trillville:
When the yaradua/gej administration came in, Naira to dollar was about 118. Today it is about 200.

The price of a barrel of crude was between 60 - 70 USD as it is today.

The op quotes a landing cost of about 1.1 USD. at 2007 the landing cost would have been about 130 Naira where as today it is about 220 naira.

Why has our currency fallen so badly? Is it the Nigerian public's fault or the government?

If it is the governments fault, should the Nigerian public suffer for the mismanagement of our economy by the government?

Should the Nigerian public trust the government that has failed to maintain the value of their currency that they will judiciously use funds from subsidy removal appropriately?

Granted, we have a new government, so we should be hopeful but shouldn't the individuals who's actions are causing us this pain be made to suffer too? Don't we deserve some justice?

Should we just keep suffering and smiling waiting for God to give us good leadership or should we demand for accountability?

Go ahead and pursue justice all you want, but while you are doing that, do not mortgage my children's future by borrowing money to pay subsidy.

Accountable leaders alone can not drive out corruption. That is wishful thinking. It is the policies of the accountable leader that can stop corruption . If you encourage fast money, you will breed fast money citizens. Extinguish the fire burning your house by first killing the source of that fire


You have no choice than to trust your leaders and hold them responsible. Whether you remove subsidy or not, they will eat fat. The only thing is that your future will be mortgage for life while your leader get new citizenship in a foreign country and pop champagne to our foolishness

frehage:


You've got valid points there. Our "volume of production to population ratio" is way out in left field. But the bottom line is that our output though not all sufficient, is adequate for us to buy fuel at a rate far below that of non producers. Non oil producing countries of necessity buy crude at international price, pay for it's transportation and refining, all from their pockets. But we don't need to dip our hands into our "pockets" for any of the above. Our crude have got/should get us covered. And we don't need to buy crude at international price. NNPC have got crude allocation for that. So there is really no need for us to buy fuel at $1.1 or whatever.

m
Don't be deceived. What you produce is not adequate. 2.2 million bbl per day for 170 million people is not adequate.

trillville:


From what I can gather from ur thread, you want the government to remove fuel subsidy as this will give the government more money to spend on infrastructure (basically bigger government) and take away money from the 110 million Nigerians that live on less than 2 dollars a day?

My barber was a strong supporter of GEJ, but had to start trekking to and fro from work everyday after the price of fuel was increased. He voted APC in the last elections.

Do you think fuel is a luxury for Nigerians or a means of livelihood?

My barber couldn't increase the price of haircuts at his shop because he found out that when he increased his price, people who used to cut their hair every week started cutting their hair every two weeks.

I used to give the yellow fever by my house 100 - 200 Naira every week before the increase in price. I had to completely stop this.

We are a very poor nation. We are a growing nation. Our policies must have a human face. We must think of the poorest in the land as the most important to be cared for.

We have difficult choices to make and as much understanding of how much is actually spent on fuel subsidy is necessary in evaluating our options.

Again, this is a case of big government vs the people. You are clearly for big government.

Removing subsidy is not taking away money from anybody. Your barber streaking to work is because of subsidy.

You are in a dire situation. The situation I gave on page one. Do you want to keep giving your children pocket money and fueling your generator while your roof is leaking? They can go to school, no health care, and you want to keep paying subsidy?

trillville:


So there are no other ways to save cost but to remove fuel subsidy? If subsidies must be removed, they will be removed. What is important right now is the reduction of corruption, a reduction in the incomes of public servants and then a reduction in the number of civil servants we have.
After all these, we can now talk about removing subsidies.

Governance is not just about performance but also maintaining the perception of performance. If you are working hard for the people but all they see is the hardship you are imposing on them, they will hate you and kill your government.

Not everything is logic and economics. Governance is about handling people and you must handle people pragmatically taking the psychological impact of your action on them into account when making decisions.

We have 170 million Nigerians out of which 110 million live on less than two dollars a day. Democracy is government of the people for the people so any sensible government will focus on people oriented policies.

