#2-: What is UNKNOWN to all @ some point in time & @ all points in time, except to GOD & the chosen (these are also subdivided according to the capacity of the chosen).

VERSES such as Q72:27 Q3:179 Q18:65 Q31:12 Q20:38 Q2:269 Q16:43 Q34:6 these types of GHAIB are not obtainable through effort alone except with divine clearance, access to them is only through a secured channel. This class will forever remain GHAIB to the commoners.

As classified or declassified in the QURAN, GOD did categorized GHAIB into 3 classes according to the “KNOWERS“.

#1-: What is UNKNOWN to all @ some point in time & @ all points in time: The only KNOWER of these is GOD.

VERSES such as Q18:26 Q2:216 Q6:59 Q12:76 etc where GOD excluded everyone from KNOWING, except himself, are pointers to the first class of the KNOWERS, which is the only real (HAQEEQAH) class, while others are subordinates.

This class is totally sealed off to all. It is part of what makes GOD, GOD. This class eternally remains GHAIB to all.....

AL-GHAIB, like the name denotes, is the UNKNOWN, as in, eternally UNKNOWN.

#The simple definition of it is that, everyone except GOD has got some matters hes ignorant of & those are GHAIB to him. But the moment he gets to know a matter he used to be ignorant of, that known matter automatically gets declassified as GHAIB @least to him. Why ? Coz GHAIB must forever remain the UNKNOWN.

So, in the true sense, no ONE knows GHAIB except GOD coz the UNKNOWN in reality cannot be KNOWN, the moment it becomes KNOWN, it stops bearing, the UNKNOWN. Moreover, there must be something UNKNOWN to all @ one point in time & @ every point in time & GOD is the only KNOWER of them.

#This THEORY if true, makes us understand that GHAIB is RELATIVE. As in what is GHAIB to Mr. A might not be GHAIB to Mr. B. e.t.c.

THE 3 divisions of GHAIB........

LadunaI:

So in nutshell DIVINATION is seeking to know the hidden infos.

Well, in addition, I think, NOT only going to soothsayer for seeking other hidden knowledge like weather forecasting, oil exploration but trying to know about any INDIVIDUAL PERSON'' future, as only Allah know the details of everybody MAN or WOMAN's DESTINY.

So seeking such info even with new age computerized algorithm is REPREHENSIVE in Islam, if am not mistaken.

This is a very loooong one. It revolves around the twins-- GHAIB/ALQADAR. BRB

LadunaI:


"Mathematical science, which is the only real science that the entire civilized world has agreed upon, furnishes unmistakable proof of history repeating itself and shows that the cycle theory, or harmonic analysis, is the only thing that we can rely upon to ascertain the future."

He lied not! If you want to unlock the secret of the universe then study the NUMBERS!

So ifa been subset or sort of mathematics somewhat new to me.

IFA is binary 0-1. e.g when they use cowries, if it opens, thats 2(0) coz the obverse is parted into 2. when it capsizes, thats 1 .

if its colanut, if it opens thats 0 (on) if it capsizes thats 1 (off).
If you check their divination chain, you‘ll notice that those flat beads are designed with an open & close marks on there obverse & reverse just like that of the cowrie/colanut.

Its just like the machine language of a computer system @ the most irreducible level of bits, which is either YES or NO, TRUE or FALSE, 0 or 1.

Please we'll like to KNOW remaining other component fractals.

The sciences of GODHOOD are all embodied in his increated words. All the fractals of prophetism are knowledge based. There is nothing to attain with proximity in GOD other than the cognizance of his essence & of his ayahs.

Whenever GOD appoints a NABI in the QURAN, he says ‘WE GAVE HIM POWER/WISDOM & KNOWLEDGE‘.

So, all the fractals of NUBUWWA are lines (courses) of a single system of KNOWLEDGE & they are all enclosed in the scripture given to them. They use these lines of KNOWLEDGE to get the best out of it.

M.A is a term. This fractal deals with the esoterics of “SPACETIME“. There are those of “CHEMISTRY“ “PHYSICS“ “QUANTUM“ etc of all these, dream is the only one accessible to all in its original form, after the close of NUBUWWA.

