₦airaland Forum

HedwigesMaduro:
What about "give, and it shall be given unto you..."?

The question is, Give to who? Pastors? Church? Pastors use this scripture to mean 'giving' is giving to them thus monopolizing it.
That is not correct. You give to the poor and needy and it shall be given back to you, shaken pressed down and running over.

Ken4Christ:
See apprentice giving scores to his master. I back up every point with scriptures.

OK, tell me what is Abraham's blessing. Let me be your student for once.

Scriptures that you are interpreting like say u no go school. Just pouring trash that your pulpit thieves told you.

Gal 3:14
He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus,so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.

God promised to bless not only Abraham, in Genesis 12:1-3, but to also bless all the families of the earth through him. And in Galatians 3:13-14, Paul relates this blessing as being bestowed upon the Gentiles through the redemptive work of Jesus Christ on the cross. Many prosperity preachers interpret the Abrahamic blessing as prospering in material and financial abundance. They also assert that it is salvation through Jesus Christ that gives Christians, who are Abraham’s spiritual children, access to the Abrahamic blessing. But when these biblical passages mentioning the Abrahamic blessing were interpreted within the context of Paul’s understanding of the blessing and using a theological method of biblical interpretation that incorporates a synchronic method of biblical exegesis with the sub-method of lexical and syntactic analysis, you will find out that the blessing is that of sonship through Jesus Christ by virtue of the gift of the Holy Spirit and not material or financial blessing.

Ken4Christ:
You are in pre nursery in the school of the spirit. And you want to tutor me.

God made Abraham rich. His son Isaac was equally rich, Jacob was given wisdom to make wealth in spite of how his uncle tried to cheat him.

God gave King Solomon wealth.

We are the seed of Abraham and his blessing are ours.

It is true everybody cannot be rich. This is because not everyone is ready to do what it takes to be rich. Some people are very lazy. They are also profane. Quite a few others have foundational issues that can hinder them from getting rich.

The summary of my point is; God is not against the prosperity of his children. He has never been and will never be. He is only against those who hold tight to their wealth instead of releasing it to advance the course of the gospel and help the poor.

Christ gave his disciples the assurance of receiving hundredfold increase for every sacrifice made for his sake and the gospel. He made this remark after the young rich ruler couldn't follow his instructions to sell all he had and give to the poor.

Jesus was actually showing him the way to true wealth. Hence he said;

Mark 10:29-30
“Yes,” Jesus replied, “and I assure you that everyone who has given up house or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or property, for my sake and for the Good News, WILL RECEIVE NOW in return a HUNDRED TIMES AS MANY houses, brothers, sisters, mothers, children, and property—along with persecution. And in the world to come that person will have eternal life.
Mark 10:29‭-‬30 New Living Translation.

So, the rich man who could have received hundred times what he should have given to the poor.

This is Jesus teaching prosperity.

Apostle Paul also taught prosperity.

Apostle Peter did the same thing.

John the beloved said it was his greatest wish for us to prosper.

They may not have been wealthy because of the period they lived in. They suffered persecutions and many were killed. But they made us understand God's will concerning this subject.

True wealth does not come overnight. But if you keep doing the right thing, you will certainly get to the point where you will lack nothing.

Like I said b4, your grasp of scriptures is like 2 and a half percent.you think the blessings of Abraham we enjoy Is money and wealth. Lwkmd.. If u haven't learnt anything and corrected yourself from my reply and what @paulOtl wrote.. oboy leave it.. Because if you read what we wrote, u would not have quoted Mark 10:29-30 because the answer is there already. U are a lost case. @PaulOtl is not even up to 30 but see the wealth of knowledge he is pouring..
U dey form spirit filled. Common comprehension your spirit no fit teach you. Bye

PaulOtl:
I had to highlight the emboldened words, because they are absolutely beautiful and true!!
I like the truth and wisdom in those words. You see....a little here, a little there... Iron sharpens iron. No knowledge is lost or insignificant.
I'm gonna go back are read your write-up to the end , this time around. I had to rush to quote on those particular words, so as not to loose track and forget to do so.
But ermm...you and this Ken guy need to have some sort of amicable understanding on this thread. I get that you are knowledgeable...He too is, albeit with a different sense of reasoning when it comes to this earthly riches matter.
Neither of you is totally wrong. But there has to be clarity for the sake of others who are stopping by to read this thread for one reason or the other.

I used to believe that it was not godly to have affluence and riches, some years ago. I strongly held that notion. I used to try to ponder on why Jesus spoke about how difficult it will be for a rich man to enter into paradise (a rich man who lacks insight and wisdom) than for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle.
That calls for sober reflection, if one is a rich person. There has to be a reason God made that statement.
Now, why again did he suggest to the rich young man to sell off all he has and give to the poor and follow Him (Christ) to be as a disciple? Jesus must have known that money (in large proportions) would make the man's heart to be divided, distracted from executing the will of God thoroughly and properly. So he wasn't mete testing that rich guy, but actually hoping that he would see the wisdom in that instruction, and be moved by the words, and then on his own make the choice to sell his assets and follow Jesus (not necessarily walking off with him without going back to tend to his family and tell them of his decision to go with Christ, had it come to that).
Jesus loves family bond, so that verse shouldn't be read without understanding.

Notice that he didn't even tell the man to sell all he has and come and give to the fellow disciples, or/and give to Him (Jesus himself) for the sake of the propagation of the new gospel. Jesus didn't even suggest that, lest mockers (thousands of years later, e.g our generation) accuse him falsely of trying to milk the rich young man and take advantage of him for personal gains. Jesus has wisdom and understanding, so he knew what to avoid.

