donnie:
. That's not possible, I speak form experience.

Facepalm

If there isn't much detail provided, we should stick with that which was provided or at worst speculate, rather than draw baseless conclusions.

I'm sticking to the literal interpretations of the story as presented in all its source materials. And the conclusions I've made are perfectly reasonable and within the realms of logic and common sense

kindly show passage where the land of Moabites was promised them.

This is an easy(R) thing in the eyes of the Lord; he will also deliver Moab into your hands.

Please indulge me and tell me your understanding of this verse

elated177:


Ehehehehe!

I sense bitterness in this laugh

No need for the back and forth. I have made my points.

You haven't made jack here, bub

The genuine seekers can read and decide for themselves.

Then let them decide. Let the objective, honest, intelligent and unbiased decided for themselves

It is all about the honour of the One who owns me.

You're a slave to your imaginations. I knew that much already

Now, let's bring it home

Home?

Is the abominable Chemosh your god?

I worship no Gods

[s]

If not, who/what is your god or goddess? What is his/her name? What are his/her requirements? What can he/she do through you?

[/s]

Are you of the opinion that I should leave the one and only true God, YHVH Almighty, the Father of the spirits of all flesh? What or who are you offering me in his place?

I'm of the opinion that events in your Bible indicate that more than one God exists. And that the God you worship is certainly not more powerful than the other Gods worshipped in the Bible

It's none of my business if you want to keep worshipping your God.

UyaiIncomparabl:


My dear, leave this your westernized mindset in that abroad that you are in. Over here, we are Africans and we should behave like one. We are gradually throwing away our heritage and culture as of old in the name of feminism.

Men are by nature, total providers. Women will just assist when it's necessary. That's how I was taught and I adore the teachings. It has served me well. Even the Bible and Holy Quran command that a man should be 100% a provider in his home. It's just that our heritage has gone to the dogs and men of nowadays are so lazy and looking for working-class women so they will stop working and leech off them. I can't be that woman.

So, who are you a mere mortal to disobey God's commandment when he has stamped it?

Just get your acts together and start doing better. Or you just stay put forever there in that your abroad and be with whitey. Better learn to open your hand. Aka chi chi chi is not good.

Lol. Look at this ignorant rubbish. You haven't got a clue what you're talking about, no offense intended.

Seeing as we all grew up in a patriarchal country like Nigeria, I can understand and empathize with many of your points. However, you've failed to realize that the patriarchy you grew up in has resulted in your tendency to believe and think that a man being the sole provider is the natural state of affairs (especially if this prejudice is reinforced by religion, which you demonstrated in your closing paragraphs).

Now, let's go back to the theory of evolution

When you look at related species like chimps and gorillas, it's clear that human patriarchy has analogues in the male dominance of such species (since their behavior is governed by evolution, and thus by what is advantageous - in their environmental context). When we investigate why, we find that males are simply stronger and better defenders of their offspring, as well as their family/tribe/social group. Clearly, some of that applies to us as well. As a result, men are typically larger, stronger, and more aggressive than women.

When you consider those issues, you'll see that "patriarchy" has benefited us in our evolution, just as it has benefited other male-dominated primates. Females must nurture their infants; males are then free to specialize in strength and protection to some extent. But equally, it is weaker in us. Our males are not as divergent from our females as in gorillas or chimps. And do you know why?: It is because we are thinking beings, and our success is more from thought - weapons and how to use them; food and how to grow it, for example - than from brute strength.

Disentangling the complexities can be hard. However in general, the more a society depends on brute force (especially, warrior societies), the more likely we are to see rule by the physically strong, i.e. men. Once such a setup is in place, it can be difficult for women to "recover", so to speak: those in power tend not to give it up, and also tend to teach the required conventions to their children (so boys grow up expecting to be heads of their households, while girls grow up expecting to be dutiful wives: a disparity helped by differential education).

^^^^^THIS is not our natural state of affairs.