The rest are only available in duplicates, even @ that, just for the sages through inheritance. Just like KARAMA is a duplicate of MU‘JIZA.

^^^

The ‘soothsayers‘ refered to by the NABI (saw) @ that time, are idolaters, whose line of divination is inspired by the SHAYATEEN. Believing in them is believing in the SHAYATEEN & that automatically translates to disbelive in GOD.

The NABI(saw) wasnt codemning divination in that hadith but those its gotten from (since ISTIKHARA is also a form of divination).

#Divination exists in various forms. Using computerized programmes & highly sophisticated devices to forecast weather conditions, X-raying, Scanning, ailment diagnosis, exploration geophysics, radiocaborn dating are all some sort of divinations, its only the method that differ.

#They all involve revealing some hidden infos about a matter, whether past, present or futuristic.

#All what these newage methods are employed for would have been refered to the soothsayers in the days of old or through ISTIKHARA. The only downside of the method of the soothsayers is that, they rely on the DEVILS who are sworn enemies of GOD & thus cannot be trusted.

#Now should one go to a soothsayer for a weather forecast & believe him, the condition stated in that hadith will fall on him.

#Mind you, the SHAYATEEN can also or may also utilize these newage methods for divination but still, that wont change the verdict in that hadith. Since its not really about divination or the method of divination but the diviner.

INTERPRETATION OF DREAMS IS ALSO A FORM OF DIVINATION. Meaning a soothsayer will still rely on the devils for its interpretation & the verdict of that hadith will also apply.

AlBaqir:


# Why won't those soldiers beat them when they are all of wahabi ideologist that believe Nabi is "dead and cannot hear or reply"?!

Indeed Quran as exposed people of such ideology that, "Do not say those who died in Allah's path are dead, Nah! they are ALIVE but you do not perceive"


# Here's Hadith sahih:

" [i]It is attributed to Dawud bin Abu Salih. He says: one day
Marwan came and he saw that a man was lying down with
his mouth turned close to the Prophet’s grave. Then he
(Marwan) said to him, “Do you know what are you doing?”
When he moved towards him, he saw that it was Abu Ayyub
al-Ansari (a Sahabi). (In reply) he said, “ Yes (I know) I
have come to the Messenger of Allah and not to a
stone. I have heard it from the Messenger of God not to cry over religion when its guardian is competent. Yes, shed tears over religion when its guardian is incompetent."

# Was that Sahabi worshipping the grave, o you ignorant fanatic?

IF you like quote a million hadith for am...e go still dey tell you what their scholars say ni

AlBaqir:
# Allahu Akbar! Imagine misguidance accusing the other misguidance of misguidance.


Surah Al-Baqara, Verse 36:

"But the Shaitan made them both fall from it, and caused them to depart from that (state) in which they were; and We said: Get forth, some of you being the enemies of others..."

Double wahala for deadi bodi & the owner of deadi bodi

يخربون بيوتهم بأيديهم ـــــ فاعتبروا ياأ ولى اﻷبصار

Would be by the side watching

Empiree:
Ifa is a Scientific and Mathematical System?

I agree with some things she said in this context especially on materialism. Watch this 6 minutes clip and give us ur thought.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Zsq3FSMof8


ikupakuti

Ofcourse, shes right on it being a mathematical (binary) system. But her submission that ifa (geomancy) originated from the yoruba was wrong. It has always been primordial.

Geomancy is rooted in astrology. The original concept of astrology is divine (scriptural). The planets & stars are only a replica of the real deal. You dont need to trail the stars/planet to study it like many people think.

Every NABI is taught the original concept of mystical astrology coz its one of the 46 fractals of prophetism.

But its a knowledge reserved for the elites. Those who inherit the scriptures & failed to measure up were forced to make do with the exoteric aspect of it, and as its is with every divinely revealed knowledge (all the devil needs to get to destroy anything good, is time), it deteriorated with time, with every community individualizing their own line of it according to custom & tradition & thats how fetishism & idolatry crept into it. Reason while the NABI (saw) didnt condemn it entirely even though the one practiced by the arabs at that time is idolatrous.

But one can always see the identical concept in all the present versions from all over the world.

