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Re: Does An Immortal Entity Needs Everlasting Life ? by Jozzy4: 11:06am On Jun 26, 2019 |
alBHAGDADI: Your little head thinks spirit return means a person returns, When Jesus died and his spirit RETURN, Is he in heaven that time ? 1 Like |
Re: Does An Immortal Entity Needs Everlasting Life ? by alBHAGDADI: 11:34am On Jun 26, 2019 |
Jozzy4: Mr failure, do you know how you can know when you're quoting a scripture wrongly? It's when you are trying to use it to come against a bunch of scriptures which are in harmony. I just gave you a bunch of scriptures in harmony, only for you to come with this one verse to try to rubbish them. That show you are wrong about the verse. Hebrews 11:39-40 39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: 40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect. What is the promise? The key is in the next verse which you ignored. The promise which they didn't receive is resurrection in a perfect body before we of today. So you see, your usage of the verse doesn't say what you want it to say. |
Re: Does An Immortal Entity Needs Everlasting Life ? by alBHAGDADI: 11:37am On Jun 26, 2019 |
Jozzy4:He went to hell to preach to the souls there. |
Re: Does An Immortal Entity Needs Everlasting Life ? by shadeyinka(m): 11:56am On Jun 26, 2019 |
Jozzy4:Whenever a person proves not to see, that is the results. I gave you the three different shades of meaning of gehenna and you said the most appropriate is "refuse dump". I have simply fixed your proper translation and you are complaining because you know it doesn't make any sense. I asked you a simple question: "What is the theological message in the teaching of Jesus in Mk9:42-48? What was Jesus teaching? |
Re: Does An Immortal Entity Needs Everlasting Life ? by alBHAGDADI: 11:59am On Jun 26, 2019 |
Barristter07: Since their soul and body are in hell getting burnt, which shows they are weak, then you can't say they have eternal life which is characterized by a spiritual body not prone to getting burnt. |
Re: Does An Immortal Entity Needs Everlasting Life ? by alBHAGDADI: 12:01pm On Jun 26, 2019 |
Barristter07: First of all tell me how your idea of non-existence after death harmonizes with the verse below which says Abel still speaks despite dieing right after the garden of Eden. Hebrews 11:4 King James Version (KJV) 4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh. |
Re: Does An Immortal Entity Needs Everlasting Life ? by haywizzy007(m): 1:51pm On Jun 26, 2019 |
alBHAGDADI:You just keep embarrassing yourself with your continuous show of shame...when you are not sure of something, why not maintain your silence? Just listen to yourself...Abraham, Isaac and the likes have gone to heaven before Jesus Christ came to the Earth, your fellow brothers are ashame of you. Read Jesus' own words in John 3:13 and then take a mirror and look at yourself |
Re: Does An Immortal Entity Needs Everlasting Life ? by alBHAGDADI: 2:10pm On Jun 26, 2019 |
haywizzy007: As usual, when they can't stand a bunch of verses in harmony, they try to use one verse taken out of context to negate one's post. Your failure is that you didnt read the preceding verse so as to get the context of John 3:13. Jesus wasn't saying no one has ever been to heaven. Rather, he was saying that no one has gone up there to get heavenly things and brought it back to earth. He says he's the only one who can speak of heavenly things because he's the one who came down from heaven. John 3:12-13 12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? 13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. Read verse 8-10 8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. 9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be? 10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things? In verse 8, Jesus was using earthly things to describe heavenly things, yet Nicodemus still couldn't grasp as seen in verse 9. This made Jesus point out to him in verse 9 that it is awful that Nicodemus being a master of Israel doesn't even understand earthly things. Finding it difficult to even grasp earthly things, how will he now understand heavenly things which only Jesus brought down from heaven because no man has ascended to heaven on a purpose to go bring such down to earth. Hope you get it now. |
Re: Does An Immortal Entity Needs Everlasting Life ? by shadeyinka(m): 2:12pm On Jun 26, 2019 |
Jozzy4:You don't know when you are being mocked! But, On a more serious note: what you have implied is that anywhere the word gehenna is used, it is on literal sense of course which is meaningless within the context of the verse. I have attached James 3:6 Jam 3:6: "And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defiles the whole body, and sets on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell." Is James also speaking about the literal Physical gehenna?
