₦airaland Forum

Bidam: everything my friend it has a spiritual connotation..but since you don't understand the principle behind tithing you have a choice not to...free will my friend...no one is pointing a gun to your head to tithe.

Are you sure? Watch this.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLsDNxZcOa8

Image123: you're preaching doctrines of men. Tithing is a Bible doctrine. When you become delivered, feel free to include it.

Cherry picker, I agree that tithing is a biblical principle given to the Jews so are the ones listed below among many others.
Kindly read through and tell us which ones you have kept and vehemently defended.

Not adding to the Torah commandments — Deut. 13:1
Saying the Shema twice daily — Deut. 6:7
Wearing tefillin (phylacteries) on the head — Deut. 6:8
Putting a mezuzah on the door post — Deut. 6:9
Not walking outside the city boundary on the Sabbath — Ex. 16:29
Afflicting oneself on Yom Kippur — Lev. 16:29
Not eating or drinking on Yom Kippur — Lev. 23:29
Not eating fruit of a tree during its first three years — Lev. 19:23
Not eating untithed fruits — Lev. 22:15
Separating the tithe for the poor — Deut. 14:28
Carrying out the procedure of the burnt offering as prescribed in the Torah — Lev. 1:3
Burning incense every day — Ex. 30:7
Bringing a sin offering (in the temple) for your transgression — Lev. 4:27
Paying wages on the day they were earned — Deut. 24:15
Not lending to others with interest — Lev. 25:37
Not borrowing from others with interest — Deut. 23:20

I am very certain that you don't even know what Shema or Mezuzah means, but you understand tithing even more than the Israelites because it involves money.

Image123: useless testimonies, they don't even deserve that name. Folks are sharing testimonies of salvation from sin, overcoming temptation, wroughting righteousness, exceeding grace, standing up for Jesus, patience in tribulation, divine help, miracle and healing etc. Others are here glorifying poor financial management. You guys keep harping about giving more than 10% and even 100%. But your stories are tales of bitterness and great strain at giving away 10%. Giving out 10% is a burden and shackle for you but you're boasting of virtual reality giving to the poor. I'd have asked who is deceiving you, but i know. devil is deceiving you.

You failed to include testimonies relating to deliverance from the doctrines of men.

Pastor Kun: @JIL

Thought provoking testimonies, keep them coming

Thanks. Its our duty as Christians to inform people of the gospel truth so that they are released from man-made shackles.

Many have been deceived for too long. Read more genuine testimonies from ex-tithers below.

CAVEAT: I sincerely believe in giving to the work of God and helping those who are in need as I am led by the Holy Spirit.

How 14 years of religion almost destroyed my life.


Testimony of Frank Pecenka, Canada

Hi my name is Frank Pecenka and I have a testimony that 14 years within organized religion almost destroyed my life and my family. My wife and I started out with a sincere desire to know and to please God but something went terribly wrong over the years and in the end I turned my back on God, The Church and Organized Religion.

I finally came to that place where I found that I was emotionally, spiritually and financially bankrupt having exhausted all of my resources trying to make my skewed faith work.

I have come to the realization that the faith I had was in legalism and the formulas of men and their doctrines. Through much suffering, loss, adversity, pain and humiliation I discovered that I could not tip the hand of God and that my best efforts to adhere to the formulas and doctrines of men didn't matter one iota to God.

The milestone event that finally caused me to hit the proverbial wall happened after our family had gone through the loss of our home and bankruptcy. This took place as a result of more than 10 years of tithing, giving and supporting various ministries as well as doing "good works" besides. Since we were trying to raise a family on a single income while home schooling our 2 kids our finances were spread so thin that we had to constantly borrow to make up the shortfall.

After more than 10 years of this folly our debt load swamped us like a tidal wave. The underlying message we kept getting through these turbulent years was that there had to be something wrong with you or God would bless you and heal your finances since his own law binds him. Anyone who cannot make these laws, formulas and doctrines work soon finds themselves on the outside looking in as they are cast aside and rejected since it has to work, doesn't it?

While the pain from my own loss and resulting humiliation was still very fresh, I had to endure listening to a Christian businessman's testimony in our church. It turned out that he was facing personal bankruptcy over 1 million dollars in business debts which he was burdened with as the result of a chain reaction involving a client business that went bankrupt.

He tearfully shared that he had spent that week getting right with God and as a result God had seen to it that the consortium that he owed the money forgave his debt. Upon hearing that, I found myself filled with rage, bitter, disillusioned and feeling rejected by God. God allowed this man who has a home and lifestyle I could only ever dream of to keep his yet the personal sacrifices we made and the things we did without counted as nothing. We were not even empowered to continue what we were doing and there was no eleventh hour intervention on our behalf.

I thankfully came to the conclusion that I could probably never get right with God since my best efforts thus far were useless. Realizing that fact provided a sense of freedom from the bondage of performance to earn favor that is a common theme in organized religion. The time was right for me to hear a message of Grace and the unconditional love of God. This simple but timely message has helped me to put the shattered pieces of my life in perspective.

Since I am presently recovering from a deep depression I still have much anger to work through, primarily directed toward organized religion. Part of this process caused me to sit down and write a letter, which I actually had in a stamped and addressed envelope ready to mail the next day. Instead of the mailbox it ended up in the trash. I have decided to add that letter to this testimony to illustrate what emotional roller coaster ride people in organized religion can find themselves on.

My hope in writing this testimony is that it helps one single person to not go through that what I went through. If that is the case it will have been worth it.

