₦airaland Forum

Hairyrapunzel:
Even Churches that condemn immorality have tolerated religious leaders who have sexually abused children." The End of False Religion is Near! (2006) p.2


Even jws that condemn immorality have tolerated elders, ministerial servants who have sexually abused children.
Your religion is a false one.

Define tolerate. In my own opinion, anybody that advises a JW not to seek legal action in such case should be exposed and dealt with because he is going contrary to laid down laws, both Biblical and secular

Hairyrapunzel:
Loyalty to Jehovah God will also keep us from doing anything that would bring reproach upon his name and Kingdom. For example, two Christians once got into such difficulty with each other that they improperly resorted to a worldly law court. Certainly, the course of loyalty to Jehovah God is to suffer personal loss rather than bring reproach upon Jehovah and his organization." Watchtower 1996 Mar 15 p.15


In fact your leaders describe their members going to worldly law court as improper. Can you imagine?

.
You must be familiar with 1 Cor 6 vs 1 - 8
As you can see, child abuse is not one of those cases. It's a crime. And in fact you can pursue any normal case in court, if it is warranted

[b]At 1 Corinthians 6:1-8, the apostle Paul gave strong counsel that Christians should not take other Christians before secular courts to settle personal disputes that should be settled with the help of the congregation elders.—w97 3/15 pp. 21-22; w86 11/15 p. 20; g83 2/8 pp.13-15; w7311/15 pp. 703-704. ˙ If an individual ignores God’s Word on this matter, it may affect his congregation privileges. ˙ There is no difference between taking an individual brother or sister to court and taking to court a corporation whose owners are all Jehovah’s Witnesses. The spirit of 1 Corinthians 6: 1-8 would be violated by relying on the secular courts to settle business disputes among corporations that are made up entirely of brothers. 23. However, there are legal matters over which the congregation does not have authority and which may therefore be taken to a secular court for judgment without violating the principle or the spirit of 1 Corinthians 6:1-8. These include:

˙ Getting a divorce decree, child custody and support, alimony.

Obtaining insurance compensation.

If a person suffers loss or is injured in or by an automobile owned by a spiritual brother, it might be necessary legally to sue the brother in order to obtain compensation from the brother’s insurer. ˙

Being listed among creditors in bankruptcy procedures
.
˙ Probating wills. ˙

Certain countersuits. For example, if a worldly creditor sues a brother, it might be necessary for the brother, for his own protection, to file a countersuit even though spiritual brothers may be included in the action. ˙

If a brother takes legal action against another baptized Witness, it would not be a violation of 1 Corinthians 6:1-8 for the one being sued to defend himself or to countersue. This is true whether the matter was first taken before the elders or not.[/b]

Shepherd the Flock pg 133-134

Hairyrapunzel:
Baseless ke. Oya let's go there. You think because there is new light on the matter we have forgotten old light? Nope.


The Watchtower 1995 Nov 1 pp.28-9
"What Can Elders Do?

If the elders are approached by a member of the congregation who is experiencing flashbacks or repressed memories of child abuse, two of them are usually assigned to help. These elders should kindly encourage the afflicted one to focus for the time being on coping with the emotional distress. The names of any remembered abusers should be kept in strict confidence.

The elders primary task is to act as shepherds. (Isaiah 32:1,2; 1Peter 5:2,3) They should be especially careful to clothe [themselves] with the tender affections of compassion, kindness, lowliness of mind, mildness, and long-suffering. (Colossians 3:12) Let them listen in a kindly way and then apply healing words from the Scriptures. (Proverbs 12:18) Some who are afflicted with painful memories have expressed appreciation for elders who make regular visits or even telephone calls to check to see how they are doing. Such contacts need not take a lot of time, but they show that Jehovah's organization cares. When the afflicted one realizes that his Christian brothers truly love him, he may be helped to recover a considerable degree of emotional balance.

What if the sufferer decides that he wants to make an accusation? Then the two elders can advise him that, in line with the principle at Matthew 18:15, he should personally approach the accused about the matter. If the accuser is not emotionally able to do this face-to-face, it can be done by telephone or perhaps by writing a letter. In this way the one accused is given the opportunity to go on record before Jehovah with his answer to the accusation. He may even be able to present evidence that he could not have committed the abuse. Or perhaps the one accused will confess, and a reconciliation may be achieved. What a blessing that would be! If there is a confession, the two elders can handle matters further in accordance with Scriptural principles.

If the accusation is denied, the elders should explain to the accuser that nothing more can be done in a judicial way . And the congregation will continue to view the one accused as an innocent person. The Bible says that there must be two or three witnesses before judicial action can be taken. (2 Corinthians 13:1; 1 Timothy 5:19) Even if more than one person remembers abuse by the same individual, the nature of these recalls is just too uncertain to base judicial decisions on them without other supporting evidence. This does not mean that such memories are viewed as false (or that they are viewed as true). But Bible principles must be followed in establishing a matter judicially.

What if the one accused though denying the wrong doing is really guilty? Does he get away with it, as it were? Certainly not! The question of his guilt or innocence can be safely left in Jehovah's hands. The sins of some men are publicly manifest, leading directly to judgment, but as for other men their sins also become manifest later. (1Timothy 5:24; Romans 12:19; 14:12) The book of Proverbs says: The expectation of the righteous ones is a rejoicing, but the very hope of the wicked ones will perish. When a wicked man dies, his hope perishes. (Proverbs 10:28; 11:7) Ultimately, Jehovah God and Christ Jesus render everlasting judgment in justice. 1 Corinthians 4:5."

