₦airaland Forum

Timmi:
Bindex,

You missed the point. I did not call you a fool, I only said that a fool said in his heart that there is no God. I guess you see yourself in the mirror.

I think you are confusing the issue of God's existence and the representation given to Him by humans. The fact that the Bible is written in a particular langauge does not mean that it is not relevant to everybody. In Nigeria, you have proverbs (words of wisdom) that are peculiar to particular tribes and yet it is relevant irrespective of tribe or nationality.

As a scientist with many years in research, many things have convinced me that there must be God and have convinced other scientist that indeed there is God. Making a statement, or repeating what you have heard others say about existence or non-existence of God is what you and others like you are doing instead of finding out for yourself through readind, observation and thoughts.
Don't be one of those lazy journalist that we have in Nigeria doing copy and paste journalism. Think and think out loud.

I would like to know too. How has your scientific training equiped you with the knowledge of the existence of God? Can you provide the evidence, scientific or otherwise?

If you had been at Jesus trial, would you have called for his execution like the Jewish crowd? Would you have demanded the freedom of Barabbas instead of Jesus's?

The Christian believe he is the very same god who take pride is punishing children for the sins of their parents and grandparents and great grandparents, as in Exodus 34;

And he passed in front of Moses, proclaiming, "The LORD, the LORD, the compassionate and gracious God, slow to anger, abounding in love and faithfulness, 7 maintaining love to thousands, and forgiving wickedness, rebellion and sin. Yet he does not leave the guilty unpunished; he punishes the children and their children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation."

http://www.everystudent.com/wires/whodoyousay.html
http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-t005.html
http://www.christiananswers.net/kids/ednk-jesusgodorman.html

Analytical:
If by 'clear instruction' you mean 'Thou shall not practise polygamy' then you won't, just the same way you won't find such on so many other doctrines directly, eg. trinity, rapture etc, using the same exact words.  But the principles and doctrines are so clear adding scriptures upon scriptures.  Moreover, we are discussing Christians and I am yet to see a single one example of an approved polygamist in the NT.


That is your own definition, definitely.  The bible did not give you that definition.  God said 'YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY'.  I asked you a question earlier on,  who was God addressing in that 7th commandment?  A man, woman or both?  Do you require a certain hebrew dictionary to understand that?

Then you have not been studying the complete Biblical teaching on the subject.  I will rather believe what my Lord revealed in His Word about it.  To avoid sexual immorality, let each man marry his own wife!  Not wives.  Husband of one wife!  Wife of one husband!  Whatever God has joined together, let no man (or woman) put asunder.  Polygamy is not for Christians.  It is contrary to the NT.

There is no injunction against committing adultery in the TEN COMMANDMENTS. The words "TEN COMMANDMENTS" is used with reference to Exodus 34 and never in connection with Exodus 20. Further the commandments in Exodus 20 were replaced by those in Exodus 34, with does not bar adultery. Hope, you learnt something

Why would you believe what the christian magazine (or indeed wikipedia) say? Also, supposing the medical treatment of an ailment has its roots in non-christian traditions, would you also refrain from using such treatment if it was prescribed to you by you doctor?

Is this the same god that was gonna kill his best mate Moses?

chukwudi44:
Please without tithes the church cann still survive.People should be encouraged to give freely on their own volition and not as a requirement of the obsolete mosaic law. DID THE APOSTLES RECEIVE TITHE?

Yes, I think it can be argued that the apostles received tithes or other forms of contributions from the flock, perhaps on pain of death. Check out the narrative in Act 4: 32 - Act 5: 11 where a husband and wife are struck dead by the holy spirit for not make declaring in full their revenue from a sale, as such as intended to be given to the church. I raised a thread about this here.

bindex:
Nice, will look it up

Good. Also check out this one

bindex:
I thought he was a jew following the jewish tradition?

I know, but there are a number of reasons why I brought this up. Firstly, it is not clear fron the narrative whether indeed the circucision was carried out. The text says - on the day he was due to be sniped he was named Jesus.

Secondly, from the old testament teaching circumcision was meant as a covenant between man and god. If Jesus is god, as the christians claim, then by being circumcised, he appeared to be making a self-referential covenant. This makes absolutely no sense.

Thirdly, if circumcision was so important that Jesus had to lose his foreskin (and blood) to uphold the tradition, why then would Paul treat it with such levity?

Talk Reason is a great site.  And this one too. Check them  out.

God considers circumcision such an important act that he attempts to kill Moses for delaying the circumcision of his son, as per Exodus 4: 24 - 26.

24 At a lodging place on the way, the LORD met {Moses} and was about to kill him. 25 But Zipporah took a flint knife, cut off her son's foreskin and touched {Moses'} feet with it. "Surely you are a bridegroom of blood to me," she said. 26 So the LORD let him alone. (At that time she said "bridegroom of blood," referring to circumcision.)