The days when physical strength and aggression was key to survival are long gone. It takes little strength to pull a trigger, compared to the thrust and parry of sword and spear. It takes no strength to win in a world where success comes from the mind

Men being dominant and all that stuff made sense when the cultivation of warriors from neighbouring villages was necessary for survival, including that of the women. It makes no sense when we have achieved a civilisation based on individual rights, the function of the mind, and the rule of law bringing force under objective control. We have evolved past all that

Suffice to say, your mindset is outdated. Stuck in the ancient times.

donnie:

1. I'm not a Christian

Interesting

2. No it's not about having or not having faith. Many details were left out of that passage, besides obvious ones like how exactly and in what form did the "indignation" (anger) manifest against Isalele/Israel; And if the indignation was from YAH against his people, WHY? Etc.

I think it's reasonable to conclude that it was from the Moabite deity. It wouldn't make sense for Yahweh to promise the Israelites victory, only to sabotage their victory eventually. And if Yahweh really was pissed at his people, what could have made him angry?

wondering how you came about that.

Lemme put it in the form of a question. Why couldn't Yahweh defend the Israelites when the divine wrath (Most likely Chemosh) came upon them?

2 Kings 3:25
[25]And they beat down the cities, and on every good piece of land cast every man his stone, and filled it; and they stopped all the wells of water, and felled all the good trees: only in Kirharaseth left they the stones thereof; howbeit the slingers went about it, and smote it.

Okay. But the land of Moab wasn't delivered unto them as promised by Yahweh

elated177:


Surely, until now you still haven't understood why the Israelites withdrew?

They withdrew because they were afraid of getting licked by Chemosh na. It's clearly written in your Bible, but I understand you're desperate to color the story to make it seem like the Israelites didn't just scurry off with their tails between their legs, without actually completing their mission

This is what happens when a person is fixated on a particular narrative. You will never accept the truth even if it is biting you on the lip.

You keep blabbing about the supposed truth of events but you're yet to actually show how the account of the story given by the Moabite Stele or 2 Kings doesn't tally with my conclusions

You should have shown where it was explicitly stated in the Scriptures. Where did the Scripture you quoted state that the abominable god of the Moabites, Chemosh, forced the Israelites to withdraw? What do you think was the objective of the Israelites?

Lol. Are you trying to play dumb? Who was the divine wrath or fury that came upon Israel after Mesha sacrificed his son? It couldn't possibly be Yahweh, so who could it have been? What was Yahweh's prophecy concerning the battle? To what extent was the prophecy fulfilled? Yahweh explicitly said he would deliver Moab into Israel's hands. Did that happen?

If Moab was a football and Yahweh delivered Moab into Israel's hands, then Israel dropped the ball before he made it into the end zone

This is what happens when people just copy and paste. Like I said earlier, you just saw the commentaries of the owner that write up, read it and ran with it because it suited your warped narrative.

It's actually funny because all you've done is cast aspersions, prevaricate and whine about my narrative being wrong. You've honestly brought nothing worth deliberating over, to the table so far. The story is clear enough for anybody honest and intelligent to understand but obviously intelligence isn't your strong suit, and neither is honesty. So now you want to twist the clear indications of the words used in the story and pin it on me lacking the understandind but you've actually not presented a reasonable counter to the argument posted.

You think I am defending my God?

You're not? Well that's interesting. A Christian apologist trying to argue and at the same time trying to imply that he's not defending his God

My God defends me and not the other way round. He fights for me. I don't fight for him.

Then why didn't he have the balls to face Chemosh head on when Chemosh stepped into the fray for the Moabites in the war against the Israelite military coalition?

As his saint, servant and prophet, it is my duty to use human language to teach and explain difficult things to the genuine seekers, as his great and awesome Spirit/Power directs and leads.
I am only trying to teach you what you don't know and have refused to know. Not that you are even capable of accepting the truth. You heart has been hardened. I am only doing this for the benefit of the genuine seekers.

I've probably said this elsewhere, but if you're trying to "teach" me stuff from the Bible, I'll advise you to save your breath and pack it in. In my experience, Christian apologists always have an escape route for any glaring inaccuracies presented in the Bible and they will always strive to push their narrative even if it conflates with that of their fellow Christians - which is probably why even Christians have heated debates among themselves. I do NOT trust you. The story of the battle between Israel and Moab is clear in terms of how the events played out. And it's clear that Yahweh's prophecy failed and the Israelites were punked and chased out of Moab. So keep chasing your tail over there

Ehehehehe!