Delusional feelings and fear of the unknown will hurt you psychologically and financially. Numbers are faithful. They don't lie. PMS price being 1.1 dollars will only hurt you if you are to timid to face facts

Esdb3:


What you don't seem to understand is that if there is no CORRUPTION we won't need to borrow money at all!!! Obasanjo proved it and there was corruption in his regime..

It is like you don't know how they 'drink' money in guzzles in this country! Go out and find out.

What you don't seem to understand is that if they is no corruption you are still flat broke. 4 Trillion of 170 million people is suicidal

jpphilips:


I dont really know where your interest lie but you are no longer making sense, more than 3 depots had AGO last week in ph at the peak of this crisis, they just refused to load, why am I even wasting my time with you, believe whatever you like it is your right, e go clear you for eye very soon!!

tell us how you plan to checkmate the excesses of the cabal since you plan to deregulate fully?

1. How many time do you want me to tell you the reason they refused to load? Can someone in this forum tell this guy the read my comments. Mr, have you read the reasons I gave you.

2. If you can't understand me or read my comments, why should I keep posting. I will do others a favor to give post my proposed solution to price fixing is to pass laws punishing severely price fixing. If you work for an American company and you are caught sharing information and trade secrets to your competitor, it is instant dismissal. No room for cartels in the eyes of the law. The marketers should collect loan and stock their AGO in the tanks. If they don't sell, they should keep it. We will buy from Togo. Our planes will fly to Ghana to refuel.
Prominent Price Fixing Examples
Air Travel

In August 2007 British Airways was fined £121.5 million for price fixing. The fine was imposed after BA admitted to the price fixing of fuel surcharges on long haul flights . The allegation first came to light in 2006 when Virgin Atlantic reported the events to the authorities after it found staff members from BA and Virgin Atlantic were colluding. Virgin Atlantic has since been granted immunity by both the Office of Fair Trading and the United States Department of Justice who have been investigating the allegations since June 2006. The US Department of Justice later announced that it would fine British Airways $300 million (£148 million) for price fixing. BA maintained that fuel surcharges were "a legitimate way of recovering costs. "

Beer

In April 2007 the European commission fined Heineken €219.3m, Grolsch €31.65m and Bavaria €22.85m for operating a price fixing cartel in Holland, totalling €273.7m (InBev, another brewer, was convicted for price fixing but escaped punishment) . The brewers controlled 80% of the Dutch market, with Heineken claiming 50% and the two others 15% each. Neelie Kroes said she was "very disappointed" that the collusion took place at the very highest (boardroom) level. She added, Heineken, Grolsch, InBev and Bavaria tried to cover their tracks by using code names and abbreviations for secret meetings to carve up the market for beer sold to supermarkets, hotels, restaurants and cafes. The price fixing extended to cheaper own-brand labels and rebates for bars.



Source: Boundless. “Price Fixing.” Boundless Marketing. Boundless, 14 Nov. 2014.

To be honest, I am tired of your post. It's a big shame you do not know the effects of a devalued Naira. 18000 Naira today is less than 18000 minimum wage is this time last year. It has lost its value by 25%. It means if you continue to put subsidy on your budget, you will of course continue to run deficit, which will in turn weaken your currency, and then further reduce your 18000. So who loses, the masses.

You seems to be a marketer or paid agents, that why you are hell bent on distorting reality. Don't mortgage people's children's life because of the fraud subsidy. It must go.

Lastly, if you think we are incapable of running a free market in Nigeria, especially in the oil sector like every other countries (95% countries) the Nigerian spirit will prove you wrong.

Esdb3:


Don't you wonder why they are still in that state? Paying a lot when they don't have money. You want us to be like that? You seem heartless.

What I meant is that all countries pay the international price of PMS. Poor, rich, no so rich etc. you seems to be the heartless one. Mortgaging your Kid future for a plate of yam. PMS at the international price would hurt no one. It's the panic and delusions that will hurt. The opportunities in a deregulated downstream sector is enormous. We just have to do it. If you do not do it, your government will have to borrow money to run your country. It is suicidal to run a country of 170 million with ll have to borrow money to run your country. It is suicidal to run a country of 170 million with 4 trillion Naira. You will be worse than Somalia in the future.

