₦airaland Forum

You are mixing two things. I have been talking about the revolt in donbas not Crimea. Russia took crimea after the Ukrainian govt went rogue because it originally belonged to them and they knew Ukraine was going to kick out their naval base. US has done so in the past. Trump is even threatening to take over Panama canal?

Gbadebo19:
You claim to be versed in history abi, am wondering how you don't even know that what you are stating does not hold water.
Minsk agreement was signed in September 2014. Crimea was annexed in February 2014.
Definitely, it wasn't the lack of respecting Minsk agreement that made Russia to annex Crimea.
If it was, then the Minsk agreement should have come earlier before the annexation of Crimea not later. In that way, Russia can point to Ukraine not respecting the Minsk agreement as a justification. Hope you Gerrit....

Calm down. Agitations for secession are often a product of deep seated grievances and many people have criticised how even naija managed the Biafra crisis. When you used scorched earch tactics on something dialogue can solve, you will cause serious problems.

The Kiev regime brought to power through protest and coup should even be more understanding of the grievances of it's own protesting citizens. Instead they sent tanks into Mariupol, Odessa and others. It was only then that the separatist movement received support from Russia.

Gbadebo19:
Just listen to yourself. Grant Luhansk and Donetsk a little autonomy? Which sane country does that?
Let's begin with our own Nigeria.
We should also grant Biafra separatists and Boko boys some autonomy and negotiate with them, abi?
Once again, I am deeply ashamed of you. Accept my condolences....

No matter how you painted it, Ukraine was the party refusing to compromise due to western pressure. Russia has always been ready to use diplomatic means. When Ukraine refused to even obey the Minsk agreements that they signed, why would Russia not step in? Can America take all of that indignity from a neigjbour?

obedience4:
I am conversant with the atrocities in the donbass, it was committed by both sides of the divide, you can't dispute that pro Russian seperatists were also cupable.

The question is this which nation would sit idle and watch a armed seperatists movement fester in its territory, Russia started the whole debacle by publicly arming seperatists in the dombass and also further escalated the issue by giving recognition to an illegal break away by two sperate regions of the Ukrainian state.

Also seeing the war in the dombass wasn't favouring it's proxies. Putin up the tempo by invading Ukraine by its self, no matter how you paint it. A diplomatic situation would have been perfect but putin decided to plunged Europe into war.

It is a chicken and egg thing my brother, which one comes first?
Remember, the pro western regime in Kiev came to be as a result of revolt. Why were they so violent in cracking down on the revolt in the east?

They could have simply granted Luhansk and Donetsk a little autonomy and negotiate with them. It was the crackdown that brought in the Russian support for separatism.

In Syria all of you criticised Assad for cracking down on western and Gulf Arab sponsored protests so didn't you criticise Ukraine for same thing?

obedience4:
I am conversant with the atrocities in the donbass, it was committed by both sides of the divide, you can't dispute that pro Russian seperatists were also cupable.

The question is this which nation would sit idle and watch a armed seperatists movement fester in its territory, Russia started the whole debacle by publicly arming seperatists in the dombass and also further escalated the issue by giving recognition to an illegal break away by two sperate regions of the Ukrainian state.

Also seeing the war in the dombass wasn't favouring it's proxies. Putin up the tempo by invading Ukraine by its self, no matter how you paint it. A diplomatic situation would have been perfect but putin decided to plunged Europe into war.

I have attached the leading pages of the Amnesty international report on Ukrainian atrocities in the Donbas. This started happening long before the secession, civil war and Russian invasion. So tell me who started it?

obedience4:
Young lady, I brought you a screenshot from The UN and amnesty International, this are two independent bodies.
you can't dispute the very fact,that Russia is cupable in the forced deportation of Ukrainians to Russia.

Russia is trying to erase Ukraine heritage, the UN and Amnesty International reported that even in Russia held Ukrainian territory, civilians are given Russia passport, school curriculum are changed.

Stop defending a mass murderer putin

Great. Now that you have acknowledged that Russia has affinity for Ukrainians, every other thing you said here is bollocks.

