₦airaland Forum

alBHAGDADI:
What kind of daft fellow is this?

Where did I say no man ascended to heaven? I only said no man ascended to heaven to bring good news down to earth. This means all those who ascended didn't go for the purpose of bring good news down to earth, that's why they remain in heaven.

According to your understanding of the verse, Jesus was the only one who ascended to heaven during his time, which must have been before his death, burial and resurrection. Now, tell us when did he ascended to heaven before he died

Failure to answer the question will show you why you got the verse wrong.

Oya answer.

alBHAGDADI:
When taken out of context, the verse may say what you have pointed out. But when put in context, it doesn't say what you are trying to make it say.

I have explained the context for you using the previous and succeeding verses, but as usual you decide to still cling to how JW deceived you with that one verse which they took out of context.

And to your question, Jesus didn't ascend to heaven to bring good news. He came down from heaven with it. That's why he said no man ascended to bring it down, that he's the one that brought it down from heaven.

If man could go up to heaven to get it, then Jesus won't have come down with it.

Emusan:
You're the real Olodo....

I wonder why you people will just pick one verse or part of a verse and draw conclusion on it....

Do the previous verses agree with what you're saying?

What is Jesus addressing in his statement before making such point?

alBHAGDADI:
Like the good news. No one ascended to heaven to get it and bring back to earth. Even when Moses when he received the ten commandments and laws didnt ascend to heaven to get it and bring it down. Only Jesus came down from heaven with the heavenly things.

alBHAGDADI:
As usual, when they can't stand a bunch of verses in harmony, they try to use one verse taken out of context to negate one's post.

Your failure is that you didnt read the preceding verse so as to get the context of John 3:13.

Jesus wasn't saying no one has ever been to heaven. Rather, he was saying that no one has gone up there to get heavenly things and brought it back to earth. He says he's the only one who can speak of heavenly things because he's the one who came down from heaven.

alBHAGDADI:
As usual, when they can't stand a bunch of verses in harmony, they try to use one verse taken out of context to negate one's post.

Your failure is that you didnt read the preceding verse so as to get the context of John 3:13.

Jesus wasn't saying no one has ever been to heaven. Rather, he was saying that no one has gone up there to get heavenly things and brought it back to earth. He says he's the only one who can speak of heavenly things because he's the one who came down from heaven.

John 3:12-13
12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?
13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.


Read verse 8-10

8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?
10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?

In verse 8, Jesus was using earthly things to describe heavenly things, yet Nicodemus still couldn't grasp as seen in verse 9.

This made Jesus point out to him in verse 9 that it is awful that Nicodemus being a master of Israel doesn't even understand earthly things.

Finding it difficult to even grasp earthly things, how will he now understand heavenly things which only Jesus brought down from heaven because no man has ascended to heaven on a purpose to go bring such down to earth.

Hope you get it now.

alBHAGDADI:
This question actually shows why the gospel preached by your organization is false and a work based salvation gospel.

You want to know if Abraham and the Old Testament saints went to heaven without the coming, death, burial and resurrection of Jesus.

Your believe is that one has to believe in Jesus before he or she can make heaven. That means those who died before Jesus came to earth cant make heaven or will have to wait for the resurrection. You are funny.

Do you think salvation started after Jesus Christ came to earth? Mankind has been getting saved from Abel and Abraham's days. Before I explain that, let me first ensure you understand something.

Hope you know the word FAITH mean BELIEVE.

Now, how do we make Heaven or have everlasting life? It is by faith/believe in Jesus who is God.

John 3:16 (KJV)
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Did Abraham believe God?

Romans 4:3
For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

Did Abel have faith/believe in God?

Hebrews 11:4
By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.

The bolded part above shows that Abel still speaks today despite being dead. That debunks your soul sleep false doctrine and shows that he is alive in heaven.

Below is Paul saying we get saved through faith in God just as Abel, Abraham and the old testament saints did.

Ephesians 2:8-9
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

All the prophets before the coming of Jesus Christ believed in him and also witnessed about him. Isaiah, David, Moses, Daniel, John the Baptist etc all preached about Jesus which shows they believed in him.

Acts 10:43
43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

Now, juxtapose what the prophets preached about with the verse below.


John 3:16 (KJV)
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Clearly, their believe gave them everlasting life which is why they are in heaven. But according to you, they are totally dead and nowhere because you don't believe anyone is in heaven. That means you have called Jesus a liar. Remember he said he will give all those who believe in him everlasting life.