Stop forcing it. There's nothing amusing about your predicament. It is rather pitiful. Your God is not all-powerful. It's the truth you clearly cant handle

Only if you knew. The omnipotency, the omnipresence and the omniscience of my God, YHVH Almighty, the one and only true God, the Creator of the heavens, the earth, the seas and everything in them, are not in doubt.

Unfortunately, it's been established that you couldn't see the trees for the forest even if one fell on your head

You still cannot fathom why I shared that story? Chai! Keep wailing.

No request was made for your bland and blathering story. If you can't make your points directly then keep it moving

Read my posts so far and decipher for yourself why the Israelites withdrew.

They withdrew because Chemosh came down and gave them a mass whooping

Who was Omri?

1 Kings 16: 25 But Omri did evil in the eyes of YHVH and sinned more than all those before him. 26 He followed completely the ways of Jeroboam son of Nebat, committing the same sin Jeroboam had caused Israel to commit, so that they aroused the anger of YHVH, the God of Israel, by their worthless idols.

Micah 6: 16 You have observed the statutes of Omri and all the practices of Ahab’s house; you have followed their traditions. Therefore I will give you over to ruin and your people to derision; you will bear the scorn of the nations.”

Have you seen who Omri was?

Continue to listen and learn, if at all you are capable of such.

Judges 2: 11 Then the Israelites did evil in the eyes of YHVH and served the Baals. 12 They forsook YHVH, the God of their ancestors, who had brought them out of Egypt. They followed and worshiped various gods of the peoples around them. They aroused YHVH’s anger 13 because they forsook him and served Baal and the Ashtoreths. 14 In his anger against Israel YHVH gave them into the hands of raiders who plundered them. He sold them into the hands of their enemies all around, whom they were no longer able to resist. 15 Whenever Israel went out to fight, the hand of YHVH was against them to defeat them, just as he had sworn to them. They were in great distress.

Deut 32: 21 They made me jealous by what is no god and angered me with their worthless idols. I will make them envious by those who are not a people; I will make them angry by a nation that has no understanding. 22 For a fire will be kindled by my wrath, one that burns down to the realm of the dead below. It will devour the earth and its harvests and set afire the foundations of the mountains. 23 “I will heap calamities on them and spend my arrows against them. 24 I will send wasting famine against them, consuming pestilence and deadly plague; I will send against them the fangs of wild beasts, the venom of vipers that glide in the dust. 25 In the street the sword will make them childless; in their homes terror will reign. The young men and young women will perish, the infants and those with gray hair.

Wait for it.

Deut 9: 25 I lay prostrate before YHVH those forty days and forty nights because YHVH had said he would destroy you. 28 Otherwise, the country from which you brought us will say, ‘Because YHVH was not able to take them into the land he had promised them, and because he hated them, he brought them out to put them to death in the wilderness.’

Are you ready for it? Here it is.

Deut 32: 26 I said I would scatter them and erase their name from human memory, 27 but I dreaded the taunt of the enemy, lest the adversary misunderstand and say, ‘Our hand has triumphed; YHVH has not done all this.’”

What Mesha ascribed to his abominable god was the punishment that YHVH Almighty, the God of the Israelites, poured on them for their disobedience.




You still think so?

So Yahweh lied by promising victory to the Israelites over Moab through prophecy then... How omnibenevolent

Besides, why would a God, any God, need people to fight and kill each other in useless wars? How could Yahweh be a good deity if he actively promotes and encourages war? Why would an omnipotent being be in any need of war?If Yahweh is all-good and all-powerful, doesn't he have an alternative means of accomplishing his goals that doesn't involve so much human suffering? If he is all-good, why doesn't he avail himself of these means?

Oh and you seem to be avoiding the fact that the Biblical worldview promotes polytheism. Have you nothing to say on that front?

donnie:


[...]

3. Sacrifice? Assuming you are a Nigerian, can you say you do not know what powers sacrifices (let alone human sacrifice) could activate? The problem was not with YAHUAH or His promise, but with the actions (or inactions) of his own people as compared with the desperation of the Moabite king demonstrated in the sacrificing of his own heir. In spirtuality, there are laws and sacrifice is one of them. It works irrespective of who is involved. The difference is, for those who are called according to His purpose (Isolele/Isalele/Israel), there is favour and victory because they are called and chosen by the Most High according to his purpose.

