₦airaland Forum

Though I didn't read through all the posts, I couldn't help but notice the pessimists shouting that we can not do it. Well, some Nigerians are already working hard instead of whining and waiting for government to do things for them. A company called fusion media is producing a Nigerian 3D animated series called the O-twins. I think it will be out in the beginning of this year. You can check out their website at

http://www.fusionng.com/

To the pessimists, I say, if you can't do something just help us by keeping quiet instead of making noise that will discourage the otherwise serious ones among us.

Sorry guys, I was unable to post for some time cos I kept getting banned from posting for some unknown reasons.
I am happy to see that people are interested in going to the conference. For those of us that can not make it, I'll try as much as I can to update you on this thread.

A little googling shows that the conference is getting some interest from many open source communities. Look at the following links

http://maemo.org/community/maemo-community/maemo_community_invited_to_foss_nigeria_2010/
http://www.mail-archive.com/marketing-list@gnome.org/msg06113.html

@bigboyslim, I never checked Amazon before reading the book. I was talking based on my experience with the book, and I tell you that the book is good. But don't take my word for it. If you can get anything better go for it.

If you guys can invest a few bucks for books, I'll recommend "Data Structures Algorithms And Applications Using Java" by Sartaj Sahni. It's the book I used and am still using. Though the book uses Java, you can easily transfer the ideas to whatever language you are using.

The 1st one tagged FOSS Nigeria 2009 took place last year. I attended the conference and was really impressed impressed.
I just discovered that the second one is taking place from 7th-9th March 2010. Sadly I came across the discussion on a foreign website.
So I called one of the organizers and he told me that they are expecting quite a number of respected people from the open source software world. There were in talks with Richard Stallman of the Free Software Foundation and many others.

If you are interested in OSS, FOSS Nigeria 2010 is a conference you will love to attend. I whish I can meet some Nairalanders in person there.
Check out the announcement on the K.D.E website at http://www.kdenews.org/2009/12/27/kde-community-invited-foss-nigeria-2010
And my blogpost about last year's event at http://a-ig..com/2009/04/foss-nigeria-2009.html

@candylips, @netghost.
Why do you guys think that we need to be discussing data structures, compiler constructions e.t.c ?
I don't know if I am missing something but I think every modern programming language has support for most data structure you can think of imlpementing.
About compiler construction, well, do we need to write a new programming language?
I think it will be more usefull to discuss things that are a little less esoteric which the average programmer can benefit from.

But enlighten me please, if I am wrong.

Ghenghis:
@IG you're mixing things up
C# is an ECMA standard but its just a language that can actually be implemented on a platform (maybe even Java).

So we have the language (C#, VB.NET etc.) and platform (.NET)
with Java, you have the Java language and the platforms (JEE, JSE, JME) which people also refer to as Java.

Don't mix up the Java platform with the Java language.

I am not mixing things up. The C# language is defined by ECMA-334 while the CLI which is the runtime is defined by ECMA-335. So the standard is not limited to the C# language. The advantage here is that ECMA is an independent standards body. This shows the difference between Java standard defined by SUN and .NET standard defined by the ECMA (Not Microsoft).
Please note that the ECMA is the same body maintaining the Javascript language.

canachy:
U need to really know your onion when it comes to Printing Circuit boards (PCB) because one little error will lead to loss of your hard earned money. I therefore advice that u learn how to use any good PCB software (I recommend Ultiboard or Eagle) though there are thousands of them out there.

I have an EDA software installed. It's called gEDA and runs on linux. It's a complete suite that includes a PCB design software which allows you to export gerber files to use in printing PCBs.

I also recently came across a Nigerian company called microscale-embedded thru d google ads on NL. They sell hardware used for embedded development. I think it's important to share the info here. They are at http://www.microscale-embedded.com/

craziest:
Thanks man. As long as microsoft continue to sit on C# it will be a disaster like IE, i can guaranty that. Java for life.

I told you, you are getting everything twisted. Microsoft is not sitting on C#. I made it clear in an earlier post, maybe you didn't care to read it. C# is a published standard with the ECMA. The language specification is called ECMA 334 and is an international standard that has now been implemented by others apart from Microsoft. @craziest, it's like you are not engaging in a debate here but an argument.

