@mukina2,

You're making a very grave mistake by trying to judge Christianity by the Qur'an and Muhammad. If you carefully study the Qur'an and the history of the Jews without prejudice, you'll have to conclude that Muhammad twisted the Jewish holy scriptures as well their history to suit his personal religion, for he had no understanding whatsoever of the heritage of the Jews. If you really want  to know what Jesus said, don't take it from the Qur'an; rather, read the Bible where you'll find the authentic life, mission, ministry and teaching of the Son of God, as well those of Moses and the other prophets.

The Bible warns that false prophets will arise and come with 'another message' and 'another Jesus' - not the Jesus of the Bible (see 2 Corinthians 11:3-4 & 13). When a person rejects what the real Jesus Christ has done and taught, he or she would then be listening to a counterfeit message that preaches a counterfeit 'Jesus'. I'm confident that Muhammad has taught a false 'Christ' by offering a counterfeit message and denying the true Jesus.

To assure you, Jesus promised His saving grace to all who would believe in Him by simple faith, and this is the very thing that Muhammad tried to deny. He did not believe that Jesus Christ is the Saviour or that He could save a sinner from the wrath of God upon sin. Nevertheless, the Bible continues to offer the authentic promise of the crucified, dead, risen and ascended Saviour to all men: "For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost." - Matthew 18:11.

Read through the Bible carefully, and you'll find that Jesus is affirmed to be the Saviour -

"For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord." - Luke 2:11.

"For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost." - Luke 19:10.

"And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.." - John 12:47-48.

Jesus made a bold statement which no other prophet of whatever calling could make -

"Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?" - John 11:25-26.

Sorry to say, Muhammad did not believe this declaration of Jesus Christ. The end? It is not surprising that he himself could not say for certain that he was saved, and thus confessed on his death bed that he did not know what Allah would do to him on the day of reckoning. In contrast, everyone who knows and has received salvation by believing in Jesus Christ in simple faith, is definitely certain of his or her destiny with the Lord Jesus Christ in glory. They know that they are saved, washed from their sins, sealed by God as His own, and destined for eternal blessings. Only a person who rejects that offer confesses a sad destiny of uncertainty. Is that the kind of 'prophet' you want to continue following - one who does not offer you a concrete word of God's forgiveness and saving power?

Please, come to Jesus Christ today and see the difference - like I did. God has opened my eyes to His truth in the Bible, and it is only there that you can actually get the true teaching and life of the Lord Jesus Christ. It is utter folly to deny the words of Jesus simply because Muhammad denied Jesus' offer of grace or anything else. Jesus does not hate anyone - His love is still available today. Ask Him to open your eyes like He did mine - and you will never be the same again.

Nice to notice you take your 'confusion' as a compliment - meaning that it could be far worse off than we originally thought. As for the 'thorn in the flesh', don't kid yourself about your trickery, foolery and simplistic imagery you concoct in everyone of your post - you could edit or revise your 'false propaganda' or leave as posted - that's the certain reality that you can't bargain away.

@mrlawng,

mrlawng:

You can reason with anybody except ajia23.

It shows in all his posts, and that's just the point of my reminding him about it.

So, the "man and wife" are understood to be what then - spectators to the wedding carpets, abi? Please, don't go round these issues. The very thought of an elderly man marrying an under-aged girl is hideous, and the 50-something year old ought to have known better!

@ajia2,

Actually, I'm aware from your many posts on Nairaland that you happen to be a very confused person, so it's classic to notice you're singing your lullaby about how you choose to obfuscate matters.

@Logical,

Logical:

So really comparison is unwarranted, and Islamic preachings never claim there are similarities nor do they preach it, rather they necessity to acknowledge and believe in the message of both as a pre-requisite.

Salam. I don't know when this idea began to be interpolated into Islamic thinking - that it is the pre-requisite to believe in the message of both; that is, both Christianity and Islam? Well, that all depends on whether Islam actually recognizes the message of Jesus Christ: sample a few below -


¤ Jesus said: "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life: no man comes to the Father, but by Me." (John 14:6).

¤ Jesus said: "And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized
shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. (Mark 16:15-16).