Esdb3:


Don't you wonder why they are still in that state? Paying a lot when they don't have money. You want us to be like that? You seem heartless.

What I meant is that all countries pay the international price of PMS. Poor, rich, no so rich etc. you seems to be the heartless one. Mortgaging your Kid future for a plate of yam. PMS at the international price would hurt no one. It's the panic and delusions that will hurt. The opportunities in a deregulated downstream sector is enormous. We just have to do it. If you do not do it, your government will have to borrow money to run your country. It is suicidal to run a country of 170 million with 4 trillion Naira. You will be worse than Somalia in the future.

adanny01:


Corruption should be removed, then subsidy can go, then refineries building.

Corruption doesn't go away by wishing it. It goes by creating policies which in turn creates a system where corruption would not thrive

jpphilips:




The Nigerian problem requires a Nigerian solution I won't remind you again,, your devalued currency increased your landing cost and interest rates nothing more, I have told you why AGO is scarce instead of proving me wrong, you are telling me it is not scarce in Togo, what kinda reasoning is that?
Prove to me that the cabals did not hoard AGO last week to send a strong message to the govt to pay for PMS subsidy outstanding?

If the Marketers can show the government pepper, what do you think they will show you in a deregulated market, candy?

1. The Nigerian solution is to get rid of subsidies on PMS.

2. I have also told you why AGO was scarce. Can't you read?

3. They won't give you candies or pepper if your government learn how to regulate a free market

jpphilips:


you make me repeat myself, once you deregulate, you have lost the power to make anybody do anything.
You said they won't hoard? oh! yea! where did all the AGO in the country disappear to last week? where did Jet A1 disappear to? or you think the planes use PMS too? wetin concern AGo with unpaid PMS subsidy? are you not seeing them again after the strike?
you seem not to have any idea what is going on.
Remove subsidy and witness the annihilation of the middle class.

you are also making me repeat myself. Pray tell me why AGO is not scarce in Togo, Chad, USA KENYA etc. You owed the markerters and they showed you pepper. Also pray tell while the annihilation of the middle class has not occured in 90% of the countries. They have devalued your Naira, what it means is that any money you have now (savings) has been reduced by 10 percent. Your expenditures have also been increased by 10%. It means you are actually buying your so called subsidized PMS for 10% extra. Annihilation of the middle class has not occured.

Stop the delusion that government can not regulate a free market. Its a communist mentality.

adanny01:


Why not on PMS?

There is subsidy on fertilizer which coincidentally is also a petroleum product but used in the agricilture sector. Is the subsidy on fertilizer having any effect on its availabilty to farmers? No

Some states have various levels of subsidy in education. Is free education in Imo and other states not subsidy? My state of Kaduna pays NECO examinations fee. What has that done to reduce illiteracy in Nigeria. Instead, literacy levels are not getting better.

The poor man in the remotest village feels the immediate impact if N5 subsidy is added or subtracted from PMS. Tell me now which of the various subsidy regimes has the capacity to affect positively or negatively the lives of 170milion Nigerians.

Stop the delusion that a hike in PMS prices will affect anything. It wont. If at all it does hike, it is caused by your delusion. Your delusion will panic the market. Your economy is run by diesel not PMS.

There are no reasons while the hike in PMS would mean hike in anything. What was the hike in prices when we paid 97 Naira? Even if everything hikes, we would not die. Again do you want your kids to be out of school, you want your wife/mother/kids to die in the hospital because you do not have good medicare, but you want to fuel your Gen in a leaking house?


Agriculture is the sure bet to put your subsidy money into. It is the real sector. You employ your people, you feed your people, you produce excess and reserve in time of war, you diversify your economy, you earn exchange rate and put less pressure on your naira and as such values your naira which will in turn reduce price of imported PMS. I can go on and on. Hopefully you get the picture now. Do I need to explain to you how investing in education can help our economy?


With all due respect try I read about economics.

jpphilips:
author=gohome post=34152086]

Please esplain futher, I do not understand this question.

