₦airaland Forum

rvp2018:
Well hotel or restaurants - middle class should be able to dine there once in a while. You cannot hide wealth or progress in shadow or informal. It doesn't exists.

exactly
you cant hide wealth

and so far, all the stats prove you are poorer

Shma:
Somehow, but what will you say about Tz and Ethiopia case, they have twice our population but our GDP still doubles theirs , yeah huge population like the one of Nageris will for sure influence.

Ethiopia is a special case in Africa after many years of battling droughts and famine

vaxx2:
You mean the high speed train?

yes

rvp2018:
We cannot see that real estate boom in pictures or videos - maybe your cities are just sprawling into huge unplanned slumspolis? Be careful you don't become another Nigeria or Gabon.

Gabon officially has Africa highest GDP per capita I think - but the country is a shit.hole.

GOOGLE MAP does Not lie


have a real satellite view.

aint got time to run around Ghana and take pics

rvp2018:
What do you mean revenues? You mean gov revenues? Or you mean trade - export revenues. Kenya doesn't have natural resources like you - in most typical African countries - our remittance is also very low - now approaching 3b dollars - our trade deficit is whopping 11B dollars (we export about 6B dollars and import 18-20B dollars worth of goods). Our gov revenues are approaching 20-21B dollars.

In short - Ghana is typical Africa country dependant on minerals - Kenya outside South africa has the MOST SOPHISTICATED DOMESTIC ECONOMY that makes nonsense of 11B trade deficit.If you look at say our retail & wholesaling - formal trade it inching towards 40%. Kenya is 2nd to south africa in luxury goods market.

For example - six carre four stores in Nairobi - closed nearly 150M dollars in total sales
https://www.businessdailyafrica.com/corporate/companies/Carrefour-s-Kenya-sales-hit-Sh14bn/4003102-5057928-p3eh5iz/index.html

In short - Ghana is still largely primitive informal economy held together by minning, oil & remittance - while Kenya is well diversified sophisticated market - that is secondly only to south africa - and quickly formalizing.

the revenue he is refering to is tax revenue


for a country with 52 million people, almost double the number of people Ghana has
Your tax revenue shouldn't be less than 15 billion dollars cause 20 billion dollars is an under achievement.

tax revenue should always be 25% or above of gdp

Shma:
Seems Ghana is far much developed than any other country in west.! Your HDI is slightly high above Kenya and far much ahead of any other west African. But when it come to economy I guess GDP speaks it bro. We are ahead of you guys in GDP.

except GDP spread to the production level of your citizens speaks otherwise

rvp2018:
Actually I was wasting my time and energy - Ghana is just poor country like kenya. It has roughly same GDP per capita - about 2,200?

Kenya gdp per capita is $2010 dollars
gdp 99 billion
population 52 million

Kazikazi:
No proof given.Most African governments are cheating their figures.You can't say Dar es salaam is small.If u want comparisons, u are welcome.But no gov figures,just bring pics or videos for proof.
I can't accept the lies of a country with huge middle class but there are no real estate owned by same middle class.
I don't know what u have done ahead of Dar. Do u have skyscrapers more than Dar?More residential homes than Dar? Better hospitals than those in Dar?Better hotels? Better marine transportation than Dar? Better golf courses? Better public transport?

you are funny

what do you think 10 million metric tonnes of cement is used for?
why should Ghana waste money on marine transport when none of it communities are built along river courses.?

Facts still remains that the real estate market in Ghana is bigger and developed than in Tanzania.
Why should we build golf courses when golf is not a game appreciated here?
how does golf courses make you developed?

you wont even talk about the necessities like schools, hospitals

rvp2018:
I find that hard to believe. I think as country become rich - it starts looking rich - organized - formal. Officially Ghana gdp per capita is about 3000 - just a few dollars to join middle class nation - and it doesn't look the part.

Opps I think GDP per capita is 2000 or around - well no need to sweat it. That is about right.

the informal economy in China is larger than the formal economy

Do you even know the size of the derivatives market in the US and how they managed to bring that into their formal economy?

Ghana GDP per capita is 2400 dollars

rvp2018:
Okay I think Dangote has the figure.

