Smeago007:



Don't bow to any graven image
That's it

As simple as it is..
Even if its God himself being carved
Don't bow down to it..
Its idol worship

1. Do you know the difference between bowing to and bowing before.

2. Did Joshua worship idol in Joshua 7:6?

3. Do you think this lady below is kneeling to the bible...or kneeling before it?

Themandator:


They had the indwelling but not yet matured in the knowledge of God and his ways as to fully understand that it was in them. They needed tangibles in other to relate with the new idea of God they found. If they had enough knowledge they would go home and mark according mark 16:17 but they didn't because they were yet baby Christians when they become sons they will not need handkerchiefs.

Where did the bible tell you that they were baby christians, hence their need for handkerchief? Which verse?

Themandator:


My pastor carries more grace than myself so , YES.

What if your pastor prays over a picture, can you use the picture for a spiritual purpose, like you can use his handkerchief?

Themandator:



Because grace is in levels. That you carry the spirit of God doesnt mean you carry the same levels of grace. While Jesus was around, the apostles where known as disciples because you are a disciple to the one that teaches you the truth you dont know. When he left, they became apostles teaching another sets of disciples ....You don't expect their disciples to Carry the same amount of depth of the knowledge of God as themselves hence the handkerchiefs carried the excess grace ( authority) that they were yet to build up in themselves to places where such was needed.

The apostles and their disciples are not gracemates....So they can't do same mighty works

1. Where did the bible tell you that Paul's handkerchief had more grace than those christians (who already had the indwelling of the Holy Spirit)?

2. What about handkerchiefs, oils and shadows of your pastor? Is it okay for you to use it?

easymancfc:


They don't contain God but God can use them, just like he used Paul's handkerchief and Peter's shadow, concerning the ark... the ark, the point was that God commanded images to be made.. cherubims on the ark, the brass serpent did not contain God but God used it to heal the Israelites in the deserts all these did not contain demons I wonder why Catholic images must contain demons according to you

If only he can understand this...but they'd rather manufacture their own position, call it catholic belief, and criticize it.

Themandator:




So sorry I can't repeat all this with you , I have gone through it with italo that if you do a back read of the last four pages you are most likely to find them but to answer this one: in the old God visited his people and stayed in those objects to speak to them but after the new covenant, this cease to be the practice as he came down into men on Pentecost and our very self became the temple , the ark , stone etc


The old believers had the experience of visitation but the new covenant believers have indwelling of God ....We are now all gods and children of the Most High ....Psalm 82:6 ...... John 10:34

Then why did the new covenant believers need Paul's handkerchief and Peter's shadow?

Themandator:



If you agree that your church is the pillar and foundation of truth and not the Bible, for crying out loud, what are you saying in essence? It not that your church doctrines and teachings whether scriptural or not are suoerior to the Bible ...Is it nor what tour statement connotes?

Wrong.

And you havent shown me where Jesus said "read the bible - genesis to revelation."

Still dodging that one.

Themandator:




Sir, I can't go back and look for it but I will paraphrase you: you said , the church then Catholic in bracket is the foundation and pillar of truth as said by the holy spirit.

Or you were not in your self when wrote that .......

Nowhere did i say church doctrine is superior to bible.

Stop lying.

Themandator:


Every true believer in the works of the cross and the indwelling of the spirit of God are the "we". We are the the Ines that got the holy spirit in us who is the teacher of all truth. When he entered us he became the pillar

So all these 'believers' teaching milions contradictory doctrines are the Church?

Themandator:

No image can teach jack.....

No pastor, no oil, no shadow, no image, no bible, no book, no handkerchief can teach or heal...but the Holy Spirit can use any of the above to teach or heal.

Themandator:

It is only filled with demonic and dark forces of hell.

That is your opinion...which doesnt matter. To me, and to the Catholic Church Jesus founded, it is filled with the Holy Spirit.

Themandator:

He lives in me ....Praise God!!!

Your opinion. To me, he lives in me and in his Catholic Church.

You still havent shown me where i said church doctrine is superior to bible.