John 10:28 (KJV)
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

The Bible verse below is telling we believers that we have that eternal life now. This means we won't wait till resurrection till we get it. We have it already that is why we go straight to heaven where fellow believers like Abel and Abraham are.

1 John 5:13 (KJV)
13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

If we have to go unconscious for a while before getting that eternal life on ressurection day, then the above verse lied when it said we already have it.

Have you been schooled today or the robotic programming of JW couldn't allow you understand my post?

Jozzy4:
U see that shallow one called shadeyinka that said no single reference to Hell as Grave in the NT , little knowledge did not let him know the Sheol he admit as Grave is the same as Hades .

Jozzy4:
He didn't set eternal life in their heart, u have confess yourself that every Soul LIVes ( LIFE ) eternally. Meaning Jesus didn't give any eternal life, we already have it

Jesus is ashamed of you

Jozzy4:
Good question!

Did they make heaven without Jesus ?

Cc: aLBHAGDADI, shadeyinka . since their spirit make heaven before Jesus

alBHAGDADI:
Mugu.

You just asked me a question and expect me to answer when I don't even know the intention behind the question. It's not as if we've been debating before. It's just like someone coming here and all of a sudden starts asking me what's the difference between rice and beans. Even though I know the answer, I won't answer him because I don't know why he's asking. We never had any build up of talk together that will make me say made him ask the question.

Here you are saying my answer will expose me. Expose me of what? What and what did me and you discuss that made you ask me that question?

And look who's talking. Go and ask your fellow Jehovah's False Witnesses the amount of questions from me they are yet to answer.

alBHAGDADI:
You can't jump in from nowhere and start asking me questions to which I don't know the motive. Stay your point clear or stop quoting me.

alBHAGDADI:
Clam down and tell me... What is your point exactly?

alBHAGDADI:
What's your point?

alBHAGDADI:
At the point their spirit left their body rendering it dead.

James 2:26
For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

alBHAGDADI:
You didn't read my post at all.



Are you daft? You lack comprehension. What Jesus simply meant was that yes the dead will resurrect but that doesn't mean God is the God of the dead because Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are alive in heaven. This makes God the God of the living. He wasn't saying it is when they resurrect that God will be the God of the living. He's simply saying His father is the God of the living because Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are alive. But according to you, your own God is the God of the dead because you believe Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are DEAD. This makes you a Jehovah's False Witness

Mathew 22:31-33
31 But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,
32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.
33 And when the multitude heard this, they were astonished at his doctrine.

ChristianNorth:
Even Jesus didn't know even as a God. Trinity is too simple to understand but you guys are just being mischievous.

ChristianNorth:
It is a mystery. It doesn't mean the doctrine doesn't have basic tenets.

Three different persons yet they are one and co-internal. This means the Father is the same as the Son, he is the same as the Spirit while Jesus is the same as the Holy Spirit.

For instance, Isaiah called Jesus the eternal father, Jesus said, I and my father are one. 1 Cor 3:17 says "Now the Lord (Jehova) is that Spirit and where the spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

In fact there are over 15 verses that prove Jehovah is the same as the Holy Spirit.

Jesus said in John 14 "I will not leave you comfortless, I will come to you again" He is Holy Spirit.

In the Gospel of John 13:20, Jesus tells his disciples that “whoever receives the Holy Spirit receives Jesus and whoever receives Jesus receives God who sent him in their hearts”.

Despite this co-internality, they are different persons and they are not equals. This is the mystery.

ChristianNorth:
Because of the following portions in the Bible.

1. Jesus is the first born of all creations and through him everything that was made was made. This shows that Jesus was created.

2. And He gave him (Jesus) all the powers and authority in Heaven. This shows Jesus derives his powers from a superior power.

3. Father if you will, let this cup pass over me. This shows that there is a will that supercedes that of Jesus.

4. My father judges no one, but has committed all judgments to the son. Of course, a father is a greater than the son.

5. I do the will of Him that sent me. Jesus takes order and he is responsible to that supreme one.

There are over a 100 verse that shows the supremacy of Jehovah.

ChristianNorth:
Remove co-equal because no christian denomination believes that Jesus is the supreme being. He is a God, the second in the Godhead and has all the attributes of the father in fullness.

ChristianNorth:
I don't think any Christian denomination is claiming that Jesus is Supreme God.

The crux of my argument is Trinity. If Jesus is a God, then Trinity is. Since he is, then the doctrine of trinity is valid.

CAPTIVATOR:
Let's answer a fool to show him he isn't wise.




God must have breast and penis too since humans are in his image . brain de.ad individual



Luke 24:39 - Spirit does not have flesh ( like Tongue is ) and bone ( teeth )

zodiakzax:
.....