I will put an answer, tell me if this helps



Wrong!!




Crap!!




I have given you an answer on my last post




Listen attentively, the reason AGO was scarce was because AGO is deregulated, there is no Govt control on AGO so the cabals call the shot fully in that area. All products belong to the cabal, while protesting for their 200b unpaid PMS subsidy funds, they utilized all the weapons in their arsenal, AGO being one of it, we gave them the power through deregulation.
If you deregulate fully, You have given the cabal total control of the Energy sector, like i said on the other post, they will annihilate the middle class.
They hoard their AGO to spite the government nothing more, deregulation has given them the power of monopoly.
The downstream sector is a bit tricky, Buhari must thread with caution.

Again, please be more civil, it will help us all aprreciate your line of thought. If the so cabal are allowed to sell at 1.1 dollar per litre they wont hoard. PMS is not cheap let us deal with it. AGO is deregulated in 90% of the countries, but not scarce, why should it be scarce in Nigeria?

nairamaniac:
why do you Nigerians forget so easily. Jonathan didn't say "let's remove the subsidy, cos its a scam". he said, " let's remove the subsidy cos iv been scammed". he was scammed to spend 1.2trillion naira as against 400 billion which was spent the previous year. now, Jonathan transfered the burdens of his damage to us the ordinary citizens to pay for the excess 800billion. we d citizens played for this damage every subsequent year thru d removal of subsidy. Jonathan's government is the worst ever, economically speaking. no one has even asked why the naira was devalued last year November. the naira was devalued from 160naira/1dollar to above 250naira/1dollar becos our wicked country had to access our foreign-reserve in order to make up for difference in oil-revenue after oil prices had crashed. the yearly budget depends mainly on oil revenue. as oil prices crashed from above $100 to less than $60, the government wdnt have beenable to meet up with a budget of 4trillion anymore, the most they WD have gotten is about 2trillion. they needed money from somewhere. that somewhere was the 'foreign reserve'. they wanted it to be plenty wen converted to naira, hence they devalued the naira and the economy and masses suffered just as it suffered when subsidy was removed. My people, God loves this country that y he has directly bailed us out on two major-occassions . the 1st time was thru the death of Abacha. the 2nd time was the removal of Jonathan.

You have spoken well. Removing Jonathan and putting another Jonathan will change nothing. OBJ/Yar Adua/Jonathan was scammed, will Buhari be scammed? May 29th onwards will tell.

jpphilips:
gohome post=34137209]






Arrant Nonsense!!






Arrant nonsense, Nigeria has a peculiar problem that requires a Nigerian solution, at the Bundu waterside, there is a particular cheap diesel sold there, is it sold in Germany? is there kpo fire in the UK?








Ladies and Gentlemen!! here you have it, Subsidy is the only government control in the downstream sector, remove subsidy and the middle class will face extinction, you guys have no idea what these cabals are capable of!!





Deregulation or not, refining in Nigeria is still profitable especially with this relatively low oil cost





JET A1 is regulated under DPK subsidy






Oil and gas downstream sector follows a different rule entirely!! that thing you wrote up there will never happen if you deregulate completely.
Why is AGO fully deregulated not flooded every where? why is the international crude pricing not having a significant effect on the price of AGO?
Why has competition not pushed down the price of deregulated AGO? if you have the answer to these questions, then you will appreciate how comical you sound with that statement.




Arrant nonsense!! all sectors do not obey the same rules, Telecom, power and oil are two different things, only Sanusi think otherwise.







You are very ignorant, Capital oil and Oando belong to the same union, if you remove Govt control (subsidy), if Capital doesnt sell, Oando wont sell either, you will exist at their mercy, they will fix their prices and you can not do Jack about it, but with subsidy in place, they are Obligated to sell except when they have a beef with their client (Government), you just experienced a tip of their influence last week, obviously, you have not learnt your lesson, remove subsidy and you will understand why a sitting president referred to them as "cabals".

Capital defied the union to release only 13m liters, do you think that is all he has got? he did Jonathan his personal friend a favor to salvage his image and the union understand, joke with these men at your own peril, they dont give a flying fvck about you!!