Yours in Christ,
Frank Pecenka

Click on link for more: http://www.tithing.christian-things.com/testimonies.html

This is a testimony of a former tithe payer who finally knew the truth

Dear Brother Kelly,

I’d like to thank you for your work helping believers escape the bondage of tithing and the Old Testament Law.

My wife and I suffered under that bondage for 15 years until I finally took the initiative to research the claims of tithe-teachers myself. I came to the Lord when I was 21, started attending an Assemblies of God Church, and faithfully gave 10% of my gross income to that church regardless of whether I could afford it or not. Unable to afford it because my wife and I were raising 4 young children on a meager income, we started to accumulate a lot of credit card debt. We approached our Pastor at the time who told us we had to tithe, but that the church couldn’t help us out financially. We continued like this for years eventually ending up with over $30,000 in credit card debt, mostly from buying groceries.

There were many times during those years that I questioned whether Christians needed to tithe, but would always run into opposition from my wife, friends, and pastors. Several of our closest friends were Word of Faith people who operated under the fear that if they didn’t tithe, they’d be cursed.

I used to work a job in a paper mill that required me to work 6 or usually 7 days a week, so I rarely felt I had time to study God’s Word. In the long run, it cost me dearly. Eventually though, I grew disgusted with what I saw as abuse in the church as I listened to pastors preach to poor people that, regardless of their circumstances, still needed to tithe. After all, they’d say, “who knows what kind of trouble you’re saving yourself by tithing. Quit now and your life will really get tough.”

After months of careful study, compiling my notes into a book and practicing what my arguments would be, I felt confident enough to share with my wife, friends, and pastors what I had learned regarding tithing. My wife eagerly listened and eventually saw the light. Most of my friends were so fearful of not tithing that they wouldn’t see the light unless their properly ordained pastor told them they didn’t have to tithe. Most disappointing of all was the response I received from almost every pastor I spoke with---5 of them absolutely refused to discuss the issue or even look at my copious notes. Over the years, only 1 pastor of a very small fellowship read what became my book and changed his mind about tithing.

This has been a very discouraging battle for me. Prior to becoming a Christian, I was a devout Roman Catholic. You can imagine the turmoil I endured as I explained to my parents that I was leaving the Catholic Church to attend a Protestant Church. They were heartbroken and even considered not attending my protestant wedding because their Priest told them it would be a sin for them to set foot in my church. I had to leave Catholicism though. I had always questioned authority and had I not I’d still be Catholic today. This is why I have a hard time with the people I know not wanting to question tithing. Many of these friends came out of Catholicism as I had, but it’s as though, once they became protestant, they quit questioning everything. They’ll believe anything their pastor tells them.


Your Fellow laborer in Christ,

J. Parker

http://www.tithing-russkelly.com/id87.html

Bidam: you can't beat God in giving...short and simple.

For the first time ever I totally agree with you.

Bidam: on the contrary, we give our tithes to God because the ability to earn the money is God's gift in the first place( ecc 5:18). 2. We give to God becos the ability to enjoy the wealth is a gift from God( ecc 5:19-20). 3. But on the other hand you guys are tight fisted becos..1. the more you have the more your want the unrighteous mammon(ecc5 :10). 2. The more you have the more you spend(ecc 5:11).3.the more you have the more you worry(ecc5 :12) and lastly the more you have the more you loose (ecc 5:13-14)..abegi make una read ecc5 :14-17 and learn a thing or two why money shuldn't be taking seriously but should instead be invested in God's kingdom...Jesus said it loud and clear in scriptures..you can't serve me and money..so don't hide in hypocrisy quoting NT when you have not yielded your entire being to the Lord as a living sacrifice including your purse(romans 12:1).

Are you sure you know what we have been talking about or are you just trying to misrepresent facts.

Have you heard any of us speaking against giving to God? What we are talking about is that tithing as being practised in our churches today is not scriptural.

Do you know what true Christian giving is all about? Have you ever given more than a 100% of your salary at one go just by the leading of the Holy Spirit without even the pastor knowing who the giver was? Unlike some here who would pay a tenth and announce it to the world.

The type of giving that pleases God is given in 2 Cor 9:7 and that is the basis of a good and acceptable Christian giving that I believe in.

Boomark: Perhaps they don't know what it means for the law to be fullfied. They don't understand what the new covenant with Christ is all about.

Ola, Image123 and co still believe the laws has not been fulfilled by Christ. They are practicing some part of the law as they wait for Christ to fulfil them.

Don't be deceived by these people. They know Christ has fulfilled the law. These are guys who quote the bible as if they penned it themselves. Satan also quotes the scriptures and appear as an angel of light. But they chose to deliberately ignore it because of their love of mammon. They have never offered burnt offerings on behalf of anyone but want to collect tithes.

Image123: where did your comprehension go? The cartoon shows the folly of separating from the OT. The OT is the root, the foundation. It is unwise to run away with only the cross.
Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

So what about the other 612 laws? It is only when it comes to tithes that you realise the OT exists. When last did you offer burnt offerings?

Goshen360: This is the least of things I ever expected from you. Even your very own cartoon supports what we've been telling you since the beginning of this thread.

When Olaadegbu doesn't have anything else to say, he resorts to uploading cartoons that ironically speak against what he represents.

OLAADEGBU: Lawless one. Does this Scripture apply to you seeing that it's in the NT?

(Revelation 22:14).

It surely takes faith to give your tithes and offerings.

"Righteous" man, if Galatians 3:10-11 does not apply to you, these verses do.