Is it really conceivable that God would want to kill one of his major prophets over the matter of circumcision? How did Moses's wife know that Gods anger was related to their not having circumcised their son? Did she read the mind of God?

Luke 2: 21 narrates the event of the circumcision of Jesus, that is the removal of the penil foreskin of the God of the Christians;

21 On the eighth day, when it was time to circumcise him, he was named Jesus, the name the angel had given him before he had been conceived.

Does this mean that Jesus was indeed circumcised or was he only named and not circumcised? If he was circumcised, why did he have to be circumcised? What sort of precedent was he setting for his followers by allowing himself to be circumcised?

kola oloye:
@mazaje,
I've not come to preach to you about God but i just want you to know that there is a God in heaven.
Am a living witness. He created you to worship him. How people serve / worship Him is not my problem
the major thing is your relationship with your creator.Before you were formed in your mothers womb He knew you.
One day you shall give account of your deeds here on earth.Now that you have the opportunity THINK about it.

Is this really true? How do you know this is true? Does god know people before they are born? Consider this - Between 30% - 70 % of all pregnancies are aborted naturally by the body even before the woman is aware that she is pregnant, a phenonemon called chemical pregnancies.

Compounding this worldwide, this amounts to many millions (if not billions) of people that God knew in their mother's womb, but yet allows them to be washed out naturally and killed. What a loving god!

SirJohn:
@hopegirl,
All the religious movement/sect we have today started little by little. One false belief gradually adding unto another until it became a full blown movement. Rev King didnt start by burning people, he probably even had a good christian background until he 'caught' a revelation which no one else knows. I saw a video of Billy Graham the other day denying that Jesus is the only way, he now believes you can access God through any religion. Some of the movements/sects we have today would not have emerged if certain christians stepped into their responsibility to rebuke and reprove when they ought to.

Very well said! One falsehood on another on another. And so on, until presto, you get a religion. Perfect description of Christianity, I would say.

The 10 commandments are given in three parts of the bible, Exodus 20, Exodus 34 and Deut 5. Those given in Deut are near-identical to those of Exodus 20. Those in Exodus 34 are meant to be the replacement of the Exodus 20 (or Deut 5) commandments which Moses smashed upon his descent from Mount Sinai.

So my question is this - if Exodus 34 are meant were meant as replacement for Exodus 20, why is it Exodus 34 is hardly or never ever mentioned?

Secondly, Moses placed the 10 commandments in the Ark of the Covenant, which was one of the most sacred objects of the Jews. Which version of the commandments do you think Moses placed in the Ark? Should the version that was placed in the Ark taken precedence over all other versions given that it was given such pride of place?

In fact, I quite like this:

3)  Instead of paying tithes, why don't you give 10% of what you would have given to tithes to some poor child in Nigeria. And keep the other 90% to meet you family needs.

I think this is so good a proposition, I think you should do this and tell your pastor that this your preferred method of serving or giving back to God.  You should also encourage some of your fellow church members to do likewise.  It would save you a great deal of money and at the same time alleviate the dire poverty of some more needy children.

Why do you think any advice from here would make a difference?  Supposing I were to say any of the following;

1)  Pay your tithes before your mortgage.

2)  Your Pastor is inspired by God, so disregarding your Pastor is tantamount to disobeying God.

3)  Instead of paying tithes, why don't you give 10% of what you would have given to tithes to some poor child in Nigeria. And keep the other 90% to meet you family needs.


How would you reason out the best of the above three options?

naomijt:
huxley,

I know u aren't asking because u want to learn

U are just in for another arguement

I am interested in learning why it is that the bible gives out such mixed messages. I want to know the messages or lessons from the bible about any issues are so discrepant.  Take these examples;

1)  It is easier for a camel to go thru the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of god

2)  In the story of Lazarus and the rich man, the rich man goes to hell because he is rich

3)  God blesses other partriachs like Abraham, David, Solomon, Job and makes them rich

4)  Jesus says "Whatever you ask for in my name, I shall give you". Supposing you were asking for wealth, would that be unbiblical?

I would be much obliged if you would enlighten me on these issues

KunleOshob:
James 1:27:
27 Pure and genuine religion/worship in the sight of God the Father means caring for orphans and widows in their distress and refusing to let the world corrupt you.

This is an interesting point and I wonder to what extend ordinary Christian routinely and directly take care of orphans and widows in distress. How many Christians visit orphanages, hospitals, prisons, etc? Most christian ministries claim that the large majority of the donation they receive is put to use in helping the dispossesse and unfortunate amongst us. To the extend that this is true, and they don't directly help the poor then they are only indirectly partaking in the essense of the christian message if they make donation to these ministries.

