₦airaland Forum

Aye!

@mukina2,

Personally, I don't really feel that the basic reason why people post texts from the Hadith and the Qur'an is out of malice. Biblical verses have also been posted out of contexts and Christians have tried as best they could to defend the various concerns thereto.

Have you asked why no one has bothered to debate Hindus or people of other faiths as much as is going on between Christians and Muslims? Maybe here on Nairaland, links have been posted to show some very unacceptable practices in Islam. The Muslim leaders would like to have us quite, but will not be tolerant to other faiths. Why do such situations occur among most Muslims?

mrpataki:
@ Gwaine,
Sorry I just understood your response.
Thanks God bless. Thought it was the other way round.

Okay. Blessings.

@mrpataki,

My "nope" was in direct response to your question: "Is it wrong for christians to go into Politics?"

The reason why I believe that God is directly involved in the governments of the world is because I see things a bit differently. The deists believe in an "intelligent supermind" who is the first-cause of the universe; but they do not believe that 'he' is involved in the affairs of men! I'm not one of those who see things as either this or that, but rather accept the fact that God is directly involved in the affairs of men! Infact, the word used is: "the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men" (Dan. 4:17)!

The idea that God is not involved in the political processes of civil governance is a weak thought. I trust that such texts as Rom. 13:1-7 should help shape our thinking about Christians involved in civil ruling. May I ask a few questions:

  1. Should Christians become lawyers?

  2. Should Christians become Administrators?

  3. Should Christians become Accountants and Economists?

If Christians can be any one of the above, at what point do such vocations become entirely disconnected from civil governance?

My submission is that Christians can and should pursue political vocations if they feel this calling upon their hearts. As long as we are called to be the light of the world, is the political arena a forbidden dungeon that Christians should never influence?

Well, that's my opinion anyway. . . but I feel that God has called us to be light in every aspect of our earthly lives.

Regards.

Good question. My answer: Nope.

@Analytical and 4get_me, great testimonies! God continue to bless you both.

You know that Arabs - they are famous for such bedtime stories as Ali Baba and the Forty Thieves, and The Arabian Nights. All good tales, no doubt. But this Sheik seems to be a recent entry - much enjoyed.

Well, these cases go to show that the proponents have no revelation of God's Word and only oushed their own agenda to disastrous ends. Lord have mercy!

Great, Seun. When people want to discuss Christianity from the Bible based on the teachings of Jesus Christ, we are all ears and willing enough for them to show us where David, Joshua and the rest of the Patriarchs commanded us to go and kill in the name of Jesus Christ!

Some people may like to defend Muhammad's career along the lines of Judaism; but our appeal has always been to keep things in clear contexts so that people don't misconstrue Islam for Judaism, much less Christianity!

Regards.

nuru:
It is not true that Muslims are not tolerant of dialogs, what Muslims hate is express disrespect for anything Islam. Call to the way of God with wisdom and fine teachings and when you need to argue, you do it beautifully.

I really don't know from where you chaps get all this crap-talk of the 21st century! Was Muhammad tolerant of dialogue with people of other faiths before he launched a massive attack on them for rejecting his calim to be a prophet? Was the "bedouine errand-boy for allah" respectful of anything about the faiths of other people before he labelled them as rats, pigs and swines??

Qur'an 7:166 - "When in their insolence they transgressed (all) prohibitions, We said to them: "Be ye apes, despised and rejected.""

Bukhari 4.524: Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, "A group of Israelites were lost. Nobody knows what they did. But I do not see them except that they were cursed and changed into rats, for if you put the milk of a she-camel in front of a rat, it will not drink it, but if the milk of a sheep is put in front of it, it will drink it." I told this to Ka'b who asked me, "Did you hear it from the Prophet ?" I said, "Yes." Ka'b asked me the same question several times.; I said to Ka'b. "Do I read the Torah? (i.e. I tell you this from the Prophet.)"