Where did it say that it should not be taken to the authorities? And it rightly says that evidence must be prevented. If the accusation is denied, there is nothing that can be done in a JUDICIAL way. That means do not expect the person to be disfellowshipped when the matter has not been proven. You can pursue it legally. Even before taking it to the authorities, you MUST have evidence

TATIME:
That is why i always want to avoid him because i don't think a person who formerly agreed to the terms and conditions of a group only to turn against such group when the same terms and conditions are applied in his case is worth being a neighbour talkless a friend!
I was a Muslim before i started studying with Jehovah's Witnesses,i took my time to ask CRITICAL questions with all strictness to be sure of what this group believes and at the end of each study i keep asking myself "o boy can you stand this?" so my study took me over two decades with numerous conductors before i finally succumb to becoming one of Jehovah's Witnesses. So NO MATTER what the organization says i'm OK with it because i've made the TRUTH my own,therefore if anyone wants to say something that will change my resolve to remain ever loyal to the teaching of the GB, all i will continue asking such a person is "PRESENT,SHOW,POINT,DIRECT,TELL me another group that is meeting up with the high standard of JWs?
To me it's rather better to be dead than being a fugitive! I think that's why this Hairyrapunzel of a guy can't rest again, he has gone round but can't find any other group that's worth the JWs so out of spite he is killing himself with bitterness everyday instead of simply erasing the memories of JWs! This he can't do because deep down in him he knows that he can NEVER find another loving group and he does not want to humble himself to be welcome back into the fold. Hebrews 10:26,27

Your experience is inspiring. Even as a P.O's son that year, nobody rushed my baptism. Even after baptism I had to study Keep Yourselves In God's Love for almost 2 years after it was just newly released.Most of them should know that they should sit down and critically think for theirself whether it is the truth. No one would put his hand to the plow and go back.That's why when I see those 8 year olds and 10 year olds getting baptized, I just wonder whether they have enough knowledge to stand on their own when some of them have not even entered secondary school, talkless of when they are on their own

My brother, have a lovely night!

Hairyrapunzel:
Is this not your secret book? I thought it's for elders eyes only?

You won't respond to what I said. Of course! I expected it
When people like you make baseless claims and say that only elders have the information, you expect me to swallow it. I'm not gullible. Most of you rely on hearsay instead of personal experiences.

Hairyrapunzel:
So the date setter is now your problem abi? Lol
The date setter is dead.
If it's to agree that your gb are the only channel of communication between God and man today because they told you so you will agree and say its shows you are united.
Christians picked DEC 25 to celebrate the birth of Jesus Christ every year you come dey vex. Abeg leave us in our united date.

Who told you its not possible? Lol
There are 365 days in a year and 366 days in a leap year. He must have been born on one of those days. Dec 25th is one of those days. Take heart you hear.

There is no reasonable Christian that would say that Christ was born on December 25th. I don't have to go on and on about the proof; I'm sure you already know that....

United indeed Some celebrate on 24th, some celebrate on January 7th, some January 19th....All in an effort to do what is not required of them. What the tree too has to do with Christmas, I don't know

Anyway, continue in whatever way you deem fit

achorladey:
lordtim001: I have DIFFERENT OPINIONS about a lot of THINGS, but I won't shove it down other PEOPLE'S THROATS.

Achorladey: Fine point by you, the account of the scriptures below is in line with whatever I highlighted up there.

Romans 14:1 Welcome the man having WEAKNESSES in his faith, but do not pass JUDGMENT on DIFFERING OPINIONS.

lordtim001: You should not use them to CAUSE SECTS and DIVISIONS. Same thing that happened in the 1st century. Those causing those divisions were promptly removed.

Achorladey: initially when you mentioned my name on this thread, I said I don't know where you are coming from or heading to about your EASTER palaver from KJV. blah blah blah. Look at where you have arrived at the moment, the thread has been extended by another 3 pages all on the basis of wanting to either show the rightness or wrongness of DIFFERING OPINIONS. As it is you are heading towards DIVISIONS and SECTS.

Romans 14 is still there to read up.

Good. That's why it's reasonable that we do not want divisions among Witnesses. They should be united. If you want to cause a division, take it elsewhere. I'm talking to non-JWs. I expect you to have a different opinion (else you would be a JW). That's why it has extended 3 pages. Or you expect me and another JW to be going head to head?

Hairyrapunzel:
You don't know wedding anniversary was a pagan celebration lol.
There is a special date set aside for it that's DEC 25th.
You that told me a special day I took for celebration is paganic in nature lol. You are the person judging us o. You are now saying we are judging you. Lol
Lol. Delusion of persecution.

Is it not you that brought easter matter out? You brought Christmas and birthday celebrations out. Na you start the talk.
You wanted to discredit us with using fallacies.
Now you are crying wolf. Lol

Who set the date aside? I thought you had independent thinking
It's funny that the day Christians choose to celebrate Jesus is the same day that the birth of a deluge of other gods are celebrated. Shebi na Catholics set the date? Set another date as a Protestant or Pentecostal na....But nah, you won't. I cited a case of stumbling as a good reason. But I guess it doesn't apply....I guess I should also join along in singing hymns that blatantly state that Jesus was born on December 25th when it's not possible.

Hairyrapunzel:
They disfellowshipped me because I am of the school of thought that rape issues should be reported to police instead of your religious legal department.
I don't believe gb is the only channel of communication between God and man today because they always change their beliefs. They are confused.
I also don't agree with their discouraging independent thinking. I think God put brains for us to think for ourselves instead of gb thinking for us.

Who said that rape and child molestation cases should not be reported to the police? Are you giving us all the facts in this case? If what you are saying is the truth, then you should know that you can request for an appeal hearing from another congregation or even another circuit. Let's hear the truth, please.

Deadlytruth:
While I don't know how Christmas celebration could become a cause for stumbling, I know the Bible says as follows:
Romans 14: 5-6 - Some people think that a certain day is more important than other days, while others think that all days are the same. We each should firmly make up our own minds. 6. Those who think highly of a certain day do so in honor of the Lord; those who will eat anything do so in honor of the Lord, because they give thanks to God for the food. Those who refuse to eat certain things do so in honor of the Lord, and they give thanks to God.



quote author=lordtim001 post=75858168]
Encyclopedias generally contain a wealth of information. Why should I not consult them? How did hairyrapunzel know that the Tetragrammaton is not in the New Testament?
Hairyrapunzel didn't quote encyclopedia to validate any verse in the Bible. She quoted it to counter a claim of yours from another secular source. No true Christian seeks validation of the word of God through the writings of men

quote author=lordtim001 post=75858168]
And did Paul tell them to worship God through that same altar? He only used it express a point that they should broaden their minds to the possibility that there is another God that they do not know, which is the one true God.
In 2 Kings 23, worship of God resumed in the temple and on the very altars polluted with idols after Josiah cleared those idols and gods.
Also, God later came to be worshipped on Mount Zion after the original inhabitants (the idolatrous jebussites) and their idols had been cleared off it.

