kabasa77:



I have answered you time without number. You are just being annoying.. Christains here on EARTH can pray for a fellow Christian to God forgiveness, as stated in the passages you quoted, but it is entirely wrong when you pray to Saints in Heaven to pray on your behalf when the Bible is clear that that's the sole duty of Jesus as our one and only mediator who is sitted at the right hand of the father making intercessions for us.. How is that so hard for you to assimilate and comprehend?

Wait...first things first...

Are you finally admitting that you were wrong when you said only Jesus can pray for our forgiveness?

kabasa77:




Don't be silly Mr... You are the ones who are idol worshippers, worshiping the Queen of Heaven, where in your Bible was your Mary crowned the Queen of Heaven, and what of your silly immaculate birth of Mary?

The Bible have said it, we have only one mediator and intercessor, Jesus, you can pray for your brother here on earth, but you don't pray to those already in heaven to help you, when Jesus is there.. Continue in your folly

Haha! The heretic who said Christians cant pray for others sins to be forgiven is now trying to avoid his own heresy.

He'll rather divert to other accusations than accept what the Bible says on praying for sins of others.

1John5:16 If you see any brother or sister commit a sin that does not lead to death, you should pray and God will give them life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that you should pray about that.

John20:22 When he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”

kabasa77:


Don't mention me again..

Haha! The heretic who said Christians cant pray for others sins to be forgiven has been pushed to a dead end by his own lies.

He'll rather runaway than accept what the Bible says.

1John5:16 If you see any brother or sister commit a sin that does not lead to death, you should pray and God will give them life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that you should pray about that.

John20:22 When he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”

kabasa77:

My brother please let this argument,,even with the truth starring blankly at these ones the will still continue to raise baseless arguments, atleast you have given him enough attention and room to showcase his ignorance and also remember the Bible said we should desist from such meaningless argument that's profits nothing.. Let them continue in their Idol worship, as the Bible said let him that sins Continue sinning, and him that does righteously continue, for the time is near.. Its just a matter of time.

Ah! This is the heretic who said Christians cant pray for others sins to be forgiven.

Should we discard the two books below as 'symbols' sir?

1John5:16 If you see any brother or sister commit a sin that does not lead to death, you should pray and God will give them life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that you should pray about that.

John20:22 When he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”

Splinz:


Stale. If you lack comprehension, sorry I can't help you.

Rev 6:9 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slaughtered for the word of God and for the testimony they had given; 10 they cried out with a loud voice, “Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long will it be before you judge and avenge our blood on the inhabitants of the earth?”

They know whats happening on earth...and they pray about it.

Praise the Lord!

Splinz:


Straws man arguments. Recycling the same thing over and over again. Are you this dull?

Splinz:


There's a difference between praying for God's forgiveness and one sinner sitting in a corner calling for confessions that sins may be forgiven.

A sinner forgiving sins? What heresy! Indeed, Babylon the great.

John20:22 When he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”

Who should i believe...Jesus or splinz?

Splinz:


Eyaa... he doesn't even know that the apostles were fellow Christians just like every other Christian.

Thats miles away from the points.

1. You said the apostles were not given power to forgive sins, John20:22,23 said they were. Should I believe you and disbelieve Jesus...or should we dismiss the book of John too as false 'symbols?'

Splinz:


There's a difference between praying for God's forgiveness and one sinner sitting in a corner calling for confessions that sins may be forgiven.

A sinner forgiving sins? What heresy! Indeed, Babylon the great.

John20:22 When he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”

Who should i believe...Jesus or splinz?

Splinz:


Again I repeat, what is being described here is symbolical and not a literal representation. This is a common understanding of the book of Revelation.

Of course, I don't expect you to know it. I mean, for those who think of Revelation 12 “woman” as Mary, your ignorance is not a surprise.

Rev 6:9 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slaughtered for the word of God and for the testimony they had given; 10 they cried out with a loud voice, “Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long will it be before you judge and avenge our blood on the inhabitants of the earth?”

Try again...to explain how the saints cannot pray/know about happenings on earth. Your last effort fell flat. Kabala77, help him o.

Splinz:


And I asked again: When last did your priest come to you and confess his sins and you forgave him?

Thats miles away from the points.

1. You said the apostles were not given power to forgive sins, John20:22,23 said they were. Should I believe you and disbelieve Jesus...or should we dismiss the book of John too as false 'symbols?'

Splinz:


How come your priest have never come to you and confess his own sins?

John 20:23 is taken out of context. It doesn't bestow the power to forgive sins on any priest or pastor. Matthew 6:12 states: “And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.” Do you now understand it?

John20:22 When he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”

Who should i believe...Jesus or splinz?

