asking for example of a merciless world. THINK
i answered that the world is merciless because means of survival is scarce and people want to hold unto what they have or acquire more to increase their chance of survival. do u agree or not.

Did i refer to quran here,this is another false accusation. please learn to learn how to argue consructively instead of insulting your opponet to win a debate.it shows your level of IQ is weak.

please stop talking about IQ here, u have not even reached the level of mentioning it.
if u were wise u will know why i mentioned the quran. but then u scream IQ when u obviously cant even think.

look at your level of thinking the,rich build gate just to protect is terriotry or what did yousay. now i belive the reason why poverty will not end,since the rich are not ready to accomodate the poor.

what? who said poverty will end? wait, so u used to believe poverty will end? how will poverty end when i already told u the means of survival is already scarce? the rich are trying to be richer and the poor are struggling to be rich, all in the struggle for limited resources. even if the poor becomes rich, they will not accommodate the poor because they know they dont really have enough. Now what is Allah doing about it? why did he create a world with scarce resources. He should do something about it instead of waiting to punish people after life for a world he created.

you will be a very poor student i guess,how many times do i want to repeat myselves that the world problem is as a result of our work.if you do not belive ,it is not my duty to force it into you. ALLAH GUIDE THOSE WHOM HE WILL.
you are too insultive and that is why i respond to you harshly. it is not my intention

oga, i have been arguing in a civil way with you. I never uttered a word of insult to u. please start from the beginning and say where i even insulted u. I am really surprised that u actually accused me for being very insultive when i have not insulted you. this is what u guys do when ur belief have been challenged. u turn around and say u have been insulted.

back to topic... if the problem of the world is our work...what did the innocent 12years old do to be raped (what was her work that she deserved being molested, how did her work result to her being molested)
this is a civil question, i hope u dont find it insutlive

A88C:
do you even get the scenario quite all right, if am to go by your logic,i have to ask all the driver at a car park that who is not drunk before boarding it. atheist with their unapplicable logic，well,as the sayng go heaven help those help themselves. note try to read from your own write up,i correct your mistake

which my logic? is it my logic that is under test here or urs? did i open a thread saying can I prove that there is life after death or that i know the creator gave us free will?
now the question "if going by your logic, i have to as all driver at a car park that who is drunk before boarding it?" is what u should have asked yourself before saying that we have free will and freedom of choice and that the ability to end suffering lies in our palms. how can the ability to end suffering lie in my palm when i have no control over a drunk driver. THINK!!

now answer the question as asked in the post u quoted and replied like u were in a hurry. I have repeated it below

it is already established that the innocent 12 years old suffer. that's not my issue with u. you said man has free will and choice to chose between good and evil and will get punishment for choosing evil. Did the innocent 12year old make the choice to suffer? why is the person in the drunk drivers car not given the option to know that the car will be in an accident so that he can decide to enter or not.
why should the innocent suffer for the choice of the wicked? why does your so called almighty choice disappear once it is the innocent's time to suffer?

A88C:
you need evidence of the world merciless,then it is unaccountable.let me give you two for a digest.

the creation of passport is to check the influence of poor country to invade rich country,therefore rich country enjoy good romance smong themselves while the poor country needs to pass the mediterianian sea of the coast of libya.many who passes this process lost thier lifes

the rich man demacate his house with long wall and fortified gate to stop inflluence of the poor even within the same,community therefore making the poor finding alternative way to penetrate the house by becoming,arm,robber and proffesional higher killer

man has wiill hatred and wickness in his heart and therefore blame circumstances for his woe.

your ability to end suffer and poverty lies within your palm and not circumstanstance.it is not by accident we came to this world,our purpose on earth is what define us as human.

you seem to like running round and round... if you have nothing to say just tell me so that I will quit responding to you.

did i ask you for evidence of the world's mercilessness? did you even read what i post?

i asked you why is the world merciless and you are giving me evidence of merciless.

if the rich is preventing the poor from enterin their space isnt it because they are trying to secure their limited means of survival?

oga, leave the koran and use your brain instead of replying me like you are in a beer parlor... i dont have time for lazy thinking.

whether the poor is into armed robbery or the rich is protecting their territory from the poor... everything boils down to scarcity of means of survival.

if you claim your God created the universe, why didnt he solve this problem. further why will he not protect the innocent and helpless? wy will he allow the chice of the wicked to succeed and not give the innocent the choice not to be a victim of the wicked. why will the 12years old not have choice to be a victim or not?
now you say my ability to suffer lies within my palm, so you think the 12 year old who got raped by a 30years old man chose to suffer?

