₦airaland Forum

lepasharon: What y'all need to understand is that the Jsus in the bible and Jesus of Christianity are totally different personalities. Jesus in the Bible was a Jew,Christianity adopted him and deified him for Christianity and made into a man for all,whereas that wasn't the case at all.

Jesus became Christian !

the jesus in your quran and the one in the bible are difference. That is what you suppose to say.

plaetton: So the Jews made a grave error of judgement 2000yrs ago, and since then they are not intelligent enough to have seen the errors of their past, and you, an African , for whom bible was brought to by sword and gun, are so brilliant that you can see what Jews have not seen?

Is this your position sir?

are you sayin it's all the jews presently living reject christ? In your post you say " why should african accept christ" what make you think all africans accept christ? some will reject him and likewise the jews.

IbnuUche: lier misquotation

go and read the verse again and correct me of am wrong.

SHALOM.

macof: This is the biggest lie Christian peddle.

Intelligence and logical thinking is infact the bedrock of "spiritual things"
You don't know spiritual until it fits with your reality and not some imaginary tale you were told or you read.

What you do is RELIGIOUS THINGS not spiritual

Back to the main topic...
The Jews are the only people who witnessed Jesus, how come they reject the tales of the Romans who knew little about Jesus mainly from hear say and town rumors??

This is something that demands thought and rationality not assumptions and blind faith...blind faith is nothing but delusion.

you talk as if it was all jews reject christ,An't the disciples jews? There was even a verse in luke were Jesus send 70 of them, are they not jews? After the death of jesus, on the day of penticoast, the disciple convert all most 5000 jews.the truth is that the large number of jews reject christ.only peter know who jesus REALY is.

musKeeto: Matthew 15:24
Then Jesus said to the woman, "I was sent only to help God's lost sheep--the people of Israel."

Revelations 3:9
I will make those who are of the synagogue of Satan, who claim to be Jews though they are not, but are liars--I will make them come and fall down at your feet and acknowledge that I have loved you.

Romans9: 6 But it is not that the word of God has taken no effect. FOR THEY ARE NOT ALL ISREAL
WHO ARE OF ISREAL, 7 nor are they all children because they are the seed of
Abraham; but, “In Isaac your seed shall
be called.”[b] 8 That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the
children of God; but the children of the
promise are counted as the seed.

musKeeto: Matthew 15:24
Then Jesus said to the woman, "I was sent only to help God's lost sheep--the people of Israel."

Revelations 3:9
I will make those who are of the synagogue of Satan, who claim to be Jews though they are not, but are liars--I will make them come and fall down at your feet and acknowledge that I have loved you.

Romans9: 6 But it is not that the word of God has taken no effect. For they are not all Israel
who are of Israel, 7 nor are they all children because they are the seed of
Abraham; but, “In Isaac your seed shall
be called.”[b] 8 That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the
children of God; but the children of the
promise are counted as the seed.

plaetton: For me, this question was one of the cardinal questions, perhaps even the most important question that plagued my mind in my early youth.
It is a question that I wish an African christian can honestly answer without any cognitive dissonance.

I mean, the Jews are perhaps one of the oldest homogeneous ethnic groups in the world with a chronological history that dates back to as far as 3500yrs.

Today, there tens of millions of Jews spread out throughout Europe, Middle East and North America.

The Jews, for whom the Biblical Narratives of their god were written categorically rejected, and still reject the Jesus myth as proclaimed and propagated by Imperial Rome, the Motherchurch of Rome and her many many children.

In case anyone has forgotten, Christianity was brought to Africa by the colonial powers of Europe a little under 200 yrs ago, as they came to rob , loot and claim Africa's human and natural resources.

So my question to any African christian who is worth a pound of his christian faith is :

Do you, an African, a late victim to the game of classical social engineering , feel that YOU Are Smarter than the world's Jewish population, an ethnic tribe that were witnesses to the events of 1st century Palestine ?

An African simply cannot claim to be smart for accepting Jesus unless he is also logically implying that those who have rejected the phony myth of Jesus for 2000yrs, the Jews, are stupid, for not having seen the truth , even after 2000yrs.

the jews reject christ because they though the messiah will fight war and win it for them as in the old testament.
Acts1:6. Then they gathered around him and asked him, “Lord, are you at this time
going to restore the kingdom to Israel?” 7 He said to them: “It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has
set by his own authority. 8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit
comes on you; and you will be my
witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea
and Samaria, and to the ends of the
EARTH.”