quote author=lordtim001 post=75858168]
Last last, everywhere we have good Christians. Because they do not make the news does not mean there are no good people being persecuted to the point of even having to lose their jobs.
Job loss as punishment for staying true to religious principle is a civil service feature. People in elective offices also stand firm and make a difference. Daniel, Shadrach, Meshach and Abegnego were political appointees who made a difference.
quote author=lordtim001 post=75858168]
We repeatedly hear that politics is a dirty game. How many of them are pagans? It's the same people that profess to be true Christians or good Muslims that are still making things worse... They also say Power corrupts and Absolute power corrupts absolutely
Even within Christian gatherings, power corrupts. Should that therefore be taken as that leadership with the Christian fold is bad and should be avoided?
Please name just one secular human affair which is not a dirty game with corruptive influences? Is it sports, business, indoor games, use of electronic gadgets and internet, working in the private sector, etc? The world as a whole is dirty hence all it takes is to distinguish oneself regardless of the sector in which one finds himself.

I'm not saying celebrating Christmas could cause stumbling. I'm talking about the date you chose. That's why I asked you whether you can celebrate your Christmas on a day asides December 25th.

At least, God gave them the go ahead to continue the worship in that same temple. They didn't presumptuously go ahead and do it.

Daniel was appointed, right? He became chief of the wise men. Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego had administrative duties. Similar to civil service duties.But did their positions directly involve political affairs? Think about it

Christians work in every sector and they must strive to distinguish themselves. I agree with you on that

Crysthaniel:
BRO greetings to you..
this guy 'hairyrap' has been disfellowshiped from the Christian congregation of Jehovah's witnesses..
you need not to engage with him..

Hmmmm. I think say na woman before sef. And did he tell you that he was disfellowshipped? If it's true, then that's a big hmmmmmm. One thing I have noticed with ex jws on many platforms is that most of them are seriously pained. They get disfellowshipped for fornication or some other reasons bordering on immorality. Then AFTER they have been disfellowshipped, they wake up and realize that they have been following "false" doctrines all the while. Lol. Jehovah help us

Greetings to you too, my brother.

Hairyrapunzel:
Wedding anniversaries I repeat wedding anniversaries are pagan in origin.

You have now changed it to paganic in nature lol.

How is celebration of jesus Christ birthday or his resurrection paganic in nature?

I should not compare bible times to now yet Pharaoh and herod celebraing birthdays was in bible times too and you capitalise on that to propagate your doctrine.

Jews today celebrate birthdays because they have calendar, Christians today celebrate Christmas and easter and not a pagan practice. So why judge people for doing things bible was silent about?

Did any pagan celebrate wedding anniversaries?
And you guys did not answer the question. Can you wake up tomorrow and announce to your neighbors that you want to celebrate Christmas tomorrow? I'm not judging anybody o. Na una dey judge us because you feel that we are forming holier than thou by not joining you in your celebrations....By the way, I celebrate Jesus everyday and I don't need keep celebrating his posthumous birthday for 2000 years. He is a mighty King ruling in heaven now.

Hairyrapunzel:
How is your nwt and watchtower magazine a translation of the bible?
Hypocrisy.
Your leaders told you that you don't even need to read the Bible as reading only their magazines/publications is enough.

Your gb that shoves their teaching down their members throats Nko?

Hypocrisy at it's peak.

The NWT is a translation of what Koran or Hadith abi Torah?
Oyakilohme has Rhapsody of Realities. Many other churches have their own Bible based bulletin. Their members do not read them? Many Witnesses have a regimen of daily Bible reading. In fact, for us to give comments at every mid-week meeting, we have to read a given number of chapters from the Bible and bring out comments that teaches us about Jehovah or generally upbuilding comments

Hairyrapunzel:
David was required to supply the foreskins of 200 slain Philistines as a dowry to King Saul (1 Sam 18:27). Pharaoh killed the inhabitants of Gezer and gave the city as a wedding gift to his daughter, Solomon's wife. (1 Kings 9:16 NIV).

Servants of God used evil deeds as their wedding gift.
Also, no servant of God in the Bible celebrated wedding anniversary. Check the Bible.

We did not say weddings we said wedding anniversary.
At least servants of God celebrated births why won't we celebrate birth anniversary (birthday)

Since according to you servant of God celebrated wedding that means they celebrated wedding anniversary then we can say servants of God celebrated births so they celebrated birthdays.

You think say na only you sabi twist wetin person talk. Typical jw way.

How many JWs celebrate their anniversaries My parents were married for 25 years before death ended the union and they didn't celebrate it once. Some people may still celebrate it, so it's their choice. At least, it's not paganic in nature. There is no record of any pagan celebrating their wedding anniversary. Birthdays were celebrated by pagans and there is no record of any servant of God celebrating them....

And do you want to compare Bible times to now? . Why don't you conquer unbelieving countries? Do you offer sacrifices? Does it mean that people still do such barbaric things as wedding customs?

Hairyrapunzel:
Which bible do they use? Is it not nwt? Written by their leaders and approved by their leaders?
Keep discrediting Mormons when you do the same thing they do. Hypocrisy.


Mormons get their bible you people have your Bible too. Your Bible that inserted jehovah 237 times in the new testament where it was never mentioned nko? Abegi

Is it not based on a speculation/assumption of early bible writers removing jehovah? All these ones no proof o. Abegi.

Preaching with only the Bible is not the same as using only the Bible o. For interpretation of your Bible you need your magazines. Have you forgotten your leaders telling you to desist from interpreting the Bible on your own?

Have you forgotten that your leaders told you that they alone have the gift of the holy spirit for interpreting the scriptures?

Have you forgotten that your leaders told you that they are the only channel of communication between God and man today?

Mtcheww

Book of Mormon is not a translation of the Bible na
Its completely different. They say it is a revelation by their prophet, Joseph Smith. And by the way, JW publications explain teachings for one reason. So that there will be unity in teaching. And nobody told you that you cannot have different opinions. I have different opinions about a lot of things, but I won't shove it down other people's throats. You should not use them to cause sects and divisions. Same thing that happened in the 1st century. Those causing those divisions were promptly removed.

