₦airaland Forum

Raypawer:
well, if that's the case, Golang is good for concurrency... its far better than over hyped nodejs which does an infinite loop in my own point of view..

Yeah, were i can help it...GoLang is preferred...Erlang and Scala are also powerful. Node is over hyped, yes.

But what do you mean by "infinite loop"?

Borwe:
Bro, for performance just go c++ with some web frameworks or java, but never use PHP or Python for performance intensive websites, why you think Twitter, Runescape, and some more MMORGP games aren't written in those two languages, because they are too slow

Facebook uses php...albeit with a different implementation.

The idea is that performance is not entirely dependent on language but also on developer skill, implementation and server resources available

seunthomas:
You got your facts wrong again. Its a superset of Java. A language consists of the syntax(code) and the core(execution environment). Scala runs on the JVM. You can actually write Java code in scala and it would still run. Because JSP uses different syntax does not mean its not Java is it??

Im actually stunned by this. If the above is correct, then PHP and Python are the same cos they are just abstractions from the C language.

If Jsp is Java and Scala is Java, then C# is VB.Net and ASP.Net is C# and all what not

seunthomas:
You miss it bro. Its actually a good thing to know many languages. It makes it considerably easier to identify the pitfalls of one language over another. As for your example. Its not even good enough because in java garbage collection would kick in as soon as that object is not used any longer. There is actually very little performance bottle neck in creating an object. So go and do your homework again.

It actually depends...if the system runs out of memory while the loop is still being run...what happens?

You cant tell me that a good programmer and a bad programmer will produce the same application performance-wise. Even if the language was invented in the garden of eden

seunthomas:
You got your facts wrong again. Its a superset of Java. A language consists of the syntax(code) and the core(execution environment). Scala runs on the JVM. You can actually write Java code in scala and it would still run. Because JSP uses different syntax does not mean its not Java is it??

Thats like saying VB script is VB.Net.

Hack was invented by facebook to run on HHVM. Php can also run on HHVM. does that mean that Php and Hack are the same?

Scala runs on the JVM because its code is compiled into Java Byte code. Lua is compiled into C or c++(cant quite recall) does that make Lua c++?.

And so u'd know, scala was once released on the .net platform.

yusasiv:
did i just read colo colo
oh! my bad, i have problems reading with dark shades at night

wetin dis one dey talk?

VictoriaBee:
Igbo "tongue" is a slang and slang isn't acceptable in English.

I disagree with you. Colloquialism or the use of slangs is accepted in Informal Language. That is exactly how the Americans changed "i want to" to "i wanna".

You can actually design a world class website without using css. But that is if you are using flash or silverlight

Raypawer:
guy, whats so special with golang? it was developed by google to eliminate the slowness and clumsiness of software development at Google, and thereby to make the process more productive and scalable. but wait...

Go slow builds, has uncontrolled dependencies, each programmer using a different subset of the language, poor program understanding (code hard to read, poorly documented, has difficulty in writing automatic tools, and so on... am not saying go is that bad but from your statement, it either you have a lot of tool but dont know how to maximize them or you dont know their uses et all!

Slowness and Clumsiness......Google use Java mainly...nuff said.

GoLang's concurrency model is exaclty what i need for the projects my team have. and i find its documentation quite easy. No language has it all. Like someone said, go for the most suitable. and for concurrency, i choose Go. Code hard to read? erm....Java?

Scala is not Java

pcguru1:
Working on a Spring Application currently (though i hate J2EE) but this statement is true.



Compiling takes a while but it's quite faster as everything's memory, but left to me I prefer the .NET Platform, am not a fan of crazy xml configuration.

Again, implementation. HHVM compiles php to bytecode

seunthomas:
I dont need to provide benchmarks. No point reinventing the wheel. Others have done that many times. The only languages that can compete with Java like i mentioned earlier are .Net Languages. The challenges in performance are not just in the interpretation/compilation, they also include memory management(many languages cant use the available memory on the machine efficiently, if you run a php script and a java file, check your process monitor,php will definately use more memory than Java for a single thread and for each new thread php will create another process which is very very poor design while Java or the other languages i discussed would still stay in 1 thread except explictly required to fork another process). As for facebook implementation, i used in 2012 to see how good it was. Really no much difference from the original language in terms of performance. Its only more scalable(works across multiple machines easier).

1. Jsp consumes more memory than php.
2. you re wrong about php creating another process. very wrong. that is the work of the web server. Apache does that. and its because apache is based on a thread per request model. Hhvm wont. again it's not the language but the implementation. Maybe you should read about ReactPHP
3. Java or jsp can never compete with Scala, Erlang, Nodejs, C/C++, GoLang etc when it comes to performance.

