₦airaland Forum

Pksst:

. . . and yes, I miss and a lot other people O!

I'm not leaving forever. Actually our offices have to be refurbished - equipments have to be moved, blah-blah. Will only take a few days; and I'll be back. The PC at home is no good - destroyed by games virus.

Enjoy!

Okay. Sleep well. If you no see me for the next few days, I go return.

My brother @teddyface,

Na God I go thank!! So many of us really don't know what we let ourselves into when we open our mouths at people. After my 'encounter', I still marvel that God did not abandon me to my own devices!! Praise Him!

@mukina2,

mukina2:
the fact that Muslims do take pictures . They appear on Tv .they are pictures of people living now .We cannot create a picture of someone we have never seen .The Prophet told his companions he resembles Abraham .he wasnt telling them to create an image of him in their minds ,because they have also never seen Abraham. So teee me why must we be creating Images when we do not know how our Prophet looked liked?

You're beginning to be as predictable as babs787.

First, I noted that the pictures or artistic impressions of any person at all - Biblical or Qur'anic - are not to be fior worship. 

Anyhow, it's like reharshing the same set of arguments again. Please mukina2, show me just 1 verse in the Hadith where the reason for taking pictures is as you stated: "they are pictures of people living now"! On the contrary, I've offered the reason stated in the Hadith for the injunction against any pictures (whether of human beings or animals) - and it has nothing to do with whether or not the people were living in the present or the past! Let me remind you once again of a few:

Narrated Abu Talha: I heard Allah's Apostle saying; "Angels (of Mercy) do not enter
a house wherein there is a dog or a picture of a living creature (a human being
or an animal)."
-----------------------------------------------
(Sahih Bukhari, Vol. 4, Book 54, Num. 448).

Infact, so that we don't argue in a circle, could you please provide me with the texts in the hadiths where concessions were given for some types of pictures of human beings (dead or alive). That is, is it stated anywhere that Muslims are permitted to take pictures of themselves (or "make" pictures) of any human being (except [/b]prophets[/b])??

The prohibition of picture in Islam has nothing to do with whether or not the people being pictured are alive or dead. There's just no sort of pictures permitted by Muhammad. 

mukina2:
we are muslims but we are also humans . the world is changing and so are times .muslims do take pictures now .but i have never once seen a picture of any Prophet .

Of course, Muslims take pictures now - and indeed they should! 

However, change or not, do you think Muhammad would have relaxed his prohibition against pictures of any kind - whether of human beings or animals??

mukina2:
you answered yourself  on this one

Narrated 'Aisha: That the Prophet said to her, "You have been shown to me twice
      in my dream. I saw you pictured on a piece of silk and some-one said (to me).
      'This is your wife.'When I uncovered the picture, I saw that it was yours. I said,
      'If this is from Allah, it will be done"

That does not answer my question; and if anything, it contradicts Muhammad's prohibition. The hadiths I already gave prohibited any kind of pictures without room for any concession. If there's not even one case for any type of pictures in the Hadiths, then saying that the last line above answers my question is simply saying that Muhammad made laws for others that he himself was unable to keep.

If you wonder at this, I could serve you some instances - and they are many. _{That would be after this guy here let me rest!} 

mukina2:
how can you paint  a picture in your mind of someone you  have never seen?

That should make us all wonder at what Muhammad was trying to do when he told his companions that he resembled Abraham more than anyone else. had they seen Abraham? Then what was Muhammad trying to inject into the minds of his listeners? 

Okay. Finito.

But since you didn't miss me, your wish will be attended to. . . for a few days _{(so that this bobo for my side go let me rest!)}

mukina2:
gwaine yeah

Right. I'll store that away for future reference. 250 verses discounted, yeah? I'm still counting.

Keep arguing, it won't change nutin.

You should as well add Isaiah 9:6 - and pray tell. . . where una keep prophet Isaiah in Islam?

Okay, I'll disappear - for a few days. Seriously. _{I didn't say I promise. . . just that I'll try to disappear!!}

Reason? Well, I don't know what happened but one of the guys here has . . . em. . . has eyes for you. So he asked me to. . . em. . . make myself scarce for a while.

Muki, what's happening?? I wan know O!

Okay, part I answered. Parts II and III follow:

# wetin dey inside the Kaa'ba - and what is so sacred about it?

# Why must Muslims face a particular direction to pray? Is God limited to the East?

Jesus is God - John 1:1.

@n-ago-2007,

[quote author=n-ago-2007 link=topic=51734.msg1118984#msg1118984 date=1179267329]Thanks Gwaine for the reminder, this is only typographical error. However i also try to pass a knowledge to audience that they may reflect. Anywayz thanks one more. [/quote]No worries. We all often make mistakes - and I have as well on a few occasions.

Regards.