The gospel is for the whole world.

Weah96: The mediation through prophets business began after a national revelation. Yahweh spoke to the entire country of Israel personally at mount Sinai. Here is what Moses says in Deuteronomy 5:


2 The Lord our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.

3 The Lord made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.

4 The Lord talked with you face to face in the mount out of the midst of the fire,

Yahweh spoke with the Jews face to face. It was then that he instructed them to obey his words or whatever. By asking the Jews to accept Jesus, you're requesting that they do what Yahweh explicitly forbids.

macof and weah96.
It was because God always spoke to moses that lead to aaron and miriam rebelling against moses. number12: 2 “Has the Lord spoken only through Moses?”
they asked. “Hasn’t he also spoken
through us?” And the Lord heard this..

Number 16. The israelites even doubt moses was tellin lies because they complain why God always talk to moses and not them.

Macof. I have called the name of jesus and he answer me, i'v heard many account of this testimony.

ayo. God bless you a thousand times.

ifyalways: Long story.

Even "God's" love have strings attached.

Love gbakwa oku

funny lady.

1John 4:18.New International Version There is no fear in love. But perfect love
drives out fear, because fear has to do
with punishment. The one who fears is
not made perfect in love.

merieam16: gud

are you a christian? Do you know the real reason you must give your life to jesus christ?

Weah96: You mean the way the gospels tried to twist the Jewish scriptures?

Nowhere is it prophesied in the OT that the messiah won't have a human father or that his mother would be a virgin. You're following what amounts to a Jewish cult group, apostates who rebelled against the original Jewish scriptures and Yahweh.

Jews believe that anything not confirmed by their scriptures cannot be from Yahweh. In fact, Yahweh claims in the first few verses of Deuteronomy 13, that miracles can be a test of one's loyalty to the Torah.

Jews believe, like I do, that God should speak to everyone. Yahweh is a Jewish God, and spoke to all the Jews simultaneously at mount Sinai. Or so it is claimed in Deuteronomy 5:3. Your Jesus business where he doesn't reveal himself to people is not based on Jewish scripture.

in the old testament, when the God want to reach out to the people it's through his prophet and they start like this"the word of God came to me" what dos this mean? When adam sin, man lost communication with God,but after man ask for forgiveness, the only way God would reach out to man it is by his prophet,but the people would not listen to his prophet, some they killed others they reject,God decided to take the realm of the flash,and reconcile man back to himself,now, wither man chose to be ignorance of not,the scripture has been fulfilled,you have a choice to believe or not to believe.

the jews reject christ because they
thought the messiah will win war and
deliver the kingdom to isreal.
Acts1:6. Then they gathered around him
and asked him, “Lord, are you at this time
going to restore the kingdom to Israel?” 7 He said to them: “It is not for you to
know the times or dates the Father has
set by his own authority. 8 But you will
receive power when the Holy Spirit
comes on you; and you will be my
witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the
earth.”


if you want to know the more about the deep things of God,GO AND STUDY ALL THE PARABLE OF JESUS CHRIST WITH A TEACHABLE SPIRIT.

Weah96: Isaiah 9:6-7 was not about Jesus. The Jewish messiah is expected to descend from the direct lineage of David. Jesus didn't have a paternal lineage since he didn't have a human father.
http://www.whatjewsbelieve.org/prooftext6is96.html

all what you got up there are the idea of men, trying to twist the gospel.

macof: All you saying here is complete rubbish.

The Jewish Messiah is not Jesus, Jesus is a failure, he never fulfilled prophecy.

Read here for what makes the true Messiah
www.nairaland.com/1496957/jewish-messiah

on one thread you say jesus did not exist , you say the jews reject him, I even give you bible verse the reason the jews reject him, and now you're tellin me 'jesus is a failure', what your problem with jesus? Did he do you harm?haven't you read the bible how nice Jesus is? jesus is a good man, a good man cannot be a failure.

do you know the meaning of holy spirit? A sinless being, muhammad is a sinner, how can a sinner be the holy spirit? As you typing this lies, the holy spirit is watching you.

The book of isaiah was talkin about the scripture, IT IS A SEALED BOOK TO THE LEARN AND UNLEARNED UNTIL YOU STUDY IT WITH A TEACHABLE SPIRIT.