KunleOshob:
The truth is that these men just manipulate the word of God to satify their lust for filthy lucre. True christianity does not even preach about material wealth or prosperity. If you want wealth you have to work for it. Here is what the bible as to say about true religous worship:

James 1:27:
27 Pure and genuine religion/worship in the sight of God the Father means caring for orphans and widows in their distress and refusing to let the world corrupt you.

I don't dispute that these preachers are exploiting these poor gullible and simple christians.  My point is - is there anything intrinsically wrong, unbiblical with prosperity and wealth?   Once this has been decided, then we can discuss the valid means by which wealth could be achieved.

However, if wealth and prosperity is frown upon by the christian doctrine it makes it doubly egregious that these preachers continue to preach this message.

naomijt:
@ Huxley,

Do your research from scriptures and come back if you still have questions

Can you point out where I am wrong?  I would be much obliged.  Thanks

SirJohn:
I'm so surprised some folks mentioned here that they've not seen or heard of such before. Although I may have to excuse them since I'm aware such practice is common in the penticostal/charismatic circle.
This practice can be readily observed in most Naija 'penticostal' churches especially those who are fast subscribing to the widespreading 'Word of Faith Movement'. For those who know the word of faith and its origin (the US) it shouldnt be a surprise at all. Word of faith practitioners believe so much in 'Revealed Knowledge' especially when they have to back up a clearly unscriptural practice/belief.
So lets just say its one of those 'RHEMA' they have recieved from gawd.

Take a look at these videos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtU6bvOqwgA&feature=related

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxSJiAwXgXY&feature=related

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fknk2MO0MyU&feature=related

Just like every subjects, bible believers are as split as non-believers. The issue of wealth and money is no different. On the one side, there are those who belong to the camel-passing-through-the-eye-of-the-needle (or the rich man in hell) camp who believe that material wealth is antithetical to god's plans. And there are many biblical justifications for this positions.

And there are those who see wealth as a blessing from god, siting wealthy partriachs like Abraham, Job, David, Solomon, etc, etc.

What I don't get is - on what grounds do people criticise these "prosperity preachers"?. Isn't wealth and/or financial sufficiency something we all desire, as much as health, status, etc? Is the problem the fact that these preachers are asking for monetary donations to their ministries? Is is a matter of the scale of these demands and donations or is it a matter of the principle of the demands?

Doesn't god require his followers to make offerings/tithes/donations, etc to his ministries? How else is the work of god going to be done without such contributions? Why did god not provide a method of spread his word that does not ultimately require financial support from the flock?

This book covers this subject in some details.  Here are some reviews from Amazon;

Keenly observed and meticulously reported, God's Profits examines the unholy alliance between a new breed of corrupt televangelists and the Republican Party, which is eagerly courting "values voters" in the nation's largest megachurches.
Author Sarah Posner exposes the activities of Kenneth Copeland, John Hagee, Rod Parsley, T.D. Jakes, and other politically connected, skillfully marketed, and increasingly influential religious leaders. Preaching the "prosperity gospel"--the notion that faith and tithing alone can ensure financial security--both in their churches and over the airwaves, these charismatic leaders scam the gullible even as they enjoy unprecedented access to top Bush Administration officials.

Admired by Republican strategists for their antigovernment ideology and authoritarian leadership styles, these televangelists work together to maximize profits; protect themselves legally; influence elections, judicial nominations, and promote their pro-war, apocalyptic ideas.

From the Back Cover
* GOD'S PROFITS is is a fascinating and important investigation into the sordid nexus between religious zealotry and run-amok capitalism. Sarah Posner has given us a vivid account of a new generation of spiritual hucksters whose venality is nearly matched by their political influence. The story she tells is appalling, but the way she tells it is enormously compelling. --- Michelle Goldberg ---

* Sarah Posner has produced the definitive expose of America's leading "prosperity gospel" preachers. With direct access to the Bush White House and Republican lawmakers, these televangelists have injected their Armageddon-based agenda into US. foreign policy. Posner's book should serve as a stark warning to anyone tempted to dismiss the John Hagees and Rod Parsleys of the world as benign loons. --- Max Blumenthal ---

* Sarah Posner's reporting on the religious right is dogged, informed, and ceaselessly illuminating. She never condescends to rank-and-file believers; at the same time, she never excuses their leaders' hypocrisies or fundamental misunderstanding of, and threat to, our constitutional republic. --- Michael Tomasky ---

* Sarah Posner introduces us to the stars of a new evangelical movement who have declared welfare Satanic, poverty a religious curse, and redistribution of wealth "contrary to the word of God." GOD'S PROFITS serves as an urgent warning about their toxic and corrupting effect on American politics. --- Esther Kaplan ---

