₦airaland Forum

jeytee:
Who is this illiterate "bazztad" forming Atheist....maybe your dad wrote it....Idiot!!!...how could someone be drunkenly stupid enough to post this rubbish??..God save your soul...after writing this rubbish you go follow your mama go church on sunday abi??.....oloshi!!!

The average nigerian christain finds it real hard to believe there are atheists.
Why should he go to church? So you believe everyone goes to church?
Why do you say he is "forming" atheist. That you live a fake life, does not mean everyone lives a fake life.
If he says he is an atheist then he is, don't try to make it seem like it is impossible to realize that the bible is full of lies. Sure you see it too but you choose to follow blindly which is your problem.

CoolUsername:
Yeah but God KNOWS everything, right? So then, how can we have complete control over actions? If he truly knows all, he'll know from our birth, whether we'll go to heaven or not. If he doesn't know, then he's not omniscient.

All these characteristics of god are man made. They want god to be omniscient yet hold humans for their actions at the same time. People will do anything to justify their god.
You can see this from the silly replies on this thread. All dodging the question and just bellowing "god is good", "he knows best", "let god be the judge"

CoolUsername:
You're glossing over details here. Did God kill innocent babies I Sodom or what? Was God not about to kill Moses' infant child before Zipporah hastily circumcised him ?

Another good example you just gave up there. I guess christains are just finding it hard to believe god kills babies not caring they are innocent.
You see that even human compassion is greater than god's love. We can't just imagine those babies perishing so we are trying hard to defend god.

This moses' baby's case is another good example. Can someone please tell me what wrong the baby did?

olarwhumy6:
the way pple turn Bible upside down always mak me laff, pls wen reading d Bible next pray for d holy spirit for guidance nd understanding. As I said children who are dedicated to God no evil wil befall them. Ow ar u so sure dey were dedicated? Even if dey were, y didn't deir parent enter d ark nd why were deir parent nt counted among d percentage of righteous Abraham negotiated wiv God wen he want to destroy Sodom? mysterious are d works nd ways of God, it's beyond human reasoning, u dnt knw Wat God did to those children let him b d judge.

Turn bible upside down?
I have not even started showing you the ridiculous things in the bible. You can't answer my question, yet you say I am turning the bible upside down.
Talking of dedication to god. So the babies that perished were obviously not dedicated to god since this was a time when people did as they pleased and only noah was righteous. But how is that the babies fault? This still confirms that many babies will still perish in hell now because god only saves the righteous from his judgement.

chakwa:
I usually encourage people to be open minded, and count possibilities. 1st, babies go to heaven, and even some people who were in the flood made it to heaven finally as 1Pe 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

this is all I need, read the bolded part. So people (including children) went to hell first. That is one fact we have agreed on though they would later get saved after jesus died. Good. So we agree on that. Even babies that don't know their left from right?

1Pe 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

So jesus went to hell to preach to those who were there. Getting more interesting and ridiculous. The time from the flood to jesus time was at least 4000 years. So babies had to stay in hell for 4000 years suffering for what they don't understand. Good.
Lol

1Pe 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. tells us.

So god could only save 8 people. And noah was the only one he found righteous which was the criteria of even saving him and his family in the first place. If noah had been like the rest it is likely god would have destroyed everybody. God never considered babies to be innocent. They died in the flood. They were never considered.
Smh. You are just trying so had to defend god's actions. While skipping they fact that god did something (which I know he didn't anyway) that was cruel.

Let's go on

But even if the bible did not write this, open mindedness would have made you to think of the possibility of people repenting when the rain started and they where about to die.

so the rain started, people repented. Can babies repent? Do they even know what is going on? Am I talking about people who can repent or babies?
And even though they repented as you claim. They still perished anyway. Or did your own bible tell you that god stop the flood?
Getting interesting (hope you see how you are making a fool of yourself)

As for the issue of free from sin: this is the full verse that would have made some people to laugh at your ignorance that you upheld so valiantly (except me. that is why i encourage open mindedness. it is animalistic to laugh at people as explained later).