A88C:
this is my issues with kind of people like you.quoting me out of context. i assume you did not read the post very well becuse if you do you will realised the post center on proving the reality of life after death rather than punishment to those who do not belive. no where does the post says you will be punished for not beliving in GOD. it only emphasised on the reality of life after death using the final judgement as a case study.

Your post did not provide even a single reality of after life and no where did i say u said people will be punished for not believing in God... where did you get that. In your post you expressly explained that the only way we can convince a man to be moral is by letting him know he will be punished after life for his sins.
the post does not prove any reality of life after death. it seems u are even confused about ur own post.

avoid your question？ hell no. you were asking for the purpose of evil on earth. i gave you the background of it by telling you GOD Ggave man the free will to choose from wrong and right and majority chooses the former while the few chooses the later.

i never said u avoided my question, i said u avoided my points.
well, free will is not an excuse for God to allow innocent kids and helpless people to suffer in the hands of wicked one.

the ball is in your court,you can now play it how you like.

you gave an evidence of a 12 years old girl been molested by 30 years old man and where does the free will come for the girl. this further you do not read my respond enough.

your response did not say anyting about this example, rather u went ahead and talked about a student who is performing bad in class, how does that relate to my example of an innocent helpless 12years old?

the,world chooses to be wicked ,harsh and selfish not becuse of the wish of GOD but the will of man. consequently,an innocent soul suffer along with the sinners.

why did the world chose to be wicked and selfish? does your God not know the reason? if an innocent soul suffer along with sinners, did he chose to suffer with them?

you board a car of drunken driver, the car hit a nearby tree，the car explode and you die. would will you blame assuming you excape death？ am sure you will agree it is the drunken driver and not the car，the 12yrs old is innocent likewise the car but the driver is not likewise the 30 yrs old man. the innocent girl suffer with the wicked man . just like the way you and the car suffer with the drunken driver when it got an accident，it is not,the purpose of GOD to see us suffering,it is what man has chooses for himself.

it is already established that the innocent 12 years old suffer. that's not my issue with u. you said man has free will and choice to chose between good and evil and will get punishment for choosing evil. Did the innocent 12year old make the choice to suffer? why is the person in the drunk drivers car not given the option to know that the car will be in an accident so that he can decide to enter or not.
why should the innocent suffer for the choice of the wicked? why does your so called almighty choice disappear once it is the innocent's time to suffer?

Junia:
No. In this world we will always experience good and bad things. The world is full of good and evil and we will experience both as far as we are in this world

Good... it has nothing to do with any God... thats just how the world rolls

A88C:
that is not true. majority of human are starving and dying.no peace and love in the world not becuse it is scarce but becuse the world is merciless.

they failed to adopt to the teaching of GOD which encourage us to show mercy and love to one another.

people are dying day by day as a result of what man has chooses for himself.wickedness ,hatred and selfishness.

is this how u proffer solution to a problem? by just making blanket statement?
the world is merciless? why is the world merciless? why are humans wicked and selfish?

your response to my post sounds like this "The reason people are wicked is because people are wicked"

why are people wicked, selfish, killing each other, why are filled with hatred?

evil emerged because of scarce means of survival. it is because being alive is a struggle.

a lion is deadly because he has to feed his family
a scorpion will sting you because he feel threatened by what u did in it's space.
a molester will molest because he is sex starved or because his has poor parental upbringing, which is usually because he was raised in a poor background or by parents who do not have the adequate training to bring them up.

scarcity is the word my brother. An evil man lacks something or is afraid of losing something.

now instead of allowing the innocent to suffer while waiting for after life to punish the wicked, Allah could have just ensured there is enough to go around for human he created, and also watch out for the helpless and innocent... this will surely reduce or eliminate evil.