Jude 1:11
Woe to them! For they have gone in the way of Cain, have run greedily in the error of Balaam for profit, and perished in the rebellion of Korah.

2 Corinthians 2:17
At least we are not commercializing God's word like so many others. Instead, we speak with sincerity in the Messiah's name, like people who are sent from God and are accountable to God.

OLAADEGBU: Are you a Christian? If the answer is no, then disregard whatever I said but if the answer is yes then do what our Lord Jesus Christ said.

I am not under the law but under grace. For people like you who chose to remain under the law as a result of the love for filty lucre, this message is for you:

Galatians 3:
10 For all who rely on the works of the law are under a curse, as it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.”
11 Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God, because “the righteous will live by faith.

OLAADEGBU: Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.
-- Matthew 23:23-24

Here we go again. You keep recycling the same old argument to justify your profitable but unbiblical cash cow. Look at whom the statement was directed at. Are you a scribe or a pharisee?

We have asked you countless times to produce a single verse where Christians were directed to tithe and you have failed to do so.

Please, refrain from recycling the old stale argument that doesn't hold water and provide solid biblical proof where Christians where told to give a tenth.

Image123: i am back and better ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, i paid my tithes today.

This is what the Lord Himself said about modern pharisees like you:

Luke 18:9 To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everyone else, Jesus told this parable:
10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector.
11 The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector.
12 I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’

13 “But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’

14 “I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”

Goshen360: @ Everyone, kindly watch the 2 hour video; as it is time worth. It exposed the tithing lies including the Abraham false tithing and tithing according to the law.

Thanks bro Goshen, I will find time to watch it sometime today and prob summarise it for Ola.

Image123: you should go and sleep, no literate should take the quoted post seriously.

Mr tithe advocate no 1, your image in Nairaland is already battered and needs to be laundered. I suggest you employ potentpraise.

Goshen360: No worry. I know say I be I.T and computer man. All the things you dey do na eim I dey see. I'll soon report to Admin.

Bro Goshen, I think I have been able to read between the lines. I am beginning to see the connection myself. That is how far tithe advocates are ready to go to continue to deceive the uninformed brethren.

Image123: Jul was not castigated, whatever that means, for posting an article. He and kevin? were expected to SUMMARISE instead of his cheeky copy and paste. Get your acts/facts right.

Point of correction. The original article was not posted by me but someone else. Olaadegbu in his characteristic arrogant attitude ordered the original poster to summarize his article. I was compelled to paste a part of the original article to let him understand that he although he may have the authority to order his followers to pay their tithes under duress, he doesn't have any right to order anyone in this forum.

I laugh when you use the word castigate if you really know what it actually means. I bet you feel at home using it because you are in the habit of castigating those who don't increase your bank balance by paying their tithes.

Last month I stumbled upon an article about an atheistic “church service” in London. I didn’t even read the whole thing before I decided I had to go.

The Sunday Assembly, as the group is called, meets once a month at The Nave in North London for “anybody searching for a sense of community, to meet and ‘turn good intentions into action.’”

It is, all things considered, an atheistic church.

Yes. A church for atheists.

This morning I woke up, sacrificed hearing Os Guinness speak at my own church, and ventured down to Islington with my wife who is used to being dragged to peculiar things like this by now.

We showed up 40 minutes early, but weren’t the first ones there.

In typical British fashion, we all politely “queued up” as we waited for the doors to open. The press was there catching interviews. (They also recorded the entire service along with the attendees to a point that it made it uncomfortable).

In fact, I’ll probably end up in The Guardian or The Independent. I can see it now: Local Atheist Londoner Worships at The Sunday Assembly.

You can’t trust everything you read in the news.

People “queuing up” to attend the second-ever service of The Sunday Assembly. Media reporters captured every moment.Once the doors opened, the church filled up fast. In fact, by the time the service started there was standing room only. There had to have been about 200+ in a church meant to comfortably hold 150.

After snagging two great seats, I surreptitiously wandered around taking photos of the event. I was, after all, running a clandestine intel-gathering mission behind enemy lines. In just three months, I’ll be joining the staff of a church. Before then, however… game on. (Sarcasm, for those who don’t know me.)

Standing room only in the back. Eventually, the balcony was full as well.To be honest, I was taken aback by how many people showed up. Church planters dream of a second-ever service this full, and here I was in the midst of atheists, humanists, and agnostics who were all anticipating something new, something fresh, something exciting for their movement.

Just ten minutes before the service was set to start and the place was packed. More were in the balcony, standing in the back and in the foyer.Once 11:00 came the service kicked off with the band.

Yes. There was an atheistic church band. (Bet you never thought you’d read that in your life.) It was led by comedian Pippa Evans.

A (perhaps first-ever) atheistic church band leading the congregation in hits from Queen, Stevie Wonder, and Nina Simone. Once the band had captured our attention, the “pastor” figure of this service exploded onto the stage. And he was hilarious.

Rightfully so, as the entire service was led by British comedian Sanderson Jones. Jones kicked the service off by warmly welcoming everyone and offering an amusing story of how he had learned that it was actually fellow atheists, not Christians as he had expected, who vocally disapproved of The Sunday Assembly.

He displayed a screenshot of his twitter feed from one disgruntled atheist who claimed that the term “church” to all atheists is like the term “concentration camp” to all Jews. Jones made short work of the mystery atheist – it was pretty funny.

After his introduction, we sang a Queen song as the service moved along.

After some singing, the service shifted to the talk.