You shld also be laughing at her ignorance.
I asked a simple question and she said once people die they aRe free from their sins. So to her that makes all babies go to heaven. If that is true why can't shekau and Isis members go to heaven when they die since that is her excuse for babies making heaven. Or you have problem reading and understanding?[/quote]Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Rom 6:8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
Rom 6:9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
Rom 6:10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
Rom 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Rom 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
Rom 6:13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
This verse 7 therefore means that just as those who are dead physicaly cannot lie, steal, kill, fornicate etc, christians should also be like that. simple.[/quote]Thank you for the explanation. So jessica is wrong with her own explanation. This makes more sense. People cannot sin after they die. But how does this answer the question I am asking here? Why did god destroy babies in sodom and at the great flood. Why did he not find them worthy to be saved? Abeg, how does this passage you and Jessica are quoting answer my question?
You guys are jokers indeed.

As for the issue of the existence of God, I am a medical student. things around me opened my mind to possibilities. A patient was diagnosed HIV 1 and HIV 2 positive. the sickness was already manifesting because the CD4 count was low- (low immune response to illness). After a relative of mine (a doctor) finally prayed for her, she went for the test again as she noticed improvement in her health. she was HIV negative. COnfused, she confirmed the test again, same result. I am a type of person that i prefer to believe after seeing so when
i embark on a journey, there is no need to turn back. This kind of things blow away the minds of those in the medical field including the person that prayed for her. ANother example was cancer of the cervix that was healed etc.

If you tell an animal that a vehicle exists that can move faster than the speed of sound, you might get laughter(hyena) or be eaten alongside. but it doesnt mean that that vehicle doesnt exist. I believe that insulting one another (bunch of confused people, you are decieving yourself) over unconfirmed issues, is animalistic. Humans should act intelligently. everyone deserve to be heard. I like your questions, they deserve explanations @Hard mirror, but be open minded.

As I said earlier, you have succeeded in explaining NOTHING. You are talking about god existing and miracles. You are talking about jesus going to hell to preach to people. You are talking about people being free from sin once they die cos they can't sin, ARE WE GOING TO BE JUDGED FOR LIFE WE LIVE AFTER DEATH OR FOR ACTIONS of our lives now? Stop going off topic.
You sound dull for a medical student.
Simple question. Why did god destroy everybody including babies during the flood? Why same at sodom and gomorrah? Even though babies are innocent and suffered unjustly, not knowing what what going on?
Simple question, see all the irrelevant passages you are quoting.

If you were a soldier will you evade Isis camp and kill the babies along with the adults? If we humans can be compassionate, how much more a all loving god, all powerful. Cldnt he have deviced a better way to handle the situation?

I repeat. You all sound ridiculous in your desperation to defend god and you end up not making sense or addressing the issue

olarwhumy6:
God is a merciful father, he cares nd love little children so much read ur Bible well nd see d proof. So why would he destroy Wat he love nd cherish? Children are God's heritage. That's d reason Christians dedicate their children to God wen they are little. when u dedicate ur child to God den leave d rest to him no even wil befall him even death wil flee. But babies dat are nt dedicated to God... Y nt let God b d judge?

Hehehehe.. Na wa o.
Can you even hear yourself?
He cares and loves little children very much. Smh
So if I care and love you I will drown you in a flood while I save animals and insects? I will let you burn with wicked sinners in sodom?
What a way of showing love.

Jessicha:
You are not okay .


Meanwhile , the bold is a lie ... Upon death , a dead human is [size=24] Free from his sins [/size] - Romans 6:7 , righteous justice dont purnish a free /an innocent person .

Let me quote this for future reference.
Bunch of confused people. Today you say people will perish if they are not born again, tomorrow you say he who is dead is free from his sins.
Smh
I just dey laugh. Indeed religion tells a lot about people's intelligence

chakwa:
SENSE

Babies would go to heaven because they have not sinned. Just like animals that do not have the ability to think and choose good or bad. I am not saying animals make heaven o! What i am saying is when bible says all have sinned, he is not talking of creatures that dont have choice but people who had the ability to chose and still sinned.