Abu Dawud, Book 32, Number 4028: "Narrated Abu Amir or Abu Malik: AbdurRahman ibn Ghanam al-Ash'ari said: Abu Amir or Abu Malik told me--I swear by Allah another oath that he did not believe me that he heard the Apostle of Allah say: There will be among my community people who will make lawful (the use of) khazz and silk. Some of them will be transformed into apes and swine."

This is what nuru said: "Call to the way of God with wisdom and fine teachings and when you need to argue, you do it beautifully." The above summarizes how beautifully Muhammad argued with people, as well as being tolerant to dialogue!

Bobbyaf:
He must have known about the possible reaction from muslem extremists. Thats the real issue here.

The real issue is your admission that there are Muslim extremists who are ready to "react". What does that say about the foundation of Islam? As far as we know, Islam was founded on violence and perversion of a wicked kind - and it is the cornerstone of the Muslim faith as taught and chiselled on the pages of the Qur'an.

Christians have endured the wicked slanders of both moderate and extremist Muslims slurring the Bible, the Trinity and our blessed hope. They did not have to wait for the Pope to make any inferrence about the roots of Islam before they launched their derision - right from Muhammad to the present age.

Sensitive or not, Muslims who follow the real mindset of Muhammad know that the bedouine errand-boy was a killer and a lewd pervert. That is the real issue that needs no cosmetic dress up in political correctness. If the same thing is parallel in the Person, work and teaching of the Lord Jesus Christ, then you have an issue. Otherwise, there's just no sense in trying to call excuse to the Spanish Inquisition to euphemize Islam. It is even worse than whatever the Pope stated.

Y'all are simply super!

Did I hear someone call me??

@tafari,

Sorry, that wasn't my position or opinion - blame it on Britannica Online, because if you even bothered to check it out, you'll see I was quoting them. That AMORC is said to combine elements of occultism is very strong language that should warn any unsuspecting wayfarer, so don't try to dress it up.

True talk, Donnie.

I was just wondering why it was taking so long for 4get_me to post some rib-crackers about Muhammad's crimes. It's good to know that he was slow to stir up any strife or hatred (been in touch with him). Anyways, our muslim friends should reconsider the tenets of what they're pursuing.

Correct guy - do that pronto.

This rush-hour business you're advertizing is not going to help your career, whatever that is. It's easy - just go to LASU, UNILAG or NSUKKA and hola your desire there: "Who go marry this bobo wey wan jand in a matter of days??" (Don't forget the 'must be Igbo' twist to it). Hours after you've experimented, come back and give us some situational report.

No wahala. Bad boys sometimes need to sanitize their thinking. It depends on where you've been looking, and thoughts begin to play on your mind. You know what? You may not have been approaching her from the right angle, and the places you've been 'touching' or trying to touch need some licenced registrations before proceeding any further. If that won't work, take eveseh's advice and "kick" instead of "touch"!

On the other hand, true talk Damsal. You didn't kick this guy hard enough - so, please come back and tell him stuff o jaré. He needs to know the difference between a girl's body and the girl herself.

I've been stalked once, haven't done it myself (don't have the sightest interest), and know some people who've been stalked.

One of my pals quit his babe, and a few days later got a surprising email from some sweet 16. Gave her his number, address, etc - so they arranged to block. Meanwhile, she asked a few questions to be sure he wasn't a cheat:

Q. So, did U really, honestly love your last babe?

A. Well, nah. . . she was nothing - just a past time to fill space.

Q. And why am I different and won't be another past time in your life?

A. You've got so many things she doesn't have. . . like poise, a calm and loving heart, the statistics of Beyunce and. . .

(stalker cuts in)

Q. . . . yeah, and a kissable nose-bridge, a fabulous texture, boobs that stand like Solomon's cousin, etc. I've heard it
before, and it's so shameful your storyline hasn't changed - because that's what you used for Chioma and Ebere!

No need to tell the rest of the story. My pal wan die for him computer with shame!!

I don't think the Rosicrucian Order (AMORC) has a leg to stand on its own as it is a syncretism of various religious ideologies with a slant or twist that leaves a big question mark hanging. One wonders why a movement that dabbles into occultism could be paraded as "nothing evil" - unless the idea is to hide or pretend this aspect of AMORC:

           The teachings of Rosicrucianism combine elements of occultism reminiscent of a variety of religious beliefs and practices.
          (Source: Britannica Online).