¤ Jesus said: "Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?"
(John 10:36).
____________________________________

¤ Qur'an denies: "They do blaspheme who say: "Allah is Christ the son of Mary." (Qur'an 5:72).

¤ Qur'an denies: "That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah"; - but they killed him not, nor crucified him,
but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for
of a surety they killed him not" (Qur'an 4:157).


Note that what Jesus said in the Bible and what the Qur'an claims He said are two different things. The Bible states that Jesus Christ is the Son of God (as confirmed by Jesus Himself in John 10:36 above); but the Qur'an tries to accuse Jesus of blasphemy by twisting it the other way round and stating that "Allah is Christ". I don't know of any Christian who has said that "Allah is Christ", even at the time Muhammad said that Allah revealed this to him. Therefore, it's either the claim of the Qur'an is not true (stating that people are saying something which they never did); or Muhammad was presuming that was what he thought people were saying, so that he could accuse them of blasphemy.

Jesus also taught His disciples that He would be condemned to death, be crucified, and then He would rise from the dead (Mark 9:31). That was precisely what happened - for He was condemned to death for confirming that He was the Son of God:

¤ But he held his peace, and answered nothing. Again the high priest asked him, and said unto him, Art thou the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?
And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.
Then the high priest rent his clothes, and saith, What need we any further witnesses?
Ye have heard the blasphemy: what think ye? And they all condemned him to be guilty of death. (Mark 14:61-64).

¤ Where they crucified him, and two other with him, on either side one, and Jesus in the midst. (John 19:18)

¤ And it was the third hour, and they crucified him. (Mark 15:25)

These are the two crucial things (among others) that Islam and the Qur'an deny - the glory of Jesus Christ as the Son of God, and His subsequent crucifixion on the basis of that affirmation from His own lips that He is the Son of God. With these denials, how could you suppose that it Islam and Muslims believe in the message of both?? They are clearly not the same and have no common belief in their messages.

Shalom.

I also respect yours, too. Salam.

@Belloti,

Salam. Nuru may be doing a great service to Islam, but my prayers are that the real 'disbelievers' would one day see the true faith in Jesus Christ. As you said, there is so much vanity in Nuru's exercise because he already has a mindset - like so many Muslims do, and as you largely exposed yours in saying:

belloti:

In as much as i have total and unflinching faith in Islam, i don't care what everyone else choosed to believe because God Almighty has provision for everyone.

That's the mindset that makes it difficult for Muslims to read the Bible. That's the mindset that makes it uncomfortable for Muslims to be reminded that Jesus is the Messiah = the Christ = the Saviour. That's the mindset that makes it difficult for Muslims to break free from the stereotype that the Qur'an was not written by man, whereas it actually was. That's also the mindset that makes it difficult for Muslims to see the real truth that Islam is classic polytheism when Allah joins partners with himself in proclaiming "We created!" That's also the mindset that will continue to follow Islamic dogma while accusing everyone else of dogmatic sentimentality.

There's enough warning in the Bible about prophets coming in the name of God to proclaim a message that He did not send them to proclaim. They do this by pretending that they are acquainted with the Biblical message, whereas they know nothing about what it actually says. Desperate for recognition, they attempt to re-cast the statements in the Bible and thereby expose their fraud. If you want to know what the Bible really teaches - read it, don't just assume that the claims of the Qur'an about it are legitimate. That desperation is still evident today among Muslims who have attempted in recent times to device a way of seeking Muhammad's name and religion "prophesied" somewhere in the Bible. It's just about time that Muslims honestly break free from these Islamic mindset and stereotype and examine the claims of Muhammad, the Qur'an and the Hadith. That is a challenge that is both rewarding and assuring of God's wonderful love in Jesus Christ. Anything that follows with the mindset of Islamic sentimentalism will, no doubt, continue to be an exercise in vanity - just as you noticed nuru's sincerity in doing 'a great service to Islam' by these same exercises in futility.

Shalom.

Udaiyah,

Go back and read my thread. It does not appear that you have presented a well articulated writeup in response to mine, but have only let your passions run wild in search of clauses that you deliberately and personally want to consider as errors on my part. Until you gather your statements together and speak some sensible English, I would not be bothered with your yo-yo.