Is the bolded another one of you Christians' cliches of blaming people's misfortunes on their lack of faith in God? Correct me if I'm wrong. In any case, the story seems to portray Chemosh as more proactive and Yahweh as more passive.

4. False Prophecy? Well I don't think so.

2 Kings 3:17-19
this happened... they had water.
This also happened, the Moabites were delivered into their hands and they killed many.
This happened too.

Lol. Oh please. How very convenient of you

How about the part where Yahweh said "Moab will be handed over" and "you shall conquer every fortified city". You do know what is meant by every, don't you?

elated177:


I was already familiar with that portion of the Scriptures before today. I have read the op. I grasped the narrative it tried so hard to push forward.

There's no narrative being pushed here. The account of the confrontation between the Moabites and Israelites, as recounted in the Moabite Stone and 2 Kings is quite very easy to understand. The Israelites attacked the Moabites, getting the upper hand up until a divine wrath came upon them and made them withdraw.

I asked you to show me where it was stated that the Moabites actually engaged the Israelites after that human sacrifice and defeated them. You came up with nothing.

Your request is null and void because it was stated explicitly in the OP that it was Chemosh who stepped into the battle and forced the Israelites to run off with their tail between their legs, thereby overturning Yahweh's prophecy. The Israelites did not achieve their objective. They were forced to retreat. You're fabricating imaginary assertions.

Why ain't you getting it?

Actually it's you who's not getting it. You clearly didn't read the story or understand the events in the story. You read a post discussing your God's inadequacy and decided to jump in head first into the discourse out of your compulsive need to defend a God that can't even defend itself.

You saw a story, read it and ran with because, not only did it suit your warped narrative, it, in a weird and ridiculous sort of way, helped to energize your hatred for the truth of the only true God, the Creator of heaven and earth, the only omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient One.

Again there's no narrative here. The story is clear as day. And it obviously calls your God's omni traits into question.

Back then in secondary, there was this friend that came up with a weird way of eating his visiting day rice alone. He would clear his throat, gather all sorts of things in his mouth and spit into his plate of rice. He would then take his time and stir the rice for proper mixture. When he had done that, he would ask us if wanted to eat. He knew very well that none of us would eat. In fact, watching him eat that same rice made some of puke.

Don't beat about the bush. Make your point directly if you're confident in your arguments

Actually, the Israelites had already won the war. Did you even read the portion of the Scriptures that you posted? Go and read that portion of the Scripture very well.

Actually, the Israelites didn't win the war. Yahweh promised to deliver the land of Moab into their hands, and he failed. Chemosh punked Yahweh. King Mesha of Moab made a sacrifice causing the Moabite deity to come down himself and drive the Israelites away.

Also, you're forgetting the Moabite Inscription which gives a similar account of the event:

"Omri was king of Israel, and oppressed Moab during many days, and Chemosh was angry with his aggressions... and I took from it the vessels of Jehovah, and offered them before Chemosh... And the king of Israel fortified Jahaz, and occupied it, when he made war against me, and Chemosh drove him out before me."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesha_Stele#Text

If the Israelites were already victorious, surely it wouldn't be recorded that they fled from the battle? Yahweh took the L in the story, and clearly there are Gods who are just as powerful, if not moreso, than Yahweh.

Padipadi:
Baseless thread recommended to be thrown in abyss

Was that the best rejoinder you could compose? I know you can do better than that

elated177:



Show me where it was stated that the Moabites actually engaged the Israelites after the human sacrifice and won.

Dude, how about you first of all read the OP again, and then carry out your own research? It was Chemosh who stepped in by himself and whooped the Israelites collective asses, inspite of the promises and prophecies of Yahweh

Have you ever been forced to turn back by a heap of human excreta?

Nope. Never in my life. But since you've taken the liberty to liken Chemosh to "a heap of human excreta", can we safely conclude that the Almighty Yahweh cant even restrain a piece of shit and protect his people?