It was given by the (wonderfully articulate and intelligent) guest speaker, Harry Cliff – a researcher at the University of Cambridge and super particle physicist from CERN. Cliff delivered a great talk, which I believe ironically pointed to the very God of creation that the church was disavowing.

His talk, entitled “It’s a Wonder We’re All Here” in keeping with the theme of “wonder,” centered around the seeming impossibility of all matter (and consequently us) of existing at all. Why are we all here to wonder why we’re all here in the first place?

As Cliff explained, according to a theory from physicist Paul Dirac, nothing should exist. The stars, the planets, us, all matter… none of it should exist. But it does. So why?

The answer is found in anti-matter. ”Whenever you create a particle of anti-matter,” Cliff explained, “you also have to create a particle of matter.” Likewise, whenever matter and anti-matter meet, they annihilate each other, a la the spectacular climax to Dan Brown’s Angels & Demons.

Couple this with the theory of the Big Bang, when energy was converted into matter, and the symmetry of one particle of anti-matter to one particle of matter should have made everything disappear.

What should have happened after the Big Bang is not the universe we know today, but rather a cold, empty universe of nothing. No stars, no galaxies, no us, no nothing.

But, again, here we are. So, what happened?

Cliff, in his own words, explained what happened.

Harry Cliff gives his talk “It’s A Wonder We’re All Here”“At the Big Bang, matter and anti-matter annihilate each other producing particles of light so every billion particles of light corresponds to one of those annihilations.

So everything in the universe is just one-billionth of what was originally there – we are just a tiny leftover of what was there at the beginning of the universe.

All of that is enough to create all the galaxies, all the stars, all the stuff of you and me. So we are basically talking of absolute, tiny asymmetry of matter and anti-matter that allowed us to exist. In fact, if the asymmetry hadn’t been there, we would live in a completely empty universe.”

“So,” I thought to myself, “at the creation of the universe from nothing there was an inconceivable amount of light followed by the most improbable conditions that allowed for the entire universe to exist.”

I couldn’t hold back a huge smile.

Why? Because Cliff’s talk sounded an awful lot like this:

“In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.

The earth was without form and void…

and God said, ‘Let there be light.’”

Genesis 1.1-3

Here we were at an atheistic church service being delivered evidences of both God’s existence (the improbability of asymmetry at the Big Bang) and the Bible’s trustworthiness (the fact that God’s first creative act was light).

Awesome.

Although, I doubt anyone else in the church shared my sentiment.

My only complaint about Cliff’s talk was that he never discussed the obvious question of how the most improbable condition was probable in the first place.

What made the asymmetry, well, asymmetrical? He essentially sidestepped the chicken-or-the-egg issue with the Big Bang.

Perhaps it’s because there needed to be an intelligence behind the asymmetry of matter and anti-matter in order to bring about the creation of the universe in the most explosive display of light in the universe’s entire existence.

The answer is clear – God caused the conditions for the asymmetry. Furthermore, an ancient culture of divinly-inspired Jews nailed it on describing the event. If you’re not looking at this data from a theistic perspective, the obvious will always evade you.

But, hey. That’s just me.

Throughout the service, I began to notice a consistent theme with almost everyone we spoke with, overheard, or witnessed in the service – everyone missed the music and community of their childhood experiences in church and want to bring it back into their lives.

I feel comfortable saying that many of the atheists in attendance were there precisely because they missed the community and songs of church.

The leader, Jones, mentioned that he missed the community and songs that his childhood church had given him. The woman seated behind us made a similar claim. Another woman, I overheard, said she missed singing songs and being with other people.

“When I was a kid, at church there was always music and other people. I wanted music and community again,” she said in a conversation with a fellow atheist.

It seemed that most people were there for those very reasons – community and singing. Or, what we Christians like to call, fellowship and worship.

The congregation standing just before singing “Superstition” by Stevie Wonder. People missed the fellowship and worship they left behind in their childhood churches, but have since yearned for a return to them.

The more I came to realize this point, the more obvious it became – all of these people, made in God’s image, are simply trying to fill the void of their design and purpose without actually knowing how.

Every human is created in the image of a triune God (community) who designed us to worship. That doesn’t go away simply because you don’t believe in Him.

Deep down in every human being, we yearn to be in community and fellowship, just like the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit have enjoyed for eternity.

Deep down in every human being, we are compelled to worship, because it’s what we were created to do.

Just because you’re an atheist doesn’t mean that all goes away. And today only drove that point home for me. It’s doesn’t matter if you don’t believe in God, every human being still desires community and wants to worship. Where we find our community and what we worship, however, is what will eventually define our joy, lives, and destinies.

Everyone at The Sunday Assembly seemed to believe that by adding community once a month and singing random songs, they will fill that nagging void in their life.

The more I though about this, the more I wanted to stand on my chair and yell “You’re missing the point! It’s not enough!” But, perhaps the unusually large amount of cameras and journalists stopped me in my tracks. After all, I didn’t want to be that guy.

It doesn’t matter how many songs you sing or how many people you hang out with – if it’s not centered around Jesus (the true reason for church in the first place) it’s never going to be enough.

The Sunday Assembly was gathered today in celebration of life, but not the life.

The Sunday Assembly attempted to instill wonder, but without the God of Wonder behind it.

The Sunday Assembly tried to experience a spirit in singing, but without the Holy Spirit of a good, perfect, and loving God.

They are missing the point entirely.

Church isn’t about music, it isn’t about making people feel happy, and it isn’t about instilling wonder. Church isn’t even about getting together in community to get your felt needs met.

Church is about Jesus.