Nuru, you still did not answer my question. I suppose you tried to dribble round it. However, I respect your faith and would look forward to further posts of interest.

Warmly ,
M.

@Nuru: In the Qur'an, did one Allah or several Allah create mankind? It should have been easy to answer that if the singular pronouns ("I"or "Me" were used when Allah speaks as the creator in the Qur'an, but rather he speaks with the plural pronouns:

"O mankind! We created you from a male and female, and made you into nations and tribes, that you may know each other." [Sura 49:13].

Let's just be clear about one thing: The God of the Bible is not the same as the Allah of the Qur'an (you said so yourself) - and that is what I have tried to maintain. I never said that the God of the Bible had "partners" or "associates," and you only need to read my previous posts to see that I have been consistent in maintaining the Bible teaches only One true and living God.

Meanwhile, I don't "assume" any statement Jesus made in the Bible: I don't "for a moment assume that Jesus called God Father." I truly believe in my heart that what He declared is authentic and authoritative, and He most definitely called God "Father."


M.

Nuru, please answer this question for me: Is Allah the very same God as Eledumare?

Z4M4eva:

Easy!!!

( ...it's her again - my sis! I'd have to ask her to register her own ID - she loves the game. If U see rapid answers - U know it's her. )

This one's from me -

buffet

grump

jump

plump

slump

dump

rumple

rump

humble

rumble

guggle

bumble

stumble

struggle

bubble

double

dabble

haggle

gaggle

bag

gag

brag

slang

tang

Jesus' Open Statements

nuru:

...If you see anywhere in the Bible athat He is refered to as Father, it is a later addition to the message of Christ. Compare what was reported Jesus said openly in the gathering of many men to what somebody claimed he said when he was alone, ... You would do well to believe an open declaration and throw away a secret report in as much as its in variance with other Truths.

Later additions? Islam loves that propaganda so much that you can't afford to tell it as it is. What part of the Bible do you believe anyway? Nuru, spend time reading the Bible if you would come through with a good statement, not bias and half statements. Jesus indeed made open statements that God was His Father. See the following -

1. At the onset of His ministry, Jesus openly called God "Father" before the listening crowd -
   "For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you."[Matt. 6:14] 
   "Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father
    which is in heaven." [Matt. 10:32].  "All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man
    knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he
    to whomsoever the Son will reveal him." [Matt. 11:27] (Please read Matt.11:7 and see that He
    was speaking this openly to the multitudes).

2. He spoke openly in His preaching to a very hostile crowd about the very fact that God was His "Father" -
  "But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work." [John 5:17]. "And the Father himself,
   which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his
   shape." [John 5:37] "Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which
   of those works do ye stone me?" [John 10:32].

3. He was questioned openly by the Jewish religious council as to who He was. Before everyone present, He
confessed that He was the Son of God: "But he held his peace, and answered nothing. Again the high priest
asked him, and said unto him, Art thou the Christ, the Son of the Blessed? And Jesus said, I am: and ye
shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven." [Mark 14:61-62].

4. He prayed openly on the cross for forgiveness for His executioners, calling God "Father" -
  "Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment,
  and cast lots." [Luke 23:34]

All these and several more were clear statements that Jesus made IN THE OPEN, not in secret as to be passed for "later additions." Notice also that it was on this very confession that He was the "Son of God" that the Jewish council condemned Jesus to death. [Mark 14:61-64]. Even secular history bears out the fact that Jesus was put to death on the cross - the very thing that Islam denies and tries to hide. It is not only Islam that postulates that the Bible has been changed or is in error; several other religious movements make that claim, yet they just don't know what the original message of the Bible was so they can tell it to the world as it is. If you believe the texts you quote in the Bible as to what Jesus said openly, what's wrong with believing the other open statements He made? Afterall, you posited that ...

nuru:

...You would do well to believe an open declaration and throw away a secret report...

I wait to see you follow your own advice to believe the "open declaration" in the 'open' Bible quotes above; and I bet your bias would prove too strong for you to accept these 'open' truths. Both openly and in secret, Jesus indeed called God "Father."

Warmly  ,
M.

emblem