In fact, Scala which is based on Java was created because of Java's performance and concurrency problems. Bro, i know Java, the .Nets Python, Php and Ror. i currently porting to GoLang i know what im saying

drealboy:
but u rilli need to provide benchmark to prove ur point. a lot of factors contribute to language performance.

Exactly my point. so you have to look at the points in my first post.

You cant just say one language is more performant than the other, when it comes to web app dev.

a lot are involved. E.g, 1000 comcurrent users calling a php script hosted behind nginx will recieve better perfomance than one served by apache.

In conclusion, i totally disagree with ur idea that jsp will outperform php everytime

seunthomas:
Facebook is doing the extra work on php because they had no choice. The original Facebook core is written purely in php.

A great majority of facebook is still in php. They didnt change the language..what they changed was the implementation. PHP open source so u can modify the way its implemented and give out. The Zend engine, the most popular interprets everytime. after interpretation, the script dies.

Facebook changed theirs to JIT compilation and optimization

seunthomas:
@micodon PHP no matter the level of optimization cant outperform Java. Java has a lot of neat features that makes it very powerful and really faster. The only languages that can outperform Java are the .Net languages,C/C++, Assembly as well as some other languages. To emphasize this well, even the Java bytecode is further optimized during runtime. I know many languages and if am looking for application speed and dont mind spending time on a project, i will always go for Java else i go closer to the hardware with c.

1. Maybe you should stop comparing PHP and Java. they are not of the same kind. php vs jsp is better.
2. Oh yea. PHP can outperform jsp. Its not about optimizations, its about implementations. Facebook's implementation of PHP will outperform the same code written in jsp.
3. please read about hhvm, phpng and php 7.

4. i know many languages too, sir.
5. if you are looking for speed and dont care about dev time, heres a list in no particular order
C
C++
lua
Go
Nodejs
Erlang

seunthomas:
@larisoft If you think on performance. Java cant compare to PHP. Java outperforms PHP well.

It actually depends on your code and implementation.

1. Java is more resource-hungry. Running a Jsp app on 512mb of RAM might be less efficient than running the same app ported to PHP on the same amount of RAM.

2. PHP out of the box is interpreted. means that every time a request is made to your script, it is read, interpreted line by line and executed. JVM compiles ur jsp code to bytecode. Here, Jsp beats PHP on suitable systems.

Facebook though, created Hipop for PHP, that transpiles Php code to c++. We all know that C++ is the beast of programming when it comes to performance.

Yet again, Facebook created HHVM. it has a JIT compiler that compiles php code to Intermediate bytecode. making it even better than Hipop for PHP. Here again, PHP plus HHVM should be on par with or even outperform jsp...its my thought though, which is based on benchmarks that show that HHVM outperforms NodeJs in cases.


3. A bad programmer writing JSP code will never write a more efficient app than a good PHP dev.


So, you see....there are many factors that you should consider before saying that one language outperforms the other

Jregz:
http://php.net/manual/en/book.pdo.php

http://stackoverflow.com/tags/pdo/info (tuts plus little info)


but seriously, the server should accept any well written connection script (even MySQL_; D )

MySQL has been deprecated. its either u use pdo or mysqli

mikketech:
6k

6K dollars? bros, carefull

GoodBoi1:
I know nodejs comes with an http module which can be used to implement an http server. What ready-madehttp server do I use if I don't want to write one from scratch?

eхpantiate on what you need. what reasons are there for not using the http module?

You could use apache or nginx as a reverse proxy, but ull still need at least the http server created from the http module

Chimanet:
@micodon,
Am really impressed we have some advance JavaScript users here. I tot I was the only one doing core js stuffs .I have a MEAN app am building. Will lyk to get suggestions of free or very cheap host that are easy to work with that you have used in your app. Do you use Grunt for build?

Ive never used Grunt, bro.

About the hosting, the apps ive built with node are running on vps servers.

Digital Ocean do ave cheap Vps hosting

Febup:
This is why C# has standards it has to follow, its not that C# cannot be designed to work that way but because it has to keep to standards to assure the companies who pay thousands of $$$$ for it that C# is following best practices, unlike your PHP that has no standard it follows.