Saying things like Java for life makes it difficult for one to be taken seriously. I personally do not stick to a technology unconditionally. If a better one comes out I move on. And that's how I moved from Java to .NET. That's how pragamatic software developers think, and that's why nobody codes in COBOL anymore.

craziest:
For statistics you can check this one out

http://www.langpop.com/

Interesting statistics. So are you now implying that the more popular the language the better features it has?

Look at what they said on the site

We have attempted to collect a variety of data about the relative popularity of programming languages, mostly out of curiousity. To some degree popularity does matter - however it is clearly not the only thing to take into account when choosing a programming language.

Going further

these results are not scientific. They are interesting nonetheless, and are an attempt to glean as much data as possible notwithstanding the fact that gathering precise data is impossible. We hope you find them interesting as well.

craziest:
Well everything about Microsoft sulks. Just look at Internet Explorer for instance;even MS OS sulks, I just moved over to Apple MAC. C# copied java period. Java solves all problems simple. What i hate most in life is VB.

The problem is that you got everything twisted. Unlike the way Sun held Java hostage and stunted for long, Microsoft has freed .NET and published the standard with ECMA. The technology's name is Common Language Infrastructure. .NET is only the Microsoft implementation of the CLI. If you don't like Microsoft then go for Mono which is an open source implementation of the CLI. Even the super haters of Microsoft, the GNU folks have their own implementation called dotGNU.

You see Mr craziest, this whole debate is not about love or hate for technologies but about more superior and less superior technologies. I love Java but I know it doesn't seem to have a future. Yeah C# copied Java but corrected everything that sucks in Java. Guess what?, Java also copied a lot of C and C++ and sometimes made things worse instead of improving them.

look at what Steve Yegge said after praising Java over C++

On the other hand, in addition to being a language, a virtual machine, a huge set of class libraries, a security model, and a portable bytecode format, Java is a religion. So you can't trust anyone who loves it too much. It's a tricky business to hire good Java programmers.

Spot on

logica:
. . . and what exact advantage does that provide?

1-subtle errors in the use of JNI can destabilize the entire JVM in ways that are very difficult to reproduce and debug.
2-You do not have to code any C or C++.
4-There is no chance of making mistake in the C/C++ connector code cos it doesn't exist.

logica:
When I refer to legacy code, I refer to custom code written for enterprise/business purposes, which have been tried and tested for decades, and are considered reliable. And most can be easily ported to Java these days, considering the stability and safety offered by the language. Which Windows DLLs could I possibly be calling for what ever purpose?

You cannot replace those C/C++ codes. At the lower level everything is in the native format of the OS and at some point you will have to call those codes. Without calling native code everything you do in Java or .NET will be limited to the VM you are running.

logica:
Pretty obvious; as you mentioned the slow start-up. It's for more responsive client apps (meaning quicker launching of apps). Users are generally not very patient with slow loading apps. Maybe in the future, they may converge.

The benchmark doesn't use the client mode VM which I believe is slower than .NET. I am looking forward to the day they converge.

I am not saying that Java is bad, it's just not as good as .NET in most instances. There are many .NET developers that love Java. Some even went ahead and developed a Java Virtual Machine and some part of the class library with .NET. Did you get that JVM developed with .NET, it's called IKVM. Check it out at http://www.ikvm.net/

logica:
OK, you write a C/C++ "connector" code that's probably no more than 3 lines. How does that make it such a bad thing? Besides, the only practical use of JNI is to provide access to "legacy code" which most enterprises will best invest in replacing anyway.

In .NET that connector code is written in whatever .NET language you are using right within your other code. No need for non .NET files. The ease of calling native code in .NET is what facilitates the writing of many gui toolkit bindings like GTK#, Qt#, wx.NET e.t.c.
My friend, legacy codes are not going to be replaced anytime in the forseeable future. Almost all windows dlls and linux/unix shared libraries are written in C or C++ and nobody is going to replace them with Java or .NET libraries.

According to Sun Microsystems, the server mode JVM is not suited for gui apps. That means the speed advantage (despite the slow startup) is only available for server based applications. This means that the benchmark posted by ishikawa doesn't apply in most cases.
Besides that to get the server mode performance you have to compile with a compiler for the server JVM.
Honestly I am really trying hard to find very good reasons to stick to Java but Sun is not helping matters. Why complicate things with two runtimes and two compilers. Why cant we have a single compiler and runtime that has a server mode option.

logica:
Huh? Can you explain more about this?