Gbadebo19:
I doubt you understand anything from the article you posted.
I read it and if you look closely, it shouldn't be hard to come to the conclusion that it wasn't definitive.
Russia allowing Ukrainians into their country is not in any way a sign of humanity. The same Russia that massacres women and children in Bucha and Irpin? If Ukrainians went to Russia , it's simpky because there exists a sense of affinity between them. It's just like you comparing a war between Nigeria and Benin Republic and the Yorubas in Benin Republic came to settle in Lagos, does that mean Nigeria was humane? No. It's simply due to affinity. Your question of Israel allowing Lebanese into their country does not arise at all because the Israelites have always maintained that they do not share any affinity with the bastardized Arabs who are dubiously claiming Jewish ancestry of a million years ago. The affinity doesn't even exist.

Now, you answer my question.

What is the effect of the referendum that granted independence to Ukraine and drew the internationally recognised map of Ukraine?

Is it not a genocide?

Ovacoma:
Yu have to stop yelling genocide, ok?

Is Israel not holding on to Lebanese territory? There is a ceasefire in place. Has Israel withdrawn its troops?
Again, you said here that Israel is not fighting Lebanon and that is the reason why it should not take Lebanese refugees forgetting that earlier you had said that a country fighting another country cannot be in the position to receive refugees from that country.


You contradict yourself so much that you are becoming laughable. I used to respect your intelligence.

obedience4:
Some went on their own accord, does that dispute the fact that Russia is forcing thousands of Ukrainians to Russia, in conclusion the Russian invasion brought the crisis and forced Ukrainians to leave their homes either forcefully move to Russia or going to Russia on thier own accord, the bottom line is Russia is committing crimes against humanity by moving people at of their will to Russia.

Is Israel holding unto Lebanese territory?? The IDF is fighting the terrorist group hazebolla not the Lebanese people. There's no reason for Lebanese to seek refuge in Israel

Did you even read where I mentioned that western reports sometimes contradicts themselves and that this is an example of an anti Russian story? But even in an anti Russian story, they couldn't escape acknowledging that Ukrainians told them they went willingly to Russia. That is all the evidence I need. You continue to avoid answering my own questions.

Did anybody seek refuge in Israel from the countries Israel is fighting? Or does Israel even allow anybody from those countries? You can easily see who is more humane between Russia and Israel in these stories.

Gbadebo19:
Here is from the same article you posted. Why did you omit this part

Many stories of Ukrainians who have gone to Russia involve coercion, confusion, or doublethink. What happened to some of them may be a war crime.
How on earth does the above translate to a refugee or asylum seeker?

Did you even read where I mentioned that western reports sometimes contradicts themselves and that this is an example of an anti Russian story? But even in an anti Russian story, they couldn't escape acknowledging that Ukrainians told them they went willingly to Russia. That is all the evidence I need. You continue to avoid answering my own questions.

Did anybody seek refuge in Israel from the countries Israel is fighting? Or does Israel even allow anybody from those countries?

Gbadebo19:
Here is from the same article you posted. Why did you omit this part

Many stories of Ukrainians who have gone to Russia involve coercion, confusion, or doublethink. What happened to some of them may be a war crime.
How on earth does the above translate to a refugee or asylum seeker?

Many western media platforms are so good at telling tales that they forget how they contradict themselves. If you notice, it is equally western sources that we mostly use to refute western sources simply because of their inconsistencies. That only happens when someone is trying to lie. Now read the article below:

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2023/08/21/the-ukrainians-forced-to-flee-to-russia

'Most of the world was aware of Ukrainians fleeing the war for Western Europe, but millions travelled east. Some were forced to go. Others went because they have family in Russia, or see it as a familiar environment. But even these choices were often made because the Russian occupation effectively leaves Ukrainians with no alternative.'

Despite that this is an anti russian article it still end up showing that many Ukrainians went there of their choice.

Most of the Ukrainians going to Russia are Eastern or Donbas residents who are pro russia and are running away from the Ukrainian banderite nazis. It only requires common sense to figure it out.

Again, why are lebanese not running to Israel? Please answer me.

obedience4:
The question I asked where the Ukrainians given the right to choose??

🤣🤣🤣😂😂🤣🤣🤣😂🤣🤣
You are funny, seek safety from who?? Ukrainians are seeking safety from the same Russians who invaded there country.. does that makes sense to you??

So let say Ghana invades Nigeria and takes over kano. And kano residents are forced to move to Ghana, kano residents are seeking safety in Ghana, the same country who invaded their country 🤣🤣😂😂😂

The Ukrainians are tag Refugees because they are in Russia not because they are seeking safety in Russia..safety from who??

https://www.voanews.com/a/voa-exclusive-ukrainians-forcibly-transferred-to-russia-had-no-choice-/6727549.html

This link Is from Amnesty International

https://www.amnesty.org/en/petition/stop-the-forcible-transfer-of-civilians-in-ukraine-to-russia/


https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60894142

Russia is forcing thousands of Ukrainians civilian into Russia, and you are telling me they are seeking safety.