M. A as a scientific & mathematical system is so powerful that the esoterics of religion is almost useless without it.

AlBaqir:
TAWASSUL - MEDIATION/INTERCESSION

# Second, Quran in several verses (most of which are already quoted by the OP) condemned the way of polytheists in calling upon their gods for help. This is different from Islamic form of Tawassul. Here a polytheist believes in the independent power of the god he took besides Allah, or even make that god as Allah.

And this is the only dissimilarity. Attributing powers of acts to others other than GOD. Are muslims not taught in tawheed class that:

ﻻ فاعل فى الوجود إﻻ الله ?

A beautiful example out of many is the Christians and Nabi Jesus. They took him as "God", 3 in 1 i.e same as God or God who manifest in human form therefore they pray directly unto him. This form, Quran condemned, for example:

# Surah Al-Isra, Verse 57:

Those whom they call upon, themselves seek the means of access (wasila) to their Lord-- whoever of them is nearest-- and they hope for His mercy and fear His chastisement; surely the chastisement of your Lord is a thing to be cautious of"

This ayah did not only condemned the act of shrik of e.g the Christians but even exposed the validity of Tawassul.

This sums it up!

Newnas:
“… till when you are in the ships and they sail with them with a favourable wind, and they are glad therein, then comes a stormy wind and the waves come to them from all sides, and they think that they are encircled therein, they invoke Allaah, making their Faith pure for Him Alone…” [Yoonus 10:33]

The shirk of some people nowadays goes even further than the shirk of people in the past, because they direct some acts of worship to something other than Allaah, calling upon them and asking them for help even at times of distress; laa hawla wa laa quwwata illa Billaah (there is no strength and no help except in Allaah). We ask Allaah to keep us safe and sound.

To sum up our response to what your friend mentioned: asking the dead for anything is shirk, and asking the living for anything that no one except Allaah is able to do, is also shirk . And Allaah knows best.

Hmm...so, there are things that others other than ALLAH are able to do on there own ?

Can you give a list of what things ALLAH alone can do & what others too can do on their own, to avoid falling into shirk ? Thanks

AlBaqir:
@ ikupakuti, you are now a "shia" because you are CURSING the Salafs.

# He who lives in a glass house should not throw stones. These guys continue to present "Salaf, Salaf, Salaf" to us as if they were groups and communities of angels. Unfortunately, "Bid'ah" of the highest order can be found with these past salafs, judging by the hushpuff modern day fanatic Salafi's definition of "Bid'ah". And worst still, when they see these clear evidences, they will deliberately twist its meaning.


# These modern day so-called salafist are either ignorant of these facts or deliberately hiding them to continue fooling their gullible followers.

# Really, there are just too much lies and cover ups in the Muslim's "school of knowledge".

Lols they are actually trained to propagate & defend the ideology. Thats why they never listen to reason. Their aim is not the truth but to sell an ideology.

Too bad they forgot to do their homework very well. The SAHEEHs they planned to use as sheild for their weird ideology & proof of their twisted denotation of BID‘A, turned out to be the MASTER TAPE of ‘bid‘a‘.

LadunaI:
@Ikupakuti

What a comprehensive defense dissertation! You make my day!

Actually, if one can broaden one's knowledge to see more, one will be cautious in making HASTE AND INCORRECT religious deductions. And stop been too forward in passing FATWA.

I tell you, if bid‘a as being potrayed by this group were to be a worm, then every salaf has got a hole! & by extension all of us! Inshort ISLAM as recorded & practiced by the salafs is as porous as coal!

If only those BIDI'AH coroner can have holistic view of many texts you cited above, and many more evidence that existed,

Dont be suprised that they are aware of it all.

It seems to me albaqir has induced you one way or the other in this REBUTTAL stuff. Perhaps I may start mine taking empiree way, he is more mild so to say in his defense, unlike you and albaqir now, too ASSERTIVE. Lol

@albaqir is a TEFLON! Ever ready l‘omo. he always goes for the jugular

[/quote]May Allah(swt) BLESS us more of ILMUL NAF'IAN and grant us FORGIVENESS for our shortcomings. Amin.[/quote]

Ameen!

AlBaqir:


# Excellent piece there bro.

# And you can imagine the conservative Salafi who continue to adhere to those views of their fore ulama in Ahmad Ibn Hanbali and Ibn Taymiyyah till date.