You havent shown me where Jesus said you should read bible (genesis to revelation)

omojeesu:


On the contrary the article has provided the right interpretation of the passage. Your church is in error.

Please, tell me:
1) WHO IS A CHRISTIAN?
2) ARE YOU A CHRISTIAN?
3) WHAT IS CHURCH?
4) WHAT IS CHRISTIANITY?
5) WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO BE SAVED?
6) HAVE YOU BEEN SAVED?

First, have you done the bold below? What is your answer?

Syncan:


Just ask yourself one question, [b]Can the pillar and ground of truth teach error? [/b]Then put the whole body of people claiming Christians together and see the level of error being taught. That can't be the church, use your God giving intellect, stop following falsehood as proposed by that article.

Themandator:



When meaning is not clear start from the beginning is the admonition of my Bishop. Go back and re read the entire page ....The church is not a building but a collection of saints ...We are the church , the house of the living God ....He came down into us on Pentecost.....We are the pillar and ground of truth and we forsake not the assembly of the saints for we are gods and children of the most high.

We come and agree in the truth from the scripture as taught by the only teacher if the saints , the holy spirit. The Bible is the collection of the activities of the early saints and Christ. It is written for our examples and guide ......Romans 15:4


You solve mathematical problems by studying examples ...Where did you get your idea that after Pentecost images were still acceptable to God as his seeking place?


My Pastor has never said anything he could not find in the scripture, particularly the new testament. If it is in the old and not new you can ignore it .

You catholics are predictable in discussion, when your points don't fly play to the gallery ......Focus on our image subject and not my part for not even your pope has imparted your life since he was sworn him ...Or can you host any message he gave that has lighted your spirit and knowledge of God.

I value my pastor and bishop more than your pope for you people claim that Peter was your first pope and he took his time to go minister to new conversation and played hands on them to received the gift of the holy ghost evidences by speaking in tongues but your brand of Peter doesn't speak let alone lay hands on others to receive


Finish your image worship and come write another satanic rejoinder from Joshua since your pope doesn't know that Joshua never had God dwelling inside of him like it is the case today after Pentecost.

Go and romance that high rise image of a woman encased in glass and tell her to pray to your God for you. My Bishop say we pray directly through Jesus and in the name of Jesus and showed us where it is in the Bible ....I am the way the truth and the kids and no one comes to the father except by me ...Very clear


You support your argument with the rich fool who is not even a believer all just to stay afloat and be considered to the making sense

Who are the "we" that are the church, pillar and foundation of truth?

Themandator:


This was part of your rejoinder , your sign off in one of our discourse : And you are free to print books and kneel and worship them, and to kneel and worship your pastors. As for me, the Holy Spirit said the (Catholic) Church is the pillar and foundation of truth, not the bible...or your childish interpretation of it.


If your brand of holy spirit told you that the catholic church is the pillar and foundation of truth are you not saying that the teachings and doctrines of image worship are superior to the Bible acts of Jesus himself and of his disciples who never worshipped any demonic image or what is that truth of the catholic church that your holy spirit endorsed as the truth if not her teachings and doctrines



Interpret for yourself and see if I added anything sauce...Not the Bible ...Look for it in your statement ...I don't know how to bold with iPad I would have bolded the statement

I have never heard or seen image worship.

Please where did i say church doctrine is superior to bible. Quote me and stop telling more lies.

Amberon:
Keep justifying your idolatry and apparitions from demons. Oh...its sunday, just about time to worship a statue right?

No. Time for you to worship your pastor, book and oil.

Themandator:


The catholic church is home to gay fathers. Just Google the catholic bishops of Warri and sex scandal and see what turns up ...If the woman had nor confess he would probably have been in line for your sainthood .....So many of your father can't swear that they have been true to what they swore to .

So if one that marries can fall you can imagine what the one that claims not to need a woman you be doing behind your back .....Get close to the beautiful ladies in your church and hear who your real father is

Yes. But they dont claim that sexual immorality is 'higher grace' like Pastor Biodun COZA and other pastors.

Themandator:

I was once a Catholic.

So?