False!! it cost less than $30 to produce Nigerian oil, Shale oil is more expensive though, North Darkota is around $65/bbl, Texas and colorado is about $75/bbls, why do you think that Saudi was able to sustain the price war? because of variations in cost of production, Nigeria and Libya remainst the cheapest in Africa.





Let the Governemnet worry about that, if the government can not design a blue print to make subsidy disappear, then they should continue paying till the president's salary is used for the last subsidy ticket, Government is there to serve the people not the other way round, there are a billion and one ways to make subsidy disappear in 4yrs, why cant the government figure it out? other than throwing around lies to bamboozle the citizens,
The United states at the peak of 2003 high oil price, President George Bush read a riot act and vowed to cut the united states dependance on foreign oil by 70%, he drew a plan and succesive governments followed it, 10yrs on, United states is on the 3rd spot in oil production in the world and aiming the first spot by next year with a whooping 15mbopd, that is what Governance is about, not wearing Agbada and fedora hat like an slowpoke.






Crap!! the governemnt is lazy and they dont think!! stop cutting them useless slack, give Murry Bruce or Pat Utomi the presidency and subsidy will disappear in 5yrs, you can not vote block heads and expect a miracle in governance.

We recycle different classes of failures as public officers with no idea whatsoever how to run a country, Corruption is a bigger problem than subsidy, now, we have Buhari, a step in the right direction, he is expected to curb corruption and instill dicipline for Nigerian leadership to have sincerity of purpose, after him, is a technocrat that will strategically position Nigeria as a global player.
If he is able to select the technocrats now, then we have icing on the cake.






Be very careful what you wish for, these guys will import products, hoard it and make you beg to pay 1,000naira for a liter, the Cabal is already waiting for Buhari to make that mistake, your $1.1 PMS will only happen in your dreams.
who told you nothing will happen? well, Jonathan did not envisage the Ojota razzmatazz did he? Are you aware that the awareness the opposition created at the time was the drive that led to his defeat at the polls, do not ever in your life under estimate the power of the people.






Another B.S, United states twice the size of Nigeria, run 4 major subsidies that I can remember and still remain the richest in the world, bros! it is not about the size of your population but the ability of a Government to create wealth, you continue saying we can not afford it so what?
How about Leaders being able to create wealth? the oil you are dancing on was created by the leaders of the 70's, at the time Nigeria started investing in oil and gas, Coal was more profitable than oil, the ingenuity of our heroes past took a fore sight and invested in oil.

40yrs on, 10 leaders past, none of them has been able to create another source of income for this country, we are still brooding over oil that the 70's leaders created, it has been from one chop chop government to another, in the face of this abysmal failure, you dare cut them slack? what is wrong with you?

Like i said, I dont mind if the president's salary is caught up in the middle of subsidy receipt.

Please be more civil.

Stop being scared. It is better we are at the mercy of them and learn how to checkmate capitalism excesses in a free market than still be on thier mercy right now. No country ready to progress will pay subsidy on Imported PMS. Subsidy is not a bad word. It should be done in other places (Transport, Agriculture, Education) Not Imported PMS.

Like someone said, Imported fuel accounts largely for why the Naira is so weak, that hurts your purse 10 times more than removing the present subsidy will. As it is, remove or no remove only those involved in the scheme/scam wins! The only difference will be an accountable leader will have more money to work (Build Infrastructure)

TheGoodJoe:


Remove the Subsidy and a government like GEJ will not produce infrastructure for a million people. It will disappear. Just like the $60 billion debt Buhari is inheriting. A serious government that felt Subsidy was a priority will use the funds from the partial Subsidy removal and foreign loans to build refineries.

It was not in their agenda. The loans were not, the money missing from NNPC were not used to develop infrastructure but their foreign bank accounts.

Stop living in the past. GEJ is gone. We are talking about the next budget. It is immaterial what GEJ did not did not do. What is important is the future. I can not get back the money owed by my leaders since 1960 about 41 billion dollar debt. Either can i get back the 18 billion monies our state government collected, or the 3 billion NOI collected. What I can do is learn from the past, think about the future and be look to be Brazil, Turkey, China and eventually U>S>A, Japan, Germany etc.