Sanctimoniously you mean. They dare not adhere to the fullest! They only quote them when they want to sell their rustic ideology.

# Chemistry, today, hold all gratitude to Jabir Ibn Hayan as Medicine does same to Ibn Sina. Geography, Physics, Art, Mathematics, Philosophy etc Muslims used to be leader and leading innovators in these field, and in turn service to the whole world was at its peak. Alas! These are the people tagged "Ahlu Bid'ah" and condemned into hell fire for their practice by the self acclaimed "Ahlu Sunnah".

# Where's Muslims today? Far far far behind in science, technology, art, literature, philosophy, engineering, architecture etc. Thanks to the ultra conservative teachings of these so-called " shuyukh ul Islam" as if their words are bond upon us.

When you read the exploits of our early scientists, you cant but pity the muslims of today. The muslims have advanced in all these fields when the whole of europe was still sleeping! The muslims developed the process of crystallization, precipitation, distillation & sublimation. If not for the crusade, the muslim spain would have been the capital of chemistry today.

It was on record that this same JABIR is true father of modern chemistry. He is said to have written over 5 hundred treaties! On chemistry alone!

Like the author of THE SPIRIT OF ISLAM said : “CHEMISTRY, AS A SCIENCE, IS UNQUESTIONABLY THE INVENTION OF THE MUSLIMS“

but then not under such superannuated & antiquated mentality being projected by these people!

Today, we are forced to lick the ar.ses of the non-muslims when it comes to advancement!

Empiree:
This is a knockout. You really determined to dig up this. Served them right. But you should have mentioned op's moniker and his cohort in case they 'unfollowed' this thread. They love twisting Islamic texts a lot.

Ofcourse! To sell a white lie, you have to continue twisting history. Thank GOD the books/records are there for all to see & peruse.

What you said here reminds me of "Jinn stories" thread where si.no mentioned that his Ustaz would recite Ya Lateef thousand times and he was very hot. He concluded this is not sunnah. I said is it not Allah's Name he chanted?. How is this not sunnah?. if he wants to say his Ustaz overdosed medicine, fine. Doctor may prescribe "take 2 ibuprofen AM and 2 at bedtime. But you choose to take 5 tabs AM and PM total of 10. Of course you get negative reaction. Thats overdose but still within medical line

If this is what bid‘a really is, then no one is save, not even the salaf. If increasing voluntary aspect of religious acts is bid‘a then non of the salafs will escape ‘hell‘, since all bid‘a leads to hell. They ‘invent‘ with impunity! Lol

CONFUSIONS

#ibn TAYMIYYAH condemns MATHEMATICS & allied courses in his book on KALAM & FALSAFA.

Only if he could see the future! Only if he could have a glimpse of the almighty DIGITAL ERA! Only if!

Thats how they‘ve being making fatwas that have kept the muslims behind in all aspect of developments, all in the name of bid‘a.

#KADRI reported in his book HEAVEN ON EARTH that ibn HANBAL believes human literature to be unholy innovation!

#ibn TAYMIYYAH in majmoo fatwa decleared the shaking of hand after salah to be bid‘a. I think we‘ll have to re-study the hadiths & get the precise time frame the NABI (saw) made salutations in order not to fall into bid‘a. Lols NABI (saw) said spread salam among yourselves to foster love & brotherhood & someone is trying to put a time on it.

#MUSABAQAT QURAN: The NABI (saw) had said there shouldnt be prizes except in horse/camel racing & archery.

https://sunnah.com/tirmidhi/23
Imam GHAZALI (ra) stated in his book KITABUL HIKMAH

“Among the accepted practices of our time are decorating & furnishing of the mosque & expending great sum of money on there ornate construction & rugs which were then considered innovations. These were introduced by the pilgrims as the early muslims seldom place anything on the ground during prayer....they were among the taboos @ the time of the sahaba, the same is true for chanting (TALHIR) of the quran & the call for prayer, going to excess in matter of cleaness....may GOD help us!

....

