₦airaland Forum

Remi, please preach to your husband first. Mental laziness is worst than physical laziness.

Geovanni412:
Common sense and logic has nothing to do with biblical arguments

God himself even stated that you cannot understand him because his ways are not your ways (Isaiah 55 verse eight)

If you can't understand something, how can you use logic or common sense to explain it?

Secondly, the book of Malachi is addressed specifically to the priests and not to the entire Israel. (Malachi 1:6)

Thirdly, you stated the entire old testament supports your view whilst excluding the provisions of Deuteronomy on tithing.

Does your Bible exclude Deuteronomy 14:22 ?

How did I exclude Deuteronomy 14:22.

There were three different kinds of tithes under the Old Testament

1. Tithes exclusively given to the Gentiles
2. Tithes eaten yearly as a feast.
3. Tithes shared with the poor, widows, orphans and strangers once in every three years.

God was not just talking to the Priest alone in Malachi even though they were specifically addressed. He also addressed the whole nation of Israel:

Malachi 3:8-9
8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.

9 Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even THIS WHOLE NATION.

Geovanni412:
Which biblical scholar told you Cain's gifts were rejected because of the size rather than because of his heart?

Cite one reference here

Also, 1 kings 3 said nothing about God being pleased with King Solomon because of the size of the offering.

Abel's offerings were the firstlings of his cattle. He gave God the first. Cain who was a farmer should have given God his first fruits but he just gave whatever he wanted. The first belongs to God.

If you have common sense, you should have known that God was touched by the one thousand burnt sacrifices King Solomon offered to God. No King and no one ever did that. There is power in quality sacrifices.

In Malachi, God rebuked the entire nation of Israel for robbing him in tithes and offerings.

In fact under the Old Testament, you don't give to God whatever you want to give. God himself tells you what to give. He specifies the quantity and the quality. The only time you are permitted to give whatever you choose is when it is free will offering.

Geovanni412:
And what is the result of them giving 50% of their income?

God does not look at how much you give but at your heart.

Prosperity has nothing to do with tithing or donating to the church

Arabs , atheists and freemasons are wealthy and they don't give tithes

If you want to give, give as you are led and not out of compulsion or necessity ,for God loves a cheerful giver.- 2 Corinthians 9:7-8

If God is not concerned about how much you give, why did he reject Cains offering?

Why did Jesus monitored how they gave their offerings on one occasion and made comments about it?

Why did God respond to King Solomons offering he gave in 1st Kings 3?

God is sure concerned about both what you give and the state of your heart

Geovanni412:
The problem here is you do not understand the history of tithe in Nigeria

Tithing is a recent practice developed by pentecostal ministries in Nigeria

Orthodox churches, like Methodist church of Nigeria did not collect tithe in Nigeria until the 1980's.

The Catholic church till date does not collect tithe in Nigeria

If tithing is essential to the financial foundation of a ministry, it would have been adopted much earlier in Nigeria

What tithing is in Nigeria is a perversion of the biblical principles. It is a symptom of the corrupt state of Nigeria.

An archbishop in Methodist church of blessed memory once told us ,'The church is filled with politicians..the only difference is they are playing in a different arena'.

Tithe is as old as the church. It’s not a new thing. 10% is not too much to support a good course like the gospel. If that was God's demand under the Old Testament to support the Levites, should we give less under the New Testament that we have his grace at work in us. So many give over 50% of their income for the gospel sake. And you are struggling to give 10%. You must be very stingy.

SocialJustice:
Eff of, go and sell your family to appease men in the name of God.

Keep your money. Those who love God don't struggle to support the work with 10%. After all, your government forces you to pay more as tax and you have never complained. They use your tax money to enrich themselves but you don't bother about it

Under the Old Testament, God mandated tithing primarily to ensure the Levites, who served full-time in the temple. A voluntary system of contributions might have left them struggling to meet their basic needs.

In the same way, many servants of God are serving in the house of God today, with most of them working full-time. Additionally, the church employs staff, many of whom are university graduates. How do you expect them to be paid if there isn't a structured system to fund their salaries?

Tithing is simply a matter of common sense. Just as the government collects taxes to maintain infrastructure, tithes are given to maintain the house of God and support those who work within it.

Do not undermine the church's financial foundation with anti-tithing teachings.

While it’s true that the New Testament does not explicitly command the collection of tithes, there is also no instruction to stop the practice.

In fact, Jesus gave the church authority to decide what it permits and forbids—Matthew 18:18.

Ironically, many who now preach against tithing built their ministries through it. Having established various investments that generate income, they seek to hinder younger ministries that still rely on this biblical principle.

