₦airaland Forum

hertz9te:
answer;if segun arinze tells you that he is the son of God ,,,, ,,would you believe......

no you will tell him he is an adopted son of God

Chai!! Loool

I don laff tire. What does Segun Arinze have to do with this.

CaptainJune:
This is why I told some dude like that who is strongly of the opinion that the church of Christ is the Catholic church that he should forget whatever he has been taught and read the Scripture from an individual perspective. I mean, is there any algebra or calculus in the gospel of Jesus Christ which makes it difficult for them to understand? Why are they so blind as if they never read the Bible?

Guess what the dude told me. He said the Bible can never be read from an individual lens. That means whatever he knows about the Bible is what the leaders tell him, whether wrong or right. No confirmation of their leaders' teachings with the Word of God, the final authority on any issue related to serving God. They are just comfortable being blind.

Well, even God Himself said His people perish for lack of knowledge

And also

"Because of lack of knowledge My people have gone again into captivity."

There will always be the blind and gullible ones till Jesus comes.

Nowadays what we have is great swelling words of doctrinal errors coming from altars across the globe.

The problem we have is that most people don't study the bible for themselves with the help of the Holy Spirit.

All I will say is people should do well to watch their souls cause eternity is forever and there's no second chance.

God will share His glory with no one.

It's not hard to stick to scriptures alone. It's not hard.

Gullibility at its peak.

henribj:
hmm... if truly that is your position, then I would say you lack faith(#justsaying)
so we should not bow down to the statures we have today because we do not feel the presence of God in them or because there is no mercy seat beside them or because we have not heard God speak from them?
well, in that case we should not bother being Christians, we should throw our bibles away, since God has not spoken to some of us directly and we should not believe what is written in the bible or take it to heart, we should only see it as a best seller novel(#justsaying).

We are in a new dispensation.

The NT never said we should bow down to statues or have faith for statues.

The question is, what do you gain from bowing down to statues?

And BTW, If you study the matter, you will find that the golden cherubim on the Ark were normally located in what was called the holy of holies, the innermost apartment of the Hebrew Sanctuary. Because they covered the lid of the Ark, known as the mercy seat, these were known as "covering cherubim". Only the Jewish high priest was ever allowed to enter this room, and then only on one day of each year, the Day of Atonement. Search the scriptures and you will find that the high priest was never instructed to bow down to these statues of cherubim or to pray to the angels in heaven that they represented.

henribj:
uhm OP if I may ask o
when the Ark of the Covenant was being moved around when the Israelite's left Egypt, where they not bowing to it?

They bowed down to it because the tangible presence of the Lord was upon the Mercy Seat. It was so tangible, that someone died touching it. And God spoke to Moses from the Mercy Seat. So they were bowing down to God and not the ark itself.

The statues we have today has no mercy seat and has no Presence.

They think its not wrong cause they grew up that way.

27kg

Because the devil and his team don't have to bother putting much effort in attacking people that are already In his kingdom. He concentrates his forces more on the people outside his kingdom. And even more on those that walk in their callings to cause damage to his kingdom. And the devil would rather have his followers have all the wealth so that Christians could look back and stumble. And also because he knows if Christians have the wealth, they would use it to support God's kingdom.

And why is it most Christians don't prosper?

1. Because majority are ignorant of who they are in Christ and what they have in Christ.

2. Because they are not willing to pay the price of giving themselves up to God. Mt 6:33.

3. Because they are busy killing themselves with unecssary religous practices that God says makes His words of no effect and as a result don't know how to make the Word of God work for them. They think everything works by prayer.

Papist:
Ok so whats your point? Let us ignore the early church and follow the protestants 1500 years later?

We are not talking denomination here, we are talking following the scriptures.

The early church followed scriptures and not denominations.

menesheh:
Lol


Funny but there is no evidence that such will happen

And there's also no evidence that it will not happen.

Papist:
The books that you people call apocrypha are actually called Deutro canonical books.

Still the same point I am making.

Deuterocanonical books is a term used since the 16th century in the Catholic Church and Eastern Christianity to describe certain books and passages of the Christian Old Testament that are not part of the current Hebrew Bible. The term is used in contrast to the protocanonical books, which are contained in the Hebrew Bible. This distinction had previously contributed to debate in the early Church about whether they should be classified as canonical texts. The term is used as a matter of convenience by the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church and other Churches to refer to books of their Old Testament which are not part of the Masoretic Text.

The deuterocanonical books are considered canonical by Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, and the Church of the East, but are considered non-canonical by most Protestants.