What standards does C# follow. give me a link let me understand it

Febup:
I can rely on the information provided by Microsoft below, your information is baseless. In C# and .Net memory leak can only happen when you write your code outside of the managed environment provided by the .net framework, which Microsoft dose not recommend

"The garbage collector only handles managed memory, though. There are a number of places where unmanaged memory is used in Microsoft® .NET Framework-based applications, either by the common language runtime (CLR) itself, or explicitly by the programmer when interoperating with unmanaged code." Source: https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/magazine/cc163491.aspx

and so, a doesnt fall within the scope of managed memory? you need to understand how garbage collection works.

im not hyping PHP. when did i do dat?

im not saying c# is bad. im only saying, that there is no language that does it all. there are shortcomings here. there re strengths there.

i was expecting you as a c# expert to resolve the issue of conditional variables. The reason y u cant do that is because in c#, a variable declaration is a statement not an expression, no value is returned.

Febup:
This was part of the reason for creating languages like C# and Java, to take care of bad programming practices. You don't understand the meaning of managed and undamaged resources in C# and .Net if you do then you'll understand that when you work with unmanaged resources in C# then your program can have memory leak due to bad programming practices and Microsoft has giving a caution before using such: C# supports the concept of "unsafe" code for those cases in which direct memory access is absolutely critical. Source: https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/z1zx9t92.aspx

Have to comment on this.

1. First of all, you said that C# programs cant have memory leaks. Now you are saying memory leaks only occurs in unmanaged resources. This second concept is wrong. whenever you refuse to release any variable, object etc that u no longer use, a memory leak could occur.

2. Microsoft strongly discourages the use of unsafe codes.

3. when you do use unsafe codes, they cant work in an untrusted environment, namely networks

4. C# and Java cannot prevent bad programming practises

and this is going to be my last comment here.
Thanks Pcguru1 for enlightening me on some things.

Febup:
Man you are just saying what you don't know. What is garbage collection for in .Net which you need for C#, the garbage collector will that care of this for you, unless you are working with unmanaged resources.

Ok try doing this in C++: At run-time try to inspect by iterating over members of a type, enumerating its methods and so on.

The garbage collector will only clean up garbage. when you leave a result set open, the garbage collector will not clean it up because it feels that its in use because its in use. this could lead to memory leak.

When you attach an event listener and refuse to remove it when its no longer needed, the garbage collector wont clean it because its still attached. This could lead to memory leak.

Memory leaks result from bad programming practise. Its a function of the programmer not on the programming language.

Remember that people are reading this thread. Dont post if you are not sure

Bro, dont go googling without understanding how stuff works.

Febup:
Man you are just saying what you don't know. What is garbage collection for in .Net which you need for C#, the garbage collector will that care of this for you, unless you are working with unmanaged resources.

Ok try doing this in C++: At run-time try to inspect by iterating over members of a type, enumerating its methods and so on.

You are the one saying what you dont know. Garbage collector will only clean up garbage i.e what you no longer use. If u open a result set, and keep it open, The garbage collector will not clean it up because it ll believe that its still in use and that open result set could lead to memory leak.

Or when you attach an event listener and you dont remove it when its no longer needed. The garbage collector will leave it because its attached to an element or object or watever. could lead to memory leak

So Memory Leaks are from bad programming practise. it happens in all languages. ALl. it just depends on the programmer.

...and to be fair to myself, my C# skills are much better than my C/C++ skills.

There's a fundamental truth in programing: when you have good knowledge of a language, its quite easy to get the knowledge of other languages especially when they are on the same level of machine language abstraction

Febup:
This just shows that you only code with a language you are used to and you believe that language is better that other languages. The fact that in one language you declare your variable in a coditional statement and access it from out side of that conditional statement does not make that program better than a program like C# where you declare your variable out a conditional statement which in itself is a scope as it has an open and close {}. Man you just believe you know all and others should just follow you like that.

I can write the above code in C# if u like.

Why re u fretting? You said youve not had the need to access variables in conditional statements and i gave u a simple example.

2. Like ive said, You cant say one language is better than the other.

3. The world is reading through this thread

Febup:
C++ cannot handle dll hell, but you don't have this issue in C#.
Memory leak is very common in C++ applications but you don't get that in C# applications.
C++ does not support reflection but C# does by allowing you to declare objects at run-time and not just at design time.

Again, you need to do more research. DLL hell is a windows Problem. If in this world you think it doesnt affect C#, try reading about .NET hell.

Memory leak? seriously. Guy, are you sure you program? Memory leak is not a language problem. it is a programmer problem.

Wanna try it in c#? Open a database result set without calling dispose when done with it.

The only thing is that Visual Studio (which is not C#) will detect this.

Reflection in C++? Reflex library, bro

Febup:
Closure gives you access to a variable even when it has gone out of scope. The code you posted involves accessing a variable, which made me to ask you if you were referring to a closure. I don't have a need for the code you posted so there was nothing wrong in asking you what you were referring to

Your first line.....soooo not true