Transcribed from HERE

cc: LordReed, 1Sharon, HopefulLandlord, Workch, PastorAIO, Kingxsamz

Let's talk about the god that kicked Yahweh's butt

---

When discussing the "Gods", pagans are often challenged by Christians with the God of the Bible known as Yahweh, and Yahweh gets laden with these attributes of omnipotence, omniscience, omnibenevolence and sometimes omnipresence. Now, disregarding the incoherence of the Trinity for the moment and how often the "omni-" traits are meaningless to define anyway, it's difficult to figure out exactly how Christians come to the conclusion that their God has these traits. Some arguments connecting him to the creation of the world would argue that these traits are necessary for his existence, but I don't see power sufficient to create the universe as necessarily omnipotent, nor do I see the ability to establish a connection between being the creator and the God of the Bible beyond simple scriptural claims. Nothing about the Christian experience of their God implies that he must be the only one, nor does it imply that he must be the creator.

To make this case, we can assume the response to prayers as claimed by Christians as legitimate, and we can even grant their various miracles, but NONE of these suggests their God is all-powerful or even the most powerful, because in order to grant all these for one God, we have to grant them for all Gods accross traditions, given that we have no reason to dismiss other Gods. So we look to scripture and we find the various events with Moses, who historians don't think existed, or is based on any real events... but that aside, locusts and frogs do not make for omnipotence. And even splitting the Red Sea and destroying the walls of Jericho are nothing compared to creation which can't even be connected to Yahweh except through scriptures, and even then, you have to overlook the various scientific errors in the narrative which are handed down by a "perfect" and "all-knowing" God. But Christians will point to PROPHESY to show the superiority of their God - that each prophesy that comes true is the true revelation of their God's omniscience and/or omnipotence in order to bring these events about. But surely, if that were the case, then ALL prophecies would have come true... except that's not what we find, and to discover this, we only need to look at the Bible.

Now, Christians mean many things when they talk about "false gods". Sometimes they mean Gods that do not exist. Sometimes they mean Gods that they simply re-label as "demons" for their own reasons. The interesting part about this is that often, Christians do not deny the existence of other Gods, they simply namecall them as "demons" in order to avoid being considered polytheists (even though their God has a son, but that's besides the point).

So in this story, we'll discuss a deity mentioned in the Bible multiple times called Chemosh. The worship of this God is called "The Abomination of Moab" and is introduced in Jerusalem by a wise polytheist named King Solomon as recorded in 1 Kings Chapter 11, and here's the passage:

11 Now King Solomon loved many foreign women. Besides Pharaoh’s daughter, he married women from Moab, Ammon, Edom, Sidon, and from among the Hittites. 2 The Lord had clearly instructed the people of Israel, “You must not marry them, because they will turn your hearts to their gods.” Yet Solomon insisted on loving them anyway. 3 He had 700 wives of royal birth and 300 concubines. And in fact, they did turn his heart away from the Lord. 4 In Solomon’s old age, they turned his heart to worship other gods instead of being completely faithful to the Lord his God, as his father, David, had been. 5 Solomon worshiped Ashtoreth, the goddess of the Sidonians, and Molech,[a] the detestable god of the Ammonites. 6 In this way, Solomon did what was evil in the Lord’s sight; he refused to follow the Lord completely, as his father, David, had done. 7 On the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem,[b] he even built a pagan shrine for Chemosh, the detestable god of Moab, and another for Molech, the detestable god of the Ammonites. 8 Solomon built such shrines for all his foreign wives to use for burning incense and sacrificing to their gods. 9 The Lord was very angry with Solomon, for his heart had turned away from the Lord, the God of Israel, who had appeared to him twice. 10 He had warned Solomon specifically about worshiping other gods, but Solomon did not listen to the Lord’s command. 11 So now the Lord said to him, “Since you have not kept my covenant and have disobeyed my decrees, I will surely tear the kingdom away from you and give it to one of your servants.
- 1 Kings 11: 1-11 NLT