Because we were designed to worship and to live in community, we do get some felt needs met at church, but it’s not the entire focus or purpose of church. The entire focus and purpose of church should be Jesus.

Until the good people of The Sunday Assembly understand this simple truth, they will never fill that missing void of worshipping Jesus in the community of imperfect yet redeemed people, no matter how many songs they sing, guest speakers they have, or good works they promote.

Next to The Nave was a small (in comparison, tiny) chapel annex that was housing an African worship service. While we were first “queuing up” to get in The Nave, a woman dressed in Sunday’s best squeezed her way past us. ”Excuse me,” she politely asked for a clearing to walk through. Two women behind us giggled as one muttered, “I bet she’s going to real church.”

The real church service started before The Sunday Assembly and was still running after our service had ended. I snuck into the back of the chapel annex to hear the prayer that the pastor of this tiny church offered his congregation in the shadow of their new atheist neighbors next door.

The annex next to The Nave where “real church” was being held. His voice filled the room.

“We love you Jesus,” he said with a thick African accent. “We love you so much and want other’s to know you, so they can experience your love and, in return, love you simply for who you are and what you’ve done for us.”

“Amen,” I thought to myself. That was the most encouraging thing I had heard all day.

A group of people, most of whom were down-and-out, gathered together in community to worship Jesus in song and prayer. No media attention, no comedian-led entertainment, no high-profile speaker.

Just a few Jesus people getting together to worship, fellowship, and pray on a Sunday morning.

Now that’s church.

http://www.prophecynewswatch.com/2013/February13/134.html#.UR2LTaVhg2W

OLAADEGBU: Will a man rob God? - R.C. Sproul

http://www.ligonier.org/learn/articles/will-man-rob-god/

Hypocrite! You arrogantly asked someone to summarise their article but you shamelessly refused to do so yourself.

truthislight: How did you come to know this much

Bro, some of us have been on read-only mode for a while but it doesn't mean we don't know what's going on here.

Image123: cool down. Have you paid your tithe? i have a gut feeling you'll feel more peace, you look like you need some.

Your gut must be made of steel and baked in a furnace of greed. I wonder how you guys sleep at night.

It was chaps like you Paul was talking about when he talked about those who peddle the word of God for profit.

Your antecedents are known here. Those who know their left from their right don't take people like you seriously.

OLAADEGBU: I asked you to summarise and you went off to copy and paste the whole article. If you don't know how to summarise would you at least learn some basic bible knowledge? And for your information, the Bible does not say that Money is the root of all evil. Read your Bible and if you are of a teachable heart you might come to the knowledge of truth.

You asked me to summarise? Do I look like one of your students? You are puffed up with pride.

You feel too important to read a passage because it doesn't seem to match up with your personal view and you're arrogant enough to ask someone else to summarise it for you.

I feel sorry for those who sit down and expect bible twisters like you to teach them the truth.

OLAADEGBU: Is this how you learnt how to summarise? I'm sorry for our students back at home.

Of all the evidence that is there for you to read and consider, your major concern is about summarization.

You never had the intention to read the text or even accept if it was summarized to you in a few words.

People like you don't see anything wrong in telling people who have come to church to worship God that they are cursed with a curse because they fail to pay 10% of their income to you. Money that you feel by divine right belongs to you.

Like someone rightly said, your conscience is dead. The apostles gave their all for the gospel. They went around from village to village, country to country preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ to everyone and did not ask converts to pay them tithes. You sit down in your local church continuously preaching the same message to those who should be reaching out to the lost in the first place and believe that for all your efforts you deserve 10% of their income. Money indeed is the root of all evil.

Pastor Kun: The more I read the thrash rodents like Olaadegbu, image123 and Joagbaje write about tithes given their evasive tactics and deliberately manipulative posts, the more I am convinced that deep down in their corrupt minds they know that tithing is not applicable to christians. However for reasons other than standing for biblical truth and also their love for filthy lucre they would rather tear the bible to shreds than admit this simple truth just because it doesn't assuage with their greedy interest. The amazing thing is these guys claim to be christians yet they have no qualms with twistong the very word of God they claim to serve.

The truth may be bitter but it must be told.

OLAADEGBU: You might as well summarise your points here.

You asked for a summary. Here it is

To Tithe or Not to Tithe: The $earch For Truth
Though I’ve always struggled with the tithe, I still shook my head in disgust when I heard about the preacher who’s congregation quietly left the church during the prayer following a long sermon on tithing. He said "Amen", looked up and cried out "half my church is gone!" I laughed saying "they must have fled the conviction of the Holy Spirit".

What the Lord said took me completely by surprise: "They fled from error and guilt-based giving". "What?!?" - I’ve heard more sermons on the tithe than on any other topic except perhaps our need of Jesus for eternal life! After I picked up my jaw from the floor, the Lord prompted me to study tithing and giving. Throughout the Bible study I prayed for His guidance and in the end I reached the inescapable conclusion that the "tithe" is to the modern church what the issue of "circumcision" was to the church in Paul’s time.

NOTE: Nothing in this article is intended as an excuse to stop giving as the Lord leads you to give.