To touch more on whether true believers are meant to have excess riches, I would say ' it is dangerous to have excess wealth, but only if your level of understanding and relationship with God is not firm '
Next way I will rephrase the question is;
' Are we permitted by God to have and store up excessive amount of riches '. The answer, based on my understanding is YES. We are permitted to, but not encouraged to seek after riches. It is not sin, therefore we can say we are permitted to.
As for storing of these wealth, I will say NO! You are not meant to worry about tomorrow, or to think what you will eat or drink, as you cannot add more time to your life or a strand of hair to your by your worrying or will. So, we are supposed to have a spirit that directs us in all things and situations, to know when to store up monies for the work of the church (not limited to the physical building in this case) and when to distribute it out to the poor all around the world, not even just around your locality. That's who you know a true, genuine cheerful giver, who is a Christian (not by religion).
You will be troubled at heart daily to be moved to search for people to want to assist. The spirit of God will direct you , but only if He sees that you, in your heart, desire to seek out people to help on a daily (not even weekly) basis. He will never force you.

When I hear people with actual realtime monies amounting to 20 billion USD, I shake my head. Something must be wrong somewhere. You are not generously giving out. You think you are, but you aren't, and most of the time they know it. But they kill the conscience inside. That's for those who even try to listen to the voice of the Spirit, when it ministers to their own spirit to do what is right.

Genuine Christians are not the richest on planet Earth today, and will not be, not until the new world comes down from heaven as a bride.
The same scriptures tell us (scriptures is talking to believers and even born again people) that[b] " in the world, you will have difficulties, hard times, tormenting persecutions. But FEAR NOT! For I overcame the world "[/b] This was Jesus speaking. He did overcome the world.
God doesn't want us to dwell on working and toiling for the sake of acquiring riches. He knows majority of the earth lack true, God-filled understanding, so he allows them to spend their lifetime working and worrying and chasing after riches. He wants them not to feel as though He didn't accord them freewill. But people like Apostle Paul, Elijah, Samuel, Moses and others, had great understanding and they saw the wealth of the earth for what it really was - a burden to bear. But this server truth is not understood by most humans. It's kind of like an open secret, but it is despised, therefore not considered worthy of being appreciated as mysterious knowledge.
People want to chase after wealth. Let them do so. But at the cost of their peace of mind and their spiritual wellness. As spirit beings, this woke wealth thing (which is also an energy itself, and a spirit) weights us down and drains our power, due to the devotion we accord it. You know that you could be worshipping wealth by just pondering about it, by worrying about how much investments you have set up and trying to keep account of all of them, how much profit you're making or expecting in the coming months, and so on. These things are harmful to our Spirit-Man. But still not enough to septate a true believer from the love of God. But, it does weaken you , one way or another.
Neither is poverty any more dignifying. But there's a twist. Time will not permit me to go on and on, but theres a special kind of bind and love that God has for those who are poor. If you search scriptures well you will come across verses that talk about how God does not like the poor to be oppressed or cheated. Their cried reach heaven. You think he could not automatically make them rich since he so lives them?? That's where human wisdom stops it fails. God knows why. It's all a test. It's a grand experiment, which he already has seen the outcome from the beginning. But he is God and he can do what he knows is best for this experiment.
Of a truth, one of the saints in the Bible knew why he said to God, " I desire not to be rich, nor to be poor. But in all things, let me be pleased. " Therein lies wisdom, but only a few will admit it to be wisdom. The snares of riches will always try to burden your heart and life, and it wars with your spirit, all in a bid to test your faithfulness to God. Week I'm week out. Year in year out. It won't give you a break. That why God doesn't risk it for some people. He knows your threshold. And he knows the accusations the evil one will keep bringing up against you before the host of heaven. You might think it's not a sin , since you are ignorant about it, but the devil and the hosts if heaven might think otherwise. They might know that your ignorance doesn't make your actions or inactions, with all the riches you have been allowed to amass any less of a sin. And you stand guilty before God. So God knows why he doesn't allow certain people to have certain things.
We need to ask for more understanding as we walk through this journey of life. The mystery of God hasn't totally been revealed, as the Bible even states this. It will be revealed when the time comes and all will understand why this is like this and that is like that. Why tis was allowed in the world, and that wasn't. Then will all eyes be open and understanding complete (or at least near complete)

Very aptly said. Your wisdom is great.nothing to fault up there. The prosperity gospel in Nigeria is making people lose focus of what is important. Christ taught mainly about love and that is the one thing lacking in our churches.how do u have rich churches and poor members? How can you continue collecting from the poor that your name now appears on Forbes? These young ones now see your wealth as evidence that you will be wealthy as soon as u answer God's call to be a preacher.nobody is thinking about the life hereafter. Nobody is thinking about heavenly riches. every youngling wants to make money and be rich . It's what thier pastors and society tells them. If after sometime u cannot make money, u start cutting corners, engaging in Yahoo or rituals to make it. Funny thing is, with 5 churches on every street, where is the prosperity in Nigeria ?we are the poverty capital of the world. We go cap in hand to borrow from atheist nations, everyone wants to japa to the atheist nations that became successful not by opening 5churches on every street but by hardwork and innovation. How many born again dollar billionaires are there in the first world 100?how many spirit filled billionaires are there in Nigeria? can other nations call us blessed? I weep for how these young ones are often brainwashed to think being a Christian means you will be rich.. Being rich is not bad.work for it. Innovate,solve society's problem.. You don't need to know God to be rich. Ask the Chinese and Germans. These churches make our youths lazy by selling illusions of the hope of riches, misinterpreting scriptures to say what scriptures did not say.Christianity preaches contentment and not the vanity of wealth. If u want to be rich, ask dangote how.
Futhermore, I always advise Christians to try and read the Bible in its original language.. Hebrew,Aramaic and Greek. So as to get exactly what the writers meant. How can you base your faith on an erroneous translation of scripture. If you read my debate with the guy, you will see that kjv gives a narrative different from what nlt or Niv says.