Deadlytruth:
Neither does anyone worship Easter eggs and bunnies in their use for celebrating Easter. By the way God created all those things originally but pagans only abused them and directed their use for the worship of idols. Why should we now surrender them to those idols in the name of "They are paganistic in origin"? Their genuine origin is from God who created them and not the pagans who only abused their purposes. So nothing is really wrong in redirecting their use back to the one who really created them.
The name 'Zion' meant a pagan fortress of protection...more or less a pagan god of protection. But it the genuine God of protection adopted it eventually. Likewise, in Acts 17:23-25, Paul found in Athens a temple dedicated to an unknown god i.e. one of their idols which they believed they were yet to identify. However, Paul in his speech redirected them to the real God through the use and adoption of that unknown idol (i.e.as God) to whom that pagan temple was dedicated. In the next verses he explainef to them that the whole world including that temple and the material of which that unknown god might be made were all created by the true God. Do we now say Paul was guilty of using an entity rooted in paganism and idolatry to represent the Almighty God? Never! His intention was to bring them all to the knowledge of the true God, hence it is intention of use of any object that matter and not the origin of it.
I myself am just hearing of bunnies and
Easter eggs in all my over 40 years on earth. I have always celebrated Easter by simply going for church service and visiting orphanages and prisons with gifts and sermons because my intention about it is to propagate Jesus as the Messiah and not to worship any idol connected with its origin.
Nobody worships Santa Claus either. It is now just a human figure who gives gifts to children in reminiscence of the wise men who offered gold, myrrh and franckisense to Jesus on his birth which Christmas itself commemorates.
If God had felt we needed extrabiblical sources, one of which is encyclopediae, to fully understand his words, then He wouldn't have told us not to go beyond what is written in the Bible. Moreover, human records of history are mostly contradictory hence can't really be relied upon to establish the veracity of the words of an infallible and omnipotent God. We are meant to read the Bible and accept its contents by faith which is the most central issue in Christianity.
Well, you can't really separate the civil service from politics as the laws establishing it makes it an institution statutorily loyal to the interest of elected politicians. As a permanent secretary in a ministry you must sign checks by which the politician in power would procure weapons for tuggery during elections, offer bribes to the courts to pervert justice, etc.
It is even easier to make a difference in an elected office than in the civil service. As an elected politician to an office you can refuse to compromise without any consequences since only those who elected you can remove you. But in the civil service you are under an authority which can victimize you for staying true to principles and persecute you into compromise.

Over 40 years Wow!
Daddy, I have one question. Can you choose any day to celebrate that Easter? Can you choose to celebrate Christmas on another day asides December 25th? After all, the Bible repeatedly says that we should keep from becoming causes for stumbling

Encyclopedias generally contain a wealth of information. Why should I not consult them? How did hairyrapunzel know that the Tetragrammaton is not in the New Testament? And did Paul tell them to worship God through that same altar? He only used it express a point that they should broaden their minds to the possibility that there is another God that they do not know, which is the one true God.

Last last, everywhere we have good Christians. Because they do not make the news does not mean there are no good people being persecuted to the point of even having to lose their jobs. We repeatedly hear that politics is a dirty game. How many of them are pagans? It's the same people that profess to be true Christians or good Muslims that are still making things worse... They also say Power corrupts and Absolute power corrupts absolutely

Hairyrapunzel:
You people use watchtower publication, nwt (bible made for your religion by your leaders) as your guide Nko? Has anyone killed or faulted you?
You want to condemn Mormon yet you are guilty of the same thing.

Did your governing body not tell you that you can't study the Bible alone? That you must study with their interpretation (magazines)?

Lol. If any Mormon comes to your door, does he/she open the Bible? If JWs come to your door, what do they use? And in case you do not know, we don't give out magazines like before. We preach with ONLY the Bible. If someone then wants a Bible Study after two/three return visits, we could choose a book to study. Nevertheless, some people also ask for Bible discussions without any publication. That's the difference. Just like Muslims that tell you that they believe in Jesus, but they discredit the Bible and say that it is incomplete or a book of confusion

Hairyrapunzel:
“A main concern is, not what the practice meant hundreds of years ago, but how it is viewed today in your area. Understandably, opinions may vary from one place to another. Hence, it is wise to avoid turning such matters into big issues.” Awake! 2003 Sep 22 pp.23-24

So your jehovah told you that since wedding ring is of pagan origin but not directly involved in pagan worship you should wear abi?

Easter and easter eggs and bunnies are not the same and have never been the same. Don't come and give us toxic stuff. In a bid to discredit easter you mention easter eggs and bunnies haba. Jw and their cunning ways.

Goddess eostre and easter are not the same thing. Christians don't use easter eggs or bunnies. If you don't know don't comment and keep quiet about it.

Christians celebrate Christmas (birth of their savior jesus christ) and don't celebrate Santa Claus get your facts right.

So you want to force Valentine into our worship abi? Lol.



Almost everything is pagan. Pagans have done virtually everything we do, including most of what you Jehovah’s Witnesses do day-to-day such as bathing, eating, drinking, and working.
Your life is filled with pagan practice, such as the wearing of neckties and perfume, celebrations with piñatas, flying of kites, and even use of the calendar, which is named after Roman Gods.

Weddings are laden in paganism, including the ceremony, cake, dress, burning of candles and the wedding ring.


The giving of wedding presents is accompanied by murder in the Bible. David was required to supply the foreskins of 200 slain Philistines as a dowry to King Saul (1 Sam 18:27). Pharaoh killed the inhabitants of Gezer and gave the city as a wedding gift to his daughter, Solomon's wife. (1 Kings 9:16 NIV).

Do you people not accept wedding gifts? Abeg park well. You want to discredit Christianity. Your jehovah loves cherry picking sha or rather your gb cos your invisible jehovah doesn't have mouth or hands to talk or to write.