Muhammad is not a prophet.
quran29:27.Sahih International
And We gave to Him Isaac and
Jacob and
placed in his descendants
PROPHETHOOD
and scripture. And We gave him his reward in this world, and indeed,
he is in
the Hereafter among the righteous.
THIS VERSE IN THE QURAN MEAN
MUHAMMAD IS A FALSE PROPHET, HE
WAS NOT FROM THE DESCENDANT OF ISAAC AND JACOB.

getgame: [size=18pt]Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) in the New Testament:[/size]

Al-Qur'an Chapter 61 Verse 6:

"And remember, Jesus, the son of Mary, said, 'O Children of Israel! I am the messenger of Allah (sent) to you, confirming the Law (which came) before me and giving glad tidings of a messenger to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmed.' But when he came to them with clear signs, they said, 'This is evident sorcery!' "

All the prophecies mentioned in the Old Testament regarding Muhammad (pbuh) besides applying to the Jews also hold good for the Christians.


1.
John chapter 14 verse 16:
"And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you forever."

2.
Gospel of John chapter 15 verse 26:

"But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which
proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me."

3.
Gospel of John chapter 16 verse 7:


"Nevertheless I tell you the truth; it is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not
come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you".

"Ahmed" or "Muhammad" meaning "the one who praises" or "the praised one" is almost the translation of the
Greek word Periclytos. In the Gospel of John 14:16, 15:26, and 16:7. The word 'Comforter' is used in the English translation for the Greek word Paracletos which means advocate or a kind friend rather than a comforter.
Paracletos is the warped reading for Periclytos. Jesus (pbuh) actually prophesised Ahmed by name. Even the
Greek word Paraclete refers to the Prophet (pbuh) who is a mercy for all creatures.

Some Christians say that the Comforter mentioned in these prophecies refers to the Holy Sprit. They fail to realise
that the prophecy clearly says that only if Jesus (pbuh) departs will the Comforter come. The Bible states that the
Holy Spirit was already present on earth before and during the time of Jesus (pbuh), in the womb of Elizabeth, and again when Jesus (pbuh) was being baptised, etc. Hence this prophecy refers to none other than Prophet
Muhammad (pbuh).


4.
Gospel of John chapter 16 verse 12-14:

"I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth is
come, he will guide you unto all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me".

The Sprit of Truth, spoken about in this prophecy referes to none other than Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)
NOTE: All quotations of the Bible are taken from the King James Version.

muhammad the holy spirit? Do you know the meaning of holy spirit? A blameless spirit, somtin that will never and can never sin. We all know muhammad is a sinner, then how can he be the holy spirit?


quran29:27.Sahih International
And We gave to Him Isaac and
Jacob and
placed in his descendants
PROPHETHOOD
and scripture. And We gave him his reward in this world, and indeed,
he is in
the Hereafter among the righteous.
THIS VERSE IN THE QURAN MEAN
MUHAMMAD IS A FALSE PROPHET, HE
WAS NOT FROM THE DESCENDANT OF ISAAC AND JACOB.

Weah96: There is no prophecy regarding this sandals wearing word in all of Jewish scripture. The foundation of Judaism is the Torah or the old testament, which they consider to be the words of Yahweh.

Why is this word becoming flesh business not mentioned?

isaiah 9.isaiah prophecies the coming of the king of kings and Lord of lord,the mighty God.what dos this mean? God is a spirit, common sense will tell you that a spirit need flash to walk on the earth.

merieam16: ah! Don't just tell me ure doubtin 4 religion

doubting what? by his grace am a christian,am 100% sure of my faith in christ.

truthman2012: I observe you have kept dodging Gen. 17:19-21 and Quran 29:27. It shows you have seen the truth. Why do you choose to deceive yourself. Both verses say God could not have sent Muhammad because he was not from the lineage of God's covenant for prophethood. Since it was not God who sent Muhammad because He could not break His covenant, who sent him? Your guess is as good as mine.





Quran is not a replacement of the Bible, they are not from the same God. Allah is not the God of the Jews and Christians.

''Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as BELIEVE NOT IN Allah nor the Last Day.......(Quran 9:29).

This quranic verse shows that the Jews and Christians did not believe in Allah but Yahweh.

Again the Quran further says:

Say: O disbelievers (This is talking about "those who have been given the Scripture, i.e Jews and Christians who didn't believe Allah)

I worship not that which ye worship

Nor worship ye that which I worship

And I shall not worship that which ye worship
Quran 109:1-4

Allah clearly told Muhammad and muslims that what they worship is not the God of the Jews and Christians. Therefore quran cannot be a replacement of the Bible.