#S. UTHMAN (ra) ‘innovated‘ the call to prayer on friday @ the begining of zuhr.

https://sunnah.com/tirmidhi/4

#al-ASQALANI reported in fathul bari that the grandsons of the NABI (saw), abdullahi ibn zubair, & some other sahaba do greet the 4 side of the kaaba as opposed to the customary two YEMENI greeted by the NABI (saw).

# S. UMAR(ra) had wanted to limit dowry to 400 silver coins for the women during his reign, when a woman challenged him by reciting Q4:20, he withdrew immediately.

#He also incorporated the addition of ‘PRAYER IS BETTER THAN SLEEP‘ in the adhan for subh prayer.

#ANAS ibn MALIK (ra) invented a different formulea of TALBIYYAH during tawaf.

#BILAL (ra) ‘innovated‘ the prayer after ablution that made his footstep to be heard by NABI (saw) in jannah, what an ‘innovation‘ !

#S. ABUBAKAR (ra) ‘innovated‘ the MUSHAF!

#S. UMAR(ra) treated 3 pronounciation on divorce as 1.

https://sunnah.com/muslim/9

#KHUBAUB IBN ADI (ra) ‘innovated‘ the prayer of two rakhat before death.

#ibn UMAR (ra) made addition to ATTASHOOD in prayer (abu DAWUD)

& THE RELIGION IS COMPLETE!!!

SOME ‘INNOVATED‘ ACTS OF IBADA FROM THE SALAF.

#IT was reported in VIRTUES OF SALAT by SHEIKHUL HADITH: MUHAMMAD ZAKARIYYA KANDHALWI (ra) that :

Imam HANBAL (ra) used to offer 300 rakhat daily, then after he was lashed by the abbasid caliph MA‘MUM he reduced it to 150 rakhat daily. He was around 80 years old @ the time.

#Same Imam HANBAL authorized the recitation of dua‘i KHATMAT QURAN in taraweeh, he told them to lift their hands after NASS before rukh & recite the dua. When asked for its isnad he claimed that SUFYAN ibn UYAUNA (a tabi‘i al tabi‘i) used to do so in makkah. as reported by ibn QUDAMA in MUGHNI 1:802

#Its no news that S. UMAR (ra) ‘innovated‘ TARAWEEH in congregetion but that he also increased it from 8 to 20. Then later generation of MADINITES increased it to 41 rakhats. (Imam MALIK later on developed his mazhab on the custom of the MADINAITES)

https://sunnah.com/tirmidhi/8

#ibn TAYMIYYAH would recite FATIHA from fajr to sunrise as reported by ali al-bazar in ALIYYA 3rd edition.....

#3: HADITH- SAHEEH AL-BAEHAQY/7:76

I have not left anything that will take you closer to GOD except that I have commanded you with it:

One funny interpretation given to this hadith by the upholder of the first 2 VIEWS is that they tend to give it a flat sense as in an absolute sense with an explicit expression.

Question: did he then forgot to enjoin those who performed SUNNATU ATTAQREERIYYA in such acts ?
All those acts of ibada performed by the sahaba that he later got to know of & applauded, did he forgot to enjoin them in those ?

Some even go as far as substituting its simple past verb for a past perfect referencing it to Q5:3, then we ask :

Was that even his last words to his sahaba (ummah) ? No!

Did he continue to enjoin them in other good deeds after that hadith ? Yes !

Has revelation ceased when he utter those words ? No!

He hadnt yet performed HAJJ talkless of showing them its rites in practice when he said that & some people are trying to put a note of explicity & finality on those verbs.

In conclusion, any act that conforms with KITAB & SUNNAH can never answer the name ‘BID‘A‘ in the true sense, cos bid‘a denotes something strange & alien. So, the saying that every bid‘a is kufr is right cos for it to become bid‘a it must have gone against KITAB & SUNNAH.

Was

#2: HADITH OF

https://sunnah.com/nawawi40/28 also from abu dawud

Beware of INNOVATED MATTERS for EVERY newly innovated matter is bid‘a and every bid‘a is misguidance:

#The first key words: ‘INNOVATED MATTERS‘ are what never existed in religion. They look like religion but are not part of it because they contradict KITAB & SUNNAH & have no justification whatsoever in both. Matters invented to seek this world or next but either they have been outrightly banned by GOD or no ground whatsoever can be found for them in KITAB & SUNNAH. Cos in the real sense, a sharia compliant act can never be a bid‘a (innovated matter) which renders the word ‘EVERY‘ subjective.