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Re: Does An Immortal Entity Needs Everlasting Life ? by shadeyinka(m): 2:18pm On Jun 26, 2019 |
Jozzy4:Unfortunately for you, as of the time of Jesus, NO ONE throws Living Beings there! You yourself is referring to Corpse being thrown there. Even your Literal interpretation fail. Do you think worms survive in the physical literal gehenna? Think! |
Re: Does An Immortal Entity Needs Everlasting Life ? by shadeyinka(m): 2:19pm On Jun 26, 2019 |
Jozzy4:You mean to say Sheol mean Gehenna? Think and be free! |
Re: Does An Immortal Entity Needs Everlasting Life ? by shadeyinka(m): 2:21pm On Jun 26, 2019 |
Barristter07:Do they throw living human beings in the Literal Gehenna or Corpses? Was Jesus warning Corpses or Living beings? |
Re: Does An Immortal Entity Needs Everlasting Life ? by shadeyinka(m): 2:22pm On Jun 26, 2019 |
Barristter07:Are you saying Sheol is Gehenna? |
Re: Does An Immortal Entity Needs Everlasting Life ? by shadeyinka(m): 2:25pm On Jun 26, 2019 |
Jozzy4:You obviously don't understand when you are being mocked. Can you answer how many people are in heaven (with or without their bodies). As a fact,the rich man went with all unrepentant Jehovah's Witness adherents! |
Re: Does An Immortal Entity Needs Everlasting Life ? by haywizzy007(m): 2:42pm On Jun 26, 2019 |
alBHAGDADI:@ bolded, you are really a clown...lol No one has gone to heaven to get Heavenly things and brought it back to the Earth....alBHAGDADI 2019 Heavenly things like what? |
Re: Does An Immortal Entity Needs Everlasting Life ? by haywizzy007(m): 2:48pm On Jun 26, 2019 |
alBHAGDADI:You mean Jesus was not telling Nicodemus the whole truth? was he deceiving him? Why do you take pleasure in twisting Jesus' own words? |
Re: Does An Immortal Entity Needs Everlasting Life ? by alBHAGDADI: 3:12pm On Jun 26, 2019 |
haywizzy007: Like the good news. No one ascended to heaven to get it and bring back to earth. Even when Moses when he received the ten commandments and laws didnt ascend to heaven to get it and bring it down. Only Jesus came down from heaven with the heavenly things. |
Re: Does An Immortal Entity Needs Everlasting Life ? by alBHAGDADI: 3:15pm On Jun 26, 2019 |
haywizzy007: This post makes no sense. Where did I say that Jesus didn't tell Nicodemus the whole truth? You couldn't contradict the post, that's why you just decided to play games by acting as if I stated what I didn't say. You are just amazed that one of the verses you quote out of context text to deceive people has been busted The screenshot below can't show where I implied the allegations you have leveled against me. So clearly, you are just using it to divert attention from obvious loss.
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Re: Does An Immortal Entity Needs Everlasting Life ? by DeOTR: 3:46pm On Jun 26, 2019 |
shadeyinka:Actually, the word translated to grave in Corinthians 15:55 is Hades. If you read from verse 51 you'll understand better. The Greeks might use the word Hades to mean something else (they were pagans and hell, the idea of an immortal soul is borne out of paganism) but it's used in biblical context as simply grave. In Luke 16:22-23, the Rich man was buried, and in hell (the Greek word used here was Hades) he lifted up his eyes. This is an instance where Hades is translated as hell in the Bible. |
Re: Does An Immortal Entity Needs Everlasting Life ? by haywizzy007(m): 3:52pm On Jun 26, 2019 |
alBHAGDADI:Jesus stated an obvious truth..No man has ascended to heaven Is English language the problem or comprehension Mr. albhagdadi? Did Jesus Christ ascend to heaven to bring good news? You are just roping yourself the more.. I'm enjoying this |
Re: Does An Immortal Entity Needs Everlasting Life ? by Emusan(m): 3:57pm On Jun 26, 2019 |
haywizzy007: Why do you take pleasure in not understanding the scripture by looking at the surrounding text either |
Re: Does An Immortal Entity Needs Everlasting Life ? by Emusan(m): 4:00pm On Jun 26, 2019 |
haywizzy007: You're the real Olodo.... I wonder why you people will just pick one verse or part of a verse and draw conclusion on it.... Do the previous verses agree with what you're saying? What is Jesus addressing in his statement before making such point? |
Re: Does An Immortal Entity Needs Everlasting Life ? by alBHAGDADI: 4:27pm On Jun 26, 2019 |
haywizzy007: When taken out of context, the verse may say what you have pointed out. But when put in context, it doesn't say what you are trying to make it say. I have explained the context for you using the previous and succeeding verses, but as usual you decide to still cling to how JW deceived you with that one verse which they took out of context. And to your question, Jesus didn't ascend to heaven to bring good news. He came down from heaven with it. That's why he said no man ascended to bring it down, that he's the one that brought it down from heaven. If man could go up to heaven to get it, then Jesus won't have come down with it. |
Re: Does An Immortal Entity Needs Everlasting Life ? by alBHAGDADI: 4:29pm On Jun 26, 2019 |
Emusan: He's sees the truth but doesn't want to accept it because it will mean an end to his believe in his organization. So he stylishly rejects it by throwing diversive questions. |
Re: Does An Immortal Entity Needs Everlasting Life ? by haywizzy007(m): 4:33pm On Jun 26, 2019 |
Emusan:Show us how the surrounding verses contradict the words of Jesus Christ.. |