All these are fallacies framed by the enemies of Christianity.



You muslim guys misinterpret the bible to suit yourselves. Your quote is wrong. Mathew 21:45 does not say so. I want you to research properly and give the correct quote before I answer you.

thank you. Quran 29:27 was so clear.

Rilwayne001: My signature is now effective

quran27:29 was a mistake by muhammad not allah right?

Rilwayne001: Seems you do not comprehend the simple english here, therefore i will not further waste my time explaning this line to you after now



7 For what great nation has a god as near to them as the LORD our God is near to us whenever we call on him?

A nation is not just great because of riches or any other thing, if not God will be nearer to them whenever they call upon him, and on this day the Ismael Nation is near to God as God is also nearer to them. It is a promise that has been fulfiled.

They are:
1) Ishmael is BLESSED (which include Riches amd other wordly things, The likes of Europe, and America are blessed Nation)
Therefore a Blessed Nation is distinctly different from a Great Nation in the sight of God.

2) He will be FERTILE.

3) His nation will multiply

4) AND will be made into a GREAT NATION. ( a great Nation is a Nation that keeps God commadment which brings them closer to God and God come closer to them)




What is the the different between been a Great Nation and been a Blessed Nation

what is the meaning of this?? you think you are chating with a minor? All this twisting of bible verses.

Rilwayne001: Do you believe in the Quran?

I believe muhammad write the quran and made a massive mistake because there is know way God will make this type of mistake, am I right?

quran29:27.Sahih International
And We gave to Him Isaac and Jacob and
placed in his descendants PROPHETHOOD
and scripture. And We gave him his
reward in this world, and indeed, he is in
the Hereafter among the righteous.

THIS VERSE IN THE QURAN MEAN MUHAMMAD IS A FALSE PROPHET, HE WAS NOT FROM THE DESCENDANT OF ISAAC AND JACOB.

Rilwayne001: They are GREAT NATION as God promised to make them. but they are great not because of riches rather because they worship God alone and for keeping Gods commandment as explained in Deut 4:6-8. Better still tell me am wrong.

Atleast we have arab country that are poor..biko? so what is your point?




SMH. In Deutenoromy 4:6-8, is there anything like riches there?

You dont seem to know what you are doing atimes, SMH for you



You are spiritually daft

the book of deuterunomy 4:6-8. Was talkin about isreal,God told them to go and possessed there land.

Deuteronomy 4 New International Version (NIV) Obedience Commanded 4 Now, Israel, hear the decrees and laws I am about to teach you. Follow them so
that you may live and may go in and take
possession of the land the Lord, the God
of your ancestors, is giving you. 2 Do not add to what I command you and do not
subtract from it, but keep the commands
of the Lord your God that I give you. 3 You saw with your own eyes what the Lord did at Baal Peor. The Lord your God
destroyed from among you everyone
who followed the Baal of Peor, 4 but all of you who held fast to the Lord your God
are still alive today. 5 See, I have taught you decrees and laws as the Lord my God commanded me,
so that you may follow them in the land
you are entering to take possession of it. 6 Observe them carefully, for this will show your wisdom and understanding to
the nations, who will hear about all these
decrees and say, “Surely this great nation
is a wise and understanding people.” 7 What other nation is so great as to have
their gods near them the way the Lord
our God is near us whenever we pray to
him? 8 And what other nation is so great as to have such righteous decrees and
laws as this body of laws I am setting
before you today?

now read verse 7. again, it say" what other nation[arab] is so great to have their gods near them THE WAY THE LORD OUR GOD IS NEARER TO US[ISREAL]. Notice he use the small letter "g" for god in referring to the arab god. But the isreal has the big G on it.


The way you guys read the bible is wrong, first you must understand the context, example, God IS great, but another verse say samson is great, those that mean samson can challenge God? No,the context in which the book refer "God IS great" is talkin about a supreme bein, but the context in which bible say samson is great is talkin about the physical strength.THE CONTEXT IN WHICH GOD SAY THE ISREAL IS A GREAT NATION WAS SPIRITUALY, GOD FAVOUR THEM. BUT THE CONTEXT IN WHICH GOD MAKE THE ARAB A GREAT NATION WAS ABOUT RICHES.if it spiritual, when america invade the arab, those that mean God is weak to protect the arab spiritualy?
You guys don't know anytin about the deep thing of God.