#The second key word ‘EVERY‘ meaning ‘in totality‘. In the light of the first 2 VIEWS, this word cannot have a subjective context. Then we ask in Q18:84 & Q27:16 God said he gave SULAIMAN & ZUL QARNAEN (as) every means & things respectively. Does that means they are @ per with God ?

Also in Q21:98 God said the KUFAR & that they worship will end up as fuel for hell, does that include ISA (as) & his mum as worshiped by some people ? Lols

Also in Q6:44 God said once he marks a community for destruction, he opens to them the door to everything, does that include the doors of mercy & repentance ?

#1 : HADITH OF A‘ISHA (ra)
https://sunnah.com/muslim/30

HE WHO INNOVATES THINGS IN OUR AFFAIR (THAT) WHICH IS NOT OF IT , (IT) WILL BE REJECTED:

The key point of this hadith is the bolded ‘that which is not of it‘ : What the NABI (saw) is actually saying here inversely as opposed to some people‘s misinterpretation is that : REJECTION IS ONLY SUBJECTED TO NON-COMPLIANCE OF THE ‘INNOVATED‘ MATTER!

If you suspend the negative verb ‘NOT‘, then the resultant negative verb ‘REJECTED‘ will automatically become ‘ACCEPTED‘. This is the reality the upholders of the first 2 VIEWS will never pray you understand.

Hadiths of such nature abound in the books, not to mention the exploits the SAHABAS had with the relics of the NABI (saw) all based on their individual estimations without even consulting each other!

#By duly contemplating all the above laid out points & more, one will be able to see that the NABI (saw) has never for once criticize the use of Qiyas or restricted its usage to a particular group of people or to a particular time like some people are trying to make it look today neither did he alluded that his presence is needed for legislation, so long all verdict/ruling remain on the bearing of KITAB/SUNNAH:

#God or the NABI(saw) never attributed any infallibility to any salaf & neither did he limit the understanding of the DEEN to any group or age.

#Obedience to the SALAF or whoever is a must so far they remain on the bearing of KITAB & SUNNAH coz thats the only condition laid down by GOD in Q4:59: i.e infallibilitu & blind obedience are only due to KITAB & SUNNAH as this vs illustrated. The two have never conflicted but it is on record that the SAHABA disagreed on many issues ranging from AQEEDAH to the trifling of matters, even though they were all trained under same NABI (saw) & that is not a blemish on their esteemed status, not in the least!

NOW, LETS SCRUTINIZE SOME OF THE HADITH USUALLY QUOTED BY THE ADVOCATES OF THE FIRST 2 VIEWS TO DEFEND THEIR STANCES.....

#4:-HADITH OF IBN JABAL (ra)

https://sunnah.com/tirmidhi/15
As narrated by ibn JABAL (ra) when the NABI (ra) dispatched him to YEMEN as governor, he was asked what would be his source of judgement to which he replied QURAN & then SUNNAH & if he couldnt find IN any of the 2 he would rely on his intelligence on deriving a ruling from the previous 2: and the NABI (saw) was pleased @ his response.

Some people tagged this hadith as DAEEF. Maybe on the basis of isnad but definitely not on the basis of matn. Cos if it was on the basis of matn, then we‘ll ask :

#Did the NABI (saw) ever sent some SAHABA to some certain province ? Yes!

#Without such interogation like that of ibn JABAL ever recorded, what would have being their source of judgement ? Definitly QURAN & then SUNNAH!

#What if no ruling is derived from both, will ‘ibn JABAL‘ have to race down to MADINA from YEMEN to get fatwa ?

#Is that how all the appointed governors after the NABI (saw) ran down to MADINA for IJMA from their respective locality ? NO!

# Was there any written constitution handed to any of them at the point of appointment ? No!

#Is it even possible for @least 5 Governors in their respective localities to pass an identical fatwa on an identical religious matter from their respective opinions ? Very hardly!