Good question. Infact sef, it's not just the East they face. Wetin dey inside the Kaa'ba gaaan na im we wan know!

The difference between this:

mukina2:
people convert to Islam daily!

. . . and this:

mukina2:
i wonder when this propaganda stories will end

. . . is quite simply this: one is a statement; the other is a complaint. However, BOTH statements are propaganda!!

People convert to Islam everyday, true. But a Sheik has also noted that Muslims convert from Islam at an alarming rate as well (about 669 muslims in a day or so, can't remember). Was the Sheik also a propagandist??

mukina2:
i am still a muslim and will remain one till i die

. . . Even with the 250 verses discounted, huh??

mukina2:
@Babyosisi and Gwaine

i meant that .even though you the peoplei mentioned hates Islma and muslims

Nope, I disavow Islam; but I do not hate Muslims. You may try and take a look at one of my reactions here and see if I actually hate Muslims:

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-52589.32.html#msg1114888

my first comment there: The world is an exciting place with Muslims, actually

Scroll down and see my last paragraphs as well.

mukina2:
they never come up with what this lady here keeps bringing up . lots of senseless topics

It all depends on what you mean by "senseless topics". Actually, there are some very pointless ones that some other guys have raised from your quarters, and they're none the wiser.

mukina2:
when is shahan coming back i have missed her

Lol, I have been taking a look at shahan's posts. Intelligent, and I'll leave it at that. Yes, I also miss her on the Forum.

@babs787,

babs787:

1. has anybody ascended to heaven?

a. john 3 v 13: no one has ascended into heaven but he who descended from heaven, the son of man.

b. 2nd kings 2 v 11: and as they still went on and talked, behold, a chariot of fire and horses of fire separated the two of them. And Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

The context of John 3:13 is not to be detarched from the preceding verses, and reading from vs. 11:

Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen;
and ye receive not our witness. If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how
shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? And no man hath ascended up to heaven,
but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Notice Jesus was speaking to Nicodemus, "a master of Israel" (vs.9-10) who should quite have understood the import of Jesus' words. As far as the divine oracles were concerned as unveiling the "heavenly things" in contrast to "earthly things", no one in history was known to have ascended into heaven. It does not mean that Jesus was not aware of the case with Enoch (Gen. 5:24 & Heb. 11:5), or of Elijah (II Kings 2:1 & 11). The import of Jesus' words were in reference to ascending into heaven to bring down the divine revelation for the God's mysteries.

Any Jew listening to Jesus when He spoke those words in John 3:11-13 would immediately remember what Moses said centuries earlier:

For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee,
neither is it far off. It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for
us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? Neither is it beyond
the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us,
that we may hear it, and do it? -- Deut. 30:11-13

This is precisely what the Lord Jesus was making reference to when he spoke to Nicodemus. No one had ascended into heaven to bring down the divine oracles. What this means is conveyed clearly in Romans 10:

But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart,
Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above: )
Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
-- (Rom. 10:6-7)

The context here is very clear from the meaning and significance of the fact that Jesus was speaking to a Jewish scholar (Nicodemus), and the Jews no doubt would have known the meaning of Deut. 30:11-13, and the import of those words explained in Rom. 10:6-7. Besides, that this thought is not something new in the NT, we turn to Prov. 30 --

I neither learned wisdom, nor have the knowledge of the holy. Who hath ascended up into heaven,
or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment?
who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son's name,
if thou canst tell? Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.
Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar. -- Prov. 30:3-6

From the above, two things stand out clearly: (a) the OT patriarchs understood that the knowledge of the holy was yet uncommitted to man; (b) they knew there was Someone called the Son of God ('what is his son's name').

Many Bible commentators make the mistake of taking Jesus' words in John 3:13 as pointing to His ascension after He would rise from the dead. But that is a weak premise, because the preceding contexts do not bear it out in precisely that context. Rather, Jesus made the statement about the ascension immediately following His words contrasting earthly and heavenly things. Nicodemus' surprised reaction as well indicates that what he heard from Jesus was entirely outstanding.

So, what "new" thing was it that was so heavenly to have astonished Nicodemus? The very same thing that has been preached since Jesus' resurrection:

Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again,
he cannot see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when
he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? Jesus answered,
Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter
into the kingdom of God. -- John 3:3-5

In what way was this the heavenly revelation that was not given to anyone before Jesus came? Certainly, it was prophesied that God would give of His Spirit (Joel 2; Zech. 12:10); but the intrinsic nature of how this was to be offered as well as who were to be included, had yet to wait until Christ came from heaven to earth in the Incarnation (John 1:14). That is why it is said:

All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake
he not unto them: That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying,
I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from
the foundation of the world. (Matt. 13:34-35)

And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning
of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ (Eph. 3:9)

God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by
the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed
heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds. (Heb. 1:1-2)

All these go to show us that when Christ made the statement of John 3:13, He was speaking in reference to that which no man had ascended to bring down, prior to His coming. The case with Enoch and Elijah were could not be regarded as "ascending" in this context (though they were taken to heaven); but notice also what Jesus said in that verse: "no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven". The very One who came down had brought the divine mystery that had been kept unrevealed in ages past (Eph. 3:9). That was what Jesus meant by "ascended" in John 3:13.

babs787:
1. Is the above statement spoken by John or God

Spoken by Jesus.

babs787:
2. Is Jesus really the only begotten son of God?