Re: Does An Immortal Entity Needs Everlasting Life ? by haywizzy007(m): 4:43pm On Jun 26, 2019 |
alBHAGDADI:You are now making sense @bolded Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Moses and co falls under the category of "no man" Before Jesus Christ came, no man born of woman has been to heaven..They were all in the grave |
Re: Does An Immortal Entity Needs Everlasting Life ? by alBHAGDADI: 4:50pm On Jun 26, 2019 |
haywizzy007: What kind of daft fellow is this? Where did I say no man ascended to heaven? I only said no man ascended to heaven to bring good news down to earth. This means all those who ascended didn't go for the purpose of bring good news down to earth, that's why they remain in heaven. According to your understanding of the verse, Jesus was the only one who ascended to heaven during his time, which must have been before his death, burial and resurrection. Now, tell us when did he ascended to heaven before he died Failure to answer the question will show you why you got the verse wrong. Oya answer. 1 Like |
Re: Does An Immortal Entity Needs Everlasting Life ? by haywizzy007(m): 5:26pm On Jun 26, 2019 |
alBHAGDADI:According to my understanding..lol You are sha trying hard to put what i did not say into my mouth, Jesus only ascended to heaven after his death.. Jesus said "No man has ascended to heaven" alBHAGDADI said "No man has ascended to heaven to bring good news down to the earth We all know who the crook is |
Re: Does An Immortal Entity Needs Everlasting Life ? by Emusan(m): 5:29pm On Jun 26, 2019 |
haywizzy007: Answer the questions I asked first Is that how you were taught in school? |
Re: Does An Immortal Entity Needs Everlasting Life ? by Emusan(m): 5:37pm On Jun 26, 2019 |
alBHAGDADI: Couple with lack of comprehension Imagine hammering on that particular phrase That's how you'll know that they lack scriptural understanding 1 Like |
Re: Does An Immortal Entity Needs Everlasting Life ? by alBHAGDADI: 5:52pm On Jun 26, 2019 |
haywizzy007: You didn't have to say it, but imply it. You are now trying to deny the implication of what you have been hammering on. Jesus said "No man has ascended to heaven" That's Jesus word in one verse. But my word explains the context of the passage which contains more than one verse. It's even in harmony with commentaries below. https://biblehub.com/commentaries/john/3-13.htm I believe you understood me clearly. But in order for you to dodge the question which would have exposed you, you decided to give this silly reply. Hope you are not one of those fooled by GB that higher education is evil. Because I'm surprised that you lack comprehension skills.
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Re: Does An Immortal Entity Needs Everlasting Life ? by shadeyinka(m): 7:13pm On Jun 26, 2019 |
DeOTR:Thank you for your nice reply. 1. I tried to look up 1Cor 15:55 and I see that the word used as death and Grave. Incidentally, the same word θάνατε transliterated [i ]thanate [/i] was used and and not Hades. 1Cor 15:55: "O death, where is your sting? O grave, where is your victory?" The interlinear translation is attached for you to see. I don't know why[i] thanate[/i] was translated as Grave. 2. Yes, the grave might use pagan ideas but don't forget that Jesus spoke mainly Aramaic and not Hebrew nor Greek during his time (even though Aramaic and Hebrew are slightly related). BUT, the writers of the new testament were Jews who use Greek as a medium of written communication. They wouldn't put pagan ideas as words of Christ. You will notice that a few Aramaic even were used within the Greek Scripture eg. Raca (fool) is originally Aramaic but is used in the Greek text as such. The authors knew what they were doing. No one has the right to assume the the power to rewrite the Greek text to suit any other thing than what the Greek text say. 3. The idea of an immortal soul wasn't a pagan idea. There is no where in the old testament where the idea of judgement of sin after death is preached. But Jesus emphasized it seriously throughout his ministry. Most of what we know about hell as a place of judgement was actually from Jesus. Remember that the Sadducees took it to an extreme is saying that there is no resurrection of the dead. There are several Scriptures to show that death isn't an unconscious state. e.g. Rev 6:9-11: "And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain [/b]for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: [b]And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, do you not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? And white robes were given to every one of them; and it was said to them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellow servants also and their brothers, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled." 4. In Luke 16:23-24 Hades was used as you have rightly said. And a translation fraudulently translated the Hades to Grave even though the word GRAVE occurs in the Greek as τάφος. This further reinforces the idea that if the writers meant to use the word grave, it existed in the Greek and they would have used it rather than Gehenna or Hades or Tartarus. There are at least 7 instances that I can recall where Hades was used in the Greek NT and translated as Hell. There is no way Hades could have been translated to mean grave and the context wouldn't be affected negatively.
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