₦airaland Forum

Ubenedictus:
I just came from the thread that advises that the Rccg G.O should settle the issue of succession before death. In one of your response there you made reference to a "babylon system of the world" and gave the impression that churches are part of it.


My question is simply... What does that mean?

Go and prayerfully read "The Harlot Church System " by Charles E. Newbold, Jr and let the Holy Spirit open your understanding.

Hint: Google is your "friend".

torchwave:
Some topics in nairaland never die no matter how many times you bury them.

To tithe or not to tithe...this two positions will never lack supporters or proponents and opponents...till Christ returns.

If you're led, through personal conviction in the Word, to tithe, let nothing stop you.

If you feel your tithe enriches your pastor to your disadvantage, you can keep it.

There's one thing I'm sure of, I shall never be found among the group of non-tithers.

Why risk eternal damnation on the ground of tithing? A paltry reason to be disqualified from attaining paradise after death.

In case you don't know, non-tithers are thieves, literally....and no thief shall enter the kingdom of God.

The disadvantages of non-tithing far outweigh that of tithing.

Think about that.

By your submission, you practically redefined John 3:16 to

“For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him pays "Him" 10% of their monthly income through his earthly representatives should not perish, but have everlasting life.

How does that sound to you?

God bless you Goshen for all the efforts you took to put all these together.

You are setting the proper foundation for many young Christians to read and understand the scriptures themselves to avoid being derailed by the doctrines of men.

You stuck to your plans despite efforts by some with their "holier than thou'attitude to derail the thread.

Thumbs up. Keep it up.

Goshen360: Hey, whatz up son (of God)? ^^^ Welcome on board.

Thanks I'm fine. Been quite busy with the things of the world; work.

Looking forward to your exposition.

Goshen360: Following a great injustice, twisting, divisions, abuse and multiple scripture interpretations, I decided to start a this Bible Study COURSE that will tend towards raising Bible teachers and upholding the truth\integrity of God's word. It doesn't necessarily mean we're all called into ministry but we're all called to know the truth and the truth sets us free. The motive of this course is to encourage all believers\Christians that will follow this thread to examine\study the scriptures for themselves. We\you might not know too much of God's word but whatever little is known, it must be well known and accurate.

I must make it plain and simple - The quest and journey towards "studying to show yourself approved into God" is not an easy task. It involves a careful examination of our English text in its original language and context. Too many Christians have abandoned their 'first love' and the result is the raise of false\erroneous teachings. This is because we have left the task we ought to undertake primarily by ourselves to others. Yes, it is an eternal truth that God had given teachers to the Church. It is also true that what teachers teach must be carefully examined which is the primary duty of every Christian.

This course will 'probably' take us till the end of this month considering questions and answer and\or reasoning together as learners together. I will post each day until we finish the course. I will also avoid too long post so it won't get boring to as many as will want to participate. I'll like you to invite as many as possible of your friends and family to this course. They might not necessarily be a registered member; they can follow this course and benefit but only need be a registered member to post comments. The time has come for every Christian to carefully examine what is taught in their various place of worship and stand for the truth.

New Living Translation (©2007)
And the people of Berea were more open-minded than those in Thessalonica, and they listened eagerly to Paul's message. They searched the Scriptures day after day to see if Paul and Silas were teaching the truth. Acts 17:11

This course is an Internet based teaching of a ministry. I've edited where names of some denominations were mentioned so we don't offend any denomination but all points taught in the course had been fully considered and carefully examined. At the very end of this course, I'll reference the ministry and their web link to give honour to whom it is due.

Welcome on board!

God bless you for using your gift to teach and edify the body of Christ. Hope we wont be paying tithes.

Signed up.

debosky: Do I? Why reference a thread talking about righteousness required to enter heaven and link it to tithes? What is the obvious idea that will be comprehended from such a linkage?

I remember you asking for a 'concise' response from Goshen - what is the concise meaning that people will take from your post?

I don't understand why people take image123 seriously. To me he acts and sounds like a comedian making jokes using passages from the Bible.