Yep.

babs787:
3. Was Jesus 'begotten' or 'made' by God?

Neither.

babs787:
Thank you

You're welcome.

babs787:
Far from that, I am not perturbed. Am just worried about this your brother who has been threatening all these while. He never knew that nothing moves babs

You're not moved. . . but you're worried!! Okay. At least, you were so badly shaken. . . even though you're not perturbed! We hear!

babs787:
Begging who, you? You are not serious.
I am tired of your cry, please do whatever you want to do. You should read your posts before accusing me of same and I don't give a damn about who you may be.

Okay, relax. It was quite a good laugh you gave to have been so terrified! I go catch you again, and your eyes go red!!

250 is quite a large number to discount out of 6000 verses of the Koran/Qur'an.

Nevermind the TORAH and the INJIL of the Qur'an which they have themselves affirmed are lost!

davidylan:
I hope that answers your question.

Nope. . . it does not, will not, cannot ever be, and never has been in the past. Why? Because they lost their own books! 

@oyb,

oyb:
ahem:

the recycling continues!

You don cough finish?

Na today you sabi these guys?? 

Watch: he's coming back with his harvested vexations from Ahmad Deedat et al.


SOS. Confirm my assertion! 

oyb,

Often Muhammad wished to die, but he would again feel the call and the command of his Lord which dispelled such ideas.

What do you understand by the word "OFTEN"?? When someone is quite frequently in that kind of condition, could you help us with another one of those links to dribble round this??

oyb:
The skeptical view of Christianity as irrational is supported by some Christians, who regard reason as irrelevant to their faith, or consider that their faith transcends rationality. . . ."[citation needed]

Isaiah 1:18 -- "Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool."

oyb:
or should the atheists in the houise come and tell us why they left christianity?

Yep, they're free to do so. . . as long as they won't forget telling us how they also became fulltime committed Muslims!

muhsin,

see the thread:

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-33222.448.html#msg840687

@Babs,

Relax. You don't know how much you made guys laugh in my office!! It was quite a good cha-cha for you, and you were so predictable to have reacted. . . snivelling till your hands were shaking on your keyboard!

Lol, mrpataki. I no fit laugh finish. It's been a long time I ever saw someone so badly frightened!

babs787:
You are still here crying. Thats the normal response of a frustrated guy . You know that babs grew up in Motor park and you are talking to him, don't you know that you have also turned to tout?

That is usually what touts do - conversion by illiteracy.

babs787:
Brother if you don't want to reason, my question goes again:

Do we say the bible in existence is the same as the one given to Jesus?

See?? I deliberately let you tighten your own noose on yourself!!
Oh, babs, you're so predictable!! Where in the Qur'an is it said that Jesus was given the bible??

babs787:
Professor/Deacon/Pope Gwain am tired of your empty thread , do whatever you want to do jare and let's hear word.

Hehe. . . this bobo is seeing double; so tey you no know whether na thread or threat dey shake you!

We have an adage that if someone is half-dead after a fright from nothing, he/she begins to placate another with flattering titles! You don't need to take a heart attack and call me Professor! It only betrays your inferiority complex.

davidylan:
Have you ridiculous escapist answered the primary question of this thread? Why the decietful attempt to divert the real issue by "asking" another oft recycled "question"?

@davidylan,

He's too embarrassed by the fallacy he tried to hoodwink his readers with, by posting the falling eye-pupil that have been soundly rubbished and sent back to his bin where he picked it up from:

              http://al-jazeerah.net/sami_zaatri/miracles_of_prophet_muhammad.htm

                           (HOW THE PROPHET (SAAS) REPLACED QATADA’S EYE)

Where are the miracles of Muhammad in the Qur'an? It's quite simple: if they're no in the Qur'an; they're not outside the Qur'an!  

davidylan:
Where did christians tell you that Jesus Christ was given the bible? Is that not the lie Muhammad sold to you blind bats that allah gave "books" to all the prophets? Are you not the same hypocrites who claim the books given to Jesus and the prophets were lost? What "question" are you then asking?

He's asked this questions repeatedly in other threads; and I only toyed with his low IQ to see if he would come round seeing his blunders. But no. . . his type can't reason, so what do you expect??