Understand this. sincerely, any rational christian who believe they would make it to heaven would have to answer this question- Why do you thank God that you are still on earth. MAny people who do not have this reasoning would therefore complain and shout when they hear that children were killed.

In the Genesis, you might notice that some promises to Abraham where not fufilled immediately because the sins of the amorites where not yet full. God still gave them chance to have a change of heart for a long time. People like Balaam and Jethro and Rahab heeded initially. Dont you wish that theives, rapists, murderers stop their practices or be seperated from the public(jail etc)? Well God gave time and when the time was up, He judged them and didnt allow the children to be orphans on earth. instead He ordered that they should be transferred to the life beyond-glory. Also, there are some bad things that are going to happen to people (because 2+2=4 wat you sow you reap) but it is completely your choice. if Judas has changed his mind before his cup of transgression filled up, his story would have been different so he wasnt given the grace to repent like Peter. you can check 2Pet2:20-21. Judas had been a thief, long before the betrayal. Maybe thinking Jesus would use His power to escape.

Concerning predestination. NOte this; God gave man charge and dominion over this earth. Meaning it is humans that should decide things on this earth. there is always an option to call Him to help. Imagine you were give a house, after leaving in the house for 30 years, someone comes and hijack it suddenly without informing you; you would be left stranded obviously. same thing, God cannot do things on this earth without a man been involved.

No one is predestined to go to hell, but many people are predestined to give glory to God, whether in sin or not, like pharoah. God choses the best. Someone that can lose his birthright to food is not fit to rule a nation and so would be chosen for lesser duties, if not, he can sell his nation if they would give him 5 billion dollars every year. infact, it is predestination that helps the christian race. Because God had to look out for the person with the best chance of doing something positive in this fractured world. SO there is no unrighteousness in God's selection.

The reason why there is problem on earth is because men of power did not stop the problems. to find out if you have power, decree a thing to happen on this earth and see if it would happen (ask and you suppose to recieve) . If you dont have power, note this, Some things have to get out of your life and some things have to come in. Imagine that someone who has problem with lust for various women is given superman like powers like xray vision. obviously, many people would get pregnant in addition to the good he did. Hear this clearly- Men of power from God are HOLY PEOPLE. That is why atheists should fight pastors who teach that you do not need holiness to see God-Heb 14:12. Also Rom 2:7[i] To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour [/b]and [b]immortality, eternal life.[/i] .
To become holy, pray for grace. this is grace, it teaches you to deny ungodliness and lusts- titus 2:11-12. you know 2+2 is 4 because you where taught. same thing. you would know how to be holy if you were taught. If you are not taught, do not claim to be holy or full of grace.

Also think b4 writing. baptism does not cleanse from sin, if not israelites wont sacrifice and Jesus wont need to come. Also see 1Pe 3:21: The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: .The baptism that saves is the answering of a good conscience towards God not the washing of the filth of the flesh. This is why babies would make heaven because they have a good conscience.

One of Jesus last prayers on earth is that christians should know God- John 17. Any doctrine you believe in, go and find out the reason behind it. do not ever think God cannot help you understand His ways. You would make many people laugh if when you face judgement seat, you explain that the reason why you had a strong evil belief is because your pastor or grandmother told you. In all your getting, get understanding.

I appreciate your effort in trying to defend god. You tried.
So does this make the babies in the time of noah sinners or what. Or why did god not gather babies into the ark? At least he cared enough to save noah's family even though it was only noah the bable said he found righteous. Why didn't he extend his mercy to babies and children too? Or were they not innocent?
You keep deceiving yourself. The truth is right there for you to see, but you just must make god look good no matter what.
You have not answered my query.

Jessicha:
Compare the underlined lie with the truth below

" He who has died is Free from his sin " Roman 6:7 .

So once shekau and his boko haram boys die, they are free from their sin. Hmmm...
I keep loving christainity. Bunch of confused people.
U keep trying to defend god and end up showing your folly.
So I as an atheist will be free from my sin once I die (according to your logic). Interesting. So why are you guys wasting time preaching jesus. We don't need him then.