From his group 2018 results.
http://www.dangotecement.com/wp-content/uploads/reports/2019/FY2018/DangoteCement_FY2018_ResultsStatement.pdf

Ghana
With per-capita consumption of about 213kg/person and total demand of more than 6Mt in 2018, Ghana
is an attractive market for cement in West Africa. Its economy is strong and this is driving housing and
infrastructure growth across the country.

you sound really funny


Dangote is not even a player yet in Ghana and you think hewill have figures on the Ghanaian sector?
anyway, this is from GHACEM, the single largest player in the sector reporting on the sector as at 2017 or 18

https://www.ghacem.com/en/social_contribution

Rev. Dr. George Dawson-Ahmoah, who read it out in his welcome address noted the coming together of the cement manufacturers was in recognition of the enormous value addition that is being created by the companies, making the industry a strategic one in the economic development of Ghana. “All together we have an installed production capacities of about 8.6 million tons per annum and creating over 3,000 own and outsourced employees with an average financial contributions of over 500 million Ghana Cedis (direct, indirect taxes, port dues etc) also creating extended business offers to various business entrepreneurs.” he said.

Rev. Dr. Dawson-Ahmoah, further indicated that by the close of the year, an additional manufacturing set up with a total capacity of about 1.6 million tons is expected making a total installed capacity of 10.2 million tons per annum. He shows the economic importance of the cement manufacturing industries that called for a united front focusing on ensuring adequate protection against unfair trade practices.

Kazikazi:
You should doubt.Kumasi and Accra don't look like cities from middle income country.I can't mention Tokoradi or tamale.A country like Zambia,has better cities than what u see in Kumasi.
I think Ghana gov is overrating their economic numbers

your rants are sounding funny

Those cities have grown beyond themselves such that their centre looks dejected

but comparing your below standard country is far under the belt.
Because Tanzania and Zanzibar are far underdeveloped

rvp2018:
Cement figures you gave me are not authoritative. They come from similar websites like the one that said cement consumption was 5.2M tonnes.

10M seem highly unlikely. Entire Dangote Cement last year(2018) sold 8.9m in all it's market outside Nigeria- Ghana, Ethiopia, Tanzania.
http://www.dangotecement.com/wp-content/uploads/reports/2019/FY2018/DangoteCement_FY2018_ResultsStatement.pdf

I give you a figure from the Authority of the sector and you're claiming it is not authoritative

why are you quoting dangote cement when Dangote is just a small player in the cement market in Ghana?

popizaino:
You are right.

In the years to come Accra would have extended into ada.

it already has

same way it has extended into Gomoa

rvp2018:
All that reflect in STANDARD OF LIVING and QUALITY OF LIFE. You don't need my bank account to know I am doing badly or well. Informal sector for example is clearly manifestation of under-development. As people get richer, they drive cars, shop in supermarkets, dine in branded hotels, fly for vacations, send their kids to good schools and buy luxury goods.

no
informal economy is a clear manifestation of a real shadow economy and globally, that economy is worth more than the known economy.

Who goes to a hotel to dine?
that is not the purpose of a hotel.

whiles people build wealth, they send their kids to better schools, buy luxury, go on vacations, shops and drive cars

Problemkid1:
Nice one? Yeah I also watch it when Nana Addo is telling all the governor in Ghana to avoid budget for 2020 election. Something like that? Can't remember anymore!

Well, that's good project from Ghana?

no not really

The money being spent would make more sense if spent on the alternative propose by Dr. Thomas Mensah

rvp2018:
I was ready to give Ghana the benefit of dubt until I saw Kumasi and Accra. Yes on face value - Ghana does look good - progressive middle class country - but why isn't the middle class manifesting itself. If you go to South Africa - you don't need stats - to say - this is a middle class country. If you go to Namibia - you don't need to have been even to school to know they are doing good - same with Botswana.

the middle class is manifesting itself on the outskirt of town

They want nothing to do with city centres

Those countries you are mentioning high control land use
thereby concentrating their population in the centre of towns.


Today, Accra has so many commercial areas because of the spread out.

just by look, you'll think Stockholm is an empty city with no grid A offices but only turns out to have a different dev't path

rvp2018:
That is akin to claiming slum economy can sustain a city. Your cities look under-developed - because the informal sector to sustain a formal economy - and therefore the economic figures are questionable - or are being distorted by natural resources (gold, diamond, oil, aluminimum, bauxite) like you find in Gabon. It would appear to me that Ghanians are probably too poor to have a sizeable middle class that can sustain a formal sector.

actually on the contrary, the Ghanaian middle class is large enough and they play a major role as the driving force of the Ghanaian economy.
The contribution is what is leading the huge real estate boom in Ghana.