* GOD'S PROFITS is an astounding tale of religious hucksterism--and its role in politics--as big and crass as the ostentatious empires of the Word of Faith movement itself. It features a cast of charlatans, demagogues, con men, and the pols and presidents who pander to them. It is also a window on the rise of the Bush family dynasty and details how John Hagee, Rod Parsley, and their ilk treat faith as a cheap political commodity on its behalf. --- Frederick Clarkson ---

But watch these videos first:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZFhbf31akw
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=acGVpUujTj0&feature=related
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Ku3rQOo1Wms&feature=related
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=TgZTP7PNZaU&feature=related
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=TjWS-e0W9ls&feature=related
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=IG_QJ4QLGCs&feature=related
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ifUT-M6Kgvk&feature=related
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=jB-Eub2_Fak&feature=related
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=dXXSToU5jM4&feature=related
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Tb1AoYhlFTI&feature=related
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=RTD7zjaXtmY&feature=related
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=RTD7zjaXtmY&feature=related
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=FhMFS5dsuo4&feature=related
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=hwwJuY6k44E&feature=related
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=hxq9Tax5qH0&feature=related

Chrisbenogor:
I thought they kidnapped you huxley.

Just been keeping a low profile for a while. I have been dipping in and out but not really wanted to post until now.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/religion/watch/

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=jyQwC00VaI0&feature=channel_page
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=7CcfV8c0CNc&feature=related
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=lGgv9yN0b9k&feature=related
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Qp2wOkdLvY0&feature=related
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Ebq39631wxQ&feature=related
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=dW5AD6T6BiM&feature=related
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=m5HUxE1sG9U&feature=related
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=FYBOkN7qIZQ&feature=related
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=T6cZX9mKgWw&feature=related

I have my own theory about who the antichrist is - It is Billy Graham.

javalove:
@huxley

Define the term "child" and tell me when someone seizes to be a child.

If you had a daughter who is 15yrs old, would you be happy if boys were sleeping with her at every available opportunity or you prefer she be married?

If you had a daughter who is 15yrs, there would be nothing wrong if men round her over and over but don't you think she be married to save your shame?

If you had a daughter age 15, do u prefer her being deflowered by unknowns or her husband?

If you had a daughter age 15, would you be happy if she had her child(ren) in ur house or the house of her husband.

For every Islamic law you read about or hear of, you need to think deeply about it. Islam is not a religion that must conform to standards set by men or is all out to make sense to men.

When something is condemned in Islam, the laws would not tell you not to do it, or not to do it too much. Guess what? [B]WE ARE TOLD NOT TO MOVE NEAR EVIL!!!!!![/b]

oya, let personal attacks begin

Shame on you and shame on the islamic community if this is the sort of thing they condone and practice.

I would not prefer my daughter to be engaging in any of the above you cited. In fact, at that age I would rather she be in school, learning about the world and maturing into an independent individual so that SHE CAN MAKE DECISIONS for herself about who she would like to marry.

Are you suggesting that these parents marry off their children at such young ages because there is nothing else but marriage and children for them in their communities? What happen to schooling and learning about the world?

You go to your favourite family church with your family and lo and behold, your pastor declares that one or more of your children is a witch. This is a man of god that you have high esteeem for and is particularly close to his congregation and your family.

As a bible-believing Christian, what do you do?


1) Hand over your child or children to the congregation to be summarily stoned (or your congregations preferred method of killing) to death. After all does not God say in Exodus 22: 18 - 18 "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live."

2) Hand over your child or children to the care of the pastor, who will subsequently perform exorcism on said child/ren in an effort to drive out the demons. You may also want to hand over some swines to the pastor so the the demons could be driven into the swines.

3) Withdraw your family forthright from this church as you now suspect this pastor may be a fraud. Other than your hunch, you have no other valid reason for your suspicion besides the fact that he claims your child(ren) to be a witch(es).

4) Withdraw your family from this church and report the pastor to the authorities.


5) None of the above, but carry on attending this church with your family in spite of the accusatory fingers and stares directed at your family.

You go to your favourite family church with your family and lo and behold, your pastor declares that one or more of your children is a witch. This is a man of god that you have high esteeem for and is particularly close to his congregation and your family.

As a bible-believing Christian, what do you do?


1) Hand over your child or children to the congregation to be summarily stoned (or your congregations preferred method of killing) to death. After all does not God say in Exodus 22: 18 - 18 "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live."

2) Hand over your child or children to the care of the pastor, who will subsequently perform exorcism on said child/ren in an effort to drive out the demons. You may also want to hand over some swines to the pastor so the the demons could be driven into the swines.

3) Withdraw your family forthright from this church as you now suspect this pastor may be a fraud. Other than your hunch, you have no other valid reason for your suspicion besides the fact that he claims your child(ren) to be a witch(es).

4) Withdraw your family from this church and report the pastor to the authorities.


5) None of the above, but carry on attending this church with your family in spite of the accusatory fingers and stares directed at your family.