@logica, when calling native code with java you have create some .c or .cpp files. You have to code C or C++ to call native code already written probably in C or C++.
In .NET you use PInvoke to call the native code diectly in your .NET program.

Ishikawa:
1-3. and any other:
           Speed: The last time I checked JVM is mostly faster than Mono. Once the JVM is running, .NET applications run at virtually the same        speed as JVM applications. http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/u32/benchmark.php?test=all&lang=csharp

First of all, the JVM takes time to load. You said it yourself, it's only faster once the JVM is running. Secondly to get that speed in Java you have to enable something called server-mode and even sun said it starts slower. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Ishikawa:
4.  What’s the .net alternative for Groovy (a superset of java like C++ is a superset of C). Any superset of the .net languages you can hint me of.

Groovy is an agile dynamic language for the java virtual machine. Boo is an agile dynamic language for .NET. I've not used groovy but the advantages it offers are also available in Boo.

Ishikawa:
5. SWT is as light and as fast as WinForms. It’s usage statistics is another question.

So you agreed that WinForms is light and fast and the same time the default .NET gui toolkit. SWT has to be built as a result of the failure of the default Java gui toolkit, swing. And I do not quite agree that it's as fast as winforms.
Apart from SWT and swing what other gui toolkit can I get for Java?

Ishikawa:
6. Please recheck your statistics.

Alright I agree, java community is big. But it's a community that make little improvement to the core java technology unlike cases of .NET like mono in which the technology is being implemented by the community.

Ishikawa:
7. Error! Or do you you mean Nigerian Primary and Secondary Schools.

The choice of languages being taught in schools are made by academicians for academic purposes. They do not have to be the best languages to use in the real world.

Ishikawa:
You really need to understand my “P.S” in the first post then you’ll understand that it doesn’t matter whether I have 7 or 10 reasons.

That's the problem with coding only in Java, even your daily English language ends up becoming cryptic like the Java language

Ishikawa:
Conclusion: Learn “dynamic languages.”

I know some dynamic languages like PHP and Python but I also know Java, C# and VB.NET so I believe I am in a good position to know the advantages and disadvantages of the different languages.
Conclusion: Try other languages.

cygital:
There is no best programming language. However, there are best developers. Thanks!

Yeah right, but there are technologies and languages that bring the best out of developers and Java is not one of them.

@Ishikawa, I believe this post is a reply to my post "10 Reasons Why .NET is BETTER than Java".
First of all, I gave 10 reasons and you gave only 7 which means you are still down by 3. But let us deal with the 7 you have and see weather they can still stand.

Ishikawa:
1. In the JVM, you have the choice of using Groovy, JRuby, Scala, Jython with the accompanying advantages of using these powerful multi-paradigm languages.
E.g Groovy includes closures, operator overloading. Groovy has the Grails RAD web framework; For good reasons Twitter uses Scala extensively.

All these came as an after-thought and as a result of the .NET challenge. You see the JVM was originally designed for one languae "JAVA" and all the support for the other languages came from 3rd parties. You cited Jython here, but the creator of Jython created it's .NET version called IronPython and found it to be much faster than Jython.

Ishikawa:
2. Compiled Java bytecode runs at native speed just like the CLI.

Short answer: they don't.
Long answer: do a test for .NET and Java compiled at Native speed and compare the results and give yourself an honest answer. You don't have to post the results here.

Ishikawa:
3. Calling native code in Java-languages is not much different to calling native code in dotNet

Very much different. Java's method is very dirty. You have generate some files that only sun microsystems understands  . In .NET you only need to know the signature of the functions you are calling. No need to generate any file or use any tool apart from your compiler.

Ishikawa:
4. All dotNET languages are definitely not richer than all Java languages.

Almost all Java languages have .NET equivalents. The difference is that the .NET versions are faster.

Ishikawa:
5. Using SWT (with Eclipse et al), you can easily build "native" Windows GUI applications.

SWT is as heavy and slow as swing. That's why it didn't get much following.

Ishikawa:
6. The amount of applications, frameworks written in Java and the size of the Java community is unbelievably large and not to be overlooked. However Java had a lot of fallout in the Linux community because it wasn't open source for a amazingly (IMHO) long time.

You will believe it's very large when you never walked out of that community to see the larger world. Unlike java .NET is used to develop some very important components of the linux desktop for some time now.

Ishikawa:
7. In most schools Java is taught as an introductory programming language. But why?

In most schools QBasic is taught as an introductory programming language. Why?