The original usage of the term distinguished these scriptures both from those considered non-canonical and from those considered protocanonical. However, some editions of the Bible include text from both deuterocanonical and non-canonical scriptures in a single section designated "Apocrypha". This arrangement can lead to conflation between the otherwise distinct terms "deuterocanonical" and "apocryphal".

italo:
I have quoted the Bayblonian and Jerusalem Talmud to prove that it is a heretical/satanic book...

...Yet you insist the Bible came from it.

No part of the Bible was taken from that satanic book. If you insist, tell us the parts of the bible and Talmud that are the same.

You're just associating the bible with evil because you're an enemy of truth.

Since you think you could run away from your heretical poverty teaching. Now lets go back to my original statement:

BTW, the bible comes from the dead sea scrolls or the Jewish Talmud.

So we have the Dead sea scrolls, the Talmud and the Apochrypha.

In all those documents, where was it written we can pray to Mary? But someone somewhere woke up one morning and said 'Lets pray to Mary to help us talk to Jesus so he can persuade God for us". And you sef follow with no scriptural backing.

Now I made mention of three documents up the that were used in assembling the bible.

Dead sea scrolls, Talmud and Apocrypha.

Now because you felt you were losing out on an argument, you decided to take one part of a statement out of context. Now lets look at some excerpts.

1. The Dead Sea Scrolls refer to ancient Hebrew scrolls that were accidentally discovered in 1947 by a Bedouin boy in Israel's Judean Desert. On display today in the Shrine of the Book at the Israel Museum in Jerusalem, the scrolls have kindled popular enthusiasm as well as serious scholarly interest over the past half century as they reveal exciting history from the Second Temple period (520 B.C.E.-70 C.E.) - a time of crucial developments in the crystallization of the monotheistic religions.

2. The Biblical apocrypha (from the Greek ἀπόκρυφος, apókruphos, meaning "hidden" denotes the collection of ancient books found, in some editions of the Bible, in a separate section between the Old and New Testaments[1] or as an appendix after the New Testament.

3. The Oral Law -Talmud & Mishna: The Oral Law is a legal commentary on the Torah, explaining how its commandments are to be carried out. Common sense suggests that some sort of oral tradition was always needed to accompany the Written Law, because the Torah alone, even with its 613 commandments, is an insufficient guide to Jewish life. For example, the fourth of the Ten Commandments, ordains, "Remember the Sabbath day to make it holy" (Exodus 20:. From the Sabbath's inclusion in the Ten Commandments, it is clear that the Torah regards it as an important holiday. Yet when one looks for the specific biblical laws regulating how to observe the day, one finds only injunctions against lighting a fire, going away from one's dwelling, cutting down a tree, plowing and harvesting. Would merely refraining from these few activities fulfill the biblical command to make the Sabbath holy? Indeed, the Sabbath rituals that are most commonly associated with holiness-lighting of candles, reciting the kiddush, and the reading of the weekly Torah portion are found not in the Torah, but in the Oral Law.

Without an oral tradition, some of the Torah's laws would be incomprehensible....

Now lets look at all these in the light of our discussion that brought this out.

You said you believe in praying to Mary...

I said show me scriptures..

You couldn't..

And I made a statement to infer that, even the documents that was used to assemble the bible (i.e whether heretical or not o), none of them has any command or teaching on praying to Mary. (maybe I should have put it that way for your brain to comprehend-but keep reading....)

So you went and took some parts out of a certain Talmud and tried to prove it was heretical. So you, took one part and left the others.

Now, you're a catholic, and you guys have a bible that contains scriptures gotten from the Apocrypha which I also mentioned.

False Teachings
The Apocrypha contains a number of false teachings (see: Errors in the Apocrypha). (To check the following references, see http://www.newadvent.org/bible).

The command to use magic (Tobit 6:5-7).
Forgiveness of sins by almsgiving (Tobit 4:11, 12:9).
Offering of money for the sins of the dead (2 Maccabees 12:43-45).

The fifteen Apocryphal books which the Roman Catholics have included in their Bibles, ... They teach doctrines, which are false and foster practices

The apocrypha (απόκρυφα means "hidden" is a set of books written ... of the dead, and blatant incorrect historical facts--it is full of false and unbiblical teachings.

Now get my point. If you don't want me releasing more heretical stuffs you believe in.

In my statement you quoted. Even though I knew the Apocrypha contained heresies I still chose to put it there with the Talmud and Dead sea scrolls.

Why?

Because not every part of the Apocrypha and not every part of the Talmud is considered heretical. All these documents were used to help in assemblage of the bible.