One of the reasons God demanded tithe was to primarily sustain the Levites under the Old Testament is that if he ask the other tribes to just give whatever amount to support the Levites, they will go hungry serving the Lord.

In the same sense, there are so many servants of God serving in the house of God today most of which are on full time. In addition, the church employs staff most of which are university graduates. How to you expect them to be paid if there is not a structure to get funds for their salaries.

So, tithing is commonsense. Just the way government collect tax to maintain infrastructures, you pay tithe to maintain the house of God and sustain the workers in the house.

Don't weaken the church finance through anti tithe doctrines.

It's true that there are no explicit instructions given under the New Testament to collect tithe. There are also not a single instruction asking us to stop it.

In fact Jesus has given authority to the church to determine what it permits and what it does not permit - Matthew 18:18.

Most of the anti tithers built their ministries through it. And because they now have various investments that generates funds, they want to kill young ministries.

#stoptheantitithecampaign

Anti tithers can't answer my question. They are indirect agents of darkness with the intention of crippling the church finances

kingreign:
Give to the poor. He never instructed anybody to sell what they had or bring their fruits to fund the flamboyant lifestyles of rich prophets or Pastors or clergymen.

Good, are those condemning tithing practicing this instruction since they are looking for what is practiced in the New Testament?

I am amazed at those discouraging Christians from paying tithe on the ground that Jesus and his Apostles didn't collect tithe.

The teachings of our Lord Jesus on giving placed a demand on us far bigger than tithe. Tithing is 10% of your income or increase. But Jesus demanded 100% of not just our income but of our possessions.

Evidence No 1 - His encounter with the rich young ruler.

Mark 10:17-21.
17 And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?

18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is, God.

19 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother.

20 And he answered and said unto him, Master, all these have I observed from my youth.

21 Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, SELL WHATSOEVER THOU HAS, AND GIVE TO THE POOR, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.

Notice verse 21. He told the young rich man, "sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor". He didn't ask him for 10% of his income or resources. He asked him to sell all he had and give it to the poor.

The young rich ruler couldn't do it. Rather, he went away sad. He never Jesus was showing him the way to true riches. He would have become far richer than he was if he had obeyed.

It's true that the recipient of the giving wasn't the Pastors but the poor. If our Lord Jesus demanded such sacrifices for the poor, do you think he cares less for his ministers?

Another argument is that he wasn't talking to everyone. The second evidence will prove otherwise:

Evidence No 2

Luke 12:32-33
32 Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom.

33 SELL THAT YE HAVE, AND GIVE ALMS; provide yourselves bags which wax not old, a treasure in the heavens that faileth not, where no thief approacheth, neither moth corrupteth.

The instruction our Lord Jesus gave above was to his disciples. And that translates to us all for we have all become the disciples of Christ.

Evidence No 3 - The early church practiced it all two recorded occasions:

Acts 2:42-45
42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

43 And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles.

44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common;

45 And SOLD THEIR POSSESSIONS AND GOODS, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.

Second Occasion

Acts 4:32-35
32 And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.

33 And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.

34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were POSSESSIONS OF LANDS OR HOUSES SOLD THEM, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,

35 And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.

My question to those who condemn tithing is this, can they sell their possessions and drop the money at the feet of their Pastors so they can share to those in need? If the answer is no, they should all stop condemning those paying tithe.

My only counsel to churches that collect tithe is that they should remember the poor from time to time as it was done in the Old Testament.


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jaephoenix:
Psalm 47:7 ►
For God is the King of all the earth; sing to him a psalm of praise.
So who should I believe?

They are both correct.

In a moral sense, God is still the King of the earth. But in a legal sense, Satan is the god of this present world. But that would change very soon. As it is written:

Revelation 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The KINGDOMS OF THIS WORLD ARE BECOME THE KINGDOMS OF OUR LORD, AND OF HIS CHRIST; and he shall reign for ever and eve

buharibanjo:
Only the ignorant will vote for the same set of people

Well, they have a way to obtain power without your vote. But this must stop.

buharibanjo:
People in power saying sh*t everytime
Ok
It has saved money and killed people
So??

You stole my words. They have killed millions of Nigerians, still killing many more and turned countless millions into beggars. If you like vote these set of heartless leaders into power again.

Zonefree:
Shouldn't Bobrisky be rearrested and jailed for a longer sentence for evading her jail time?

What nonsense country is this?

It didn't start with Bobrisky. They should also jail those who subverted justice in the last election.

jaephoenix:
Its stated as Prince of this world, not god.
Btw, you answered one question and dodged the rest. Nice try

But 2nd Corinthians 4:4 calls him the god of this world. I am sure you read it.