But do you believe Allah can do that? NO

rather u want to blame humans and call them wicked while you forget the creator, the once who sees all, the one who gave us free will to do anything while he makes means of survival scares, the one who is testing all. No he is not to blame. Lets blame humans who are just victim of the world Allah created.

A88C:
first of all ,this life is a test for mankind, my glorious book made me to know that this life was created to try us and know who is best in character after we have being giving the free will.

after man has choosen the free will.（the ability to choose from right and wrong）which are not giving to other animal.man decided to spread evil on earth while some few are spreading peace.

the best among them will be compesated handsomely while the bad egg among,them will recived his full reward. GOD IS NEVER UNJUST TO,THE LAST DEGREE

nonetheless GOD intention is not meant to,made man suffer ,it is the root man chooses for himself. for example the most poorest student academically can still correct his performance by getting serious and hardworking becuse being poor academically is not forever. that is to say, nothing is permanent.unless you chooses to make it so.

many will recived their punishment here on earth and as well in the hereafter, GOD Is ever merciful and forgiving.if you come back to him while you are on earth is still ready,to take you back. Burning in the hell-fire is not the intention of GOD to mankind. GOD DOES NOT NEED US WE NEED HIM.

the power to fend for yourself has being given to you and you have the will to take it or reject it.

i really dont know what you are doing but your response makes me feel like it wasnt my post u responded to. or did you deliberately avoid some of the points i raised based on you OP?

what has choice or freewill got to do with what we are saying?

in your opening statement you were of the view that the only way that man can be made to live a moral life is by telling him about he punishment after life hence my response, now u are bringing in free will?

well let me flow with u and talk about choice and free will.

I want to first ask you... what is the aim of free will? what is the aim of testing us at the expense of suffering by an innocent person?
if it is Allah that gave us the free will to do anything and some are using it to do evil, what really can we humans do about it? dosent that make the whole problem of evil beyond us?

now your poorest student example is misplaced here. Lets use an innocent victim, one who has little or no control to what is happening to him exampla, a girl of 12 being molested by a 30years old man. where does free will come in for the girl? what choice did she have? and what is Allah doing about it? Yet all he does it watch this wicked man succeed in messing up this girls life and only waits to punish him after death. this makes no sense to me.

again like i said, telling people they will receive punishment after death is not the solution to evil on earth. Allah should simply not allow evil people to succeed, that's all.

A88C:
firstly you could not even provide the best kind of punishment that could equate the gravity offense commited by hitler and idi amin base on human law

what will be the main concept of peace without the concept of hereafter. those who share your understanding are the main problem of this world,becuse you could not tell them to embrace peace on the love of humanity alone. there need to be something extraodinary people must fear that is real . the rapist and killers has nothing to worried about base on your understanding.

you run up to connculude that i am trying tomake god real. not at all friend .the evidence is crystal clear although you doubt it.

@bold... the question is just ridiculous. what has after life got to do with a peaceful atmosphere here on earth?

majority of humans enjoys peace and love. humans seek absolute peace... the reason why u see war, struggle and evil is because of scarcity of means of survival. telling people about something extraordinary so that they will be scared and conform will not stop people from struggling to live a happy life. or do u think that people who are committing evil dont know about this something extraordinary u are talking about?

@Op you are just concentrating on an after life punishment for a criminal who has done so much harm to innocent people. The problem with this is that the suffering of innocent ones can never be reversed. Why would Allah who has so much power watch wicked people met out terrible things to innocent people only to wait for them after life.
Pain people feel after a heavy trauma lingers for a while, what is Allah doing to stop it. if he has the power to punish an evil man after he dies, what stops him from using that power to stop innocent people from suffering.

A young girl is rap.ed by an evil man. Allah waits for him when he dies... meanwhile the young girl goes true trauma. the cause of her entire future have been changed and she might become a mental patient in future.