Jude in Jude 1:14-15 is seen quoting a scripture from the book of Enoch which is an Apocrypha. But the book of Enoch was not authorized to be put in the bible. Why? Because not all of it was considered authoritative.

So you took one part of the Talmud that was considered heretical and left the others that have been considered authoritative.

Where do you think they crosschecked the genealogies that was authorized to be put in the O.T ? Your primary school text book?

You say the Talmud is heretical then all the Apocryphal scriptures in your catholic bibles too are heretical. So why be a hypocrite.

There are two editions of the Talmud; one was composed by Babylonian Jews and one by Jews who lived in ancient Jerusalem. Generally a citation from the Talmud refers to the Babylonian version, which is considered authoritative. The Jerusalem Talmud is not generally taught in even the most Orthodox Jewish schools today, though advanced Talmud scholars sometimes study it.
— Anti-Defamation League (12)

You see how this write up is long. That's why I didn't want to answer in the first place, but your friends motivated me.

I wan sleep abeg.

BTW, dmandy has been hiding in the dark. Watching and looking for someone all this while to take me down and thought he had seen an opportunity.

SMH.

dmandy:
Looks like that line made your day.

I wanted to just keep my cool before.

Hold on! I am coming.

Kamxin:
in a cul-de-sac ?
gratias italo! ruthless & relentless.

For real??

Dude, you just put Italo in trouble once again.

italo:
I have quoted the Bayblonian and Jerusalem Talmud to prove that it is a heretical/satanic book...

...Yet you insist the Bible came from it.

No part of the Bible was taken from that satanic book. If you insist, tell us the parts of the bible and Talmud that are the same.

You're just associating the bible with evil because you're an enemy of truth.

SMH.

Well, I saw in a video documentary on discovery channel not too long ago of some scientists that went down thousands of feet deep in to the ocean of Greenland and saw a Mermaid looking creature.

I saw the video myself, it wasn't doctored.

italo:


Oh! So the Talmud you claim the bible came from is the Bayblonian Talmud!

Let's see what the Bayblonian Talmud has to say:

[b]
Baba Necia 114, 6:"The Jews are human beings, but the nations of the world are not human beings but beasts."

Nidrasch Talpioth, p. 225-L:"Jehovah created the non-Jew in human form so that the Jew would not have to be served by beasts. The non-Jew is consequently an animal in human form, and condemned to serve the Jew day and night.

Aboda Sarah 37a:"A Gentile girl who is three years old can be violated."

Gad. Shas. 2:2:"A Jew may violate but not marry a non-Jewish girl


Kethuboth 11b. "When a grown-up man has intercourse with a little girl it is nothing."

Baba Mezia 59b. A rabbi debates God and defeats Him. God admits the rabbi won the debate.

Menahoth 43b-44a. A Jewish man is obligated to say the following prayer every day: Thank you God for not making me a gentile, a woman or a slave.

Soferim 15, Rule 10. This is the saying of Rabbi Simon ben Yohai: Tob shebe goyyim harog ("Even the best of the gentiles should all be killed".

Yebamoth 98a. All gentile children are animals.

Gittin 57a. Says Jesus is in hell, being boiled in "hot excrement." [/b]

Now that you have run out of 'Talmuds' to lie about, can you finally own up to your lie?

Or do you still stand by your statement that the bible is from the heretical and satanic Babylonians Talmud?

Seems you don't understand English.

Is it the whole Talmud that was used in writing the O.T? Is it all the dead sea scrolls that was used in writing the Bible? What is the meaning of canonization? Why are some books of the apocrypha not used with the 66 books of the bible?

When you've understood those, then come back.

BTW, I know you're trying so hard to get back at me, don't worry you can't. I don't even really have your time right now. You're the one that's just disturbing me with your trial and errors.

italo:
In the Jerusalem Talmud Taanith-65b, a certain Rabbi Abahu is quoted as saying in reference to christian claims of deity of Jesus: "Rabbi Abahu said, If a man says, I am god, he lies; if he says, I am son of God he shall regret his utterances…"

Seeing that the Jerusalem Talmud is just as heretical, which other Talmud will you now claim the bible came from?

So can you tell us where the Genealogy of names in the O.T come from?

And next time, read what I write very clearly. I said the Talmud you called heretical was the Jerusalem one but the one used by the Jews is the Bayblonian Talmud.

Optimall:
Italo is a Catholic..
Check his profile.
All his posts are filled with Catholicism.

Quote me wrong!

italo talks like a JW sometimes.