At least it is stated that SERVANTS of God celebrated weddings and gave wedding gifts, right? Did they celebrate Christmas, birthdays and Easter? Before you mention Job's children, even the Bible does not mention that it is their birthday that they celebrated. It only mentioned their day. It could be that they had a schedule for flexing.Still after everything, Job still offered sacrifices on their behalf. That shows us that even a normal celebration needs to be done in moderation. And MAYBE Jesus forgot to celebrate his birthday or maybe it would disturb his ministry
You still have not answered the question. What does Santa have to do with Christmas? I didn't say you are celebrating Santa. But the same things that pagans did, you also do them. You say eggs represent Jesus ressurection. Fine!!! Who told them to paint those same eggs? You are doing exactly the same thing the pagans do in their WORSHIP. Well, everyone has their freedom

Deadlytruth:
But don't you think that you people's use of Encyclopediae and other human sources of knowledge in defending your beliefs actually makes you guilty of going beyond what is written in the Bible?
1 Corinthians 4:6-7 didn't say anything in relation to your claim above. Here it is:
For your sake, my friends, I have applied all this to Apollos and me, using the two of us as an example, so that you may learn what the saying means, *Observe the proper rules.* None of you should be proud of one person and despise another. 7. Who made you superior to others? Didn't God give you everything you have? Well, then, how can you boast, as if what you have were not a gift?


Let us take weddings for example of an event which is not shed in negative light in the Bible; the scriptures make it clear that weddings in biblical times were never conducted inside the temple but in the homes of the groom. The one attended by Jesus in Cana of Galilee is a prominent example. Jesus' parable of the man who celebrated his son's wedding in his own house was yet another evidence.
The conduct of wedding inside worship places originated from among pagans. But today JWs too conduct their weddings inside their worship houses? And you tell me you avoid practices with paganistic roots?
And do you think there is really any modern secular practice today not rooted directly or indirectly in paganism?
The exchange of wedding rings is paganistic in origin just like the wearing of white flowing gown by the bride. But you JWs don't forbid these in your weddings despite being 'aversed' to things rooted in pagan traditions.




Before the Isreaelites did that in Exodus 32:5, God had already told them in Exodus 20:3 not to do such so they weren't ignorant as you would have us believe. Moreover they described the calf as god not God. The mere fact that they even made an image onto themselves at all against one of the Ten Commandments already given them is enough evidence that they contravened a very clear instruction which they weren't ignorant of.
Like I have already explained with the name 'Zion' which origin is paganistic but is now used by God and Jesus to connote their faithful servants, the intention behind the use of anything is more important than its origin.
Do you know that intramural system of education is paganistic in origin as it was the system by which pagan tribes taught their newly recruited soldiers the art of war and the effective use of weapons in preparation for wars? It was later spread to cover non-military professions like Engineering, Medicine, Accountancy, etc. JWs receive education through intramural system (i.e. schools) today and bag from them degrees with which they fend for themselves despite that system has its origin rooted in paganism.


There is also political appointment which is not civil service appointment but a reward for partisan political participation. It is like being appointed as minister of finance.
Those brethren who were part of the Emperor's palace in Philipians 4:22 could not have been civil servants going by what it means to be part of or to belong to a government.


Jesus'rejection of the offer doesn't translate to an instruction against political participation. His acceptance would have jeopardized his mission to die for sins. Are other Christians on earth to die for sins too? Just like how Jesus decision to have got married would have derailed his mission, but that doesn't automatically translate to marriage being wrong for Christians.



Jesus would himself later clarify this issue of His (in the sense of Him alone) kingdom being not of this world when in response to his disciples question about the restoration of the earthly Israelite Kingdom to them, he assured them of the time when the Father would answer their prayers.


That is an assumption not a truth.
And you think any human affair is worth participating in if we are to use your assumption of their corruptive influences? Even the civil service is more corrupt than partisan politics. In fact the civil service, by its very nature and the laws guiding it, is an institution that statutorily works for politicians and defends their interests. So on what premise would you separate the two?

Even the civil service among whom there are JWs and their congratulation leaders is bashed as the engine room of corruption in Nigeria and is generally perceived worldwide as an establishment in which you can't work and still serve God conscientiously.

Without the Encyclopedia, most of us would not know the history of some things

I am deliberately not going to give you the NWT rendering.1 Cor 4 vs 6,7 in Douay Rheims version : But these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollo, for your sakes; that in us you may learn, *that one be not puffed up against the other for another, above that which is written.* [7] For who distinguisheth thee? Or what hast thou that thou hast not received? And if thou hast received, why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it?

Now concerning paganism....If we say we want to abstain from anything pagan, we would be deceiving ourselves. Our calendar months, days of the week were all created by pagans. Likewise your Zion example. But we would stay away from them only if it has something DIRECTLY to do with PAGAN WORSHIP. Wedding rings do not involve worship directly. Because they were used by pagans first does not mean I cannot use them anymore. But consider things like Easter eggs and bunnies. They are the sign of fertility of the goddess Eostre. So why do Christians use it during Easter? After all, you want me to believe that they are completely different. Or relationship does Santa Claus have to do with celebrating the birth of Christ? Or what does wearing red have to do with Valentine?

Concerning civil service, many of these same Witnesses are changing the norms. One of them I know personally is the head of the WDC Ijaiye, but her juniors have bigger houses and cars. She doesn't have to bend for others. And the position is not political.
Did you ever ask yourself whether Matthew that was a close disciple of Jesus, continued his tax collector duties? I guess it should all be left to conscience. But personally, I cannot involve myself in politics. Whether JW or not. I know many non-Jws who share the same sentiment

Deadlytruth:
Misunderstanding of the scriptures is what brings about unscriptural doctrines.
If none of your doctrines is unscriptural, then why do they get discarded over time and entirely new ones erected in their replacement?
The current doctrine that Christians are not to celebrate certain festivals are no where in the scriptures. I haven't seen where Jesus said we must not celebrate the anniversaries of His birth or death. I don't know of any scripture that forbids celebration of birthdays. All I keep hearing is that one encyclopedia says they are rooted in paganism.
But then a lot of things which God Himself used to showcase Himself were of pagan origins. For example, the name "Zion" was given to the mountain by the original pagan inhabitants of the land in dedication to their pagan god. However God later occupied the mountain as His dwelling place while retaining the pagan name Zion and had His sacred temple erected right on it. This is a proof of the belief of other Christians that the intention and new meaning behind any adopted practice is more important than its origin.