# But then, their fatwas will surely have one thing in common & thats conformity to KITAB & SUNNAH!

2:- HADITH OF IBN UMAR (ra)

https://sunnah.com/tirmidhi/13
As narrated by ibn umar (ra) whom his dad ordered to divorce a wife disliked by umar (ra). Ibn umar refused & mentioned it to NABI (saw) who supported the opinion of UMAR but never questioned UMAR on why he relied on his personal observation on whatever it may be to order a divorce nor did he (NABI) questioned ibn umar on why he refused to obey his dad initially.

3:- HADITH OF ABU SAI‘D AL-KHUDRI (ra)

https://sunnah.com/bukhari/76

As narrated by Sai‘d alkhudri, where one among a group of SAHABA treated a bite or sting with FATIHA after negotiating a pay for service by applying his saliva on the affected spot. They later refused the payment until they inquired from NABI (saw) whether accepting such payment is lawful but not whether utilizing FATIHA as a curer is. The NABI (saw) didnt object to or question both & even requested for a cut.

APPROVAL ON FORMING OF OPINION


As far as I know,there is no where the NABI (saw) ever condemned the application of opinion in religious matters. He would rather criticize or condemn the ensuing judgement if it contradicts the KITAB & SUNNAH but not the application of opinion itself. This is a silent approval for personal IJTIHAD. Again, there is no where he ever said such rights are only limited to the SALAF only, whether during his lifetime or after or that it doesnt extend to later generations of MUSLIMS.

1:- HADITH OF UMMU HANI (ra)

https://sunnah.com/bukhari/64

As narrated by UMMU HANI bnt ABI TALIB (ra) during the conquest of MAKKAH when she granted asylum to a KAFIR & her brother S. ALI (ra) decleared to kill him. She reported to the NABI (saw) who said ‘O UMMU HANI! We will grant asylum to the one whom you granted asylum‘.

The point here is that, both IMAM ALI & his sister (ra) used their personal opinion as to what is right with both‘s judgment contradicting. The NABI (saw) upheld one & cancled the other without quering them as to why they both decided to legislate on such sensitive religious matter on their own even while he was there with them

#3: The proponents of the third VIEW endorse the two aforementioned VIEWS & in addition, to all whatever conforms with KITAB & SUNNAH even if they werent SPECIFICALLY documented as having precedents in HADITHS & the practices of the SALAF.

I personally, subscribe to the third representation as being more in harmony with KITAB & SUNNAH. I believe the advocates of the first 2 VIEWS have alot of Questions to answer from the QURAN & SUNNAH to prove the feasibility of those VIEWS.

#I am going to highlight some of them. Pls, anyone who subscribe to any of the above 3 VIEWS can come in to support or oppose with backup evidence from KITAB & SUNNAH.

#IF you are going to quote a scholar, make sure his opinion is rooted in KITAB & SUNNAH & PLS, lets discuss within the ambit of understanding & civility.

#2: The second group uphold the first VIEW & in addition, to what the SALAF did legislated upon after the demise of NABI (saw) which has no precedents in SUNNAH, even though those matters lack direct approval from him.

Those who subscribe to this VIEW believe & maintain that, legislations & interpretation of religion ended with the SALAF era & any understanding in DEEN MUST conform with that of the SALAF.

IN UNDERSTANDING OF THE ANTITHESIS: Completion of ISLAM & BID‘A

There are 3 major VIEWS held by MUSLIMS as to what the above antithesis really denotes.

#1: ONLY what the NABI (saw) SPECIFICALLY instructed to be done in RELIGION. This also include SUNNATU TAQREERIYYAH (acts done in his presence by the SAHABAS using their own personal sense of judgement, intuition based on their understanding of the DEEN) which the NABI (saw) gave approval for or never objected to.

Those who uphold this VIEW believe & maintain that, legislation on matters of DEEN are due to him only i.e his presence is needed for legislation. As such, his demise has truncated further legislations on religious matters & thats what COMPLETION OF DEEN means to them.

Empiree:
why is it that anytime you brothers opened a thread to proof your position against majority of the Muslims and we come on board to refute you, you always give up when you have no counterclaim?. I have noticed this trend/. You usually put your tale btw your legs and run away

Lols they dont like being checkmated & they are usually the first to stir the honey‘s nest. And when their pack of lies start crumbling instead of them to capitulate in honour, they take the cowardly exit...run.