Ken4Christ:
So, if you receive a cash gift in millions from a legitimate source, you will reject it? Please, answer yes or no.

Read my answer above to @paulOtl.
I am am sure you will Learn a thing or two

PaulOtl:
Brilliance! Just brilliant.
I wish I could, like, snatch your second paragraph out of the phone and paste in at the entrance of the city gate for all to see and understand these things.
Your riches is to edify the body of Christ, the Church. We are the Church, and kingdom services including helping the poor and using your resources to give them a glimpse of what the kingdom of God (Christian faith) truly feels and looks like.

We are not meant to look poor and haggard, but in all things there has to be understanding and moderation. Some will never be rich because God has already known their hearts and has seen that the richest will corrupt the and lead them further away from their first love which is supposed to be Christ. So, he won't give them that wealth they wish for, but he will still provide their needs and keep them from wallowing in poverty. He's a wise God after all.
He can give an unbeliever riches, and a devoted believer will not be given the grace to make wealth. But he knows what he is doing, and it's not that he feels the unbeliever deserves it more , but he's teaching the believe lessons of life, and maybe, also trying to avoid certain temptations from befalling the believer. It depends on God's wisdom and reasons.
But I Sha know that I'll be wealthy because he has seen my heart right from time and he knows the work for which he had called me to do right from my childhood (unknown to me back then). The cattle on a thousand hills all belong to Him. So says his word.
So, riches are his gifts. He will give as he deems fit.

Atleast you are better in understanding than the other guy. @ken4christ.but you are like 70%.
See,if you are rich, your riches should be used to help the poor and support the furtherance of the gospel of Christ.. Which is love.. Not religion. But everyone cannot be rich. Following Christ is not, and has never been a guarantee for riches.
However, the scriptures makes us know that we would not go hungry if we are not rich. You know why? Because those that have will give to support those that do not have.. Which was done like in the early church.

The people you call unbelievers will always be rich if they work hard and solve societies problems. As a 'believer'.. If u like pray 18hrs a day, you will still remain in poverty if you do not go out and workhard or use your head to solve societal problems. Worst case, rich 'believers' will contribute for u to eat, have accommodation and send ur kids to school. But you'll never be rich.
Christ even told us that the poor will always be amongst us.because he knows that not every believer knows business or can be rich. Some are lazy, bad at business and will remain so no matter what they do or the anointing they have.
Also, as you said, God can deliberately stop you from getting wealth, so as to save your soul.

finally, a true Christian can never be that rich.. U know why..? Because they will keep on giving out thier riches to the poor ones and they can never be rich.. Comprende?

The boy @Ken4Christ, his general understanding of scripture is like 3%�

Ken4Christ:
And his will is for us to prosper and be in health - 3rd John 2. There are overwhelming evidences to this truth.

The only thing is to know why God wants you rich. So that you can help support the work of the ministry and be a blessing to others.

Keep twisting scriptures to soothe ur corrupt mind.John wrote a letter to Gaius, praying and wishing him well.. How is that proof of God's will?

3 John 2
Dear friend, I pray that you may enjoy good health and that all may go well with you, even as your soul is getting along well.

U see ya self? U dey use KJV dey deceive yaself.

God might decide to leave you poor.. So? Will you fight him? Why did God leave the poor sick man at the gate to continue being poor and sick, yet he made heaven.. As opposed to the rich man that went to hell fire in the parable christ told?
Or Lol... Las Las.. It's rituals or yahoo for you.

Ken4Christ:
He became poor so that through his poverty, we might become rich - 2 Corinthians 8:9.

Please, have sense. You are the blind man here.

Why not choose to live in a mud house because you want to follow the example of Jesus. And when you buy a car, please buy a very old and worn car.

And you think 2 cor 8:9 means christ was poor so that you can become rich in earthly money? Lol... Hahahahahahaha
U don't want riches in heaven at all.? ... It's the earth's riches u want...

Answer me this one question pls sir, pls sir.. Who amongst the disciples and apostles became rich after following Christ.?your time starts now? U need lifeline? 50:50?

Hahahahahahah..
We have a God of this world(your father, Satan) . U can ask him for the riches he tempted christ with.. Hahahahaha

Like I said, I know u can't invent anything, neither are u a hardworking person.. My guy.. Na rituals oo.. Shebi ur parents are still alive.. I pity them.. Eyya

Ken4Christ:
Your problem is frustration. You don't know how to make money. You can't see yourself being rich. So, you want others to be like you. God forbid.

Lol.. It's a faceless forum. Poor people have the obsession of being rich. Rich people know it's no big deal. U Gerrit. If u don't Gerrit forgetabourrit

PaulOtl:
Facts! And there's a reason why he he made them gold. He knows good things and wants us to also enjoy the same, but in line with his will and His word.

I'm reading your back and forth with that other commenter. There are things to pick from them.

Why not go to heaven so you can atleast get the gold. You turn a blind eye to how are first pastors, the apostles lived. In rags, squalor, persecution. None of them became rich by following christ. Saul(Paul) was well to do.. A highly read Scholar.after following christ, Paul wrote
1 cor 4:11
To this very hour we go hungry and thirsty, we are in rags, we are brutally treated, we are homeless

Peter did not become a weathy fisherman after following christ.

I have this one scripture for you.

1 timothy 6:5

and constant friction between people of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth(I) and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain

Ken4Christ:
Your comments reveals your personality. You are an anti Christ. You don't mean good for the church.