Also, the doctrine that forbids political participation by Christians is very unscriptural and outrightly man made.
In Rom. 16:23-24 Paul addressed Erastus as a fellow believer despite Erastus held a political office of City Treasurership within the government of an earthly kingdom.
In Philippians 4:22 Paul sent greetings to brethren who belonged to the Emperor's palace. To belong to a palace was to hold a political office in an earthly government.
In Acts 1:6 the disciples demanded of Jesus to know when the earthly kingdom of Israel would be restored for self governance. By that they were showing interest in how they were being politically governed. But rather than rebuke them, Jesus even assured them of a time when their political aspirantion would be fulfilled by God himself.
Now, with all the scriptural records above, how can it really be defended that the Bible is against Christian participation in politics?
I can list very many of your unscriptural doctrines and provide evidence from the scriptures. But I wait for you to address these ones first.

1 Corinthians 4 vs 6 and 7 tells us not to go beyond what is written. And we take this into consideration. Even when celebrating things that were not shed in negative light in the Bible, we make sure that they are free of any paganic influence. What you do not know is that some of these celebrations are deeply rooted in paganism. And God would not excuse ignorance. After all, He was still vexed despite the fact that the Israelites called the worship of the calf a festival to Jehovah at Exodus 32 vs 5. We know how that story ended

City treasurership was not an elected position. It is an appointed position. I know many Witnesses who are civil servants above level 12. They work in the government office but they weren't elected.This does not apply in this case. At John 6 vs 5, Jesus ran away when they wanted to make him king. You may argue that he avoided them because he would be straying away from his purpose of coming to the earth. But he later said that his Kingdom is no part of this world. Truth be told, the spirit of politics is one that a true Christian would stay away from. That's why you see people repeatedly lashing Osinbajo. Instead of pleasing God, he has to please people....

Hairyrapunzel:
Lol continue assuming. I am sure the same Thomas nelson also told you the Greek word pascha means Easter and passover.
At least the pascha is easter that's OK for me. It's not like some people that put a word where it's never seen. No Greek word for jehovah in the new testament yet they assumed and put it where it is never seen.

Sorry, the publisher's name is M.G Easton not Thomas Nelson

Hairyrapunzel:
In an experience of a Mormon that converted to being a Jehovah's Witness, it is ironic that one of his reasons was:
"I dug deeper into the teachings of my faith and also consulted with responsible Mormon Church leaders. I was told that the answers to my questions involved mysteries that one day would be solved as the light became brighter." Watchtower 2013 Feb 1 p.9


Tell me," he asked, "how can I have confidence in anything? How can I believe in the Bible, in God, or have faith? Just ten years ago we Catholics had the absolute truth, we put all our faith in this. Now the pope and our priests are telling us this is not the way to believe any more, but we are to believe 'new things.' How do I know the 'new things' will be the truth in five years?"" Awake! 1970 Apr 22 p.8


Satan, who pretends to be “an angel of light,” has made clever use of false religion in misleading people. (2 Cor. 11:14) Under the guise of Christianity, Christendom teaches doctrines—including the Trinity, hellfire, and immortality of the soul—that are awash in myths and falsehoods. Christendom also promotes holidays, such as Christmas and Easter, whose seemingly innocent customs are actually rooted in mythology and paganism." (Watchtower 7/15/2011, p. 17 par. 11 Will You Heed Jehovah’s Clear Warnings?)

When you promote your doctrines not in the Bible which would later change you will say new light


When you preach false doctrines which are not even seen in the Bible and you are not sure of you will say god will make the teaching clear in due time


For the most part, the religions of Christendom have ignored the hope of everlasting life on earth. Whereas the Bible teaches that the soul dies, the majority of churches teach the unscriptural doctrine that man has an immortal soul that survives death and lives on in the spirit realm." (Watchtower 8/15/2009, p. 3 par. 2 Everlasting Life on Earth—A God-Given Hope)

Your unscriptural blood transfusion ban isn't considered false doctrine by your Leaders. Lol


On the other hand, Christendom deserves the coming destruction for contributing to the spiritual illiteracy common among churchgoers and for its manifest hatred of God’s name." (Watchtower 1/15/2011, p. 4 par. 9 “Take Refuge in the Name of Jehovah”)


the execution of divine judgment upon the apostate kingdom of Israel makes it certain that God will bring destruction upon Christendom, the most reprehensible part of “Babylon the Great,” the world empire of false religion." (Watchtower 11/15/2004, p. 19 par. 20, Jehovah’s Judgment Will Come Against the Wicked)


[b]Christ’s “presence” since 1914 [/b]has gone unnoticed by most of earth’s inhabitants. (2 Pet. 3:3, 4) Soon, however, he will make his presence manifest by executing Jehovah’s judgments on the various elements of Satan’s system of things. The destruction of “the man of lawlessness,” the clergy of Christendom, will be an unmistakable “manifestation of his presence.” (Watchtower 9/15/2010, p. 28 par. 13 Our Active Leader Today)

Unscriptural beliefs.

I must hand it to you. You are very dedicated in researching things. But I put it to you that you cannot bring out one single doctrine that is not supported by scripture. The only thing you can say that I will agree to is that misunderstanding of scriptures occur at times. The point is that there IS a scripture in the first place that enforces that thought

And we know that Mormons discredit the Bible but rely on Joseph Smith's Book of Mormon as their guide.

And sorry, my laptop is not with me, otherwise I would have pulled out that 1970 Awake from WT Library to read more about it. I'm really interested....Who was speaking there? And can I get the full article if possible

Hairyrapunzel:
First, since "oneness" is to be observed, a mature Christian must be in unity and full harmony with fellow believers as far as faith and knowledge are concerned. He does not advocate or insist on personal opinions or harbor private ideas when it comes to Bible understanding. Rather, he has complete confidence in the truth as it is revealed by Jehovah God through his Son, Jesus Christ, and "the faithful and discreet slave." By regularly taking in the spiritual food provided "at the proper time"-through Christian publications, meetings, assemblies, and conventions-we can be sure that we maintain "oneness" with fellow Christians in faith and knowledge.-Matthew 24:45. Watchtower 2001 Aug 1 p.14


We also remember that one feature of 'the wisdom from above' is being 'ready to obey.' Due to background and upbringing, some may be more given to independent thinking and self-will than others. Perhaps this is an area where we need to discipline ourselves and 'make our mind over' so that we can perceive more clearly what the 'will of God' is." Watchtower 1987 Feb 1 p.19


Beware of those who try to put forward their own contrary opinions." Watchtower 1986 Mar 15 p.17

The point is that Christians have implicit trust in their heavenly Father; they do not question what he tells them through his written Word and organization." Watchtower 1974 Jul 15 p.441


If we have love for Jehovah and for the organization of his people we shall not be suspicious, but shall, as the Bible says, 'Believe all things,' all the things that the Watchtower brings out" Qualified to be Ministers (1955) p.156


Am I a zombie that will swallow everything some human beings tell me hook line and sinker because these human beings told me to swallow it like that?
I no be zombie I no be mumu I no be robot.