NBA has lost his credibility long time ago and sealed it in the judgment given in the last election. So, they should hide their head in shame

jaephoenix:
WTF DID I JUST READ?
1. What do you mean the communication language changed? Be explicit
2. So satan is the god of this world and not Yahweh again? I hopes your fellow Christians won't stone you for this heresy. So Yahweh created Satan, gave him power, and lost control over him?
Btw, wasn't is Yahweh that actually told Satan to attack Job? It was clearly written there he taunted Satan to attack Job
3. Which fear? The verse you quoted said that Job was afraid of the future. This is the complete verse
"… have no peace, no quietness;
I have no rest, but only turmoil"

So stop twisting the story to suit your narrative

When I say communication language, I mean the manner and ways men of old understand things that affects the way they narrate their stories. Under the Old Testament, everything that happens, good or bad is assumed to come from God. This is why Job said, 'the Lord giveth and the Lord taketh, blessed be the name of the Lord "

You see how his belief affected his communication.

Concerning Satan being the god of this world, it's true. The scripture affirms it:

1st Corinthians 4:4.
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Our Lord Jesus called him the prince of this world thrice:

John 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.

John 14:30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.

John 16:11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

Satan got the legal right to rule this world when Adam committed high treason against God. And Jesus came as the last Adam to take it back.

Satan has been defeated but not yet dethroned.

jaephoenix:
Whether he came to Satan or Satan came to him, you know the point we made. Stop dancing around it

You are the one who doesn't understand spiritual principles.

oranget:
Do you mean "the Gospels" were written during the lifetime of Jesus Christ?

No, it was written after the death of Jesus. But it's about the ministry of Jesus carried out in the last years of the Old Testament. Most of the things Jesus said were directed to the Jews only.

Wainey:
delusional.
Satan could have power over you, not everyone.
But even if I have to choose between Devil and that ur war loving narcissistic villain called called God who will torment you for all eternity.
Bruh I'll chose satan

You didn't need to choose him. You already belong to him. The whole mankind was under his dominion because of the transgression of Adam. Jesus came to redeem us. So, only those in Christ are redeemed from the power of Satan.

oranget:
Wow, I didn't know Matthew was categorized under Old Testament until today, thank you for opening my eyes to see this truth.

Though it is contained in the New Testament section of the Bible, the New Testament started after the death and resurrection of Jesus.

Hebrew 9:17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

Wainey:
Bruh, I don't serve Satan.
That Satan is a character created by God in ur fictional story to torment only christians.
Atheists don't even give a fvck about satan

Anyone who does not believe in Jesus is a child of Satan and will end up in hell fire prepared for Satan.

You don't have the spiritual power to stop it. Satan has power of you. Only those in Christ are safe. Don't joke with your life.

OkCornel:
10% of what exactly did God ask for and from whom?

Don’t shy away from this please.

And why aren’t pastors preaching that it’s scriptural for tithers to eat their tithes as per Deuteronomy 14 v 22-26?

I have no qualms against freewill giving, but I surely have qualms with liars twisting the scriptures to manipulate people into monetary tithing as a requirement for gentile believers.

I started this thread by asking anyone to show me where we are commanded to give freewill offerings in the New Testament. No one has been able to show me.

My bone of contention is that those who say people should not pay tithe because it was not commanded should do the same for offerings.

Another bone of contention is you condemn tithe collection because there are no such instructions to receive tithe but you refuse to do that which is instructed. And it places a greater demand than tithing.

Concerning the issue of Pastors not preaching about tithe being eating, this is where I am going to. I am making my recommendations from the same view point. Hence, I mentioned administration.

In any case such eating of tithes or it being given to widows, orphans etc was done periodically. It wasn't all the time. It was once in every three years. And the one for feasting is done once in a year.

So, don’t create a picture as though tithes collected all the time was shared. It was still primarily for the Levites.

In conclusion, if you don't believe tithe should be collected, practice the one Jesus instructed us to do. Sell all your properties and help the poor. Why are you avoiding this instruction as though it's not in the Bible.

OkCornel:
No, we must discuss tithes. Pastors keep preaching that Christians should tithe.

So therefore;

1. Where did God request for money as tithes?
2. Why aren’t Pastors preaching that it’s scriptural for tithers to eat their tithe in Deuteronomy 14 v 22-29?
3. Where did God request tithes from gentile believers? Especially after how the crises in the early church was resolved in Acts 15.


When y’all ready to speak the truth and stop the manipulation let us know.

What I meant by saying we shouldn't talk about tithe is because it fall short of Christ expectations. Jesus says give 100% and you are three struggling with 10%. Don't you get it?

Wainey:
Bruh, I will not die and go to hell, that story is bullshit fabricated by the whites to keep Africans in fear with no form of retaliation.