An after life punishment is useless to me. Too many bad people know about it, yet it has not reduced evil in anyway. As it seems, Your Allah knows more about after life than we humans. This is the life we know, If the almighty God cannot stop an evil man from selfishly hurting innocent people in this life, who are we to stop him. Yet the only weapon we have used and have used to get this far is through justice, Law, empathy and revenge.

punishment after life is just a long story that is beyond human comprehension and so cannot really be effective... even Allah should know this.

Junia:
Believe it or not, God has provided for you.
He gives to everyone, whether you serve Him or not.

lol... that mean Yahweh must be sleeping or is deliberately mischievous when bed things happens to people

Do people still believe the koran is true?

analice107:
Noise maker. Prove all your bogus claims. Empty vessels makes the loudest noises. Those who do stuff don't talk about them.

Present proofs or you are still the liar that everyone here knows you already are.

Why do you feel i shd commit suicide? The devil inside of you hates me that much to want to see me dead?

Oh wait!!! I should kill myself becos you claim, "just claims, mere claims" that you feed your own family, which you have a responsibility to.

Shouldn't you be ashamed that you give food to your own parents and you bring them out to ridicule because they are Christians? Where even is the prove that you indeed feed them?

Your Master the devil must be hyper happy that he is inciting people to kill themselves, but, sorry, only your frustrated kind jumps into the lagoon not my happy self.


Thanks for announcing to the world that without you your parents will be beggars on the streets of your village.

Let the breast of that woman which suckled you cures you for this ridicule. Stu.pid C.ow

lol @ stupid cow... he is so pained. eyaaa. Yahweh must have really messed u all up.

oya, dont eat for two weeks, pray pray pray, call yourself a worthless sinner. Beg God for help, pray until something happens. Beg him, tell him u are sorry for calling me a stupid cow, remember this will cost you all you have been BEGGING for. Pray for ,forgiveness, act holy holy and wait for your imaginary God to send blessings from above. Dont forget to bribe him with ten percent of the little u have.

while I will be chilling at a bar.

analice107:
If i ever considered you anything close to a man, you lost that right now. Anyone who brings his family to reticule because he gives them any kind of assistance, can't have no respect from me.
Now, get the hell out.

Your God is fake!!!, u re serving an imaginary being. I am doing quite well without denying myself of food or relegating myself and calling myself a worthless sinner, and i dont waste my time praying to something imaginary. if the information is too much for you to handle go jump into lagoon

analice107:
You mean your family members? I will commit suicide because you are feeding your family members? This is what atheism does to people.

I will commit suicide because Frank317 is feeding his family.

Someone pls tie me a noose, i gat to do this, i really have to kill myself, Frank317 is feeding his family, i can't take this, no way.

Neanderthal.

isnt it sad for you? Dont you feel foolish? Oh were u expecting me and my family members to go begging because I dont pray to you dumb God? Is this why you think I am poor? Soory to dissapoint you buddy. just dont go jump into lagoon. I am doing it with out your God. I know this is hard for you to comprehend but am sorry. I am feeding my family and beyond. I a also of great help to christian friends. I wouldnt be surprised if i hear you have killed yourself. Take it easy on yourself bro, some of us are way way beyond your God.

analice107:
This is your only achievement, talking to stupid.

You called Christians lazy and dumb, now you who through atheism has become smart and hardworking, show working or shut the heck up.

blah blah blah.. . you are just a common worshiper of a dead Jew

lovelygurl:
I'm glad you've met another who is as lovely as her and I think you shouldn't get her off your mind. She means a lot to you and I don't think she's someone who can be replaced.

Was she the reason you became an atheist? Couldn't help being surprised when you mentioned Lord in the poem. I know you are not religious

Thanks
This thread has actually spoilt my evening. Off to take some beer.
In time like this i wish there was God.

lovelygurl:
I'm sry, you must have really loved her

Ya,she was the best that happened to me. So sweet, lovely smile and always encouraging. She was a corper.

I opened a thread for her
https://www.nairaland.com/1253680/loving-memory


I just can't get her off my mind. I even thought of her this morning before seeing this thread. I wish the dead could speak.