King Solomon, though depicted here with a little bias, seems to have been a loving husband with tolerance towards the faiths of the women that he married. In his tolerance, and given his own polytheism in respect for the personal agency of his wives, he created a space for his wives to practice their faiths - much to the frustration of future record keepers who don't seem to deny the events but feel compelled to colour it with disdain, and they cast their deity as upset with him but powerless to stop him. Among the Gods for which Solomon creates a space is Chemosh - the aforementioned "Abomination of Moab" who functioned among the Moabites in a similar way that Yahweh did for the Israelites, and some of the evidence of this is the Moabite Stone, describing the power of Chemosh written by King Mesha of Moab, and in it he says:

I am Mesha, son of Chemosh, King of Moab, the Debonite. My father reigned over Moab for thirty years and I became King after my father, and I made this high place for Chemosh - the High Place That Delivers for he hath delivered me from all that hath attacked me, and because he made me see my desire upon all my enemies. Omri, King of Israel. Oppressed Israel many days because Chemosh was angry with his land. And his sons succeeded him. And he also said, "I will oppress Moab". In my days he said this, and I saw my desire upon him and Israel was humbled with everlasting humiliation. Omri had taken possession of the land of Madiba, and his people occupied it during his days, and half the days of his son. Forty years. But Chemosh restored it in my days.

He goes on to describe his various victories, the slaughters associated with them. The lands taken from Israel despite their attempts to defend from him. And he attributes every bit of it to the glory of Chemosh. He even describes taking from Israel the vessels of Yahweh and bringing them before Chemosh, implying victory over Yahweh. But the Moabite claiming victory and attributing it to Chemosh isn't quite enough to say that Yahweh was defeated by Chemosh. And it could be argued that a struggle between people isn't quite a struggle between the Gods. But we have the Bible!...

18 This is an easy(A) thing in the eyes of the Lord; he will also deliver Moab into your hands. 19 You will overthrow every fortified city and every major town. You will cut down every good tree, stop up all the springs, and ruin every good field with stones.” 20 The next morning, about the time(B) for offering the sacrifice, there it was—water flowing from the direction of Edom! And the land was filled with water.(C) 21 Now all the Moabites had heard that the kings had come to fight against them; so every man, young and old, who could bear arms was called up and stationed on the border. 22 When they got up early in the morning, the sun was shining on the water. To the Moabites across the way, the water looked red—like blood. 23 “That’s blood!” they said. “Those kings must have fought and slaughtered each other. Now to the plunder, Moab!” 24 But when the Moabites came to the camp of Israel, the Israelites rose up and fought them until they fled. And the Israelites invaded the land and slaughtered the Moabites. 25 They destroyed the towns, and each man threw a stone on every good field until it was covered. They stopped up all the springs and cut down every good tree. Only Kir Hareseth(D) was left with its stones in place, but men armed with slings surrounded it and attacked it. 26 When the king of Moab saw that the battle had gone against him, he took with him seven hundred swordsmen to break through to the king of Edom, but they failed. 27 Then he took his firstborn(E) son, who was to succeed him as king, and offered him as a sacrifice on the city wall. The fury against Israel was great; they withdrew and returned to their own land.
- 2 Kings 3:18-27 NIV

This is 2 Kings Chapter 3. The verses leading up to this discuss that Mesha, the creator of the Moabite Stone, saw a change of power in Israel, and decided to stop paying tributes of a hundred thousand lambs, and the wall of a hundred thousand rams. The King of Israel, angered, rallied his soldiers and united with Judah to the South, and marched through Edom, gaining the support of the Edomite King on the way. In their uncertainty, they consulted a prophet about the upcoming battle - the Prophet Elisha (not to be confused with Elijah). Elisha tells the prophecy shown in 2 Kings 3 18-27. He tells of a miraculous event, giving water to the horses without rain, and that the Lord will hand Moab over to the Kings. The following day, the prophet's words come true and water miraculously appears without rain. The army drinks, and moves in on the Kingdom of Moab, and the Moabites flee before the might of the Israelite coalition. The passage talks of cities that fell before the coalition. They destroyed the good trees, sabotaged the good lands and destroyed water springs until finally they found Mesha, King of Moab. And Mesha assembles seven hundred swordsmen and goes out to meet the Edomite King in battle, and break through his lines. But he fails. And this... This is where it gets confusing.