I have never seen those articles before, but thanks for showing them to me. I am also independent in thinking. There are many things I do not also agree with, and I hope clarity comes or at least, they accept the faults

Hairyrapunzel:
Lol. It was a disfellowshipping offence. Don't come here to lie. Vaccination, organ transplant and blood fractions were disfellowshipping offences. Watchtower said it was cannibalism. You want to blame other people for your leaders errors. Which all. Jehovah witnesses believed that they were more dangerous than beneficial because their leaders told them so.

Don't come and act like it's the people that deceived your leaders. It's the other way round. Think of people who died as a result of not taking blood fractions before they became a conscience matter they died for nothing.

You people can pride yourselves on taking blood fractions gotten from blood donated by non jws whereas you people say donating blood is not good and a disfellowshipping offence. Hypocrites.

You guys criticize Catholics or Mormons for changing their beliefs. You tag them false religion/false prophets because of this.

Your case study is rubbish
At least catholics can criticize their leader it shows they ain't zombies like you people. Once your gb change their stance they expect you not to complain. If you complain you are disfellowshipped and shunned on top man made assumptions that are made to doctrines. Religion of ever changing beliefs. Hypocrisy

Na wa o . You said Jws tag other people as false religion when they change their beliefs. I gave you a case study and you still refused to accept it. Then, show me where they attacked other religions for changing their beliefs WHEN IT CONFORMS WITH BIBLE TEACHINGS

And those vaccination and organ transplants were not disfellowshipping offences. I don't know about blood fractions. The thing is that people keep assuming and not one single person who fell out of the organization could bring proof to show that he was disfellowshipped for the above, despite how aggressive and opposing they can be

Hairyrapunzel:
Easter is resurrection of Christ Jesus. It doesn't encompass any 4 stages.

Jws think for themselves? Should I show you where gb said independent thinking isn't allowed? Lol. If you think for yourself you wouldn't be saying what you said about easter.

We eat bread and wine during easter we don't sprinkle goats blood on our doorstep. We are not Jews and hence don't practice Judaism.

Stop giving excuse for addition of something never mentioned in the original Greek manuscript. Your leaders added something that was never there simple. If you like o explain from here to Jericho till date jehovah isn't mentioned once in the original Greek manuscript.

Pascha is a Greek word with easter or passover as it's meaning.


For example, someone says "a ball" and the rest of the text explains that this ball is "played with a bat and it is played on a table". Then, when I translated it, I called it a ping pong ball. Another person calls it a table tennis ball.Are we wrong?

If you like create your own assumption. Jehovah is never mentioned in the original Greek manuscript.

Let's analyse your assumption
Your assumption is imaginary while jehovah not being mentioned once in the original Greek manuscript is real life.
At least you said ball was mentioned in the text and the same text they said the ball is played on a table and played with a bat.
You ain't wrong to translate it as ping pong or table tennis ball.

It is wrong to translate it to ping pong or table tennis ball when ball isn't mentioned or when they didn't tell you the ball is played with a bat and on a table just like you guys translated kyrios to jehovah.
Kyrios isn't translated as jehovah but you guys just put it there because you think/assume that it may be so.


Let me conclude your assumption.
Ball was mentioned in the text and they didn't tell you in the text that the ball was played with a bat and played on a table yet you assumed and translated the ball to table tennis ball or ping pong ball.


Take home for today

You don't insert something that was never there in the first place into the Bible and call it translation.
Nwt at the end of the day inserted jehovah 237 times in their bible.

Please show me where it said that independent thinking is not allowed.

Good, thank God you admitted that you do not sprinkle blood on your doorstep. Easter was not being celebrated and this does not mean that replaced the Passover for Christians. And I also read in Easton's Bible Dictionary, written by Thomas Nelson Publ that the KJV totally replaced Passover with Easter everywhere it appeared. It was the Revised Edition that changed everything and retained Easter only in the scripture at Romans 12 vs 4. So much for not changing things

The truth is that most of you have a valid point. Many people have written letters on these issues and they may not get replied, only for the light to change and this might be years after some people might have died....And of course, prophecy. As a JW, I say it here before everyone that we have failed in prophecy. More than 7 prophecies failed....And they keep changing terms to fit the description. Like this "generation" issue. I have discussed it with my family members and I keep saying that that prophecy is a fluke. It doesn't have a modern day fulfillment. I just hope that the Governing Body will be wise enough to retract that statement when all the older members of the Governing Body die off (It is understood that Mark Sanderson and Kenneth Cook are not part of the generation because they might not have been anointed before Fredrick Franz, the oldest in the first set died. At least, they say the generation consists of two contemporary groups )
It's all confusing, but I hope they would come out clean when it doesn't happen instead of calling it failed expectations

Hairyrapunzel:
Which humble enough to change them as quickly as possible. The people that died before the change died in error.

Those that where disfellowshipped and shunned for doing things that where considered anti gb interpretation prior to the change Nko?
After the change what these people where punished for in the past became the right thing.

The holy spirit that directs your organization is always changing his mind abi its the imperfect uninspired and fallible human beings directing your organization that are always changing their mind? Who
Is it the holy spirit or the gb?

Think of the people that died before your gb approved organ transplant, vaccination and blood fractions for their members.

If na Catholics change their beliefs you will start shouting false prophet/religion but if jw change their beliefs you will say it being humble to change their beliefs. Hypocrisy

Organ transplants were not put in the same light as blood. I get it that one article referred to it as cannibalism, but still it wasn't a disfellowshipping offence. Some people blew it out of proportion....And even the article on vaccination in the 1930s was in the Golden Age (Back then, Golden Age accepted articles from different people, professors and other professionals). All the people back then believed that vaccination was more than dangerous than beneficial. (Read up about the funny way they used to perform vaccinations back then). In the 1950s, after they had heard that a lot of brothers were taking it in the same vein as blood, they came around to address the issue....These matters are best left to conscience. Even regarding blood fractions, I still cannot take them because it is still a part of blood no matter how small. And this blood is donated by someone

And by the way, no one would criticize anyone for changing their belief, IF they are changing it from the wrong thing to the right thing.