Ukrainian crimes started first even before any armed conflict started. You deposed an elected president and declared allegiance to the west, that's okay. Now the same right anti russian protesters of the maidan had was the same right that should be accorded pro Russian protesters of the Donbas. What did the US backed Ukrainian do? They sent in troops to harass common civilians
It was when they declared secession that Russia started helping them.

obedience4:
Please attach the link or proof to show how nazi Ukrainians destroyed muripol.

Are you serious, Russia is rebuilding annex cities,not just muripol alone
They are not building it because they love the city, but because they plan to keep it and integrate it into the Russian federation.

Did Russia backed separatist not also committed crimes in the Donbass??

So you even know Russia is rebuilding Mauriopol? Of all the places the US and Israel destroyed, which ones have they rebuilt?

Mauriopol is now a peaceful city.

Check out the videos done by Patrick Lancaster(American) during Russia's siege of Mauriopol. He conducted live interviews. Mind you the silly mainstream media like BBC and CNN had nobody there but relied only on the reports of the Ukrainian govt to do their own report. They never even considered that the Ukronazis would definitely lie or exaggerate.

obedience4:
Please attach the link or proof to show how nazi Ukrainians destroyed muripol.

Are you serious, Russia is rebuilding annex cities,not just muripol alone
They are not building it because they love the city, but because they plan to keep it and integrate it into the Russian federation.

Did Russia backed separatist not also committed crimes in the Donbass??

Do you actually read the things you type? Try doing that once in a while so you will know if it makes sense or not.

Gbadebo19:
You just exposed the fact that it later belonged to Ukraine by stylishly not having anything to say about the referendum that granted independence to Ukraine.

You are so proud of your nonsense. See wikipedia below:

A refugee, according to the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR), is a person "forced to flee their own country and seek safety in another country. They are unable to return to their own country because of feared persecution as a result of who they are, what they believe in or say, or because of armed conflict, violence or serious public disorder."[2] Such a person may be called an asylum seeker until granted refugee status by a contracting state or by the UNHCR[3] if they formally make a claim for asylum.

Notice the term...'seek safety'.

The Ukrainians in Russia are seeking safety. How does that translate to them being forced.

Mr Obedience, keep learning from me.

obedience4:
Refuges are person or group of persons who has been forced to leave their country in order to escape war, persecution, or natural disaster.

Refugees is a normal term used to define people who are living in another country,it doesn't matter if they were taken by there by their will or not. As long as they are currently staying in another country they are tag Refugees.

Stop sugar coating Russia crimes against humanity

How many times will I tell you that Ukrainian Nazis did much of the destruction. Have you seen how Russia is rebuilding Mauriopol? Can you do that to a city you hate.

The Ukrainian crimes in the Donbass are well documented, even by Amnesty international but I will post just a few links:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/sputniknews.in/amp/20230509/russia-remembers-2014-victory-day-massacre-in-mariupol-1872052.html

On 9 May 2014, the World War II Victory in Europe day, the Kiev regime sent nationalists and the heavily armed military to prevent the resident of the then-eastern Ukrainian city of Mariupol from holding a Victory Day parade.

The arson I mentioned actually happened in Odessa:

https://www.peoplesworld.org/article/the-odessa-trade-union-massacre-ten-years-later/

On May 2, 2014, heavily-armed fascist militia forces attacked the House of Trade Unions in Odessa, Ukraine. Trapped inside were demonstrators opposed to the right-wing government in Kiev that had been put in place in a U.S.-orchestrated coup just weeks earlier.

I have the Amnesty report on Donbas atrocities but cannot attach file. A simple Google search should bring it out.

obedience4:
Muripol is pro Russian... yet Russia destroyed 90% of the city to capture it.. imagine if they weren't pro Russian as you have claimed them to be..

I don't know anything about the arson crime you are talking about, kindly help us by bringing the link to the story.

Thank God you acknowledged that Crimea was in Russia and was indeed allocated to Ukraine as a gift. Every other thing you said is bollocks.

Gbadebo19:
I am really not sure you went to school. You are talking about a gift of the 60s when a referendum has been conducted after then that drew Crimea inside Ukraine. What you talking about? You don't allow Propaganda blind you even if you went to school.
Crimea was a gift.....agreed
What about the referendum that declared Crimea as part of ukraine when it was secceeding from Russia?