TheGoodJoe:


Even with total Subsidy removal, we will be in the same predicament.

You are talking from the perspective of a government who want infrastructure for their people and development for the future generation. Not these men.

We sold Crude at astronomical prices and GEJ did not think of setting up refineries to curb out subsidy wastages. Look at Madam Madueke Flying in Private Jets with government funds. Look at the hundreds of people GEJ flew to different summits. Look at the bags of money distributed during the election.

With Subsidy removal, it would be the same, especially under a government like GEJ. The partial Subsidy removal proves it. The money went down the drain. Same with the Subsidy removal of Diesel. Yet no refineries but the same old scam. Things gets harder, the future ones suffer.

Left to me, let them lose more and let me buy petrol at N55.

With this mentality, you are no different from your leaders. You want to chop the one you see which is 30 Naira. If you see 1 billion, you wont care, you go chop am, then mortgage your kids future. its alright.

djmummy:
I have to say this has been one of the most informative topics here on nairaland. I have learnt a lot in just a matter of minutes Kudos to all of u

gohome, 989900 and others.

Continue with the constructive arguments

Thank you. So what is your position? Remove or not to remove?

TheGoodJoe:


Even with total Subsidy removal, we will be in the same predicament.

You are talking from the perspective of a government who want infrastructure for their people and development for the future generation. Not these men.

We sold Crude at astronomical prices and GEJ did not think of setting up refineries to curb out subsidy wastages. Look at Madam Madueke Flying in Private Jets with government funds. Look at the hundreds of people GEJ flew to different summits. Look at the bags of money distributed during the election.

With Subsidy removal, it would be the same, especially under a government like GEJ. The partial Subsidy removal proves it. The money went down the drain. Same with the Subsidy removal of Diesel. Yet no refineries but the same old scam. Things gets harder, the future ones suffer.

Left to me, let them lose more and let me buy petrol at N55.

Remove corruption and use 4 Trillion as budget, you are still flat broke. Double that figure to 8 Trillion, you are still flat broke.

Oga, you need a trillion dollars to have infrastructure for 170 million people

In this case, your security lies in building infrastruture (Military, Agriculture, Education). It does not lie in fueling your generator. You have proven that you did not die the last week. You have proven that when the price was almost doubled from 65 naira to 97 naira, you did not die. Infact you bought more cars. Your poorer neighbours are not dead. Do not mortgage you kids future

pawesome:
gohome,989900,u guys re jst too much...dis is d first tym i actually went tru 7 pages on nairaland n read every single post...all tnx to u guys

Thank you. We should learn how to trust our leaders. Some of our leaders want to make things work but lack of trust hinders them. If Buhari truly wants to make things work, why should we hinder him? Why unfortunately we did not trust GEJ, NOI and SLS, why make the same mistake twice. Give Buhari the support to get rid of the thong in the flesh.

TheGoodJoe:
Even with total Subsidy removal, Nigerian kids will die of hunger in the streets. Women will still die without adequate medicare. The stealing of the government will be like giving you N0 and taking Billions of dollars.

Even with total Subsidy removal, these people would have taken loans and ran the country to debt.

The problem with infrastructural decayis not Subsidy but Corruption.

Man, we have no infrastructure.

Remove corruption and use 4 Trillion as budget, you are still flat broke. Double that figure to 8 Trillion, you are still flat broke.

Oga, you need a trillion dollars to have infrastructure for 170 million people

In this case, your security lies in building infrastruture (Military, Agriculture, Education). It does not lie in fueling your generator. You have proven that you did not die the last week. You have proven that when the price was almost doubled from 65 naira to 97 naira, you did not die. Infact you bought more cars. Your poorer neighbours are not dead. Do not mortgage you kids future

989900:


If you said the above in 1999 up till 2008 thereabout, you will be correct.

As we stand now, the present subsidy scheme would only destroy Nigeria.