Splinz:


How come your priest have never come to you and confess his own sins?

John 20:23 is taken out of context. It doesn't bestow the power to forgive sins on any priest or pastor. Matthew 6:12 states: “And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.” Do you now understand it?



Nothing in this passage even remotely suggest that men have the power to forgive sins. You'll also say God made man the judge and the liberator? Heretics!



In Mark 2:1-10, Jesus showed that for sicknesses to be healed, sins must be forgiven first. Thus He first said “Son, thy sins are forgiven.” The Scribes understood the implication of what it means to forgive sins—that it is God's exclusive right, thus reasoning in their hearts, they thought Jesus was blaspheming.

So James 5:14 isn't rocket science. For God to heal the sick according to the prayers of the elders, He must first of all forgives the sins of the sufferer. Why don't you also say that it is by the power of the elders that the sick will be healed?

The essence of this your poor gymnastics is to support kabasa77 that christians cannot pray for God to forgive other people's sins abi?

Splinz:


Are you lacking in comprehension skills or is it “symbolism” that you don't understand?

Be sensible in your comments.

Rev 6:9 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slaughtered for the word of God and for the testimony they had given; 10 they cried out with a loud voice, “Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long will it be before you judge and avenge our blood on the inhabitants of the earth?”

Try again...to tell me that saints in heaven dont know and pray about events on earth. Kabasa77, help him.

Splinz:


Oh, he doesn't even know the Greek word translated “bible.” In his head, the bible is the coinage of his church. Of course, the word “bible” conjures mystery in some people’s minds, just like you. Now learn: From the Greek biblos, it simply means “a sheet or scroll of writing; book.”

And please, stop making that fallacious statements of I kneeling before the bible. I am no idolater like you. And yes... I know your own version of the bible with the apocrypha on its pages is corrupt and therefore, not an inspired word of God but of men with ulterior motives.

My own Scriptures is the inspired word of God, handed down to instruct all in righteousness.

You probably misread the questions. Here they are again:

Where did Jesus mention "bible?" which you kneel before?

Show me where it is written that the books of Mark and Luke are inspired...

Splinz:


Where did you quote that from? The book of Revelation—a vision! Almost everything in Revelation is symbolic.

Stop looking for every means of justifying your idol worship. Mary is in her grave awaiting the resurrection just like Abraham, David and the rest.

Easymancfc, ubenedictus

It has begun. Now that they see their heresies are clearly contradicting scripture, they are starting to eviscerate the bible, just like Martin Luther removed 7books.

Now, Revelation, not valid. Will kabasa77 also remove the books of John, James and 1John from his bible?

Splinz:


Your church is false and therefore damned!



What nonsense! Go and learn how the Old Testament patriarchs compiled and canonized the Hebrew Scriptures, and then finally concluded with the addition of the New Testament by the apostles. You must be thinking it's everyone that buys your church's tales of compiling the Bible. Of course, your church known for its infamous activities, only changed the correct order of the Holy Scriptures into the wrong format that is in circulation today.

For example: The general epistles like James, Timothy etc, were to follow the Acts of the apostles before Romans.



Yes. Jesus is the word.



How can the inspired word of God be an idol?

Where did Jesus mention "bible?" which you kneel before?

Show me where it is written that the books of Mark and Luke are inspired...

So is the bible your idol?

kabasa77:


Mary was human as you and I, she believed in Jesus, she was even in the room when the apostles received the Holy Spirit, and even as the Bible never wrote about the 12 apostles being in Heaven, i know the are, so quit this childish argument, that is no Catholic teaching, every Matured Christian knows this.

Believing and being in the upper room doesnt guarantee that she didnt backslide.

So you are adding teachings to the Bible and claiming those believe it are matured christians. But you cannot say where these 'matured Christians' got their teaching from. How can you be so sure of something the bible never said, Mr 'Bible believing Christian?'

kabasa77:

And when I said Christains can interceed I told you intercession is in of two parts, we can pray for one another, it's different from the intercession Jesus does for us in heaven, why is that so hard for you to understand.. But when you get to heaven Jesus is there also pleading on our behalf as a mediator and as an intercessor..

Ok. You said Christians can pray for others but cant pray for their sins to be forgiven. That is heresy.

kabasa77:

My brother you are getting it wrong, when you are taking about intercession, there are two parts to it.. First, as Christians we can pray for one another, Bible even says we should carry one another burden, but the second part of intercession is pleading on behalf of a person for the wrong such a person committed.. That's where Jesus has the sole authority, Mary cannot plead for ur sins, thats blasphemy, firstly she was never the one that died on the cross, only Jesus who died on the cross has that Authority.. So when you talk about intercession, you must understand the context...