Well i met another who is as lovely as her and hopefully we will be tieing the knot this October.

delightz:
I was there that day.... And took this picture.
Thank God for life

Hmmm right as u were watching, my precious fiance was burning to death.... I curse this day

The accident took my fiance. Please can I have his contact? I just want to hear anything about her last moment. Did he see her? Hmmm now am sad again

trueking:
Please stop derailing the thread, everyone is not expected to believe in Christ, for those of us who do, let us be, thank you.

Whatever men... Just stop asking Nigerians to be lazy.

Ooooboy, poster head go done full by now. Omo, see interpretation. Everybody done turn dream interpreter. No b small thing.
I am sure the guy is even more confused now... The tree means evil land, the tree means ur life, the women are demons, they are this they are that...All for one dream.

The lord really works in mysterious ways

luvmijeje:
Bros, that dream is a revelation and it centered on that tree.
The woman you saw in that dream signify demon. To re-emphasize, she is not a demon o.

Bros urgently take people who are spiritually strong preferably your pastor and pull that tree down with the fire of God. Do not delay. Preferably go and see your pastor today.

You were not able to kill the woman because you are not spiritually strong enough to face them. Don't go alone o and the woman is not a demon. She and her friend signify the demons behind the tree.

What if God was just playing prank on him... I mean April fool things

analice107:
Why then is he not showing us his achievements through atheism. ?

Lol... Only Jesus follower can be this dumb.

No wonder a Jew who died 2000 years ago is ur God.

trueking:
Ask Jesus to strengthen you, in John 15verse5, Jesus said
“I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. "
Emphasis on without me you can do nothing; you must be connected to Jesus to bear fruit, but most importantly for strength and guidance,
between now and 1p.m pour your heart out to God, meditate on Jeremiah 29 verses 11, 12, and 13 only, believe God for an epiphany of those verses.

Are u even okay? What kind of fruits do u want me to bear?
You that u have Jesus, are u the richest or the happiest man on earth? What kind of fruits are you bearing that you think unbelievers don't bear?

koxyz:
My brother why honoured these people with reply?By now you should know devil is trying to derail this tread because of the secrets you are about to reveal.Ignore them and focuse on your purpose,devil is a liar.

You guys are quick to call the devil when things are not going your way. Where and who is the devil that is always stuck on ur lips?
I sit down i my house and comment on this thread because i find some ideas here ridiculous and you sit down in your house and call me the devil, yet you expect me not to think you are not mentally sick?
Just how will you feel if i call you a green ant with so much assurance just because what you are saying is not in agreement with my thinking?

Trueking, honestly answer this...

Mr. A believes in God, prays and fast steadily but does not work hard neither does he actively looks for work. He stays in his house all day and believes that he will everything he desires; god job, free money just as long as he is steadfast in praying

Mr B believs in God, prays and fast and goes out to search for work. Infact, he works hard and always thinks of the solution to his problems while he always prays and fast.

Mr. C does not believe in God neither does he fast nor prays. He just works hard and thinks of a solution to his problems.


Please without talking long, who do you think is less likely to succeed between the three of them?

trueking:
At the characters in bold, you must have heard there are more than one ways to skin a cat, In the Bible the Babylonians were rich and powerful, but they were neither Christians nor followers of Jehovah, its all about choice, choose you this day who you will serve...
God can give you a job, so can the devil, and there is also provision in the natural for you to get a job, I am for God, and my achievements are through him, I want people to know God can also do the impossible for them like he has done for me countless number of times, choose to either entrust your life to God, or go your way.

why should devil give you a job? I thought u guys said he came to kill steal and destroy, so why should he give anyone any job?

Besides, how do we know when a job is from the devil, God or neutral? I see Christians who say God has given them a job, but some of them are not doing better than me who does not believe in any God.
Why should a whole God, the creator of the universe, the all knowing and all powerful, give you a job and you will be just an average citizen or you will just be rich, still struggling in your daily hustles to maintain that position. there must be something fishy in this bogus claim.