She may not be religious, but she really knew what she was talking about. The statistics she offered in her argument are quite persuasive, and those mulla ought to be ashamed of themselves in the way they tried to counter her points.

It's true that the practice of child-brides is a present reality in so many parts of the world, including Nigeria. Most occurences stem from economic or social causes, as you'll find in this slide from the New York Times news feature (click on the highlighted link).

The problem is that when a person who claims to be a 'prophet' follows the precedence of a quizzical culture instead of setting people right according to God's mind, that trend will most probably be held as the norm centuries after, and in most cases would pass as doctrine for that religion. Another example is polygamy that was initially practised by the early Mormons (Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints founded by Joseph Smith in the early 19th century). It passed into Mormon doctrine after several denials by its leaders previously, and then later it was abrogated by a 'revelation'. Even then, a splinter Mormon group still practises polygamy today in the United States, albeit in secrecy.

Certainly, most Muslims (especially in Western civilizations) would agree that, whether in the 15th or 21st century, child-brides are counter productive even in religious circles. Let us note also that some Jewish persuasions believe in the practice of pedophilia (sadly and shamefully so), but those who quickly want to equate that to the excuse of the Muslim practice in some parts of the world should realise just one thing: we are dealing with divine revelations in religions. I haven't read anywhere in the Pentateuch or the OT where God countenanced pedophilia by any Jew. It is simply wrong and should not be promoted.

In the face of this development, voices have not been silent, and several organizations are making concerted efforts to educate the general public that the practice is unhealthy, whether viewed religiously, socially or economically. Some organizations broaden their campaign beyond just the mere fight against pedophilia and child brides, so that the scope of such efforts includes the social ills of disrespect for women, trafficking in women and children for clandestine sex trades, prostitution tourism, etc. It's a whole racket that goes beyond child-sex. What is surprising is that some government authorities have been accused (with evidence) of these criminal activities, such as this report from Coalition Against Trafficking of Women shows (click on link). The same CATW reports that in America the issue is more problematic, including children ranging in age from 6 months to 6 years, being held in "involuntary servitude".

There are several other voices against the trend of the spiralling malady in contemporary Western culture, such as this article ([url=http://www.polygamyinfo.com/plygmedia%2004%20258vsun.htm]"Religious tyrants twist tolerance for their own ends"[/url]) - and guess where? In Canada.

Anyway, pedophilia is wrong by any standard; and particular in religious pursuits and insterests, it is sinister to excuse it under a 'revelation' that passes into doctrine.

Men and women of God are people who know and follow God based on His terms and not theirs. The term is not applied to just about any believer, and wherever it is used in Scripture it points to those who are recognized as leaders in some capacity. We need more men and women of God today, who know and follow God on His terms, and who can lead others to God in authentic worship and service.

@GeekGirl,

I'm not convinced that Muhammad's marrying 6 year old Aisha was a political move - and one would have to wonder if Muhammad was then a Prophet or a Politician.

Second, for a man over 54 years of age to have had carnal knowledge of a 9 year old girl is inexcusable - and the girl in question was NOT of age when it happened!

That's something sweet to say, belloti. But I wish sometimes that your friends would take your advice and not litter the Forum with stuff they don't understand about other people's faith.

Well done - I admire your perseverance. Blessings.

dearie:
what is this world turning into? we are no doubt at the end times. I wonder why 'supposedly highly revered men of God' would feel there is nothing wrong with being gay.

It's sad, but then it only goes to show that God's Word proves true. Such highly-placed MOGs can no longer see or lead others; and when they belch out such surprises (which are no surprises at all - Acts 20:29-30), one should understand that they've lost their God-given vision and are no longer in touch with the Living God. Consequently, they'll see nothing wrong with a whole lot of social issues - homosexuality for the clergy; financial scandals in high places; etc.

There are more people that care for peace in the world than we realise.