Since you want to quote natural resources, whiles natural resources drive the majority of Ghana export
the Ghanaian economy is highly powered by the services sector which has a 60% lead.

rvp2018:
That is not helpful. That is just Dangote trying to take your gov to cleaners. Concrete roads are 3 times more expensive than Bitumen or Asphalt.

What we need is Ghana true cement production and consumption for 2018 - or better if you have 2019 data.

Not Dangote sell pitch - he has Nigerians even allowing not to pay taxes as he pour concrete on roads. Crazy state capture.

it is right there in the publication

Which came from the oversight committee on the sector.



which concrete roads are expensive to construct, they last 10 times longer than asphalt and bitumen roads.
An example is the Accra Tema motorway, 60 years on and the roads is highly motorable.

Because of the extra 5 million excess metric tonnes in production,
cement manufacturers are calling on the government to expedite it plans of building more concrete roads.

One road up for major upgrade is the Accra Tema motorway (a concrete road).

Britain and the US did this same thing in the early 1900s
Britain had a surplus cement production during those days, so they changed their building code to allow for
architectures with huge columns and strengthening members.

rvp2018:
How can installed capacity of 12m produce 15m metric tonnes?. I think you need to find us more credible data than some Dangote cement lobbyist trying to commit Ghana gov to expensive concrete roads like they are doing in Nigeria. Concrete roads are too expensive for Ghana or Nigeria.

Because those are 2018 figures whiles consumption was 8 million metric tonnes


Since then,more cement factories have come online

and after those 2018 figures,

this factory launched and brought onboard 2.6 million metric tonnes
https://www.ghanaweb.com/GhanaHomePage/business/Cement-prices-to-fall-as-Dzata-Cement-starts-production-in-December-676542

Kazikazi:
Always my point is,your real estate sector don't match with your economic growth, or higher per capita income or your GDP in general. A quick look of Kumasi city comparing with mwanza city in Tz,shows mwanza has a better real estate. Again Tz has a very huge informal sector. But Kumasi with higher population, with higher per capita,with higher hdi,looks worse than mwanza.
Somewhere,somewhat, your stats are questionable. Or Tz is underreporting?

and i have given you proof that it outperforms what you have in Tanzania.


I just cant imagine how a country with twice the population of Ghana is outperformed in real estate demands by Ghana.

That small Dar Es Sallam area you keep posting makes you think you are developed.
Ghana has gone far beyond that.

These days in Ghana, there are villages that you can hardly call villages

rvp2018:
Why not add it yourself. I only see Ghanacem aiming for 3m. You're being hostile because you are standing on shifting sand as we turn our focus temporarily on Ghana.

no need to argue

ive given you figures

samorobo:
Lol if just30 should fall this nonsense then I will know he is gullible...You went to PWC websites right? An you copied and pasted from it. Why didn't you attach the link? But rather You replaced it with an archaic source from your country to back it up (it was even talking about plans)....this was the same thing you did to me and tylann fell for it....
My guess is that you have tampered with those figures that is why you don't want to attach the PWC link which you just visited.

this is what PWC is saying

https://www.pwc.co.za/en/publications/hospitality-outlook.html

rvp2018:
Heckling little girl. It was 18K in 2015 - how can current trend be less.

it was never 18K in 2015

the 18K was a projection base on the expectation that it will double.

in 2015, it was almost 7,000

it is expected to reach 10,000 in 2023
https://www.pwc.co.za/en/publications/hospitality-outlook.html

vaxx2:
That is prediction...pwc current trend says it is 10.000

maybe he wants me to give him the revise figure which is from 2018 to 2023 on their website

rvp2018:
But it's a recent phenomena...I am not sure of Ghana but Nigeria have claimed 50% urbanization for like 30 yrs - the same with electricity access.

all you need is the number of people from both countries that live in the urban environment

and you'll realise that it is still 50%.

whiles urban population growth in both Ghana and Nigeria is driven mainly by migration than new borns growth

In rural areas, the growth of population is driven by new born babies.

so there is a balancing act goin on that keep the figure steady

rvp2018:
Those are present in every Africa country - I just struggling to understand how a city of 4M plus people can survive with a tiny formal sector. Maybe remittance dollars?

remitance is nothing compare to what the informal sector make

rvp2018:
You & Sammy - should find a private room - to heckle. Just fish the latest cement consumption data.