You have obviously failed to address my points, so let me put it back so you can drink water and read them again. Obviously your head is aching from reading so take a deep breath and read again.. but before that let me answer as I am good at reading your posts and carefully answering everything you throw at me.



In the likeness of men? You said plural,

Well As block headed as you are, if men isn't referring to mankind or human being then I will be as foolish and block headed as you are to also say Adam wasn't alone in the garden, He was with Eve two perfect human beings, so plural works for me..

Oooooo block headed JW will then say because they said men it's a male figure and not female. that's how silly you sound..anyways

NIV Phil 2:7
rather, he made himself nothing by taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness.


Phil 2:7

Good News Translation
Instead of this, of his own free will he gave up all he had, and took the nature of a servant. He became like a human being and appeared in human likeness

So there we have it, likeness of men is indeed human beings. Be careful how your answer bruv, you might just insult your NWT. Just giving you heads up


Now you asked

Jesus said NOBODY knows , Does this not prove holy spirit is not a person ?

If holyspirit is a person, abeg why didn't it know .? Why would Jesus said NOBODY except the father ?

As busy as I was I took my time to explain thinking perhaps he will understand, or perhaps he will see his flaws but He stupidly ignores my statements and asks a question I have already answered. Seems you want me to say something that isn't there. Well for the sake of my readers let me post my answer here again


You asked a "million in one Question" that did the Spirit Know, I pointed out to you that Yes He did because He knows the thoughts of God.... 


Let me Ellaborate this very well to your block headed level

For who knows a person’s thoughts except their own spirit within them? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.
1 Corinthians 2:11 NIV

Point A. Who knows your thoughts?
Answer: No one except Your Spirit
So apact from your Spirit no one knows your thoughts. Your Spirit Knows EVERYTHING ABOUT YOU

Point B. Who knows God's thoughts?
Answer: No one except the Spirit of God

So apact from God's Spirit no one knows His thoughts. GOD'S Spirit Knows EVERYTHING ABOUT HIM including the time.

You asked: If holyspirit is a person, abeg why didn't it know .? Why would Jesus said NOBODY except the father ?

My answer:


To further continue your stupidity after rejecting the Word of God, the verse that says the Spirit Knows the thoughts of God hence knowing the time, you continued by saying Christ said no one knows except the Father.

Now get this The Holy Spirit Hasn't been fully sent to the world yet, He was with the Father and as such one with the Father. The Spirit of God is the same as Him and that was why Paul said who knoweth the thoughts of a man except the Spirit of man within him.. Likewise The Spirit of God that was within God, who wasn't yet made Manifest to the Church was and is one with God...

The Holy Spirit was sent to us and was made Manifest to the Church , He is the allos parakletos (John 14:16) meaning
‘another of the same kind’ as Christ, in contrast to ‘heteros’ meaning ‘another of a different kind’. So Jesus after leaving sent us the Holy Spirit. So the Spirit who wasnt fully made manifest could not have been mentioned.

So the Holy Spirit took over COMPLETELY AS THE THIRD PERSON OF THE TRINITY WHEN JESUS SENT HIM. SO JESUS COULD NOT HAVE INCLUDED HIM BECAUSE HE WAS THE SAME GOD (BEING ONE WITH THE FATHER)HE WAS REFERRING TO AS KNOWING THE TIME.

zodiakzax:
and since that saying also sounds foolish in both our ears, it is only true that Jesus didn't say MY LORD but rather FATHER...

Why havnt you responded to me?

You accuse me of making foolish statements yet fail to pint out that to me. I warned you didn't I? I have you time to reconsider your question, you don't know you see how stupid you look..

zodiakzax:
Now you asked

Jesus said NOBODY knows , Does this not prove holy spirit is not a person ?


Now get this The Holy Spirit Hasn't been fully sent to the world yet, He was with the Father and as such one with the Father. The Spirit of God is the same as Himand that was why Paul said who knoweth the thoughts of a man except the Spirit of man within him.. Likewise The Spirit of God that was within God, who wasn't yet made Manifest to the Church was and is one with God...

OneJ:
Matt 11:25
"At that time Jesus said, I PRAISE YOU, FATHER, LORD OF HEAVEN AND EARTH because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned , and revealed them to little children"


Lies , twisting and distortion na virus for your blood
zodiakzax !!!!!!!

gbengalex:
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gbengalex:
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gbengalex:
If you want to interact with private messages, go to www. ("na" "NAIJA".

gbengalex:
If you want to interact with private messages, go to www. ("na" "NAIJA".

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