Don't forget god never mentioned babies and children when he destroyed the world during noah's time and sodom too. Yet he cared about noah, yet he cared about lot. It is obvious god does not consider babies to be innocent.
Remember when god and abraham were discoursing about sodom. God said if he found 50 righteous people down and down they went. I am sure there were more than 50 children in sodom and gomorrah. Obviously god did not find them righteous.

You know why? Because the bible is man made, humans make mistake. They can't write a perfect story, you will always contradict yourself trying to defend the bible.

TrajansKong:
Again, this is correct teaching according to Holy Writ. Unbaptised babies will be cast into the pit to burn for all time. Yahweh is good. His justice is perfect. Who amongst us can doubt this?

As if it's the babies fault it was not baptized

samted:
but is hell eternal or just for a while?

I don't know. You tell me. So how long does one stay in hell?

samted:
this is the reason babies should be baptized...to cleanse them from their original sins.

The best answer so far. It is unfortunate many christains don't baptize their babies.

Anyway as much as what you said SEEMED to make sense, I want you to explain the rationale behind judging babies as sinners if for reasons beyond the babies control, the parents refused to baptize the baby.

In the example I gave in the Op, those children perished because of their parents sins, their innocence never mattered to god.

Imagine, god even tried to save the inlaws of Lot. He NEVER tried to save any innocent child. He never gave them a chance. They were not in the program. At least for him to even pretend like he cared about them. Yet he made attempts to save the unrighteous son in-laws of Lot that were grown up and could be held accountable for their actions.

Take a moment to think of this.

I thought people said children come from the Lord? Didn't he create them? Why is lot's family more important that the innocent children that can't decide write or wrong? Is he not their god too? Why did he make them in the first place when he who is all knowing knew this is how they will perish?

Wenebadu:
Op na wah oh.......... dis one na ur own imagination oh

You should know I didn't write the bible. Or did your bible say any other person escaped apart from Lot, his daughters and wife?

At this point I must say, it is very obvious to even fanatical christains that their is a problem with their believe. No one has been able to refute the facts I presented.

Are babies going to heaven or hell?

No straight answer.


Why is it that god did not give a damn about the innocence of children in past judgments such as the great flood, sodom and gomorrah, isrealites wiping out all their enemies etc


It is obvious that it's wee humans are the ones trying to assume babies go to heaven.

So according to the bible, what is the purpose of life? When even babies enjoy no sympathy from god. Why send them to earth when he can see the future and he knows they will die as babies?

Why should an all powerful, all LOVING god use fire to resolve his problem with sodom including innocent animals and children?

the bible says ALL the men of sodom gathered at Lots house, yet the bible conveniently excused Lots inlaws from being among ALL the men. How can a righteous man offer his virgin daughters to ALL the men of a town to be raped? Is that the best solution he could come up with?

flyingdutchman:
AS AN ORDINARY MAN, MAYBE I WOULD BE BOTHERED. BUT, GOD CREATED ALL ANGELS. HE IS GREATER THAN ANYTHING OR PRINCIPALITY. I'M UNDER HIS HEDGE. THE LORD REBUKE YOU BROS! IF YOU TRY ME, I'VE GOT ONLY ONE WORD: [size=16pt]JESUS[/size] BOW!

Don't dare. It could be risky. Satan is no ordinary angel. Even god had trouble casting him from heaven.
Back to the matter. So you have nothing to say about the wickedness of your god?
Even lucifer is not this wicked

flyingdutchman:
SATAN, LET GO OF THIS ONE. HIS SOUL IS NOT FOR YOU

I am lucifer! Be careful! The battles in your life are more than enough don't invite more to yourself.
I have spoken!

TrajansKong:
Excellent point, my broda! I can see there are some on this thread whose faith is weak.

The Lord can do no wrong. His will is supreme. The babes and infants of Sodom and Gomorrah were not innocent. They inherited the sins of their forefathers. Therefore it is only right that they have been tortured in hellfire for thousands of years and that they shall roast screaming in unending agony.