Rilwayne001: what is the meaning of this please




What is a GREAT NATION according to Deut 4:6-8 ?

the arab are great, nobody doubt that, the covenant is with isaac. all the lineage of prophethood will come from isaac,the quran and bible confirm it.

Ok the arab are great nation, europe is great isreal is great.so what your point?God made the arab a great nation through ishmeal,dos that mean when america invade the arab God is weak? No, this mean the great nation mean riches. But the convent mean all prophet are to comes from isaac.

You guys are spiritualy blinded.

frank317: i dont believe you, i dont want to see you as a lair. but the fact is that so many Christians not do act like this woman. there is no denying that fact the living such a life is part of the christian teachings. but how realistic are they.

The problem with Christianity and many other religions is that they preach love and care for humanity and still counter it, making it difficult to be achieved. Yes, how can love for humanity be achieved when, religious teachings comes with threats (earthly and eternal punishments), calling of unbelivers fools, claiming superiority of belief, asking one not to be equally yoked with unbelievers, making them believe he/she is specially loved by the same God who created every human, thinking he/she is alive and healthy because God loves him more than the dead or sick or because he is sinless (however that is possible, i dont know).

most religions unconsciously promotes selfishness, segregation, self righteousness, harmful superiority complex, hipocricy, deception, forced kindness and projected self hatred.

the fact is that any christian who is able to achieve what the woman above achieve actually took some bold steps away from in-dept religious teachings. Its takes one's personality and learning to achieve love for humanity and not religion or relationship with Christ.

the fact that a christian woman acts like that means that there may be more women who can show more love,or is the woman 100% perfect?
This is the fact:she's a christian, she study the life style of jesus,that is were her character comes from,truly there has to be few people who will act more than her.

kuss: why do muslims always go to the bible to authenticate their religion
it is obvious that islam cannot exist without the bible
every prophecy concerning Ismael has been fulfilled

Galatians 4:25
For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

what can you say about this corrupt right, this was written even before Mohammed was born

when you copy your book from somebody, to perfected your book, you need answer to the original book. Have you ever seen christian try to use the quran to perfected the bible? The op is the evidence.

Rilwayne001: Do you agree with me here or not?

7 For what great nation is there that has gods so close to it as the LORD, our God, is to us whenever we call upon him?

8 Or what great nation has statutes and decrees that are as just as this whole law which I am setting before you today? ”

Israel is called great because:
1) They worship God and only God.
2) They have the law of God.

Therefore the Nation of Ismael are a great Nation simply because of the 2points up there. Or else you want to prove that God didnt promise his descendants to ne a GREAT NATION no?

are you blind to read my coment? Dint you read were I say God make him a great nation because the blood of abraham run in him? The covenant was with isaac, an everlasting covenant.

Genesis16. 11 The angel of the Lord also said to her: “You are now pregnant
and you will give birth to a son.
You shall name him Ishmael,[a] for the Lord has heard of your misery. 12 He will be a wild donkey of a man;
his hand will be against everyone
and everyone’s hand against him,
and he will live in HOSTILITY
toward[b] all his brothers.”

HE WILL LIVE IN HOSTILITY TOWARD HIS BROTHERS MEANS HE WILL BE ANGRY TOWARD HIS BROTHER, HE WILL HATE THEM.

Ubenedictus: i didn't say they were, but "christ in me the hope of glory" is still a bible passage that puts christ in all christians.


i can work with this, the question is "what do you think is the effect of Christ death?", why did the poor guy die? The bible seems to say he died to make us Children of God....but if we were already literal sons of God then why did the guy die?

that is ok...each man search for the "truth"...for many it isn't rocket science, for people like me the search may not be completed in my life time.






ok, i think many ideas are packed in these sentences,...i believe every church, even every religion has some truth...but that is a bit different from your thought, you think it is easier to believe every idea is acceptable. That is interesting, i'll ask you a few questions just to see how acceptable you think every idea is. do you think it is acceptable to kill all jew? Do you think it is acceptable for kill all twins?

I guess my point is, where do you draw the line, isn't it just imposible for "jesus is lord" and "jesus is not lord" to both be acceptable?

Unless ofcuz u don't believe there is such a thing as objective truth...



interesting sincerity... To be sincere maybe i am a bit scared, i don't think the question is about what other think about what you believe...i think the question is what you think about what you believe...
If every opinion is acceptable then there is no real truth, objectivity is blurred, what is acceptable may very well be believable. So why do you think A and not B. Why Jesus and not muhammed?

How do you draw the line?

bless this brother.