According to the story, the King of Moab sacrificed someone to Chemosh. It's questionable whether or not it was the son of the Edomite King or his own son. Now, ignoring that the Bible often accuses enemies of human sacrifice where there's archeological evidence revealing a different story, or the irony of Christians looking down upon a kingly figure sacrificing his own son for his people, the story does have an interesting moment: Chemosh enters the battle, and overturns Yahweh's prophecy! It is described that as a result of the sacrifice, a great wrath came upon Israel, causing the Israelite coalition to retreat from King Mesha.

Now, the Moabite Stone and 2 Kings tell slightly different stories, but the differences are interesting. Both admit that the Moabites won, and both attribute the victory to Chemosh. But the Moabite record doesn't include any reference to the cause of sacrifice. It infact seems quite proud of how well things went, while the account in 2 Kings admits in embarrassment that their prophecy was overturned by the actions of another God. So now we're stuck in this position: Yahweh can fail. And therefore, he is not omnipotent. If he does have omnipotence however, that would mean that there are lies in this story, and that the Bible is NOT the perfect word of God, sacrificing Biblical authority.

But either way, the story reveals that even in a Biblical worldview, polytheism is true. And so the Christian that places their faith in the Bible must not only hold that polytheism is true, but that there are Gods stronger than Yahweh!

FERNANDEZISBACK:

You mean no rice in that picture?
Looks like I am high on crystal meth..

Well here you go..
How nice is it?

Yuck. Looks like shit

MaxInDHouse:


I already knew you're one of the usual atheists changing monikers on this forum like new year clothes.

Oh wow, a round of applause for Jehovah's houseboy Maximus69 aka TATIME. I would have awarded you a medal, but your detective skills here are quite frankly like that of an amateur

I never ever conveyed the fact that this is a new moniker. If you're interested, I'm also TheArranger, Judas1X and Adrammelech

When next you want to talk about Jesus remember to include what you've learned from me today:
Jesus talked about BENEFITS of faith in our invisible God. So without visible benefits whatever you cooked up remains nonsense and ingredients to any right thinking person!

And when next you want to talk about Atheism, please understand that Atheism is not a religion. Atheists doesn't promise you imaginary castles in the sky. Atheism is simply a lack of belief in gods. That's all!

Farewell!

Farewell, MaxDHouseboy. It was fun while it lasted

oteneaaron:


No, not Sunday school.

During weekdays as a JW, he attends the Theocratic Ministry School.

Then every Sunday, he goes thru a Question and Answer indoctrination session using a journal called the Watchtower.

He was schooled in foolishness!

[img]https://c./ZsB99_1aTHAAAAAC/kevin-the-office.gif[/img]

MaxInDHouse:


Do you now understand that it's not ability to communicate in another man's language that proves you're educated.

Actually it is a MAJOR hallmark of an educated person

A Boko Haram member may simply feel threatened by what a misinformed churchgoer said about his God and the next thing is WEAPONS! Tell me what is the essence of the education such a stupid fellow has if he can't ignore harmless noisemakers?

And you obviously don't know that there's a difference between wisdom, knowledge and intelligence

It also seems you don't really know what it means to be educated. Understandable though

Dude you don't know anything!

I smell burnt metal. Irony meter has exploded again

MaxInDHouse:


Do you now understand that it's not ability to communicate in another man's language that proves you're educated.
A Boko Haram member may simply feel threatened by what a misinformed churchgoer said about his God and the next thing is WEAPONS! Tell me what is the essence of the education such a stupid fellow has if he can't ignore harmless noisemakers?
Dude you don't know anything!

FORCE

noun

physical power or strength possessed by a living being:
He used all his force in opening the window.

strength or power exerted upon an object; physical coercion; violence:
to use force to open the window; to use force on a person.

strength; energy; power; intensity:
a personality of great force.

verb (used with object), forced, forc·ing.
to compel, constrain, or oblige (oneself or someone) to do something:

to force a suspect to confess.
to drive or propel against resistance:
He forced his way through the crowd. They forced air into his lungs.

verb (used without object), forced, forc·ing.
to make one's way by force.

here knock yourself out: https://www.dictionary.com/browse/force

Now I ask again: where is your evidence that your God exists?

MaxInDHouse:


Dude you have no business with my God it's me that you wanted to prove how free you are to so go ahead and prove to me that your so called freedom is worthwhile!