Pay no mind to the false and faint-hearted Christians of Nairaland. They seek to question or second guess the Most High. This itself is a sin which deserves nothing less than the flames eternal! Your doctrine is sound, HardMirror. Your faith is strong and your scriptural erudition faultless. Continue to bear true witness to God's Word.

I look forward to hearing your further observations on Sodom and God's perfect justice thereupon.

I will.
I am having some challenges right now. The prayers from flyingdutchman is affecting me. It is as if fire is burning me and a spirit is trying to leave my body! Help!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

flyingdutchman:
[size=16pt]FOR SATAN IS THE ACCUSER OF ALL BRETHREN"; WAS THAT NOT HOW YOU DECEIVED EVE BY ASKING HER QUESTIONS ABOUT THE FORBIDDEN TREE? NOW, GET THEE BEHIND US SATAN! [/size]

Thanks sir.
I am right behind you. I will follow you for the rest of your life. Hehehehehehe

flyingdutchman:
[size=16pt]ITS SOOOOO EASY TO IDENTIFY DISGRUNTLED SATAN! HE TRIES TO BRING THE ENVIED MAN DOWN WITH HIM. JESUS SAID " IF YE BE LIKE THESE LITTLE CHILDREN, YE SHALL ENTER THE KINGDOM OF GOD" SATAN WWHHHHOOOOOOOOO! NTOOR! [/size]

www.nairaland.com/2876811/confession-atheits-work-satan

I already confessed. Satan our father sent us.
We want to mislead people. You seem to be spirit filled. Good for you

Oya abeg, address the issue I raised. Why shld innocent babies go to hell. Because it is obvious from your post that you agree with me, but just seeking to distract people from the issue I brought forth

The passage you quoted does not address the many times god had destroyed children and commanded that everybody including babies be killed.

Yes!
I am an atheits. Don't get deceived. We know what we are doing.
We are just trying to mislead people.
Many of us are possessed by the spirit of rebellion from our master lucifer.

Christains that are steadfast and have the Holy Spirit can see into our lies and see satan using us.

Be warned.

#thewaychristainspercieveatheists

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahah!!!!!!!!!

omasco92:
Point of correction

You are not the judge.

God is the Judge.

This is the word of the LORD

Rom 9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

Going by the bolded, so god will just look at a baby and decide, "hmmm.. I don't like his nose. Throw him in hell!" And at another and say, " oh, what lovely eyes, keeping this one. Going to heaven!"
Have you forgotten that even from the womb god had sealed the fate of essau. God decided to choose abraham just like that out of many people he could choose and reveal himself to. He just decides to destroy people he does not like.
So yeah, so sorry for these babies that can't yet understand they have to be born again to make heaven. What a pity.

omasco92:
Point of correction

You are not the judge.

God is the Judge.

This is the word of the LORD

Rom 9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

We are saying the same thing. God is the judge and he deemed it fit to destroy sodom and gomorrah with fire even the babies and children that have no idea of the wrong they committed.

So you agree with me that babies are going to hell going by the way god does his things

More on sodom coming

If I asked, "do you think a 1 year old, 2 year old, maybe 5 month old or 1day old baby would go to hell if it dies, what would you say?" Most likely you would say NO.
But from accounts in the bible the answer is YES.

God obviously does not care if you are 1 day old or 1000years old. So far you are not part of his "Chosen" then you are up for destruction.

Have you ever wondered why god destroyed the whole sodom and gomorrah without sparing anyone? Or are there no babies in sodom?

Answer is yes, there are babies there.

Are the babies also sinners?

Hmmm.. If you say no, then that means god unjustly destroyed them


If you say yes, then that means even now if a child dies, it is going to hell, because it is a sinner. For ALL have sinned. And don't forget christainity teaches us that we inherited sin from adam and eve.

Either YES or NO, it is certain babies are going to hell since they are not born-again.

Or what do you think?

Maybe this is the reason why many babies are starving and dying of hunger while god is blessing some with private jets, luxury cars, mansions etc. He does not work by feeling, being an innocent baby does not matter to him. God is good! All the time! All the time! God is good!