Imported fuel accounts largely for why the Naira is so weak, that hurts your purse 10 times more than removing the present subsidy will.

As it is, only those involved in the scheme/scam wins!

Next time Nigerians take to the streets, I want us to do it for the refineries, do it for stable electricity supply -- that's when we win!

Fantastic

jpphilips:
Corruption, financial muscle, Audit assessment, integrity assessment of facilities, political patronage etc

Great answer. Thanks

jpphilips:



You did not answer the question, you are just making ignorant blank statements, how did a regulated PMS affect a deregulated AGO, if you dont know the answer, keep quiet.

Please esplain futher, I do not understand this question.

I will put an answer, tell me if this helps

1. Because the sector is not fully deregulated. The money these marketers get from PMS, they can afford to sell diesel to you at any price. You are lucky. If the sector is fully deregulated, you may buy diesel at 180 Naira per liter

2. I also believe the reason that the price of diesel is high is because it is not lucrative to import it. The marketers simply ignore it and all rush for the beautiful bride called PMS because of the subsidy they will get from govt. This creates artificial relative scarcity of diesel and the price remains high

3. The price of crude oil is not directly proportional to the price of diesel. In other words if the price of crude oil is reduced by 40 percent, the price of diesel will only reduce by 5% or less The reason being diesel is a necessary by product from the very cherished PMS. It's prices are determined by refining margins amongst other factors. These margins are calculated from the composition of crude refined

The price of diesel has dropped in several countries but risen in others. From July 2013 to July 2014 (oil price peak), the retail price of diesel dropped by 3.6 percent in Germany. In Japan, prices increased by 9.7 percent during the same time. The United Kingdom had some of the highest prices for automotive diesel, reaching 1.93 U.S. dollars per liter in July 2014. Today in the UK, the price of diesel is 1.91 U.S. Dollars.

4. I also believe the reason why diesel was scarce last week is because markerters refused to lift. diesel boggle everywhere

TheGoodJoe:


You just said, this is not about GEJ but you went back to the proteast. The issue of the protest is simple. It is better we lose billions to marketers and buy petrol cheap. You read with Candle but you entered Public transport, your parents had cars, stores you bought things used gen sets to cool drinks and water. You cut your hair with barbers that used gen sets.

A hike in petrol price is a hike in everything. Including candles.

As long as the petrol is cheap, some way, some how, the government worked for us. Take Subsidy, you take government responsibility. They have sold the whole country in the name of privatization. Yet Subsidy is their problem.

I mean protest (by voting or strike) that your kids have this in future. Stop living in the past. Because a protest was done in 2012, i should not use the word protest in any context?

There are no reasons while the hike in PMS would mean hike in anything. What was the hike in prices when we paid 97 Naira? Even if everything hikes, we would not die. Again do you want your kids to be out of school, you want your wife to die in the hospital because you do not have good medicare, but you want to fuel your Gen in a leaking house?

PMS being cheap is like your government giving you 20 Naira and collecting 200 Naira. from your reasons, If you do not allow them take subsidy the same government has the license to take loan on your head will go and take loan, pay the subsidy (their cronies) and chop the balance. So why dont you trust your government? The same government will devalue your Naira and the 20 Naira, 80 Naira or even 200 Naira you want your govenment to give you is erased. Think.

you have put so much pressure on your Naira

TheGoodJoe:
[color=#000099]
If our country was run well, this debate should not be an issue. In the past, subsidy was run without it having an effect on infrastructural development.

This is a joke right?

TheGoodJoe:
[b][color=#000099]

Look at the amount of loans GEJ took with nothing g to show. Without the Subsidy, the money gotten from it will go down that drain. If our country was run like the other Crude producing nations, we will not talk of subsidizing petrol prices.

So, we should not use infrastructure as an argument for removing Subsidy. It was the same argument NOI used to take loans and increased our foreign debt. Nothing to show for it.

With total Subsidy removal, infrastructural decay will continue especially, if GEJ continued to rule. to

Put a system in place, curb out corruption in the system. We will see we do not even need this Subsidy removal of our refineries are working in full capacity.