PastorOsamede:
How many preachers are in fact living in affluence? Do you know how many pastors there are all over the world? You pick up on a tiny few and run around screaming and labelling. Do you know that many pastors basically run their church with what they earn from secular jobs? What about those that are posted to villages?

By the way, how many souls have you won? How many times do you deny yourself food for days because you are groaning in prayer for people who are in their homes eating? How many times do you deny yourself sleep to pray for others through the night? How many times do you leave the comfort of your room and go to church to pass the night praying for others?

Critics who do nothing in GOD'S house! Go to bed!

Tell them Sir,

They don't know the sacrifices those pastors have made, but instead they just sit down at home watch TV, go to cinemas and think they can criticize pastors because God has blessed those pastors with money.

Hypocrites abound.

Stephansmily:
Neva joke with this...ok?

Well, since its sacred to you no problemo.

But no one should come twist scriptures in my face. Like some folks up there.

Stephansmily:
Lol..ah aint answerinq dat..

You need to go for confession , she won't be happy.

Stephansmily:
In this case..yes. U are the one feeling guilty of sin, so the priest is more righteous at this point.

Priests sin too..they also confess.


We are all known as 'The Faithful'...so its just the cries of the faithful..not millions..we are one

So does Mary approve of your signature?

Stephansmily:
God bless u too

No, not the pope, a priest. Derz only one pope, and he stays in Rome, so we confess to priests instead.

We Catholics
believe in the prayer of intercession, that's praying on behalf of one another. Its just like asking God to forgive ur brother for his sin..here, u're the righteous one,the one without guilt, so, u praying for him gives him a better chance in the sight of God.

See this scripture-James 5:16 “Therefore, confess your sins to one another,
and pray for one another so that you may be healed. The
effective prayer of a righteous man can accomplish much.”

Check the last sentence above...

Catholics reach out to Mother Mary to intercede for them, so also do we go to a priest to confess, the priest in turn, prays to God for us..

So how does Mary answer the millions of prayers coming to her at the same time?

And by that last sentence, do you mean the Priest is more righteous than you?

Stephansmily:
Lol, whoeva sed dat is wrong. The pope is infallible, bt the pope neva forgives sin.
The scripture u quoted refers to those who wronged u..and not about humans forgiving sin. Remember the Lord's prayer..'Forgive us our sins, as we forgive those who tresspass against us'

My sister God bless you for saying that was talking of offences. I tire for all those folks up there saying what they don't understand.

But anyway, can you tell me why you just don't go to God directly for your own confession, why go to a pope?

Papist and italo come and see your fellow who shed the light on the scripture you guys quoted and learn.

UncleSnr:
See question...

One promised his people (male especially) Everlasting Hard-On #heavy_orgy.

The other promised his people everlasting ability to sing halleluyah, fly around and wear crown with white robe.

One promised everlasting wisdom (ability to see light and commune with forces) to his followers.

And so many more promises from various Gods.

Aren't they different?

Lol@ heavy o.rgy.

Okay, that's what they told you.

Anyways, that's why I gave the last point above. After all, this write-up was based on just trying to reason out things logically.

Stephansmily:
Lol..who said priests forgive sin They never! You only confess to them, they'll relay ur confession to God..in other words they'll pray for forgiveness on ur behalf. They'll give u penance which u have to do..in other words 'prayin for urself'..Priests never ever forgive sins, only God does.

You just scattered your whole doctrines that I have seen your fellows teaching here.

They used this scripture time and time again:

John 20:23 "If you forgive the sins of any, their sins have been forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they have been retained."

And one of them said the Pope is another Christ who can forgive sins based on this scripture.

So what is happening here?

UncleSnr:
The question is Which of the God do you attribute all these to? All God's behave differently.

How do they behave differently?

icey20:
Nice write up, but come to think of it from another angle, everything u've explained is still based on science, how do u know the size of the earth? How do u know about the universe and DNA? Its all based on science, if scientists didn't tell us these things we still wouldn't know, how do scientists carry out operations on humans? they operate on the eye,kidney,nose etc... Which means they understand these things perfectly, we believe in their researches but we don't believe them when they tell us that God doesn't exist.... How does that even work?

No sane person will ever say the bible contradicts science.

And beside there are many scientists who beleive in God. So even if one group says there's no God and another says there is, there's no basis of someone just jumping to side the unbelieving ones and jump to a conclusion that there is no God.

When most people won't read their bibles for themselves but choose only to listen to someone that calls himself a man of God why won't it be easy for them to be deceived.

How was his wife action of sleeping in church for 3 days suppose to prevent the death of his wife and their child