The verse most often cited in support of the tithe is from the Old Testament, found in Malachi 3:8-10:

8. ""Will a man rob God? Yet you rob me. "But you ask, `How do we rob you?' "In tithes and offerings. 9. You are under a curse--the whole nation of you--because you are robbing me. 10. Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. Test me in this," says the LORD Almighty, "and see if I will not throw open the floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing that you will not have room enough for it.
Many preachers shorten Malachi 3:8-10 to just "Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse", and almost always with the inference that their church is the "storehouse". For purposes of this paper, the Lord had me concentrate on the passage: "Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house". From that passage, the Lord had me research several questions:
1) What is the tithe?
2) What was the tithe for?
3) What is the storehouse?
1) What is the tithe? The tithe is 10% of the increase, established in Leviticus 27:30-33 as an offering Holy to the Lord. The scripture identifies the tithe as grain and fruit, herd and flock. The tithe is food! An example of the tithe can be seen in a shepherd with a flock of 100 sheep who is blessed with the birth of 50 lambs in the spring. Five of the lambs must be offered to the Lord as a tithe. The tithe was brought to the temple in Jerusalem in acknowledgement and appreciation of God’s provision for His people.
2) What was the tithe for? God doesn’t need the food – God doesn’t eat. God doesn’t desire sacrifices or offerings ( Psalm 40:6 and Hosea 6:6 ) – He desires mercy. God doesn’t need us to give Him a 10th of everything – when He already owns everything ( Psalm 24:1 and Job 41:11b ). The tithe was used to feed the Levite priests (and their families) who were required to work in the temple day and night ministering to God on behalf of God’s people ( 1 Chronicles 9:33 ). Without the tithe, the Levite priests would have needed to raise their own food, thereby taking them away from ministering before God. Hence the reference in Malachi 3:10 "…that there may be food in my house". Nehemiah 13:10-13 records a time when the Levite priests were not receiving the tithe wherein they abandoned their daily temple responsibilities to work the farms to feed their families. The reference to ‘robbing God’ in Malachi 3:8 is in fact robbing God of ministry and worship by failing to take care of God’s priests through the tithe of food items. Unlike the other tribes of Israel who were given land as their inheritance, the Levites were not given any land – only a few cities in which to live. God was their inheritance ( Numbers 18:20-21 ). Thus, the remaining tribes were obligated to provide the Levites with food since they had no land on which to grow their own.

3) What is the storehouse? 2 Chronicles 31 teaches that the storehouse is the Temple in Jerusalem. When the tithe was re-instituted under King Hezekiah, the king gave orders to prepare storerooms in the temple to hold the tithe. Apparently the grain "tithe" was heaped up in the streets, which caused a traffic jam of sorts. King Hezekiah had the storehouse built to relieve a bad case of urban congestion in ancient Jerusalem.

Having established the original purpose of the tithe, the Lord prompted me with several more questions.

Q: "What happened to the temple (storehouse)?"
A: It was destroyed in 70AD and has not been rebuilt.

Q: "Why?"
A: The old covenant system of animal sacrifice to atone for sin is finished. The new covenant is in the blood of Christ who is the final and everlasting sin sacrifice.

Q: "Where is the temple now?"
A: 1 Corinthians 6:19 says WE are the temple of the Holy Spirit. God no longer resides in a stone temple, but in the hearts of his children through the Holy Spirit.

Q: "What happened to the Levite priests?"
A: The Levite priesthood is no longer necessary as the old covenant system of animal sacrifice in the temple was superceded by the everlasting covenant of Christ’s blood.

Q: "Who is the priesthood now?"
A: 1 Peter 2:5 and 9 says those who have received Jesus as Lord and Savior are the priesthood.

Come On Laity, Let’s Do The Twist

Burdening the Body of Christ with the Tithe requires several twists and reinterpretations of scripture.

1) The tithe must be imported from the OT law of Moses to the new covenant of grace by Christ’s blood.
2) The tithe must be redefined from "flocks, herds, fruit and grain" to "money" and often "time".
3) The storehouse must be redefined from the temple in Jerusalem to the local church building.
4) The Body of Christ must buy into the ordained clergy as the new priesthood, thereby replacing the Levite priesthood as the rightful recipient of the tithe.
5) The Body of Christ must forfeit their own priesthood and buy into the notion that they are the "laity".
The tithe has been introduced to the Body of Christ using 2 tactics of the enemy.
1) Sowing guilt and shame into the Body of Christ by quoting Malachi 3:8 "Will a man rob God? Yet you rob me. But you ask, `How do we rob you?' In tithes and offerings." What devoted Christian wants to rob God? The net effect of sowing guilt has been to extort money from the Body of Christ, thereby robbing the Body of the joy and blessing of giving as God leads. The practice ignores Paul’s instructions to the church at Corinth: "Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver ( 2 Corinthians 9:7 )."
2) Blaming the "laity" for the financial troubles in the Body of Christ , by telling the Body they are not blessed by God because they do not tithe. Often Malachi 3:10 is emphasized "Test me in this, says the LORD Almighty, and see if I will not throw open the floodgates of heaven and pour out so much blessing that you will not have room enough for it." In so doing, believers are challenged to tithe, with the promise that God will bless them if they do. Such giving is not out of love for God, but out of selfishness. It implies a reward for works, which contradicts Ephesians 2:8-9 , and completely ignores our status as sons of God by faith in Christ ( Galatians 3:26 ) and joint heirs of God with Christ ( Romans 8:17 ). The practice also ignores Christ’s words in Matthew 4:7 "Do not put the Lord your God to the test".

The Apostles Did Not Teach Gentiles To Tithe
Acts 15:1-31 records a dispute over circumcision that arose in the Gentile church at Antioch. Several false brothers had attempted to require Gentile (non-Jewish) Christians to be circumcised. Paul and Barnabas sharply opposed the false brothers and traveled to Jerusalem to discuss the issue of circumcision with the other apostles. In Jerusalem, they reported the miracles and conversions among the Gentiles. The apostles were filled with joy over God’s work there, and they agreed that circumcision was not a requirement for salvation. Following the meeting, the apostles and elders in the church at Jerusalem sent Paul and Barnabas back to Antioch with a letter of welcome to the Gentile Christians. The essential text of the letter is found in Acts 15:28-29. It reads: "It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things. Farewell."