The call for removal has nothing to do with GEJ. It has everything to do with whoever will write the next budget

wirinet:


Why are you now being sacarstic? I said petrol affects every facet of our lives and its cost places a great strain on the masses. You mischievoulsy ignored where i wrote that power is essential for their homeworks.

I was responding to your analogy where you implied that fuel for the home is a luxury that can be dispensed with, i was telling you it is a neccessity.

I have not even gone into how much i spend in my office daily.

I used candles to read in my secondary and univeristy school days. 30 million of the kids in this country use candles to read. At least you can guy a Gen, maintain it and can also afford it at 87 Naira Protest for infrastructure not subsidy. Protest so these kids will have light to read their books not subsidy.

wirinet:


And the Diesel is not imported energy? Petrol, Diesel, Aviation fuel and Kerosine are all imported energy. Manufacturing companies should not run on diesel, if you do you will not be able to compete in the international market. Diesel is a very expensive form of energy. Industries in industrialized nations run on electricity or in the alternative gas. Even homes in Europe run on gas for hot water and heat during winter, it would be too expensive to run on diesel.

So in other words, Apart from rashes for your kids removal of subsidy on PMS as no major economic impact right?

TheGoodJoe:


I do not understand your answer. Do not use Japan and Hungary for your debate. If these were Crude Exporting Countries, their Government will Subsidize their Petrol prices.

Their prices are not subsidized because they are not Crude Exporting countries.

If you want to tow that line, use Crude Exporting countries.

Most crude exporting countries are poor. I wont use all of them. I will only use the rich once.

1. UAE: The UAE is 8 million migrant and 1.4 millions citizens. Budget is in excess of 4 trillion Naira. Economy is so diversed that only 4% of oil revenue go to Dubai city budget. They produce 3.2 million bbl per day. Again, a population of 1.4 million people produces 3.2 million bbl/day

2. Saudi: Population 27 million people with a whooping 11 million bbls/day. Saudi also has a gold mining sector and other mineral industries, an agricultural sector that can feed the whole middle east and large number of temporary jobs created by the roughly two million annual hajj pilgrims. They have about 1 Trillion dollars saving, super infrastructure in place and is looking to emulate dubai and build 4 cities (1 Trillion dollars can do that). The cities will be spread around Saudi Arabia to promote diversification for each region and their economy, and the cities are projected to contribute $150 billion to the GDP.

3. Kuwait: 1.2 Million people (voting population of Alimosho LGA) and produces 2.8 million bbls per/day. They have about 600 billion dollars saving.

4. Qatar: 270,000 Qataris (1/10th the size of lekki). 1.5 million bbls/day of crude oil produced. 120 billions saving. Great infrastructure in place.


Now soak this information and see what these guys have in common

1. Extreamly low population
2. Massive infrastructure
3. High production rate
4. Massive savings

Your country lacks all 4. You need all 4 badly.

Sweetguy25:
The problem with subsidy is the exchange rate. If naira exchanged for 90 naira per dollar, we won't have a problem with subsidy removal

And exchange rate is determined by the amount of pressure you put on the Naira. Create an environment for investors, they build refineries, you reduce 40 million litre of imports per day, you reduce the pressure on your naira, then bang you will cruise.

wirinet:


Thank you. This is the message i am trying to pass through. We cannot depend on imported energy to run Nigeria. That cost would reflect in everything manufactured in Nigeria and you will lose jobs to other countries. Our industries are running on foreign raw materials, foreign equipments and foreign technical manpower, we cannot afford to run on imported energy.

It wont. Everything manufactured in Nigeria run on Diesel not PMS. Event services (Bank, entertainment, Hotels) run on Diesel.

TheGoodJoe:
It is easy to make an argument with countries like Hungary and Netherlands. Why don't we discuss using major Crude Oil producing Natons.

Raw materials have to be translated to money before it makes sense. 170 million people with 2 million bbls per day? Take a moment and soak that figure then You can not compare your selves with Oil producing nations doing well. 1 UAE 2. Kuwait 3. Saudi. If you still do not get it let me know, i will expantiate.