Do you know that NASA won't employ anyone that is very religious, you can't pray when it is time for space exploration else you will be fired? The people who brought Christianity to you do not value christianity

You can't stop Satan from claiming your soul at death because you choose to serve him.

oranget:
You asked for NT Bible verse that supported tithing and I provided it.

New Testament started from Acts.

Jesus was still under the Old Testament when he carried out his ministry.

OkCornel:
Where did God request for monetary tithes from gentile believers?

Why don’t you guys always preach eating of tithes is scriptural? Deuteronomy 14 v 22-29

What Jesus instructed us to give puts a much higher demand than tithe. He demands us to give 100%. And Jesus is the mind of God. So, why would God frown at 10% when he actually demands we give 100% in the New Testament.

What we should be talking about is not tithing but the administration of it. Churches should plan a budget from it to support widows, orphans, fatherless and the poor brethren from time to time.

oranget:
Matthew 23:23
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Please, what Is the message you are trying to convey?

Janosky:
Awon

LYING illiterate pastor.

Why do you discredit John 5:37,43 & 1 Corinthians 15:45 you have labelled as "ranting"?

Deep down in your heart , you have no answer,no evidence to counter the holy scriptures.

I don't have any issue with the scriptures you quoted.

Jesus is a life giving Spirit because he gives eternal life to all who believe in him. But that doesn't mean he has no body after he rose from the dead. He told Thomas that he has flesh and bones. Haven't you read it?

Wainey:
So Satan can actually visit and dine with God and still they could bet on themselves using earthlings as the cost, and we that are his children have been calling him yet he is deaf to our prayers.
And yet we inherited Satan as an enemy of God? How impressive.
Fvck God and fvck Satan.

Calm down and get the true picture. At least, you agree with me that it was Satan who went to God.

In the things of the spirit, there are laws and God himself being just cannot violate that law.

Satan was formerly known as Lucifer in heaven before he fell and was cast down to earth.

He lost his exalted position in heaven but did not lose his influence or power he gained. But he has restrictions until he is finally judged.

In addition, Adam sold out his dominion to Satan when he ate the forbidden fruit. This is how Satan became the god of this world even till date. This even gave him more power and access to the presence of God.

By virtue of the power he gained from Adam, all mankind are under his power including Job.

But Job applied some spiritual principles that gave him protection. Job also foolishly exposed himself by walking in fear. So, it was this fear that gave access to Satan. God permitted it because He has no legal ground to stop Satan.

As for why God placed the forbidden tree in the Garden, man need to be tested. You don't build an educational institution without examination structure. Man will have to be tested to move up to higher level of maturity and trust. I believe that tree was for a purpose but the time hasn't come.

God would have permitted them to eat it when the time of judgment comes for Satan to be judged. If not, they won't understand the wrong Satan did.

Just calm down, I will answer all your questions.

If you don't, you will die and go to hell. And it will be regrets upon regrets

MaxInDHouse:
Guy what you people are referring to as rapture occurred in the year 1914.

No, it didn't. Why are you so brainwashed that you can't use your brain again? Let's look at the passages that talks about rapture and prove to me that all the events in that passage took place in 1914.

First Passage

1st Thessalonians 4:13-18
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Let's analyse Paul’s revelation about the rapture

1. God will bring those who slept in Jesus with Him. (verse 14.)
Those who slept in Jesus are those who died in Christ. Did they come with Jesus in 1914?

2. The Lord himself will descend with a shout and with the voice of the arch angel. (verse 16)
Give me evidence of shout heard in 1914.

3. And the dead in Christ will rise first (verse 16)
Did any dead in Christ rose from dead in 1914?

4. Those who will be alive will be caught up with the risen dead. (verse 17)

Verse 17 is what actually describes the phenomenon of rapture. We will be caught up. And the verse says we will be caught up together with those who rose from the dead.

Give me evidence of those caught up in 1914.

5. The raptured Saints will be in the presence of the Lord forever. Where is the Lord right now? In heaven. And the verse says that those raptured will be in heaven.

Please, address each points one by one.

Why not repent and deliver yourself from hell bound Jehovah Witness organisation.

Second Passage

1st Corinthians 15:51-54
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

Additional information from this passage is that we shall all be changed. Our bodies will be changed to imperishable bodies. Bodies that will not die.

Did this happen in 1914? Are there people who live on earth that do not die. Well, they will be in heaven. So, are there records of relatives missing in homes who went to heaven in 1914?

Please, none of these events happened in 1914. It is in the future and it could happen any moment from now.

Why not repent and be saved so you will be among those who will make the rapture.

After the rapture, there will be great tribulation on earth. And those who are not saved will be eternally doomed.