When Jesus wanted to have his last supper, he requested for a good hall and it was given him. He did not go under a tree to eat with his disciples.

When he wanted to ride a donkey, he requested for the one no one has ever ride. He does not ride on tokunbo.

The streets of heaven are made of gold. God goes for the best. And he says his will be done on earth as it is in heaven.

People like you will prefer pastors to dress in rags while cultists put on good cloths.

It shall never be well with the person who brainwashed you to have this kind of evil mindset.

I will be stupendously rich. You can go and hug transformer. God punish Satan.

Lol.. You talk like a child.. Lol..

How many times did Jesus ride a donkey?was the donkey his regular means of transportation? Did Jesus or his disciples own chariots and horses? How many times did he use the upper room? Or are u having your last super? Did he own the donkey.?was Jesus and his disciples rich?christ should have helped Peter open a fish company with him as chairman of the board.. Lol. Did they live in palaces and mansions? Lol.. You don't want to be like Jesus or his disciples. You want what your father, the devil provides for his children.Riches, worldly power and glory etc

They have changed the polarity for you.. Jesus=riches, whilst devil=poverty.. Hahaha
The same devil that tempted Jesus with worldly riches and Jesus rejected.

Luke 9:58

Jesus replied, “Foxes have dens and birds have nests, but the Son of Man has no place to lay his head.”

You don't want to be like John the Baptist, wearing rags and eating termites, you don't want to be like Jesus, walking from place to place and preaching the good news, you don't want to be like Paul.. Broke atimes, beaten and imprisoned for the sake of the gospel.. You want to be like the old testament kings and persons.. Solomon, David, Isaac, Abraham etc
You want to be like the chief priest ciaphas that plotted to kill Jesus, he was rich and lived in a palace.. What a pity!

Like I said, if u want to stupendously rich,work hard or invent something. If you cannot.. Then do rituals. But if you lie and collect peoples money in the name of a heretic gospel, God will punish you and your generations even unborn

YOU ARE ANGRY, HOW CAN THERE BE NO MONEY FOR YOU IN CHRIST?
YOUR FATHER, SATAN, HAS BLINDED YOU FROM THE TRUTH OF THE GOSPEL. REPENT B4 IT IS TOO LATE

2 cor 4:4
SATAN, who is the god of this world, has blinded the minds of those who don’t believe. They are unable to see the glorious light of the Good News. They don’t understand this message about the glory of Christ, who is the exact likeness of God.

Ken4Christ:
You are dull of understanding. Please, go for deliverance. My God owns the silver and gold. And his word says that I am an heir of his kingdom. All that he has are mine.

May poverty slap you and your generation since you don't want to prosper.

1 timothy 6:5

and constant friction between people of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth(I) and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain


You are shocked. U can fathom following a God that will not give you money. That's why I said, it will be hard for you to repent. Your God is mammon.

Ken4Christ:
You said money was not mentioned in the parable of the sheep and goat. But it is implied. How do you feed the hungry if you don't even have enough to feed yourself? It still boils down to money. How do you cloth someone who is naked if you don't have money to buy clothes for him or her? How do you visit someone in prison or in the hospital if you don't have money to even pay for your transport fare to go there?

Money is good. It is good to have money. The scripture never condemned money. It only condemned the love of it.

Concerning the church, there is no meeting place that is cheap. Even if it's in a home, it's not cheap. The church needs a physical building because most homes are not large enough to accommodate the numbers of worshippers. And the number keeps increasing placing demand on the need for a bigger venue of meeting. So, it boils down to money.

You are so corrupted that it's only money that can enable you do anything. You God is money. The pentecostal churches actually worship money. You need money to show love to people.. How sad? All the non money explanations I did.. U jumped it over. U even need money to be a kind person.. What a shame.

Concerning the church, u say there is no meeting place that is cheap. Lemme ask u? Is an open football field expensive? Under a tree nko? Primary schools nko?online nko? U just look for excuses to worship your God, MONEY.

Ken4Christ:
I agree with you that Apostle Paul was referring to the poor. But specifically, he was referring to the poor Saints in Jerusalem who brought the gospel to them. He was encouraging the church in Corinth to make good their pladges to these saints.

Apostle Paul had written a first letter to them instructing them on how to give their contributions weekly for these ministers of the gospel. It is what is called prophetic offering or seed today. It was practiced in the early church.

Hear what Paul had instructed them in his first letter;

1st Corinthians 16:1-3
1 Now concerning the COLLECTION FOR THE SAINTS, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye.

2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, AS GOD HATH PROSPERED HIM, that there be no gatherings when I come.

3 And when I come, whomsoever ye shall approve by your letters, them will I send to BRING YOUR LIBERALITY UNTO JERUSALEM

Notice, Apostle said they should give as God has prospered them. You see the emphasis on prosperity again here. And he said that it is God who prospers them.

In verse one, he said he gave the same order to the church in Galatia. And in his letter to them, he wrote;

Galatians 6:6 Let him that is taught in the word COMMUNICATE UNTO HIM THAT TEACHETH IN ALL GOOD THINGS.

In other words, members who receive instructions from their spiritual teachers should learn to give back to them in all good things. And it didn't exclude money because money is good.

Apostle Paul in his letter to the church in Rome wrote:

Romans 15:25-27
25 But now I go unto Jerusalem to minister unto the saints.

26 For it hath pleased them of Macedonia and Achaia to make a certain contribution for the poor saints which are at Jerusalem.

27 It hath pleased them verily; and their debtors they are. For IF THE GENTILES HAVE BEEN MADE PARTAKERS OF THEIR SPIRITUAL THINGS, THEIR DUTY IS ALSO TO MINISTER UNTO THEM IN CARNAL THINGS.