Themandator:



Leave the italo guy. He has engaged me with different monikers in matter of image and I have explined to him that all images in church premises and jokes for purpose of worship are demonic as we are the express image of God and the death of Jesus was so we could received the spirit of God on Pentecost.

He went and brought Joshua praying before the status and I have told him that the old testament saints all had visitation but the new testament saints have indwelling of the spirit


He made a blasphemous statement that the catholic [b]church teaching and doctrines are superior to the Bible [/b]as told him by the holy spirit ....You can find that maybe on this page 24

You have entered the lying phase of your argument.

Please quote where i said the bold for izonpikin.

Izonpikin:
wrong ...the scripture I quoted Jesus was with his disciples but people came to tell him that Mary and his siblings were looking for him...

So in the bible, "brother" doesnt always mean 'male sibling,' yes or no.

Amberon:
I worship God alone and that's enough for me. Continue in your idolatry. Its a free world.

Are you sure you dont worship pastor and book?

Themandator:



The holy spirit said the foundation of truth is the catholic church and not the Bible .... Really. Never heard or read this before ...The Bible is subject to your church doctrines .....woa

1Tim3:15

So your pastor who you kneel to and worship lied to you that the Bible is the pillar and foundation of truth?

Themandator:



You can have more image and try to be clever by half ......My interest was image and you brought in handkerchiefs and aprons in the picture . I stated that after Pentecost the spirit of God came down on humans and therefore human beings can't be lookng for God in idols

But they can look for God in shadows, oils, books and handkerchiefs?

Themandator:

Joshua never received or experienced Pentecost, he had the experience of visitation like all the fathers of old that God stayed with in tabernacles.

So bowing and praying before images was right before pentecost but wrong after pentecost. Where did the bible say that?

Themandator:

Elijah left Elisha with a clothing material and this found support in the new testament when aprons takes from the body of Paul were used to heal and cast our demons ....In the mouth of two or three is a thing confirmed.....Matg 18:16

Ok, so aprons can be copied from the old testament to the new testament, but images cant be copied? Welldone, teacher.

Themandator:

Images like that of Mary carrying a supposed dying Jesus that populates your church premises are demonic and not of God ... There is no spirit of God in them for people are the express image of God not idols that you pray to . This is different from your new angles of aprons and Anointing oil which you don't kneel before like you do in front of those Ghana men produced statues

Ah! I didnt know you were the Satan's Chief of Personnel. So how many of your boys (demons) did you deploy to each Marian statue...and how many to Oyedepo's picture? And at the same time, you are the custodian of the Holy Spirit, who tells him to possess handkerchiefs, oils, books and shadows, but bans him from Catholic images. Welldone teacher.

Themandator:

You only use handkerchiefs and Anointing oil ...You dont pray to them. .....I know and hope the difference is now clear.

Idols or statues you pray to but Anointing oils and aprons are used to demonstrate the power of God ...Is any sick amongst you let them call the elders of the church that they may pray for him and anoint him......Not pray to the oil as an intercessor between you and God.

There is no difference. We only use images, like the Israelites and Joshua. We dont pray to them.

Themandator:

Every image is satanic .....

Including pictures of your father and mother.

Themandator:

Bible is a collection of the word of God... It is the only guide for every true Christian......We don't kneel on it . We study it .....dont confuse it with image made out of sand and cement by mostly Ghana men who are idol worshippers themselves

Where did Jesus or the apostles tell you that? Bible was compiled by the Catholic Church in 382AD. They chose the books in it and discarded the books they didnt think were inspired. And you protestants 'kneel and pray' to it. You idol worshippers, worshipping a book compiled by the Catholic Church.

Themandator:

You are free to have more idols or statues of Mary , Joseph and a supposed jesus dot your landscape ...Na your cup of tea

You are free to worship olive oil or palm oil or shadow of peter or adeboye...or bible...or dictionary...your cup of tea.

Themandator:

I won't pursue your new angle of your church being the pillar of truth as told you by the holy spirit for I know that you have no scriptural basis for your statement but only emotions

1Tim3:15

Themandator:

We are God and children of the most high says Jesus Christ , we have the mind of Christ and more importantly, we are heirs of the kingdom and joint heirs with Christ ...Praise God


This is what you are ......Gal 4:1

Ah! You're also God who sifts the sheep from the goats? Welldone, master.