Keep repeating yourself like a broken record. Maybe somebody will be kind enough to come along and put you out of your misery

MaxInDHouse:


Now is time to prove how EDUCATED you are my friend:
What is the meaning of the word FORCE?

Why should I indulge your ignoramus questions when you have been avoiding my questions for pages now?

MaxInDHouse:
See how you're deceiving yourself?
With all your epistle you're unable to deceive me the slave of God, and after trying hard but frustrated you resort to childishness.
Doesn't that prove to you that my God is great?
Come on beat my intelligence and prove to me that my God hasn't equipped me enough to ridicule your useless researches!

If you are that desperate to prove you're not a circus act, then start by providing objective evidence of your God. I'm not having any ignoranum discussion with you until you do

MaxInDHouse:


WOW! Now you're talking like a real psychopath! And who is forcing the concept of God on you?

Duh... The Christians?

MaxInDHouse:


My friend i will school you when it comes to EDUCATION because it was meant to bring great benefits to those longing for it not just some useless informations of no benefit!

So how come you couldn't tell that my statement about slavery to the body was hypothetical?

It's too late to redeem yourself, MaxDHouseboy, we now know you're an outstanding ignoramus

MaxInDHouse:


Do you go about arguing about STAMPS?

Stamp collectors aren't infringing on my basic human rights or forcing me to collect stamps!

MaxInDHouse:


What is the essence of education?

After making a spectacular fool of yourself, this was your best retort? Damn bro, you really need to throw in the towel. You've said a lot of dumb shit since the inception of this thread, but this right here takes the cake

MaxInDHouse:


Just present the benefits of your so called freedom, that's all!

When you present the benefits of not collecting stamps, then I will

MaxInDHouse:

Do you have anything tangible to offer?
Your student is suffering from insanity, try to bail him out. People reason with people but he's demanding response from spirit yet talking to people. Is that not confirmed madness?

How is it madness to demand that I talk to your God? Or you think your God can't communicate with me? You don't believe in God again?

[img]https://c./ZsB99_1aTHAAAAAC/kevin-the-office.gif[/img]

MaxInDHouse:


Just as many opposes their kings but can't go to the government house to do anything other than crying and wailing in frustration!

Except he's not my king because I just said he's not above me. Your level of comprehension is dangerously low

MaxInDHouse:


This is hilarious!
Atheist believe in the Devil!

Unfortunately you've revealed that you didn't attend school. So I know you don't understand irony or sarcasm. Let me blow your mind: have your heard about figures of speech?

The only school you ever graduated from was Sunday School

Well you actually admitted that you're a slave to your body:



And that's why you're here playing hide and seek over what your brain can decipher in what's happening around you!

And this is what made me conlude that the Nigerian Government needs to give you special admission to the primary school of your choice. Because it is as evident as the shining sun that you went not to school, and seem inexplicably proud of it.

What does the conditional "IF" imply, MaxDHouseboy?

Like retardéd master, like retardéd slave. Bwahahahaha ha

MaxInDHouse:


So how do you think of benefits if you don't stretch your hands to grasp it?
I said it "atheists are psychopaths"
Everyone knows that benefits only comes to people who avail themselves for it!

If you want me to believe your God exists, you really need to do better than this. As it is you're thoroughly embarrassing your organization and your religion. And it's sad because I know many sensible JWs

MaxInDHouse:


So if you're sure there's nothing you can do about death then why do you expect others who want a solution to join you in your stupidity?

Wow, a round of applause for this certified mor0n. Hahahaha

So that's why you cling to this Bronze Age myth of piss-stained goat herders? Because you're too pussy to face the harsh realities of life? Well I know this is true for most, but I never saw it admitted in such manner

MaxInDHouse:


WOW!
I never knew ATHEISTS still have business with JESUS!

Of course. Whereas you worship him and kiss his arse, we scrutinize and criticize him because he's not above us

MaxInDHouse:


You're a slave to your body as you admitted too so there's no absolute freedom anywhere!

Except I never admitted such anywhere. Please show me where I admitted such and shame the devil. Represent your imaginary slavemaster properly for once

Hahahaha, MaxDHouseboy, you were never the sharpest tool in the box, were you?