Bros, Google if your friend. If pro western sources that hate Russia could call them refugees who are you to say otherwise?

obedience4:
Ukrainians seeking refuge or forcely deported??

Do you study history at all? Crimea was a gift allocated to by Kruschev to the Ukrainian SSR under the Soviets as recent as the 60s. That is why people say it was not a part of Ukraine. Do you understand now or you need more tutoring?

Gbadebo19:
It's time to call is quits with you if this is your position. Crimea was annexed in 2014.
Who on earth annexes a territory that belonged to them in the first instance.

The intermediate ballistic missile oreshnik fired into Ukraine contained a non explosive warhead. This goes to show you Putin wanted to prove a point and not kill Ukrainians. Compare it to the actions of Americans and Israis and you will see that Putin is too soft.

Gbadebo19:
You are already getting insultive and trust me, if I begin with you, you won't come on this thread anymore.
Poootin stated his objective blah blah blah.
Are you nuts?
A person gave the order to fire an intermediate range ballistic missile into another country, you telling me it isn't war.
A person requested and got over 10,000 North Korean veteran solduers in his attack against another, you telling me it still ain't war. That is the largest and official number of soldiers any country has sent to the Ukrainian war.

Wait first, from which school did you graduate? Am curious

Please go and watch clips from 2014 when Mauriopol resisted an Ukrainian army sent in to punish them. It was one of the defiant cities. Mind you, it was in Mauriopol that banderite Nazis set fire to a locked building with hundreds of pro Russian civilians burning them to death, including women whilst the police looked away. (please swear that this incidence did not happen). Tell me, have the perpetrators been brought to justice?

I repeat again, Mauriopol is a pro-Russian city. If you have more counter evidence, come forward.

obedience4:
Ukrainians destroyed there own city, 🤣🤣😂😂🤣
Muripol is pro Russian, yet the Ukrainians defended the city till the very end, drawing wide praise from people around the world.
the muripol debacle that was widely covered, you want to twist it now.

You are the female version of that pillock Vic2023

If Russia was such a wicked country trying to destroy Ukraine, why are Ukrainians running to seek refuge there? Did you see the Lebanese running to seek refuge in Israel or did Israel host fleeing Gaza civilians?
Again, you twisted my words that I said Putin's words are 'storytelling' what I meant was that Putin was telling a story and it's actually a true story. Donbass and Crimea never belonged to Ukraine. I am only saying that story does not mean he wants to conquer Ukraine, which would have enjoyed their neutrality if they had not started conspiring against Russia.

You people should fear God abeg.

obedience4:
You no well,
Just because putin said he wants to spare Zelensky means the war is not a full blown war, so that makes the war in Ukraine a special operation. Jezz you the idiot that said putin words are story telling. Same you using putin words as a basis to further your propaganda.

Hosting refugees?? Please help yourself it is on record that Russia has forcely deported millions of Ukrainian citizens into Russia against there will, forcing people against there will is now hosting refugees??
Will there be a refugee crisis if Russia didn't invaded Ukraine??

Muripol and Bakhmut were destroyed early in the Ukrainian war, when the Ukrainian didn't have the ability to attack Russian territories, stop peddling lies b!tch

No deliberate targeting of civilians, yet thousands of Ukrainians have lost there lives, churches, hospitals, train stations, have all been attack by Russian forces,
So the UN that indicted putin for war crimes didn't do their home work.

Madam go tell someone stupid your propaganda not me.
The Israelis haven't mobilized or used the amount of men and material Russia has used in Ukraine in gaza yet Israel is at war Russia is conducting special operation.

If you think China has not been tested, read about the Korean war.

JohnSP99:
My brother don't deceive yourself with China's development of their Military, they can't even stand Iran, you know why, they have not been tried in any war. Winning a war majorly depends on intelligence gathering which the Chinese are very poor at. Even India will defeat them in battle, none of their war equipment has been tested in real war situation. They are only regarded because of the number of their standing army and number of war equipment but how well can they use it. And any nation that uses nuclear weapon in battle should be ready to receive too and they all know the implications of using nuclear in battle, so none of them would want to try it only to threaten to use it.

There are video reports from even western sources indicating that Ukrainian Nazis were involved in the destruction of Mariopol. The population of Mariopol is naturally pro Russian.

obedience4:
Please kindly tell us the difference between what Russia is doing in Ukraine and a full blow war??