Themandator:

By the way , it is better to kneel in front of my pastor than in front of an image composed of nothing but sand , clay, cement and irons which attracts satanic agents into it ....For a pastor is a man carrying the spirit and Anointing ......He says he will give me pastors after his own heart .....For water to flow there is need for a slope ......It can't flow on a plane .....So a pastor carry's a higher grace because of his calling but no image carry's anything other satanic agents

We have seen how the 'higher grace' leads the pastors to sleep with small girls and teach contradictory doctrines...when the holy spirit gave us one doctrine. Continue.

Izonpikin:
and I have been quoting a scripture to counter your spurious claims...the scripture is as clear as day light...Jesus immediate family was joseph,mary and his half siblings...

Matt 28:10 Then Jesus said to them, “Do not be afraid. Go and tell my brothers to go to Galilee; there they will see me.”

v16 Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go.

Above is more scripture. So Mary gave birth to the 11 disciples abi?

Themandator:
You are free to continue erecting sculptures and praying to them but whatever you can't find after the establishment of the new covenant and was never practised by the disciples remains demonic inputs called religion into Christianity .

So it is demonic to have a bible, since "bible" is not mentioned anywhere.

Themandator:

Material items where used as medium for conveying the power of God to where it was needed in both the old and new testament but not for prayer or to be prayed to for those items weren't made prayer receptors but a source for the display of the power of God. ....

Joshua7:6 But Josue rent his garments, and fell flat on the ground, before the ark of the Lord, until the evening, both he and all the ancients of Israel: and they put dust upon their heads.
7:7 And Josue said: Alas, O Lord God, why wouldst thou bring this people over the river Jordan, to deliver us into the hand of the Amorrhite, and to destroy us? would God we had stayed beyond the Jordan, as we began.
7:8 My Lord God, what shall I say, seeing Israel turning their backs to their enemies?
7:9 The Chanaanites, and all the inhabitants of the land, will hear of it, and being gathered together will surround us, and cut off our name from the earth: and what wilt thou do to thy great name?

Teacher, so the above is not prayer abi?

Themandator:

Anointing oil was given to the disciples when they were paired and they returned with testimonials, so also was the apron from Paul

Ah! So after Pentecost, God's Spirit continued to possess man-made items? Wonderful turnaround!

Themandator:

but they were never altars or small god like juju men have images through which they communicate with their gods

The Ark of the covenant was exactly that. It was an altar with images like the ones juju men use.

Themandator:


Again you are free to erect even more images for all the apostles and mentioned disciples and prayer to them to help you prayer to God. As for me, Jesus said , I am the way the truth and the life and no one comes to the father except by me


Thank you

And you are free to print books and kneel and worship them, and to kneel and worship your pastors. As for me, the Holy Spirit said the (Catholic) Church is the pillar and foundation of truth, not the bible...or your childish interpretation of it.

Themandator:



Matt 12:46 -50 ...Summary ....His mother and brothers came desiring to speak to him and he was informed but his reply was : Those doing the will of my father are my brother.

The apostles were the persons he was referring to for they were the ones he called and used for his ministry . He already identified Peter as the leader of the church . Don't twist it


While he was around the apostles were called disciples but when he left they became the apostles having disciples

Aha!

You now agree that in the Bible, "brother" can mean something other than 'male sibling.'

True or false?

Themandator:




Mary was betrothed to Joseph who found out she was pregnant and was looking for ways to silently put her way then the Lord told him to take Mary as his Wife ..He did.