The passage above affirms my submission that the poor saints Paul was referring to in his letter to the church in Corinth were the ministers of the gospel.

And he is telling the churches that it is their duty to give back to them in carnal things. Carnal things includes money also.

Even our Lord Jesus established this same principle when he sent out his disciples to preach. He told them;

Matthew 10:9-10
9 Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses,

10 Nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: FOR THE WORKMAN IS WORTHY OF HIS MEAT.

In other words, he is telling them that their needs will be met by those they minister to. God will ensure that their labour will not be in vain.

So, God wants us to support the poor. He also wants us to support his servants doing the work of ministry. And we can't do that if he doesn't prosper us.

I will be so rich that I will pay Pastors salary who are not even under my ministry. I will give some of them free houses to live in. I will off course minister to the poor amongst us. And I can't do it if I don't have money. But the money will come in the mighty name of Jesus. Not even the devil can stop it.

I'm getting tired of explaining things to you. Lemme make it short.
1.who told you tht contributions done to the early church(not pastors) is prophetic offering or seed? Lol.. These Pastors ehn.. God will judge them. Lol. Read Niv for better understanding. Paul encouraged the church to contribute and elect messengers to take the gift(note the word gift) to the church or the lords people in Jerusalem. (note:the lords people are the members of a church.. Not the pastor)
2.You see why the KJV is a heretic Bible? It is politically construed to suit a certain narrative.. Now read 1 cor 16:1-3 in Nlt or Niv and show me where Paul used the word "As God Prospereth". Paul never said that.. It's ur mistranslated KJV by our colonial masters that did. Now I see where your confusion is coming from. That's why it's advisable to read scriptures in its original language and not heretic translations like the KJV.
3.Gal 6:6.a brethren comes to my town to preach, am I not to accommodate, feed him and give him transport back?if someone came to do a free training on data science where I live, can't we guarantee his accommodation, feeding and transport expenses? It's logical. Stop twisting it to mean that they must be paid. Being a pastor is not a job.besides if u read Nlt or Niv.. The word share is used.. Not pay.
4.read Romans 15:27 in Niv, you will see the definitive word.. SHARE... Not give.paul is simply saying that if a brethren share spiritual knowledge with you that it makes sense to aslo share your material things with him.. I mean.. Why not? In Christianity, we share.. Not like u have to pay. Is there any blessings attached to it.. NO. Will u make heaven by it, NO(unless they are poor and needy)
5.Romans 15:25-27 read in nlt or Niv for understanding. The poor saints are not the Ministers of the gospel(pastor) but the poor church members that evangelized to the gentiles in the early church.read again. Dump KJV.
6.matt 10:9-10.offcourse,when going on evangelism, what they give you, you collect... Thats what christ is saying... Not that they must give you(are u a thief?) you need to understand that thier labor being in vain is that they will not make the kingdom of God and not tht they will not make money.. Like I said, you will need to be delivered of this your money perspective toward the gospel.
Are u saying that since you aren't rich that you cannot help the poor?
That you want to be rich is not bad. Just work for it or invent something like Mark Zuckerberg, Elon musk etc and don't deceive people to give it to you like your pastors(oyedepo, adeboye, oyakilome and Co) are doing. Now if God doesn't want you to be rich nko? I mean the yahweh.. Not the moneygod mammon. mammon will always want you to be rich, so that you can follow him to the lake of fire.

Ken4Christ:
How do you give to the needy when you do not have. It boils down to prosperity. If someone who is poor has an urgent need and calls you for help, you can only assist when you have. So, you have to prosper for you to give.

Yes the church is a spiritual body but it does need a physical building to function. And that building has to be rented or built. If rent expires and the church does not have money to renew, they will definitely be given a quit notice. But if we have wealthy brethren who are willing to give, it won't happen.

It is the will of God for us to prosper both as individual and as a church. Hence John wrote;

3rd John 2 Beloved, I wish above all things that THOU MAYEST PROSPER and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth

Your theology is upside down. But I don't blame you. U belong to the majority whilst narrow is the way.
If you read Matthew 25:31-46.money is not mentioned. They mentioned you gave me drink, took me in, gave me something to eat, clothed and looked after me, visited me in prison etc
You don't necessarily need money to show love. Common Words of encouragement can lift a person's spirit. You can even reach out to people that can donate for a person's well being.you can be kind to them.you can sit and chat them up, You can help them carry thier stuff etc
But it's only money that ur mind goes to.
If u read psalm 42:1
It says
Blessed are those who are kind/considereth/have regard for the poor,
the Lord shall deliver them in times of trouble.

You can see again that money is not mentioned. Instead that you should consider the poor.. Help them get justice, let them withdraw first,consider them....

The physical church building is not important. It is the same reason Stephen was stoned to death, when he told the jews that God does not live in temples built by human hands. Read acts 7:48.
The church is a spiritual one. You can meet with the brethren at any place. You think it's by building big cathedrals? but the real church(the people) are hungry. Why put rent burden on poor church members. The church does not have to meet at a specific place.the place of meeting is not important. Infact, Now it is easier, you can meet online.
We are the temple of God and christ is the corner stone.

How is John's mere wish what God wants? God is more concerned about the after life. Your soul.
Paul had a thorn in his flesh and God did not heal him for a reason. Maybe to stop him from being proud. The apostles were hungry atimes, were beaten, God did not intervene.. Even when they were killed. God can decide to make you not to be rich especially if you don't have self control so that you don't miss his kingdom. Same thing with your health.

You need to repent from your false teachings

Ken4Christ:
I quite agree that the focus of Jesus was giving to the poor. He could not have talked about ministry at that time because the church ministry was yet to start. In any case, there are ministries who also take care of the poor.