Image123: reminds me of my little female shabbath friend. Hope you're not the one, the grammar also rings a church bell.

It's ungentlemanly to throw pot shots at someone because of a little grammatical error. This can happen to anyone especially when you're using a phone with a predictive keyboard. I noticed it earlier but decided against editing it because it doesn't change who I am and what I believe in.


If your job is to highlight grammatical errors in nairaland, pls
open a new thread. Meanwhile let's stick to the main topic.

Image123: reminds me of my little female shabbath friend. Hope you're not the one, the grammar also rings a church bell.

Sorry to disappoint you. Am not the one, Mr multi-userID. How is potentpraise? Pls let him know we're missing him.

Bookmark: C'est la seule chose que vous savez comment dire. Pourquoi ne pas aller de l'avant et de citer ces passages de la Bible mal.

Ou dites-vous que Paul a écrit aux Galates écrit de la fosse de l'enfer?

Les gens que vous appelez le savez maintenant la vérité.

Si vous voulez les récupérer, de leur donner des réponses à ces deux choses. Dites-leur:

1 où les convertis chrétiens sont commandés de payer la dîme.

2 pourquoi ils devraient rester sous la malédiction de la loi et tomber la faveur imméritée de Christ.

Gal 5:04
Vous êtes devenu séparé de Christ, vous qui tentent de se justifier par la loi; vous êtes déchus de la grâce.

Aussi Gal 3:10
Car tous ceux qui sont des oeuvres de la loi sont sous la malédiction, car il est écrit: «Maudit est quiconque ne demeure pas dans toutes les choses qui sont écrites dans le livre de la loi de le faire."

S'il vous plaît répondre à ces choses, y compris les citations et ne pas les ignorer. Sauf si vous pensez qu'ils sont de la fosse de l'enfer. Aussi s'il vous plaît ne pas utiliser hors de propos, hors contexte de citations de la Bible afin de ne pas ouvrir une parenthèse. Apprends-nous.

christemmbassey: s'il vous plaît nous attendons.

It appears as if he doesn't understand English anymore. No worries. I have translated his post to French so that he wouldn't have any difficult responding.

Bidam: KEEP QUIET..NA MY BOOK WEY I GO SOON LAUNCH NA IM I DEY QUOTE ALL THOSE THINGS FROM..U NO SEE SAY I NO ANSWER UNA..UNA NO LIKE D REVELATIONS ABI?

Joke of the day.

mysticgal: you stand a chance of losing your life.read malachi chapter 3,btw are you a real born again or a born against.

This is a new one. Please, do you mind explaining this scripturally?

9icetoo: That which paul was talking about i believe was not TITHE! He was talking about offerings. Offerings you give out of free will. He wasnt talking about any ten percent bruhaha. Please. Be properly guided.

Thank God you also noticed this my brother. This is what they have been doing all along, twisting and quoting unrelated passages to keep deceiving God's children.

St.Ola:
Quoting a post by Kbdrim on a similar thread.

The Catholic Church knows it's own history. Here is how tithing got back into the Church after being absent for nearly five centuries:

“As the Church expanded and various institutions arose, it became necessary to make laws which would ensure the proper and permanent support of the clergy. The payment of tithes was adopted from the Old Law… The earliest positive legislation on the subject seems to be contained in the letter of the bishops assembled at Tours in 567 and the [canons] of the Council of Macon in 585.”—The Catholic Encyclopaedia.

To add to your historical perspective on tithing from non-biblical sources, see the following excerpts from Encycopaedia Americana and Encyclopedia Britannica respectively.

Encycopaedia Americana states;

“It was not practised in the early Christian church but gradually became common (in the Roman Catholic church in western Europe) by the 6th Century. The Council of Tours in 567 and the 2nd Council of Macon in 585 advocated tithing. Made obligatory by civil law in the Carolingian empire in 765 and in England in the 10th Century “


Encyclopedia Britannica (1963, volume 22, page 253, ‘TITHES’) also declares the following

“Tithes in Christendom—The earliest authentic example of anything like a law of the State enforcing payment appears to occur in the capitularies [Ecclesiastes] of Charlemagne at the end of the 8th or beginning of the 9th century. Tithes were, by that enactment, to be applied to the maintenance of the bishop, clergy, the poor, and the fabric of the church. In the course of time the principle of payment of tithes was extended far beyond its original intention. Thus, they became transferable to laymen and saleable like ordinary property, despite the injunctions of the third Lateran Council; and they became payable out of sources of income [not just farming and herding, but other trades and occupations and salaries paid in the form of money] not originally tithable.”