Jesus was born and every one in their community believed he was the father of Jesus as they asked is the not the son of Mary and the carpenter and are his brother and sister not here with us

Until Jesus Christ ministry started at the age of thirty after his baptism by John, he was doing carpentry works with Joseph and for those space of thirty years , Mary was a wife to Joseph, in the practical sense of it ."""......The secret about who Jesus was and how his pregnancy was achieved was only know to his parents otherwise the city people would have referred to Him as a bastard

Joseph was used to masks the parenthood of Jesus and it is not possible that while Mary and her husband lived , she was just seen as an altar as you are supposing that wherever the power of God fell in the old testament became a holy thing not to be touched or used ....Mary wasn't a thing but somebody's wife


If Joseph was treating Mary the way you have insinuated then he remarried because he can't have a wife and not be a proper husband but the Bible never said anything like that happened


If Joseph was treating Mary the way you have described, avoiding body contact and affections because she was overshadowed by the power of the most high and therefore locked according to you like a goddess to be adored and worship it would have been easier to locate Jesus Christ because the story would have gone out that Joseph doesn't have body contacts with his supposed wife because she has given birth to a Saviour and the lives of those little children killed in Herod desperate search for Jesus would have been avoided


Matt 18:16 says in the mouth of two or three is a thing confirmed ......The scripture have got more than one confirmation that Mary had other children. Technicalities of what brother means in the Greek language won't change that.

Matt 28:10 Then Jesus said to them, “Do not be afraid. Go and tell my brothers to go to Galilee; there they will see me.”

v16 Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go.

So teacher, Mary gave birth to the eleven disciples/brothers of Jesus abi?

Themandator:



Our discourse is not about positioning while praying for God answers prays so long as the heart is in a thanksgiving and worship position.

Even in front of a statue e.g Joshua 7:6. No?

Themandator:


Jesus never bowed to any mortar and sand, the works of men hands , while praying nor did any of the disciples did.

But he knelt before a book and pastor abi?

Themandator:



Once Pentecost came believers became the temple of God....... No cement and sand sculpture is the swelling place of the spirit of God ......If any of such is purported to shed tears of blood it is because it harbours demons in it who infrequently does such to keep his worshippers loyal

The Spirit of God dwelled in man-made object before Pentecost...but at Pentecost the Spirit of God left man-made objects for demons. But the Spirit of God still dwelt in Peter's shadow (Acts 5:15) and Paul's handkerchief (Acts 19:12). So the Spirit of God only gave up sculptures to the demons but retained shadows, handkerchiefs...and anointing oils.

Teacher, that is what you're telling us abi?

Nobody is mentioning the fact that women are more guilty of domestic violence than men.

And that women who lay their hands on other people are beasts.

This is a reply to this thread https://www.nairaland.com/3819386/photo-obama-pope-francis-vs and all those children that eat anything fed to them by the liberal media and their cronies.

Now that you see the Pope smiling with Trump and frowning with Obama, what next?

Smeago007:



Deceive yourself all you want
Joshua didn't bow nor worship
Like you do to Mary sculptures

The earlier you flee from pecan worship
The better

Gentile nation!!!
That's why the Jews don't let in Christians in their synagogue till today

Pegan doctrine es and worship
Has dominated the church

Catholic stands as the real evil

Seems you didnt read my question:

So Joshua prostrated before images...but since it was a sorrowful moment, it is ok.

But if Joshua had done it in a happy moment, it would have been idolatry?

I'm trying to measure your reasoning faculty.

Smeago007:


Obviously its not
Read the verse properly

It was an aggrieved moment.
Sorrow,dispair etc

So Joshua prostrated before images...but since it was a sorrowful moment, it is ok.

But if Joshua had done it in a happy moment, it would have been idolatry?

I'm trying to measure your reasoning faculty.

bayelsaowei:
in effect you are saying those souls were literally under an altar with their necks and bodies slaughtered...

It's not me that wrote Revelation. It's the Holy Spirit that wrote it through John.

And he tells us that saints prayed about earthly events.

How do you want to twist that?

Ubenedictus:
should I also depict Joshua prostrating before a golden Cherubim so u can accuse him of idolatry too.


italo where that PIC

Joshua 7:6

Bayelsaowei, are these also idol worship?

Mpanyi:
Italo and Ubenedictus, I doff for you guys and others like you

Thank you. It is by God's grace.

olabode100:
1john 3:2 says when Jesus Christ appear, and Jesus has not yet appeared....

He has shown himself to those who died holy already. So they are already like Christ, for they see him as he really is (1John3:2).