I read mine here https://brandongaille.com/15-ghana-cement-industry-statistics-and-trends/

#1. Local cement manufacturers in Ghana have an installed capacity to produce about 7.4 million tons of product every year. That is above the annual consumption of cement in Ghana, which is estimated to be 5 million tons per year. (Ghana Trade)

help yourself


http://citifmonline.com/2018/01/concrete-roads-absorb-ghanas-surplus-cement-industry/

rvp2018:
We are trying to find the truth. I am seeing 5M tonnes domestic consumption in 2018 with installed capacity of 7.5m. Where is the 10M coming from.

Ghana produce 15 million metric tonnes in 2019

Cement manufacturing companies in Ghana are appealing to government to quickly implement a policy which will ensure that all roads in the country are made of concrete.

According to them this will help consume the surplus cement in the country as well as sustain their operations.

Figures available from the cement monitoring committee show that Ghana consumes about 8 million metric tons of cement annually.

This consumption level is less than the production estimated at 12 million metric tons.

Speaking to Citi Business News on the matter, a member of the Cement Monitoring Committee, Mr. Sammy Amegayibor said President Akufo Addo who had earlier made mention of such a policy, should ensure that it is put into force to sustain the country’s cement industry.

“The total installed capacity will come to about twelve million metric tonnes, this is more than what Ghana needs for the cement industry. I mean there will have to be a way to export some of the products if all of them want to sustain business, I remember the President himself in one of his addresses to the public said that one of the policies that government will bring up to consume the surplus cement was to ensure roads projects are done using a lot of cement material”.

Mr Amegayibor stressed that should government see to the implementation of such a policy the cement industry will continue to grow, “If we live by it, that will be the best way to ensure that the cement industry is sustained”.

He added, “I mean after all, this industry creates jobs for several hundred thousands of people and so if they want to sustain business and continue to produce then there has to be a deliberate policy attempt to consume the cement that is produced”.

Those were last year figures

Kazikazi:
Tanzania has a huge informal sector than Ghana probably.But still our few middle class need better homes and better offices.Always,demand will bring supply.As u can google,Dar looks better than Accra. Our second largest city with a population of less than a million,Mwanza city( aka rock city) still looks better than Kumasi.
The question remain,where are Ghana's middle income dudes working from? Where are their offices and homes?
I should admit,I was shocked when I googled " Kumasi city". May be what I saw are photos of over 30 years back

then there is no demand for office spaces in Ghana because people already provide for themselves.

No city with underdeveloped social amenities in Tanzania looks better than anywhere in Ghana

rvp2018:
Maybe an investor looking for natural resources will consider Accra before Nairobi or Dar Slum. Otherwise an investor looking at other sectors of economy from real estate, finance, tech, industries, hotels, social amenities, transport, name it - Nairobi is so much ahead of any city in Ghana there is no point doing a comparison. Nairobi is already ahead of Lagos (despite the pop) - and is starting to compare with South African cities.

Something is wrong with Ghana statistics. If I have time - I can tell you - it easy to know if data has been cooked. You can ask Nigerians how we debunked most of their doggy stats. It easy to cross-reference with easily available international data that are outside your stats body.

lets go on the stats break down

because you can highly beat Ghana in the real estate sector, finance, industries, social amenities

samorobo:
I think you are speaking for yourself rather than the rest gh citizens....Look I am not telling you to build skyscraper or high rise , if you can make your mid rise building look so sophisticated and ultra modern then I am super fine with it...for instance no serious multi national will want their business in Accra because you lack grade A office spaces for such companies to operate......
Citizens building randomly is an error and it's happens even here in Nigeria...if such privileges should be granted to citizens let the govt create a body that monitors the standard of buildings you are putting up...

citizens are not just building randomly but according to plans
provided by each district.

Because of the lack of grade A offices
Multinationals prefer to provide for themselves and that is why they still choose Ghana.

rvp2018:
I doubt. Ghana and Nigeria have claimed since late 80s and 90s that their urbanization is 50% - I think the figure has hardly changed. The same with electricity access - although Ghana is now racing toward universal access.

China recently got to 50% urbanization. India urbanization is maybe around 35% now.

Maybe their is Ghana and Nigeria competition to produce dodgy stats.

China urbanization is 60%