CASE STUDY

When the Pope came out to say that there was no hellfire around last year or two years ago, funny enough, it was the Catholics that were blasting him. Many Jws only commented that it was nice as he changed his stance

If you think you examine JW beliefs more than JWs, you are totally wrong. I have read Crisis of Conscience by Raymond Franz, Reluctant Apostate by Lloyd Evans, Kingdom that never came by Joseph Wilting, Gentile Times Reconsidered by Carl Olof Jonnson. I even have all the Seven Volumes of Studies in The Scriptures by Russell....And you know what I have realized??

Despite the fact that some things we believed in were barbaric, the fact remains that we were humble enough to change them as quickly as possible. I read in one of the Studies in the Scriptures that Russell believed that God's throne is in the Pleiades star because of the thick mist covering that place. Know who else had that belief? Mormons....But guess what? After careful consideration, JWs quickly changed their belief. But up till TODAY, Mormons still believe that God's throne is in that star....Same thing goes with the issue of vaccination and many others

Hairyrapunzel:
Since its only KJV that used the word easter according to you it should be telling you that they knew what they where writing.
Acts 12:4
4 And when he had apprehended him, he put him in prison, and delivered him to four quaternions of soldiers to keep him; intending after Easter to bring him forth to the people.

Pascha" is a polyseme, a word with multiple meanings. In certain contexts it refers to the Jewish Passover (celebration of the Exodus). In other contexts it refers to the Christian Easter. When used by Jews in a context prior to Christ’s resurrection, the word always refers to the Jewish Passover. However, when used by Greek Christians in a context after Christ’s resurrection the word refers to Easter

I don't see anything wrong in KJV using easter there and I don't think the writers where implying the disciples celebrated easter.




In celebration of easter you don't have any four stages. Easter is easter. Good Friday is good Friday, palm Sunday is not palm Sunday. Easter is celebration of resurrection of Christ simple. Don't come here and tell us your gb deceitful explanation of easter.


So you know that kyrios means God/Lord then you have to assume that since God's name is jehovah you should insert it (your assumption) in the place anywhere kyrios is mentioned right?

You even have done worse than what you said KJV writers where doing. You put something not there in fact never seen in the new testament because of an assumption. At least KJV used easter the correct meaning of the Greek word pascha.

So, the celebration of Easter does not encompass those 4 stages? And can you tell me where the Governing Body provided that explanation as to Easter? Jehovah's Witnesses are far more educated and reasonable than you think. We can think for ourselves and explain things by ourselves

And yes, you are right. Jehovah was added because that is was it is supposed to be translated as. For example, someone says "a ball" and the rest of the text explains that this ball is "played with a bat and it is played on a table". Then, when I translated it, I called it a ping pong ball. Another person calls it a table tennis ball.Are we wrong?

Believe it or not, Passover and Easter are not the same o. Do you kill a goat and sprinkle it's blood on your doorstep or eat of the bread and wine during Easter?

Hairyrapunzel:
Who told you easter and passover are not the same thing. Passover and meal are they the same thing?
Nwt is revised according to jw current beliefs on issues. The translators of your Bible if they stuck to the original text as close as possible jehovah will not be in new testament 218 times.
You don't want me to enter your Bible and your old and current beliefs.

I'm not talking about the NWT here. You can see that I mentioned other translations. In fact, I can give you more than 10 of them that did not use Easter.Funny enough, from my research, only KJV used Easter...And who told you that they are the same?
In the celebration of Easter, you have four stages : Palm Sunday, Good Friday, Easter Sunday and Easter Monday. The only thing they might have in common is the fact that Jesus celebrated the Passover shortly before his death( before Good Friday).Passover is pre-christian, while Easter started being celebrated by people after Jesus's death. What KJV is trying to imply is that the disciples celebrated Easter, when we know that it is not true. In fact, who gave it the name?

AND

If you agree that the word Kyrios appeared in the New Statement referring to someone other than Jesus, then you should not be surprised when it is translated as Jehovah instead of Lord. After all, God/Lord is a title used for Jesus also

Deadlytruth:
That was very dishonest of you. JWs actually started the use of abusive language while others only respond. Your decision to present the reverse as the case shows you are not different from your very brothers you seem to be admonishing.
Check the first mention of me by Peaceful Love and you'll see how he began my mention with outright insults. I am not surprised anyway because I really don't expect JWs to be that honest.

I'm sorry if it sounded that way, but as I mentioned earlier, I didn't read the whole thing. I skipped up to 90% sef. I only noticed the back and forth banter. My point is that, even if it started somewhere, it should have stopped somewhere. This whole thread is actually serving as a witness to some people. I'm even getting educated personally. Please, both parties should try to keep it to a minimum.
But to be honest, I always laugh when I see comments from one particular guy that always quotes John 8 vs 44 and then a JW lashes him back with that scripture. I just imagine two people kicking a football from both sides simultaneously

achorladey:
lordtim001: I have no problem with translations using words that MIGHT IMPLY that the SAME thing.

Achorladey: A good point which can be worked upon. So in a sense have you checked the possibility of people of that time or their locality using or interchanging WORDS like EASTER to IMPLY PASSOVER.

Note: I have not done a research on that but you may look into that as well.

lordtim001: The translators did this all in an effort to stick as closely as possible to the original text.

Achorladey: This is common notable thing that all translators do say about the Bibles they have translated but yet some translate to fit teachings already in their doctrines and the rest.

I think everyone knows that the name Easter comes from the Anglo-Saxon goddess of fertility, Eostre or something like that. Verse 2 of the same chapter, mentioned Festival of Unleavened Bread, and we know that this was celebrated in conjunction with the Passover. No where else did it mention that they celebrated Easter (Jesus ressurection)

And to your last point, yes, you are correct . Everyone always says that they are correct. Even in terms of doctrine. Make God help us sha