I dont understand why one would subscribe to an ideaology he cant defend.

LadunaI:


Thanks. I can relate well with this now, having gone through your previous post on the fardaniyyah.

I believed the essence of shariah, be it IBADAH, muamaallat, adab etc as encapsulated in Islam is been summarized in above paragraph so that we can reach that zenith of WORSHIPING Allah (swt) as if we are "SEEING" HIM, for if we cannot see HIM, HE is seeing us. Such is that lofty level of IHSAN!

You just nailed it! So precise & direct! and thats the glory of it all.

May Allah bless US with such realities amin.

Ameen!

Relax, nothing to get agitated over, its all for understanding.

AbooUthaymeen:
Look at the post I was replying well before you jump into conclusions....

Lols ofcourse! I did look! Arent you the advocate of using the ambagious to interprete the less ambagious ? Arent they all talking about the rightly guided after him ? Arent they all under the KITAB SUNNAH, dealing with same subject ? Can you show me the contradiction in the subject matter of the 2 ?

Al-jama‘ah in this particular hadeeth still means “whatever me and my companions are upon“

Yes! But you are trying to narrow it down to one person, mind you, here we are talking about who to follow & not who followed. So, as far as the NABI(saw) & his UMMAH are concerned, that personality can never suit a single person.

When he was yet married ? When he was thrown into the fire ? Was he not the only one upon truth when he destroyed their idols....

YES! Before he did all that! Maybe you should stop assuming. The vs you quoted is Q16:120 now you are quoting ANBIYYAH where nothing of such was mentioned. In the vs you quoted, GOD was giving a comprehensive remark on NABI IBRAHIM (as) to buttress preceeding ayahs only. There were not any discussion of his prior, in the sura. So, how did you now @ what certain point in his lifetime God was refering to ?
And even the ANBIYYAH you quoted for support, the next vs says, after he was delivered out of fire, he was helped to escape from his people along with LUT! to a blessed land! So, this verses nullify the claim that NABI IBRAHIM was the only believer as of that time & by extension, the UMMAH title of him does not denote JAMMAH but his size of IMAN.
ALL those tafsirs you quoted for support are off!

I wasnt going to answer them....

If you dont, I will. For the sake of clarification. Cos those misunderstood points are the bane of understanding in this UMMAH.

AbdelKabir:


For one who wants clarification , Al-jama'ah in this particular hadeeth still means "whatever me and my companions are upon" since one version says "Al-jama'ah" and another says "whatever me and my companions are upon" it is incumbent on us to interpret the ambiguous text with the clear one.....

You dont have to distort his post. In the hadith he quoted, the NABI (saw) was specifically addressing ‘some‘ of his sahabas & not even later generations coz he said “whoever live long enough among you after me“ to follow the rightly guided among his other sahabas & not that later generations should follow all his sahabas as you are trying to paint it.--ofcourse later generations are gonna live after him, so the advice is not addressed to them @least not directly.

Also jama'ah does not necessarily mean a group of people in the shareeah like the he said, that's only a linguistic meaning....

Jammah means a GROUP whether in LUGGA or SHARI‘A! as far as this hadith is concerned! And that ‘GROUP‘ is the NABI (saw) & his rashidun (ra), the NABI(saw) wont advise that any group to be followed unless their practices conforms with those of that ‘GROUP‘

Verily Ibrahim(alayhi salatu wa salaam) was an Ummah

Subhanallaah, Allaah called only Ibrahim an ummah, why because he was the only upon truth as at then, how did I know? Allaah says
َ
And he was not of the polytheists....

Lols...here GOD wasnt refering to him as a JAMMAH but the size of IMAN! & he wasnt the only one upon the truth then, hes got wives & children @least! & there was LUT also as @ then.
Besides, the NABI (saw) also made such declearation & he wasnt the only MUSLIM then. Not being a mushreek dosnt mean hes the only muslim

So Albaqir was right in all his submission. Lets learn to accept the TRUTH & leave sentiments aside.

GOD accepted what even the devil said in Q38:82-84 coz its the TRUTH!

The questions are waiting on the other side.