Ishikawa:
P.S: 'A Is NOT better than B' is not equivalent to 'B Is better than A' just as 'Is NOT white' is not equivalent to 'Is black'

Is that also an argument in support of Java?

I have a lot of interest in embedded systems ( I studied Electrical/Electronic) but didn't really give much input to beside casual studies. My problem is that I do not want to stop at the bread-board level but go all the way to make commercially viable devices. So I hit the rock when I was unable to get any company that can print my design on a PCB. I will readily go back once I find the right push to trigger my interest again. Hope this thread will be it.

PremierRow:
I am good at writing computer programs but someone told me to go for electrical electronics
is that a good idea

Electrical engineers make the best computer programmers. When you understand electronics and know software development, the computer becomes to you like a clay to a moulder.

So after bombing all the country's military bases, are you going to build new ones from scratch after taking over? These are assets that will become yours if you succeed.

vigasimple:
The power base of Islamic North is with the Saudana of Sokoto ( the sokoto caliphate) and the Political base of the North is what is called the 'Kaduna Mafia' but it is actually Kastina because historically the Emir of Kastina is the Haed of Emirs in the North, and meetings are usually held in his domain.

The Hausa's are just the punching bags for the North whereas they don't have political power. Majority of the past Nigeria leaders from the north are either Fulani's or brought up by them.

The kaduna mafia things came up from the Military angle because that is where the Military head is based and do and undo to the rest of Nigeria.

Bros, where did you get that analysis of the North from? The Emir of Katsina being the historical head of Northern emirs, this is the first time I am hearing of that. Befor the Fulani conquest most of the Hausa areas that form the North-West were independent city states like Kano, Daura, Zazzau e.t.c. While the North-East was dominated by the Kanem-Borno empire and the remaining parts including some Hausa states were for some time ruled by the Jukuns. Later the Fulanis consolidated the North-West and formed the caliphate headquartered at Sokoto but were stopped just at the borders of Borno which they were unable to penetrate. That is why up till today the Sultan rule doesn't extend into states like Borno and Yobe which were part of the ancient Kanem-Borno empire which extends into places like Chad, Sudan and Libya.

Just a little primer on the setup of emirates in Northern Nigeria

I came across this on a Muslim website and thought it is important to share it. I have seen the Boko Haram incidence and knows how dangerous these groups are. I believe the danger they pose to Muslims far more outweighs the dangers they pose to non-Muslims. I also know that some people will always find a way to create an argument over any topic posted on Nairaland so I want to stress that my aim is to share the following article and not argue over the views expressed in it.
I am also not quite sure weather this should go into the religion or politics section.

The wite-up is titled "Standing United against Terrorism" and the author is Sheikh Salman al-Oadah. I found at mobileislam1.com

This article contains some harsh words for those who choose to follow the path of violence. However, I find it necessary to use a harsh tone – which departs from my normal writing style – in order to confront those people who take up arms with the purpose of bringing death to numerous people and reducing societies to ruin.

I have persistently called upon our sincere scholars and preachers – and continue to call upon them – to describe things by their proper names, and to disassociate the word "jiha-d" (a word rich in meaning which is found in our sacred texts) form the activities of those killing organizations which murder innocent people and undermine security in societies around the world – regardless of whether those societies are Muslim or non-Muslim – since carrying out atrocities and targeting civilians is categorically forbidden in Islam.

Today, I must stress how important it is for us to condemn the abominable and criminal acts being perpetrated around the world in Islam’s name and which are being misrepresented as "jiha-d". We must expose those acts and the people who carry them out by calling them what they really are, whether their perpetrators refer to themselves as al-Qaeda, or a jihad organization, or a militant organization or an "Islamic state". It is not enough to give vague indications and make ambiguous general statements.

At the same time, I must stress that it is the right of every country in the world to defend itself against external aggression and to carry out resistance against an invader or occupying power. This is an international right acknowledged by all nations. Nevertheless, carrying out such legitimate resistance neither justifies nor excuses the targeting of civilians and innocents, regardless of where they are.

The problem we are addressing is one of blind civil strife, where "every time it seems to come to an end, it just goes on" as the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said in an authentic tradition describing the tribulations of the Last Days. The onus of quelling this strife and exposing how it violates Islamic teachings falls upon the sincere scholars and preachers of Islam who do not fear the censure of others and who feel no hesitation in calling a crime a crime, regardless of the consequences.