trueking:
Everything in life is not all about money, working hard (although the Holy Spirit can show you how to work smart instead of working hard), There are different problems we encounter as individuals, I have a job yes, but I have other needs money cannot solve, believe me when I say money cannot solve them, there are people with incurable diseases, there are some with abusive spouses, some have trouble getting a mate, some are stagnant in their life, The Holy Spirit can give you guidance regarding what to do, he has different ways of talking to his children, sometimes it can come as an advise from some other person, or a fleeting thought can just cross your mind, and when you work on it you succeed, I can go on and on about this, my brother this world is not made up of just the material things you see around you, there is a lot more we cannot see, trust me bro I have been there, everything you see in the material world is controlled by the spiritual, the spirit realm is as real as the physical, I dare say it is even more real than what you see around you, I want to challenge you, fast with us for three days and observe the midnight prayers, you will see in a change in your dreams, if you are earnest in your prayers God will answer you, in fact na people like you God dey find to show you a sign to follow him.

oga, be it money, marital issues, sickness or psychological problems... people need to be proactive and take charge of their life issues. Praying and still mentally trying to resolve ur problems only make the prayer useless.
I am yet to see anyone that prays and not actively work on his challenges.
And you know you lie when you say Holy spirit gives gudiance. people make decision and call it Holy spirit. I have gone through a problem and came up with a solution after thinking hard something similar to what a christian friend had gone through, yet he was quick to call it the holy spirit when he resolved his own issue. What then solved mine since i dont have the holy spirit? If I can solve my issues just as holy spirit can solve yours does it mean i am equal with the holy spirit? why not come and pray to me.
I am yet to see anything special about being a praying and fasting christian, I see me and them having equal opportunities and i am most times better because the waste their time praying and fasting.
The bad news is that when i face similar challenges with them they blame my issues on lack of prayer and say theirs is as a result of temptations from the devil.

why suffer and pray and fast when at the end you will still face similar challenges with me?

trueking:
By now, hunger would have started knocking on the door of some people, But this is expected, this phase will linger on till 11 a.m, it would subside and return by 2p.m, just hold on, you will not die, remove your mind from the hunger and concentrate on God and The Scriptures

Be careful what comes out of your mouth, become taciturn, talk only when necessary, also watch people and their attitude towards you, some would be used by the Devil to tempt you, try and ignore them in this regard, I have this experience, in my office, anytime I fast, there are certain people that become aggressive towards me, or some of my subordinates would deliberately not carry out assignments delegated to them, when questioned, they have no cogent reason, I used to get worked up on such before, but now I laugh and tell the devil to get "behind me."
I am bringing this up so you will know that people can be used by the Devil to try and make you commit besetting sins, and thereby tampering with the results of your prayers.

All these self suffering and punishment for what? At the end you'd still remain an average citizen in the society. You will still be waiting for Buhari's decision to determine how much u will buy garri. You will still work hard to receive Ur salary which will be paid by your fellow man who probably does not care about praying. You will still look for another excuse when u don't get what u expect.
What's no just work hard

trueking:
Thank you dear, I just deliberately chose to ignore such comments, or the aim here would be defeated, I am typing this from the office so i cannot ask people to be lazy, I just want people to trust their situations into God s hands and draw closer to him, no matter the challenges they are going through, (me inclusive), if you are in PH and can make out time, please attend the ongoing "The power of Prayer" at any salvation ministries church near you.
Remain blessed.

You are asking people to pray yet you are in the office. What are u doing there? Why not go home and pray? Why waste your time to pray when u know u will still go to the office to work and face the same challenges with Muslims , pagans and atheists?
My friend choose one. It's either you pray and let God do the rest or u work hard and give in ur best. Combining the two actually means u don't so much trust in ur prayers.
If you still have to work hard after praying then you must accept with me that your prayer useless.

Pastafarian:
this is ad hominem, how do you know he's "poor"? holy spirit told you?

I understand his plight. It is beyond his imagination that i can actually make it without subscribing to his imaginary God.
Isn't it obvious that he is a sad man? Praying,fasting night and day, yet he is no different from those who don't​ care, now the best he can do is wish i was poor. Unfortunately his God has failed.

@analice if you know how many Christians i am feeding you will actually commit suicide.

analice107:
And, you the hardworking smart atheist/demon possessed, show your achievements which floors those of the lazy dumb believers.

You make noise but still poor.

Fuckkk off