BARRISTERS: @ Goshen and Frosbel, cant you see that OLAADEGBU is just posting cartoons and have diverted from the real issue? he only needs you to build his tread, my advise is that you should abandon the tread for Goodness sake! NOW!

I completely agree with you.

I think we have said all that needs to be said. Ample proof from scriptures have been tendered to show that tithing is not meant for Christians.

Anyone who reads this thread from beginning to end will come to the realisation of the truth. Thanks to Goshen360, Frosbel, Christemmbassy, Pastor Kun and the rest of the crew.

End of.

Bidam: white washed stones..full of dead men bones...christianity has now becomes child's play abi? claim they know scriptures but there IS NO PRACTICAL EXPERIENCE TO BACK UP their claims so others can be edified..i pity this generation.

You should rather pity your bank balance. It's the only thing that will suffer here.

Bidam: LIAR....show me where i did that or forever be silent in this forum.

Mr 10%, pls don't call me a liar again. OK. The fact that we meet here to discuss issues doesn't give you the right to start calling me names. You wont dare to say that to me in person. So relax.

The issue of tithe or no tithe is not a do or die affair at least to me. I know this must have affected your bank balance and as you seem to be the most desperate of the lot.

Am not in a position to reread all the posts just to identify who wrote what. The thoughts of rereading your out of points posts makes me cringe.

christemmbassey: on the issue of twisting the scriptures my brother Bidam is innoscent, he never twisted any scripture, all he does is, google all the key words that have something to do with 'pay your tithes' achieve them, copy and paste them without checking that's why most times his posts never had conection with quoted posts. That explains why if you ask him to comment on deut 14:22, you will see, -can a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me......MAL 3. So my bros no de twist but de copy and paste articles with twisted scriptures. @ bidam, no mind bros Fros o, truths don too plenty inside im belle.

The other day, he posted Psalm 23 to justify tithing.

Nothing person no go hear from these bible twisters.

I Just read the quoted portion below in another thread aptly titled 'What Jesus taught Kenneth Hagin About Authority'. Please pay particular attention to the bolded portion.

I told the Lord I didn't care how many times I saw Him in visions—He would have to prove this to me by at least three Scriptures out of the New Testament (because we're not living under the Old Covenant, we're living under the New). Jesus smiled sweetly and said He would give me four. I said, "I've read through the New Testament 150 times, and many portions of it more than that. If that is in there, I don't know it!"

Jesus replied, "Son, there is a lot in there you don't know." He continued, "Not one single time in the New Testament is the Church ever told to pray that God the Father or Jesus would do anything against the devil. In fact, to do so is to waste your time. The believer is told to do something about the devil. The reason is because you have the authority to do it. The Church is not to pray to God the Father about the devil; the Church is to exercise the authority that belongs to it.

If Hagin was bold enough to ask Jesus for 3 Scriptures out of the New Testament as proof to support what He was trying to pass across to Hagin, I think I should be bold enough to ask the tithe proponent just one question;
[size=14pt]
Please show me 1, just ONE scripture in the New Testament where Christians were asked to tithe.[/size]

Candour: God bless you my brother for taking your time to go through the thread and arriving @ your conclusion.

You are not wrong child of God.The levites are no more and even if we have to adopt the law of moses,the equivalent of priests today would be pastors and equivalent of levites would be ushers,choir,sanctuary keepers,secretaries,children teachers,cleaners in the church.Numbers 18:25-26 you quoted tells us the levites and NOT the priests collect the Tithes.The levites only give 10% of the tithes they receive to the priests.