In John 20:23, Jesus gives men power to forgive sins.

1Johnt:16 If you see your brother or sister committing what is not a mortal sin, you will ask, and God will give life to such a one—to those whose sin is not mortal. There is sin that is mortal; I do not say that you should pray about that.

James5:14 Is anyone among you sick? Let them call the elders of the church to pray over them and anoint them with oil in the name of the Lord. 15 And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise them up. If they have sinned, they will be forgiven

Easymancfc, ubenedictus, splinz, effico

Pls help me look at this heresy o

Splinz:


I know it. You want to tell me of some demonic appearances and messages in the name of Mary?

No. I want to tell you of saints in heaven and how they know what is happening on earth...and how they pray to God about it.

Rev 6:9 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slaughtered for the word of God and for the testimony they had given; 10 they cried out with a loud voice, “Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long will it be before you judge and avenge our blood on the inhabitants of the earth?”

Do you still arrogantly insist that Mary doesnt know what is happening on earth...or are ready to humble yourself and admit your ignorance.

Splinz:


Which statue of Jesus? Was it Jesus that told you that is how He looks?

The Church told me so...the same Church that compiled the bible you kneel before.

Is it Jesus that told you about the bible?

Does that make the book your idol?

kabasa77:


It is you and your lot that has refused to accept the truth. Ur arguments are lame, where is it written, thats all to you have to say, and if your savior Mary is not in Heaven, where is she?

I asked you to show me where the bible told you that Mary is in heaven...but because you cannot provide it, you begin to make up a story of Mary being my saviour that I never claimed. I know she is in heaven because the Catholic Church told me. As for you how do you know? Or do you subscribe to Catholic teaching?

kabasa77:

I have given you two explicit Bible passages stating that Jesus is the only mediator we have between us and man.. Men, am done with you

Yet you said Christians can intercede for other Christians on earth but once they move to heaven they lose their intercessory power.

But you cant show where the bible said the bold.

Splinz:


Poor innocent woman, sleeping peacefully in her grave till the resurrection. Unaware that she has been deified. SMH

So you believe that Mary is unaware of happenings on earth?

easymancfc:


do you actually know intercession is

yes Bible says they are bearing prayers but to do what with??... they take the prayers of the Saints on earth and offer it to God's altar.. if that's not intercession then tell me what it is...

Secondly if prayers are only meant for God and Jesus.. then how did these 24 human elders get the prayers with them

Kabasa77 might say they 24 elders stole the prayers from God.

Splinz:


"And Joshua rent his clothes, and fell to the earth upon his face before the ark of the LORD until the eventide, he and the elders of Israel, and put dust upon their heads" (Joshua 7:6).

How does that picture you have up there depicts Joshua lying down before the ark of the LORD? Why are you trying to drag idolaters like you into Joshua 7:6?

Besides, the ark of the LORD was the glory of the LORD in ancient Israel—a glory which has long departed. Is the idol of 'a' Mary and Jesus now the ark of the LORD?

Oh...so when Joshua prostrates before images on the Ark, it is okay...

When you kneel before a book printed with paper and ink, it is okay...

But when I kneel before a statue of Jesus, it is an abomination?

kabasa77:


My brother you are getting it wrong, when you are taking about intercession, there are two parts to it.. First, as Christians we can pray for one another, Bible even says we should carry one another burden, but the second part of intercession is pleading on behalf of a person for the wrong such a person committed.. That's where Jesus has the sole authority, Mary cannot plead for ur sins, thats blasphemy, firstly she was never the one that died on the cross, only Jesus who died on the cross has that Authority.. So when you talk about intercession, you must understand the context...

So you're saying a Christian cannot pray for God to forgive another person's sins?

Hmm...this is a new heresy. Ubenedictus, did the Arian heresy go this far?

kabasa77:


Question: "What is the purpose of Jesus interceding for us in Heaven?"

Answer: Speaking of Jesus, the writer to the Hebrews says, “Therefore He is able also to save forever those who draw near to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them” (Hebrews 7:25). This verse (and others like it) tells us that although Christ’s work to secure the salvation of the elect was completed on the cross, as evidenced by His cry “It is finished!” (John 19:30), His care for His redeemed children will never be finished.

Jesus did not go to heaven after His earthly ministry and “take a break” from His role as eternal Shepherd to His people. “For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life” (Romans 5:10, emphasis added). If when humble, despised, dying, and dead, He had the power to accomplish so great a work as reconciling us to God, how much more may we expect that He will be able to keep us now that He is a living, exalted, and triumphant Redeemer, raised to life and interceding on our behalf before the throne (Romans 8:34). Clearly, Jesus is still very active on our behalf in heaven.