What we should emphasize therefore is that ministries remember to have plans for the poor brethren in their midst and not to play down on the need for them to have money.

And Jesus will definitely want his church to move forward and money has a role to play in propagating the gospel.

The problem you are still having is thinking that the church is a physical one.you are just twisting scriptures to fit your narrative. When christ himself has told you that he will separate the sheep from the goats and the only criteria used will be those who gave to the needy....
Giving to the needy for you must be money Because corrupt minds who always think of finance and will distort facts to please thier master.. Satan. Imagine the heresy that christ emphasizes on money as you put it.. Blasphemous and heretic

Ken4Christ:
But he became poor to make us rich. As it is written;

2nd Corinthians 8:9 For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, THAT YE THROUGH HIS POVERTY MIGHT BE RICH.

The way you condemn money as though if you have a legitimate way to make more money, you will not jump at it. Money is good. What we should be discussing is the proper way to manage it.

If the church has more than enough, it can do things that will advance the course of the gospel and even help the poor brethren in their midst.

The fact that people died for preaching the gospel doesn't mean everybody must die that way. If we all die that way, who will do the work of the ministry?

I personally condemn how so many ministers who are wealthy today neglect the poor. But there are some who remember the poor.

It is my earnest desire and prayer that the church will constantly have plans for the poor brethren amongst them.

2nd cor 8:9..people with corrupt minds that think of nothing but riches use these verse to justify thier greed.
Read in context. Start from 2 cor 8:1(nlt) Paul talks about being rich in the act of generosity. He hammered on giving to the needy ones to share equally.
U pick one line from Paul to justify your greed. Without looking at the context.you skip the raw fact that the disciples and apostles were not rich.. Ur brain refuses to see that one... So u goto Abraham and Solomon to justify your satanic greed for riches

Christ did not promise prosperity and riches to anyone. No.. Not At all.
Do you know who promised prosperity and riches in the NT? Satan. When he tempted Christ in the wilderness.

NOW, LEMME EDUCATE YOU.
CHRISTIANITY PREACHES CONTENTMENT AND SHARING EQUALLY TO ALL THE NEEDY BRETHREN. IT'S ONLY SATAN THAT PROMISES YOU RICHES IF YOU FOLLOW HIM.

YOU THINK THE PROSPERITY GOSPEL IS OF CHRIST? LOL... OVER SATAN DEY WORRY UNA

Ken4Christ:
How does the defending the fact that we ought to be rich become darkness? God made Abraham rich. He prospered Isaac. The children of Israel were fruitful. King Solomon gathered gold like dust. So, why should it be different for us?

God is not planning to make us rich. He already did. In his mind, he has given us all that we need for life.

All we need is to discover kingdom principles to make wealth. And it is only a wealthy man that can help the poor.

I will be so rich such that I will empower millions of people who are poor. And God will be glorified by it.

Don't you want to have more than you currently have? Do you enjoy poverty? How do you feel when someone comes to you to ask for help and you are unable to help?

People like you who think nothing more.. Just money, will interprete every scripture to match what your God of money(mammon) prefers.
Question 1.was Abraham, Isaac and Solomon, Christians?
Question 2..are u a king like Solomon? Shebi there was 1 Solomon in Isreal and not all Christians.. Lol

Why not say.. God prospered Peter, James, John and they gathered gold like dust, rode chariots and had several companies in thier name.

U see the problem with u guys? Cherry picking. When u want to talk about wealth, u leave Christian scripture and go to old testament to justify it. When u want to talk about being born again, u pick from the new testament... Lol

If in 2022 people like u believe in antiquated kingdom principles of wealth, then its a shame. No wonder we are the poverty capital of the world. How many kingdom principled persons are in the first 100 richest people in the world? Tell me.
With all your kingdom principles,you remain poor whilst your pulpit bandits make Forbes list... Hahahahah.. When will we have sense in this country?
Everyone in Nigeria is a criminal, if u have rich people in your church, all are from criminal activities.. Bribery, corruption etc... Not any stupid kingdom principles. Or who are doing the stealing in government.. Moslems?

Ken4Christ:
It was not an advice. It was an instruction. And he says that brethren who are in the habit of abstaining from church meetings are committing willful sin. He further went to emphasize that such attitude will not go unpunished. Read the entire passage very well;

Hebrews 10:25-31
25 NOT FORSAKING THE ASSEMBLING OF OURSELVES TOGETHER, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

26 FOR IF WE SIN WILFULLY after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

27 BUT A CERTAIN FEARFUL LOOKING FOR OF JUDGMENT and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

29 Of how much SCORER PUNISHMENT, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.

31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

From the passage above, those who habitually abstain from church meetings will be judged. And their judgment will be more severe than those under the law who despised Moses.

Fear God and live by his word. Every instruction contained in the New Testament should be followed by those who profess to know God. It is this same word that God will use to judge us on the day of reckoning.

Just as Apostle Paul wrote;

Romans 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ ACCORDING TO MY GOSPEL.

You see why I say people should read the Bible in Niv or Nlt. King James which is mostly erroneous writes its English in a way that it's hard to understand. Or maybe u just lack understanding. The Bible should be read in context. U carry one line from hebrews 10:26 to mean he is talking about Hebrews 10:25.lol
Read from Hebrews 10:1-36 (Nlt) to get the context of the message. Paul recounted how priests had to do sacrifice upon sacrifice to cleanse thier sins. But that now, we have a high priest that shed his blood once for our sins.
He advised about doing good works and shunning sin. There is no way he said forsaking the gathering of the brethren is sinful. He emphasized on the sinning he spoke earlier.
The thing is, most of your pastors are not soundly educated that's why they teach you scriptures upside down. No where he said those abstaining from gathering will be judged.read again from Hebrew 10:1 to get the context of sinning.. You speak heresies bro. You've been brainwashed

Ken4Christ:
Our Lord Jesus emphasized money. This is why he told a young rich ruler to sell all he had and give to the poor. He didn't ask him to give away his goods the way they were. He said, sell and give.