The Mal 3:8-10 tithe collectors and payers quote was actually talking to levites and priests.start reading from Mal 1:6 to get all the story

If only Christians would realise that the Tithing they practice today is a horribly corrupted version of the one Moses gave the children of isreal.

God bless you once again

I think the way this has been adopted in some churches is that satellite churches represent the levites while the HQ represent the priest where all affiliated churches are expected to in turn pay their tithes to.

Proponents of tithing have blatantly refused for years to provide a single bible verse to support their argument that Christians were mandated to tithe. I refused to be drawn into this tithing debate because Jesus said that there were more important matters to attend to. However, I do decide to chip in my 2 cents now and then because of the need to expose the doctrines of men.

Did Paul and the Apostles in all their epistles deliberately ignore the word tithing? Methinks it was completely ignored as it wasn't a requirement for Christians. Those who go about threatening and calling others all sort of names despite showing verifying proof from scripture that tithing is an obsolete practice for Christians are direct beneficiaries of this very practice.

I advice believers to please read their bibles and to verify from scriptures whatever any man, pastor or not tells them. Meditate on these words and let the Spirit of truth lead you;

2 Peter 2:3

New International Version (NIV)

3 In their greed these teachers will exploit you with fabricated stories. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.

Remain blessed and delivered from the twisted gospel of men.

OLAADEGBU: You must have a very dry sense of humour.

And you have zero sense of humor. Please, stick to preaching tithes and offering. We would always have the uninformed among us.

Goshen360: This is one thing I don't like about you when you're been asked to explain scriptures you took out of context. How do you mean he should yank out the pages of the synoptic gospel? Because he doesn't agree with you? You are the very one guilty of 'PRIVATE INTERPRETATION' here and no scripture is of private interpretation.

Olaadegbu is the most arrogant of the whole bunch. This is the attitude of someone who calls himself a pastor. This is completely unchristlike. SMH

christemmbassey: pls ask bro Ola where CHRISTIANS are commanded to pay tith. Thanks.

My bros, I don ask tire den still no gree show us.

If you can ask a simple question in a public forum and these guys have arrogantly refused to provide any answer whilst forcing their belief down our throats, I wonder what they would do if one is bold enough to ask them these questions in their places of worship.

We probably need to start applauding these tithing proponents for their marketing ingenuity. If half of the efforts used in marketing tithing is utilised in preaching the true gospel, majority of the islamists in northern Nigeria would have been converted to Christianity.

Bidam: "Come now, and let us REASON together" says the Lord,"though your sins(in neglecting to pay tithes to me) are as scarlet, they will be white as snow(I am ready to forgive you if you repent), though they are red like crimson. They will be like wool.(isaiah1:.
We REASON together with God on the PLATFORM OF HIS WORD....since levi payed tithes in Abraham and the scriptures cannot be broken(John 10:35). We pay tithes to Jesus(the High priest in order of melchizedek) who was before Abraham(john 8:58). Abraham's tithing was a COPY/SHADOW.Abraham's obedience to offer Isaac as a sacrifice was also a COPY/SHADOW. Jesus offered himself(Original). We are in Christ and we are to offer ourselves as LIVING SACRIFICE unto God(ORIGINAL). which is our REASONABLE service(rom 12:1).
Another scripture about reasoning(read 1 thess5:21)..ayam not misinterpreting the scriptures bro...am just telling you what the Holy Ghost taught me comparing scriptures with scriptures..stay blessed.

Nice try buddy. Don't need to pick holes in your argument. Many thanks for your efforts and the bandwidth expended in the process but am still not convinced.

I have seen various spurious reasons given to show where Christians were asked to tithe but this takes the cake.

OLAADEGBU: Thou shall laugh.

... to the bank at the expense of the uninformed.

There you go, completed it for you.

Bidam: what intentions do you think paul had when he wrote Heb 7:5; 9-10? The sons of Levi received the office of the priesthood and were commanded to take tithes of the Jewish people(v.5) yet, levi(the tithe-receiver) paid tithes in Abraham proving that melchizedek is the better..since you already agree Jesus is our high priest in order of melchizedek and is right now sitting at the right hand of God...shouldn't it stand to reason that paul meant we should pay our tithes to our local assembly/household of God/body of Christ?