The apostles did not want to burden the Gentiles with Old Testament practices! The proof is in their letter to the Gentiles and the fact that the apostles did not impose the tithe on them.

Come, Let Us Reason Together ( Isaiah 1:18 )

Let’s suppose for the sake of argument that Jesus had commanded us to continue tithing. It would be appropriate then to use the tithe to feed the priesthood as originally purposed. Who then is the priesthood? The apostle Peter writes in 1 Peter 2:5 and 9 that every believer is a priest ! Hebrews 5-8 also teaches us that Jesus is the only priest that we need . However the institutional church has borrowed from the Old Testament model of the Levitical Priesthood, thereby establishing a new priesthood (ordained clergy) that is separate from the rest of the Body of Christ. The division between the clergy, and the so-called "laity" is not Biblical (Is this the doctrine of the Nicolaitan’s that Jesus says He hates in Revelation 2:6 ) ?In fact, Jesus did not establish the ordained clergy – He chose fishermen and tax collectors to preach His gospel. Neither did He establish division in His church, He desires unity ( John 17:20-23 ). The apostles did not set up an ordained clergy – they chose men full of the Holy Spirit and wisdom to serve the Body ( Acts 6:3, 1 Timothy 3 ). This man-made division between "clergy" and "laity" has effectively served to divert the offerings of the Body of Christ away from the people it is intended to bless and the offerings are most often used in ways contrary to the will of God. The net result has been starvation and financial bondage for many believers, and the real priesthood – the whole Body of Christ – has not been prepared to carry out Christ’s command to preach the gospel to all nations!

Jesus is the Word of God in the flesh ( John 1:14 ). He knew that Malachi 3:10 says "bring the whole tithe into the storehouse" when He instructed the rich man to sell everything and give the proceeds to the poor ( Matthew 19:21 ). I imagine the Scribes and Pharisees about choked on what Jesus said as they were in the habit of devouring widow’s houses for profit ( Luke 20:47 ) and the rich man’s possessions would have been a real feast for them. In Matthew 25:31-46, Jesus reiterated His desire to help the poor in the parable of separating the sheep from goats, wherein at judgement Jesus will reward those who feed the hungry and clothe the poor. Since Jesus judges us for our care of the poor and hungry, and since He commands us to preach the gospel throughout the world, why is most of our giving used for church buildings and salaries with only a small percentage devoted to the poor, missions and evangelism?

Is the church making goats out of us by not feeding the hungry and clothing the poor with our offerings?

Let’s not wait until the Judgement of Christ to find out!

Sins of the Church Against the Needy

The Lord has been trying to bring me to the truth about giving for years. On many occasions, He prompted me to take what I would have normally put in the offering plate at church and give it directly to someone in need. I love giving like that! Still, in the absence of specific giving instructions from the Lord, I never questioned the common practice of giving everything to the church, whereupon I trusted the church to administer my gifts. That is until the day the Lord had me witness an abomination that left me nauseous.

In the main office of a church I attended years ago, I was fixing a computer one Friday morning. Two young black women, with 3 adorable children dressed in their Sunday best, came into the office to ask for a food donation. The 3 secretaries of our all white upper middle class church stared at them, and finally one said nervously "our deacon of benevolence is in the office on Thursday afternoons – can I make an appointment for you next Thursday?" One of the women pleaded "We can’t wait a week, we need food now". The secretary repeated her offer, and I became sick to my stomach. I left quickly and drove a mile up the road to a cash machine and came directly back to the church only to find that the 2 women and 3 children had left empty handed. The staff did not know where they had gone, and I returned to my car and wept. I felt as if I had failed but the Lord said "you did not fail son, the church failed".

Since that first eye-opening experience, the Lord has shown me many more sins of the church against the poor that have left me ill. One church considered installing an air conditioning system for which several members had pledged $35,000 while another member of the church who was wheelchair bound from advanced multiple sclerosis didn’t have enough money to buy food at the end of the month with what little state aid she received. Often she was forced to chose between food, medicine or heat in winter. For many months my wife and I gave to her anonymously and when she went to be with the Lord last winter, she was at peace – the kind of peace that only acts of love can bring ( 1 John 3:18, James 1:22 ). As she was relieved of her financial stress, she blessed everyone around her with unquenchable joy. Most importantly, she taught us about right giving.

More recently, I attended a conference where the host appealed to the audience to give "an offering for the poor". I heard the Lord say "the poor are among you" ( Mark 14:7 ) and immediately I thought of a dear friend in attendance who is experiencing financial difficulties and had recently lost her home. The next day I began a letter to the host saying "Last night you took an offering from the poor" . I groaned at the error and started to rip the page from my notebook when the Lord said "that is not an error – last night’s offering was taken from the poor".

The Lord then brought to mind the parable of the sheep and goats, specifically Matthew 25:40 where it says "whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me". The words "these brothers of mine" had not made an impression on me before, and the Lord brought me to the understanding that our first obligation to the poor is to the poor within the Body of Christ. The Lord then brought Matthew 15:26 to mind wherein Jesus said "It is not right to take the children’s bread and toss it to the dogs".