He also said it to all in Luke 12:33. He said, sell what you have and give alms.

Money has more value than materials or items. So, he wants us to give something of value.

Guy, the way u twist scriptures to say what they do not say is scary.
. How come christ did not tell him to sell all his wealth and give the money to the church?or to him?.

This your quote is straight from the devil..

"Money has more value than materials or items. So, he wants us to give something of value".

Can you imagine? Do you know that some items aren't transferable but money is? CHRIST NEVER EMPHASIZED ON MONEY,CHRIST WAS NOT WEALTHY ON EARTH NEITHER WERE HIS DISCIPLES.INFACT HIS DISCIPLES BECAME POOR, WERE IN RAGS, BEATEN WHEN THEY CHOOSE TO FOLLOW CHRIST.THEY DIED PAINFUL DEATHS.

That you worship your money god(satan or Mammon) does not mean you should blaspheme.. May God forgive you

Ken4Christ:
I am already in the kingdom of light and darkness can't find access here.

If the light u think u have is darkness,then your darkness is very deep.
It's easier to convert a self acclaimed sinner than someone deceived into thinking he belongs to 'the kingdom'.. Where ironically, he is a sure hell fire candidate

Ken4Christ:
When Apostle Paul wrote letters to the churches, he made mention of churches that meet in homes. He gave them recognition.

Besides, when our Lord Jesus wrote letters to the churches in Asia Minor, he addressed it to the Pastors placed over them in the respective communities. He called them angels. This is giving recognition to the individual churches.

And the writer of Hebrews said that we should not forsake the assembly of ourselves together. The assembly certainly can't be under one roof. You have to identify with one and Fellowship regularly.

The writer of hebrews is Paul. He only adviced that we should meet as brethrens. How is an advice a mandate or a law of God?
Do you not recognize ur superiors at the office?
A Pastors place is purely administrative. In the eyes of God we are all equal.we are all priests under one high priest, Christ. Leave the lies your pastors are telling you that they are special b4 God.they are not.
Meeting as a church is advisable to build one's faith afterall, iron sharpeneth iron. Is it compulsory? NO.

And for your information, Jesus did not write letters to churches in Asia Minor. Paul did.

Ken4Christ:
Being part of the local church is scriptural. You can't be a sheep without a shepherd. I will enlighten you more later.

SMH. U need to be delivered from darkness in the form of light

waldigit:
But there is no emphasis on what to give. We lost it because we materialized and monetized everything that has to do with giving and blessings especially in Nigeria. We even categorize what we get in return based on what we give. If one can give non material but another can give material. The material giver get the best blessings and he is the greatest giver. An oil company worker who pay fat tithes becomes title holder in the church faster than the self employed who pays little from his little private practice. I am an insider I know the system inside out . This is where we got it wrong. We are all witness of where it has led us to today. He who have ears let
him hear what the Spirit is telling the church.

The better question is.. Who to give... Church? Pastors? The needy. This is were the scam happens. Churches equate giving with giving to them.. Which is the lowest form of giving

Ken4Christ:
Being part of the local church is scriptural. You can't be a sheep without a shepherd. I will enlighten you more later.

Being part of a local church is scriptural you say?(show me where christ mandates that u must be part of a local church to make heaven.. Pls show me). Slaves obey your earthly masters is also scriptural.
Of what use is being part of a local church when you will still go to hell fire?
That's the problem with you. You are brainwashed. Which church did the thief on the cross attend? Which church did the Ethiopian eunuch attend?
That I attend extra-mural classes does it mean I will pass Jamb more than someone that studies for Jamb at home?
The only shepherd I know is Christ.ur pastors as middle men are not important.. Infact if care is not taken they will block people from entering heaven of which they themselves will not enter.

Ken4Christ:
Before I continue discussing with you on this subject, please are you born again? And are you committed to serving God through a local church? If you are not, whatever I say won't make sense to you. I have evidences from the New Testament that supports this principles of honouring men of God. But it's no use trying to unveil them if you are not part of the kingdom.

I used to be like you before. I used to attend a local church where I was brainwashed to think that I am commuted to serving God through them, or that I am part of the 'kingdom' like you called it.
But now I know better. You do not even need to attend a local church to serve God.
You think being born again is doing altar call, where u accept christ as your personal lord and savior but u still go back to follow the laws of Moses. You disobey christ all the time but you claim to be born again because u attend a local church and they declare u born again... Hahahahaha.
You really need to see the light.

About honoring men of God. It is not an instruction from christ or God. 1 timothy 5:17 is Paul advising that elders deserve double Honour.
Even in your office or school, don't u Honour your boss or teacher? It's common sense. How these charlatan pastor interpret it to mean honoring them with money is laughable.
What I am saying will not make sense to you cos you've been brainwashed from birth. I pray to God ul be delivered oneday and the light will come to you.

Ken4Christ:
First fruit is a principle that has been there hundreds of years before the Law of Moses was given.

It simply means that the first belongs to God. The first person who practiced it was Abel even though it was with animals. The scripture says;

Genesis 4:3-4
3 And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD. note

4 And Abel, he also brought of the FIRSTLINGS OF HIS FLOCK and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering.

This was why the Lord respected his offering. Cain who was into farming was supposed to bring his firstfruit but he did not. And his offering was rejected. In the process of time, his lineage was wiped off.

It only became part of the Law of Moses but it was practiced even when there was no law by Abel.