Are you trying to reason what Paul meant by your own personal interpretation? This is the problem with tithing proponents. They add their own meaning to the word of God and interpret it to satisfy their carnal mind.

God warned several times in the scriptures (knowing what the sons of men are capable of doing) that we should not add or subtract from His word.

Deuteronomy 4:2
Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

Deuteronomy 12:32
What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.

Proverbs 30:5-6
5 Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. 6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.

Ecclesiastes 3:14
I know that, whatsoever God doeth, it shall be for ever: nothing can be put to it, nor any thing taken from it: and God doeth it, that men should fear before him.

In view of the above, could you please show us from the scripture without adding or removing anything from it or giving your own warped interpretation, where it was stated that Christians should tithe or where the type of tithing as practiced in the churches today was instituted in the early church.

^^^
You are just perambulating without actually making any sense from your post. We are waiting for potentpraise to expatiate on the rubbish you wrote.

Mr cherry Picker, took you a while to reply. Did you pass it to your senior pastor to do it for you? I asked you a very simple question and you took days to produce a poor response and failed terribly to give a simple answer.

Image123: Where do you stand really, why do you halt between two opinions? You said/implied tithe is doctrine of men. now you are agreeing it is a biblical principle.

Are you trying to confuse yourself here or is it an issue of comprehension.
I want to reiterate myself to make this clearer. Tithing is a biblical principle in the law of Moses. It becomes a doctrine of men when that same law is radically modified and presented as mandatory to Christians.

Image123: Are you not aware that i am a Jew and a child of Abraham?

You are not a Jew period. Don't quote any verse to deceive yourself. This is clearly symbolic as Paul was talking about being a Jew in the heart.
One who is circumcised in the spirit does not live a double life in Nairaland. We raised certain questions about your alter ego, potentpraise and since then we haven't heard from him. This speak volumes about your character, what your motives really are and the extent you are willing to play dirty inorder to continue to keep people in bondage.

Image123: I need to advice you. Always pray to God to give you understanding instead of trying to fight a Bible passage with another.

I don't need advice from you or your ilk; those who peddle the word of God for profit by using the old law to gain legitimacy.

Image123: i've just been here having fun on this thread, you are one of those trying to spill blood here.

So trying to show biblically that tithing is not a law for Christians amounts to spilling blood.

Image123: The dishonest folks who liked your post failed to correct you or read what you wrote whether these things were so. They were only trigger happy to click 'like' on any question by an anti-tither. Kindly elucidate on the above quoted.

You have the temerity to tag others as dishonest because they agreed to something that does not align with your level of greed and you call yourself a Christian.
You are asking me to 'Kindly elucidate on the above quoted' while you totally ignored my original question. If you need answers, please ask your senior pastor.

Image123: Your interpretation showsyou are only interested in playing religion like those your rabbi friends.

Every single item I listed is part of the law. If you don't know, find out from your pastor.

Image123: Unfortunately, you like the pharisees of Jesus time are only following and understanding the Word religiously and traditionally, instead of righteously. It is the Spirit that gives life. Jesus never broke the law, but your friends always thought He was breaking it. This is symbolic.

I think I have had enough. There is no point in continuing to reason with hypocrites like you.

ooman: as is the Jesus, Holy Spirit and God invention of your white master, he doesnt have a physical existence, this is why he is seeking to exist in you, GOD IS A PARASITE AND YOU ARE INFECTED, BE HEALED!!!!

Do you mind changing your signature to


Listen to falsehood, become an atheist and gain a free ticket to hell.

poopli: more people becoming atheists this days

Not the least surprised. The bible talked about this.

2 Timothy 3:
1 But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days.
2 People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy,
3 without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good,
4 treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God—
5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with such people.

2 Peter 3:
3 Above all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires.
4 They will say, “Where is this ‘coming’ he promised? Ever since our ancestors died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation.”