Ukraine is not being destroyed right??
Muripol and other Ukraine cities were not destroyed. Na better clown you be.

1. In a full blown war, you don't say you are sparing the leaders of your enemy country (check out Bennet interview)
2. Russia hosts the largest no of Ukrainian refugees, over 2.9 million(crosscheck)
3. Russia did not touch Ukrainian infrastructure in the beginning but later discovered piecemeal due to provocations
4. There has been no deliberate targeting of civilians (crosscheck casualties with israel's genocide in Gaza)

obedience4:
Please kindly tell us the difference between what Russia is doing in Ukraine and a full blow war??

When it is Israel or the west attacking the western media reports it as 'people died in the bombing'. When it is Russia or any of their adversaries, its reported as 'Russia kills'. Who do you think you are whining?

Gbadebo19:
Their strike killed a soldier is different from the false narrative of "bomb the army"
Anyways, it's a free world, believe whatever you want.

How can you sit in your face me and face you and think you can allocate objectives to someone who has already stated his own objectives? The former prime minister of Israel, Bennet clearly stated in his interview how Putin assured him at the beginning that they were not touching Zelensky and they won't destroy Ukraine.

BTW, holding on to those lands is to have a guarantee and deterence because cocaine Zelensky will not agree to terms without been forced. If Zelensky disables NATO ambition today, disband the banderite Nazis, pull out troops from the donbass and gives security guarantees, Putin will agree to a ceasefire and may just give him part of his territory.

Gbadebo19:
You don't need to confuse yourself. Except you wanna lie to yourself, Russia is at war with Ukraine. The intention is clear...why is POOTIN insisting on holding seized lands before a talk?
Mind you, even the 20% is the joint work of separatists, Wagner and others....
Israel on the other hand was very clear.. disable Hezbollah. No intention whatsoever of occupying Lebanon and establishing a government which we all know Russia is out to do.
If Russia's action is not a war to you, then nothing in the world will ever be a war.

What has Putin's storytelling have to do with Russia's clearly stated objectives in Ukraine? Are you high? Also there are obvious differences between a full scale invasion and an SMO. Putin expressly stated that they didn't want to destroy Ukraine and they usually only respond to escalation. They didn't even touch the country's infrastructure until Ukraine started some annoying provocations. Anyways, how many percentage did Israel take from Gaza. I heard Hamas is still firing rocket after Israel's had destroyed it and killed tens of thousands. Which objective exactly has Israel achieved in Gaza apart from killing and destruction?

obedience4:
Putin has on record claim that Ukraine wasn't a state but part of Russia. Go and read putin reasons for the invasion of Ukraine and stop embarrassing yourself online.

Please what the difference between the SMO in Ukraine and a full blown war??

Answer yes or no. Did Putin announce that he wants to conquer Ukraine and take over its land?

Can you state the 5 reasons for the Russian invasion quoting an official Russian source? If the total takeover of Ukraine is not there then you are an idiot.

obedience4:
Putin has on record claim that Ukraine wasn't a state but part of Russia. Go and read putin reasons for the invasion of Ukraine and stop embarrassing yourself online.

Please what the difference between the SMO in Ukraine and a full blown war??

Except you want to lie to yourself, Israel is at war with Lebanon. Why did they bomb the Lebanese army?

Gbadebo19:
You don't need to confuse yourself. Except you wanna lie to yourself, Russia is at war with Ukraine. The intention is clear...why is POOTIN insisting on holding seized lands before a talk?
Mind you, even the 20% is the joint work of separatists, Wagner and others....
Israel on the other hand was very clear.. disable Hezbollah. No intention whatsoever of occupying Lebanon and establishing a government which we all know Russia is out to do.
If Russia's action is not a war to you, then nothing in the world will ever be a war.

Did Russia announce they have an intention of taking Ukraine? Did they say they are at war with Ukraine. It is a special military operation.
If they can take 20 percent in an SMO how much will they take in a full blown invasion?

Gbadebo19:
Did they have an intention of taking Lebanon?
Did they state that they were at war with Lebanon?

How many percentage of Lebanon did Israel take?

Gbadebo19:
Wake me up when they take up 20.1% of Ukraine.
Despite every nook and cranny you mentioned, it's still 20% for 3 years. And that's even thanks to the separatists, Wagner and more.... So much achievement for the best army in the world.