Tithe also started before the Law was given. Abraham gave his Tithe to Melchizedech who was the priest at that time. And he is likened to Christ because he has no beginning of days nor end of days.

All these are divine principles that triggers financial prosperity.

Giving is not done only for the poor. The scripture instructs that we should minister to servants of God placed over us;

Galatians 6:6 Let him that is taught in the word COMMUNICATE UNTO HIM THAT TEACHETH IN ALL GOOD THINGS.

Even our Lord Jesus was ministered to by some women;

Luke 8:1-3
1 And it came to pass afterward, that he went throughout every city and village, preaching and shewing the glad tidings of the kingdom of God: and the twelve were with him,

2 And certain women, which had been healed of evil spirits and infirmities, Mary called Magdalene, out of whom went seven devils,

3 And Joanna the wife of Chuza Herod's steward, and Susanna, and many others, WHICH MINISTERED UNTO HIM OF THEIR SUBSTANCE.

Time will not permit me to say more. All the kind of giving are scriptural and the principles still applies. But if you are not born again, you will certainly not understand them.

The problem you have is thinking that all what is scriptural is also Christian. That's your major problem.. And I do not blame you totally.. But I put the blame on our unlettered pastors in Nigeria.
Why not give your first son for sacrifice since u are following old, dead and expired so called principles in the old testament. I guess the word 'old' doesn't mean much to you.
Tithe before the law was given once by Abraham not from his wealth but a loot which he returned the remaning 90% back to the owners . Lol. Is your pastor a melchizedek?ur pastor has no beginning and end? Is your pastor equivalent to a priest? Do u know the requirements of being a priest under the old law? Did christ who is in the order of melchizedek collect tithes? Did he appoint pastors to collect on his behalf? Which tithe was christ reffering when he rebuked the pharisees in matt 23:23.. Was it the law or before the law tithe? Hahahahah. Guy, u have been scammed.
Yes Scripture old and new supports giving to help God's servant.. It's logical.is it compulsory? No. It is the logical thing to do.do u give to ur parents or children because u are expecting something in return?
In Nigeria, we abuse everything. How can ur poor church members that u should be giving to, give u so much that u now make Forbes list. Where is the love of christ in u?
That Jesus was supported,is there anywhere in Christian.. Not Jewish scriptures that said Joanna and Co were blessed for supporting Jesus ministry?gifts of love do not guarantee any blessings.
Is there anywhere in Christian not jewish scripture that says giving to 'God' servants can bless you and make u inherit Gods kingdom?
Now what is the most important form of giving? Is it not that which will make u inherit Gods kingdom? Why does ur pastor not preach that? U know why? Don't u?
I showed u where giving to the poor was the only criteria for making heaven. Show me where giving money(not water, food) to a church or pastor(not a needy one) attracts blessings or eternal life in the words of christ our lord and savior.
Nigerian churches are the leading source of hell fire candidates.how can u tell someone redeemed in christ to go back and follow old testament principles like tithing, first fruit , seed sowing scam etc just because u love money thereby putting millions of persons under the law of sin and death.. Tufiakwa

Ken4Christ:
Please don't call me names. You don't know me from Adam. I am a balanced teacher of God's word. I equaly condemn those who only collect and make themselves rich and don't give back to help the poor in their midst.

However, the truth of the gospel must still stand. Below are different areas we are supposed to give to according to the scriptures;

1. Firstfruit offerings
2. Tithes.
3. Special seed offerings.
4. Vows
5. Regular offerings
6. Prophetic seed.
7. Giving to the poor or needy.
8. Freewill offerings
9. Altar Offerings.

Details of each of these kinds of giving will be available soon on a new thread.

My brother.. U have been scammed.. Brainwashed. The only type of giving In Christianity that even guarantees a blessing an and a place in heaven is to the poor. All the nonsense u itemized up there has no place in Christianity. Read Matt 25:31-46,u will understand.
First fruit.. Expired old law
Tithes.. Expired.. A sin
Special seeds.. Ur pastors conciction
Vows.. Old law.. Expired
Regular offerings.. Not compulsory
Prophetic seed.. Scam
Altar offerings.. Scam,old law. We are the temple and altar.

Ken4Christ:
Prosperity is sure biblical. It depends on the way it is presented and the motive behind the person teaching it.

Jesus taught prosperity. He said;

Luke 6:38 Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.

The question is.. Give to who?.. It's this loophole that people of corrupt minds like u and your pastors exploit to extort gullible members... Luke 6:38 speaks of giving to who? Is it pastors? If u read in context, from verse 37 talks about what u do to others that will be done to you. If u give to those in need. It will be given to you, pressed down and shaken...

U see yaself? 419

suicidesheep:
U said nothing but facts, especially the part about christ embassy folks, their GO keeps displaying foolishness every single time. I wonder how someone who doesn't think with his ass can look up to a man like him

Apt

Sixfiguresmart:
There is no reason why a gate can stop someone who is inside from going inside. It only stops someone outside from coming in and someone inside from going outside. The Church in question is the dome of hell. In fact, let me ask you, do you include the Synagogue Church in this church that you are parading?

You use Church at your convenience. Why church are you referring? We have Church of Satan. They are all identified as church. If the gates of hell cannot prevent your church, what then, is preventing it in Sambisa? what is preventing it in Saudi Arabia?

He's mute now. He cannot comprehend

Ken4Christ:
The gates of hell cannot prevail against the church. It has never and it will never.

The church is not the shrine you visit on Sunday.the gates of hell has long been the church u guys attend. U guys are too many in your falsehood.. No wonder the Bible says.. Narrow is the way.

And FYI.. Rwanda is the fastest growing economy in Africa today.