The early church had a much better understanding of Christ’s intent to care for the needs of the Body of Christ than we do today. The proof of their caring for each other can be seen in Acts 2:44-47 and Acts 4:32-37 where the Body of Christ shared everything, and through their giving, they eliminated poverty and indebtedness. In fact, Acts 4:34 says "there were no needy persons among them!" Taking up offerings to feed the Body of Christ was common in the early church. In Acts 11:27-30, the Gentile church at Antioch took up an offering for the believers in Judea who were experiencing a time of famine. Can you imagine a church today taking up an offering for a cross-town rival?

How did the church get so far off course?

Giving as Christ Intends

Though the tithe is not a requirement for the Body of Christ, we are still instructed to give. What changed from the Old Testament to the New is our motivation for giving. In the Old Testament, giving was compulsory – a tenth (tithe). In the New Testament we are to give with joy as we are led to give ( 2 Corinthians 9:7 ), not by compulsion.

Our attitude about giving should be like that of the poor widow who Jesus esteemed in Mark 12:41-44. She put 2 small copper coins, worth a penny, into the temple treasury. They were all the widow had to live on. She understood that God owns everything and was willing to give all that she had with cheer as God had prompted her to do.

It is time to invest cheerfully in what is eternal, specifically in God’s children for the completion of Kingdom work ( Matthew 6:19-21 ). The children must be fed, clothed and equipped to carry Christ’s gospel throughout the whole world and to make the Bride of Christ ready for her soon returning Savior. Imagine what it could be like if we resumed giving and sharing as Jesus intends. Surely we would rediscover the same abundant and powerful living as the early church enjoyed!

On the topic of giving, John 8:36 might seem like a strange scripture to cite: "So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed". While it is true that Jesus set us free from the curse of the law ( Galatians 3:10-13 ), sin and death ( Romans 8:2 ), our failure to give as Jesus taught us has kept the Church in financial bondage, and has prevented the Church from completing the work of Christ on earth. How many children of God fail to reach their full potential as ministers of the Gospel because they lack provision? It is through our giving and sharing that we equip the Church for service, eliminate hunger and poverty, and realize the fullness of our freedom in Christ.

We can no longer afford to misuse our offerings for church buildings, parsonages, conference centers, multi-purpose buildings, air conditioning, padded pews, pipe organs, and the like, all of which will soon be forgotten, while God's children go hungry, poor and ill equipped to minister the Gospel. Instead, like Abel, we should give our best gifts to the true Church – the people – because we love God and want to see God's work accomplished on the earth.

On concluding my study, the Lord asked one final question: What building ever won a person to Christ?

Ask the Lord to show you what to give and to whom, and remember that His words "Feed my sheep" (John 21:17) go much deeper than a pastor's sermon on a Sunday morning. His words are spiritual, and they are literal.

OLAADEGBU: If you want to know what Jesus said about tithes you can read Matthew 23:23. I'll suggest you study what is meant by Christian stewardship and giving which takes it to another level than your 10% tithing. If the law says 10% then Grace says 100%.

"For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ" (John 1:17).

The God of the OT is also the God of the NT they are not different. Jesus came to give the proper interpretation of the Moral Law of God and not to abolish it.

Burnt sacrifices and offering nko? Since God does not change should we continue to practice it?

Jesus did not commission you to go and collect tithes and defend it as if your life and existence depend on it. He said go ye to the world and preach the gospel

Image123: The hypocrisy of all due respect.

Your antecedents are well known here. I don't need to add anything to it.

OLAADEGBU: For your information tithes and offering is a spiritual principle that God has given as a means for meeting the churches financial needs. If you have given your life to Jesus nothing else will be too much for you to give unless your money has become your idol. The wallet or the purse is usually the last frontier to give way especially for the Naija man.

With all due respect, I don't need someone like you to furnish me with information regarding tithes and offering. I have the word of God and the Holy Spirit to guide me into all truth.

Why is it that only the tithing ordinance among all the 613 laws of the old testament that people like you are keen to keep harping on?

I won't waste my time to begin to quote scriptures for you. It is an exercise in futility to argue with someone who benefits from this.

Where is it stated in the new testament that tithing is a spiritual principle that God has given as a means of meeting the financial needs of the church? Check the new testament and you would discover that it deals with almost every subject pertaining to good Christian living but there is no where believers where directed to pay tithes.

The gospel truth is that proponents of modern tithing don't trust God enough to supply the financial needs of the church without the need to coerce people to tithe.


Did the early church tithe? Was the early church financed through tithing? When was the tithing ordinance added as a Christian principle?

Search diligently for the answers to the above questions and you will discover the truth staring at you in the face.

Please don't play on the intelligence of some and the fears of others by making a sweeping statement without backing it up with scriptures.

I am not in the habit of calling others rogues or thieves but from the look of things I may be inclined to start with you.

I had been a subscriber of ICR's articles for some time but unsubscribed immediately I received the article the op posted.

I don't personally subscribe to calling anyone a fake or a thief but anyone who believes in the doctrine of tithes that is being preached and practised today should check their conscience.

ProPastorChris: what did i steal? your money or what? do you so easily run your unguarded mouth cos you are ignorant of this matter?

Please reread my post carefully and show me where I called you a thief. All I did was to tell you what olé meant in English. It's shows that you are either dumb or lack comprehension skills.

So you think the best way to receive from God after paying your "first fruits" is to announce it to the whole wide world.

From you posts you are either innocently ignorant or a thief. There you go. You finally succeeded in forcing me to call you a thief. Now listen to those who know the scriptures more than you or shut up