After Jesus ascended to heaven and was seated at the right hand of God the Father (Acts 1:9; Colossians 3:1), He returned to the glory He had before His incarnation (John 17:5) to carry on His role of King of kings and Lord of lords—His eternal role as the second Person of the triune God. While this old earth continues to be “won” for Christ, Jesus is the Advocate for Christians, meaning He is our great Defender. This is the intercessory role He currently fulfills for those who are His (1 John 2:1). Jesus is always pleading our case before the Father, like a defense lawyer on our behalf.

Jesus is interceding for us while Satan (whose name means “accuser”) is accusing us, pointing out our sins and frailties before God, just as he did with Job (Job 1:6-12). But the accusations fall upon deaf ears in heaven, because Jesus’ work on the cross paid our sin debt in full; therefore, God always sees in His children the perfect righteousness of Jesus. When Jesus died on the cross, His righteousness (perfect holiness) was imputed to us, while our sin was imputed to Him at His death. This is the great exchange Paul talks about in 2 Corinthians 5:21. That took away forever our sinful state before God, so God can accept us as blameless before Him.

Finally, it is important to understand that Jesus is the only mediator between God and man. No one else—not Mary, not any previous Christian saints, not angels—has the power to intercede for us before the throne of the Almighty. Christ alone mediates and intercedes between God and man. “For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus” (1 Timothy 2:5).

Before you copy and paste, read the questions first, else you copy and paste an epistle that fails to answer two simple questions. I ask again:

Is it that only Jesus can beg God on our behalf...or Jesus and Christians on earth can beg God on our behalf?

Secondly, you said "in Heaven you don't have the right to intercede for anyone, the Bible is very clear on that..."

Please show us the verse that said so?

kabasa77:


Mr Man read up above and see where I answered that.. Stop repeating yourself

Mary died like every other Christian and was buried.. Your questions shows you are a baby in christ. Am done answering you

I expect you to stop answering me because you cannot show where the Bible told you that Mary is in heaven...or that those in heaven cannot intercede like those on earth.

And you seem to ashamed to admit it...so the next thing is...to run.

kabasa77:


Bible never said the were interceeding, just that the were bearing the prayers of Saints, thats a very different issue.. Stop twisting the scriptures

So you believe that saints who have passed from this life can hold/offer/bear our prayer before Jesus...but that they cannot say their own words of prayer for the saints on earth.

Do you believe saints in heaven know what is happening on earth and can pray about it?

kabasa77:

The are alive in Christ but can't make any intercession for you, Jesus has such Authority, as the Bible has made it clear

1. How do you know that Mary is alive in Christ? Where did the bible tell you that?

2. Where did the Bible say the bold?

@kabasa77,

I asked: You still dont want to accept that Mary, Peter, John, Abraham, Jacob, Isaac are all alive in Christ?

No answer from you yet.

kabasa77:


Intercession can mean praying for someone, it can also mean standing in the gap on behalf of another, in the case of Jesus, he is the only one that is qualified to beg God on our behalf because the Bible says if we sin we have an advocate Jesus, not Mary not the Saints in heaven, the bible is clear, and Paul was talking to Christains on Earth, in Heaven you don't have the right to intercede for anyone except Jesus, the Bible is very clear on that and I hate repeating myself.. If you don't want to accept the truth, it's your call..

Your answer is contradicting itself.

Is it that only Jesus can beg God on our behalf...or Jesus and Christians on earth can beg God on our behalf?

Secondly, you said "in Heaven you don't have the right to intercede for anyone, the Bible is very clear on that..."

Please show us the verse that said so.

kabasa77:


Paul said let Supplication be made by living people for living people, not asking some dead person to pray for you..

Aha! So how can living people pray for living people if Jesus is the only intercessor for Christians?

kabasa77:


And where is it written that the dead should interceded for the living. I guess you don't read the Bible, read it and gain knowledge, I answered u by giving you Bible verses that point to Jesus and only Jesus as the mediator and intercessor for Christian having made a public show of principalities and powers and is seated at the right hand of the Father making intercessions for us..

You still dont want to accept that Mary, Peter, John, Abraham, Jacob, Isaac are all alive in Christ?

doyinbaby:
Why do Catholics pray to Mary and other dead saints ...also why do Catholics pray to God through Mary and through dead saints...........many protestants including me find it difficult to understand this aspect of the life of Catholics

Though your question has been answered, let me buttress.

Mary, the apostles and all the saints are more alive than you and I.

We are still battling with sin & death, but they have conquered sin & death and are now LIKE GOD (1John3:2).

Once you understand this, you understand that St. Peter is in a better position to pray for you than apostle Suleiman.