Rilwayne001: First of all, do you agree with all what i wrote in the OP



These are different topics

You can open a thread for discussion. Dont let us derail this particular one

this is the complete chapter of genesis17.

Genesis 17 New International Version (NIV) The Covenant of Circumcision 17 When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the Lord appeared to him and said, “I
am God Almighty[ a]; walk before me faithfully and be blameless. 2 Then I will make my covenant between me and you
and will greatly increase your numbers.” 3 Abram fell facedown, and God said to him, 4 “As for me, this is my covenant with you: You will be the father of many
nations. 5 No longer will you be called Abram[b]; your name will be Abraham,[ c] for I have made you a father of many
nations. 6 I will make you very fruitful; I will make nations of you, and kings will
come from you. 7 I will establish my covenant as an everlasting covenant
between me and you and your
descendants after you for the
generations to come, to be your God and
the God of your descendants after you. 8 The whole land of Canaan, where you
now reside as a foreigner, I will give as
an everlasting possession to you and your
descendants after you; and I will be their
God.” 9 Then God said to Abraham, “As for you, you must keep my covenant, you and
your descendants after you for the
generations to come. 10 This is my covenant with you and your descendants
after you, the covenant you are to keep:
Every male among you shall be
circumcised. 11 You are to undergo circumcision, and it will be the sign of the
covenant between me and you. 12 For the generations to come every male
among you who is eight days old must be
circumcised, including those born in your
household or bought with money from a
foreigner—those who are not your
offspring. 13 Whether born in your household or bought with your money,
they must be circumcised. My covenant in
your flesh is to be an everlasting
covenant. 14 Any uncircumcised male, who has not been circumcised in the
flesh, will be cut off from his people; he
has broken my covenant.” 15 God also said to Abraham, “As for Sarai your wife, you are no longer to call
her Sarai; her name will be Sarah. 16 I will bless her and will surely give you a
son by her. I will bless her so that she will
be the mother of nations; kings of
peoples will come from her.” 17 Abraham fell facedown; he laughed and said to himself, “Will a son be born to
a man a hundred years old? Will Sarah
bear a child at the age of ninety?” 18 And Abraham said to God, “If only Ishmael
might live under your blessing!” 19 Then God said, “Yes, but your wife Sarah will bear you a son, and you will
call him Isaac.[d] I will establish my covenant with him as an everlasting
covenant for his descendants after him. 20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard you: I will surely bless him; I will make him
fruitful and will greatly increase his
numbers. He will be the father of twelve
rulers, and I will make him into a great
nation. 21 But my COVENANT I will establish with ISAAC, whom Sarah will
bear to you by this time next year.” 22 When he had finished speaking with
Abraham, God went up from him. 23 On that very day Abraham took his son Ishmael and all those born in his
household or bought with his money,
every male in his household, and
circumcised them, as God told him. 24 Abraham was ninety-nine years old
when he was circumcised, 25 and his son Ishmael was thirteen; 26 Abraham and his son Ishmael were both circumcised on
that very day. 27 And every male in Abraham’s household, including those
born in his household or bought from a
foreigner, was circumcised with him.


If YOU READ VERSE 2, GOD SAY HE WILL MAKE AN EVERLASTING CONVENT WITH ABRAHAm...... AND IN VERSE 21, THE SAME CONVENT WILL CONTINUE IN ISAAC.GOD MAKE ISHMEAL A GREAT NATION BECAUSE HE PROMISE TO BLESS HIS DESCENDANT EVEN ESAU WAS BLESS.

Rilwayne001: Ismael was not just blessed, God promised to make his nation a GREAT NATION. Yes or No


And i have already outline what qualifies a GREAT NATION.

Am i communicating

nobody deny it, ishmeal was mad a great nation, but the covenant was with isaac, great nation is a material riches, but convent mean all prophet will comes from isaac root.

Rilwayne001: Genesis (17:20): ”As for Ishmael, I am heeding you: I hereby bless him . I will make him fertile and will multiply him exceedingly . He shall become the father of twelve chieftains,[size=15pt] AND [/size] I will make of him a [size=15pt] GREAT NATION [/size] .”

We extract the following from the above verse:

1) Ishmael is BLESSED.

2) He will be FERTILE.

3) His nation will multiply

4) AND will be made into a GREAT NATION.

Are you both saying the above prophecy was not fulfilled

do you know the meaning of COVENANT? Dint you know that esau was blessed to?but the covenant was with jacob.