My condemnation of terror stems from my religious faith and my firm convictions. No one has any sway over my beliefs. I am neither for nor against the governments. Regardless of the consequences, I am against deviance, destructive behavior, and acts of atrocity in general, and especially when those acts are perpetrated in the name of religion. I make my position plain.



Indeed, ever since the outbreak of these violent acts, speaking out against them has become a religious, educational and moral imperative for anyone who cares about the future of Islam, our country, the generations to come, and preserving what little stability is left in the Muslim world.

I declare that Allah does not make right the deeds of those who perpetrate atrocities. Nor does He bring the plots of the deceivers to right guidance. Those who, in the name of Islam, kill innocents – and very often they happen to be Muslims – or who claim that by doing so they are upholding Islamic teachings, they will not succeed and they will not set things right. Rather, they will face Allah’s punishment and become a warning to others unless they repent beforehand.

I call upon those who still make excuses and hesitate when they speak to think about the judgment they will face when they will stand before Allah.

The merciful thing to do is to tell those young people who have been deceived, and those who are set to join their ranks tomorrow, that: "This path you are taking is not going to bring you to your goal. It will not save you from Hell or earn you Paradise. Whoever wants success in this life, salvation in the next, and Allah's pleasure should adhere to the true teachings of Islam and keep far away from bloodshed and strife. Do not attempt to reinterpret the faith so as to justify acts that are clearly and patently evil. In the boldness with which you commit such mortal sins, you engage in crimes far worse in Allah's estimation than those whom you purport to condemn."

This should be the message that parents give to their families, that mothers teach their children, that teachers impart to their students, and that preachers address to their congregations. The condemnation of terror should not be connected with any official campaign, media drive, or salaried work. Rather, it should come from an inner sense of religious duty, from our obligation to raise the next generation correctly and to call people to what is right. It should be carried out with the intention of fostering reconciliation in society and building bridges between ourselves and those who disagree with us, which can be achieved on the basis of our shared concern to safeguard our faith and our worldly lives. In our thinking, we need to get beyond defending our individual interests and look to the general good and to the future. Our concern should be for society: its common folk and its leaders, its rich and its poor, those who are righteous and those who are sinners. All of these people are part of our society, and we must share a sense of loyalty with them all.

In all earnest, I call upon our young people to discuss this matter both in person and on the Internet, to uncover the reasons why some people have sympathies for such activities and organizations and how to remedy the causes for those sympathies. I call upon them to hold fast to the clear and explicit teachings of Islam, as set forth in the Qur'an and Sunnah, which warn against sowing dissention, killing, and murder. Indeed, this was one of the last exhortations that the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) made to his followers at the end of his life, on the occasion of his final pilgrimage.

Did the Prophet permit the execution of the leaders of Quraysh in Mecca when they sought to stamp out the Muslims in their midst? No. Or the leaders of the traitorous hypocrites in Madinah when the sought to undermine the nascent Muslim community? No. Did he call for executing the leaders of the Jews when there was a covenant between them? No. Did he ever grant anyone the right to pass personal judgment over others and their faith and carry out punishments? No. Never did he permit such things. What chaos would have been worse than that? But this is what these people today want to reduce us to.

I assert, on the basis of certain conviction, that the people who follow that extreme path, if they ever come into power, will bring destruction and ruin to everything. Society, from its civil cohesion, to its family integrity, to its agriculture, would waste away. Those people would foster civil strife and suffer for it in turn. This is because they have deviated from the straight path. They have no understanding of Islamic teachings and the wisdom behind those teachings. They are ignorant of the natural laws that Allah has placed in His creation. Therefore, they will never be successful and never find divine support. That is for certain, as anyone who has understanding can see. Nevertheless, those people are quite successful in spreading chaos and confusion. They are good at misleading the simple-minded and causing discord, and they are given support in this whenever we are silent, mince our words, or withhold judgment.

May the peace and blessings be upon our Prophet Muhammad, who brought the clear message and established the clear proof. And praise be to Allah, the Lord of All the Worlds.

Don't you guys think that Fashola should be made to run for president? Ok maybe after a second term in Lagos. I couldn't think of anybody better. First of all he is a young man whose ideas would be more in tune with our times. Secondly politician cannot play the religion card against him in the North since he is a Muslim. I also do not think that non-Yoruba Southerners will have any reason not to vote for him. The only problem will the super rigging machine called PDP.