₦airaland Forum

harem, well said. One of the best contributions to this debate.

the Igbos need a huge dose of humility.

without hausas, yorubas & the others, igbos will not have made as much of the admirable progress they have made.

Yes you are industrious, hardworkind, and determined, but no:

You are not superior to other nigerians
You are not cleverer than the rest
You do not control lagos economy, though you make a very valuable contribution
You do not constitute 40% of lagos population
It isnt true that nigerians would starve without Igbos

But as I said, you guys, like the other nigerians are making a valuable contribution to the nation

Nigerian problems aside Lol, I NEED A JOB FOLKS, PREFERABLY IN ABUJA.

Anyone got leads? Maybe you have a senior level contact??

Federal Civil Service/Commissions/Agencies pls. Not interested in a private company.

Assistant Director Level

eku_bear:
@Missy85: I agree almost entirely with your second comment. I'm not a racist, supremacist, bigot, etc. And any lingering hatred/misunderstandings I've had have been erased by extended stays in PH, Abuja. . . basically coming to understand that others are human beings, not demons or bogeyman.

Still though, even if you aren't a racist/bigot, that doesn't mean that you don't have a "team" you are playing for. I think for 99% of Nigerians, even the ones who are not bigots, that team is not team Nigeria, so much as team Yoruba/Edo/Urhobo/Ekiti State/Ilesha town/etc. Ultimately, most allegiances are local, I think; under 1% of Nigerians truly, truly play for team Nigeria (and personally, I question if any of them actually do. . . a lot of them play for team "capitalism" or team "my pocketbook" instead).

___________

Btw, I never thought you were an extremist. Though you have progressively become more passionate about the Yoruba cause (nothing wrong in that), you rarely, if ever, succumb to the extreme preponderance, the like of which we sadly see too often on this forum.



thought you were studying in the US, but I see on this thread that you are in abuja?

eku_bear:
@Missy85, if you don't mind me asking, what are you? You seem too detribalized (unlike me, for example) for me to easily tell.

Oooh, thats difficult to say.

More important - though I wont shed a tear if Nigeria disintegrates, I do want everyone to be treated absolutely fairly - Igbo, Hausa, Yoruba, Ijaw, Itshekiri etc. I respect everyone - from the highly dedicated Hausa herdsman, the Igbo spare parts seller, to the Owambe musician. All dedicated people trying to put food on the table for their family. I dont look down on anyone or feel superior by reason of education, material resources, ethnic background etc.

Life's easier that way!

alj harem1:
do not worry i am ok with it so long as i do not fight or make anyone angry especially my igbo brother, i will do anything and even sacrifice my pride and origin for my igbo brothers, because i love them even if they do not love me

aww,,,how lovely and heroic is that?

agree with Harem re language.

it's laziness to blame being part of nigeria for everything. why cant Igbo states work together to support the langauge currently?

alj harem1:
ok obiagu1 from the way you are talking, i have to respect you because you have respected yourself

i will stop claiming igbo as from today only on Nairaland but i will be on every single igbo tread as i deem fit because they are nigerians not igborians.

i will stop the igbo claim now

sorry for the trouble brother

aww, what have you guys done to Harem

you too, you know how to pull their legs

leave Akhenaten alone pls, esp now his blood's boiling

Akhenaten,

makes your blood boil!!!!

na wa o

whatever happened to free speech. how can you ban somebody from commenting on an Igbo issue, simply because they are not/you suspect they are not Igbo?

democracy anyone?

Bear,

You dont want to be in central London if England and Scotland are playing! There's usually a massive tear-up between supporters fueled by alchohol and pent-up resentment (maybe thats overstating it) going back over 500 yrs!

There's certainly no love lost between these people.

ethnicity-fueled strifes are not peculiar to Africa.

harem, you prob have a greater interest than most on here, in preserving nigeria as one.

But it is disingenuous to suggest that intra tribal strife will becoome common place & thats a reason not to break up.

First, i think each tribe/govt will manage their own problems like other countries do.

Second, the idea that Ekiti people for instance will load up on anti quated double barrels & declare a war on Ibadan is preposterous. And if it happens, that will be a matter for the Yoruba govt to deal with.  Why are you so concerned about that. Arent there inter tribal strifes in Ghana, China, or even in the Uk during footbal matches betwn scotland & england.

A Southern Nigeria' republic is a no no. Thats back to the same problems.

If full separation of relevant regions is not possiblee, perhaps we should stay where we are & try to fix the country through genuine federalism.

to the person that said after separation the various parts will start fighting each other, ie, igbos will fight yourubas.

Over what? We wont share borders, so what are we going fight for.

Yorubas will TRY to operate a liberal democracy, and prob form some kind of economic free movement area with Igbos & niger deltans so you guys can continue to do your business in the SW freely.

I dont expect yorubas will drive anyone away from their territory.

you really think Gj could have tackled such a key issue as resource control, in a year leading to a presidential election?

if he tries to increase the sharing formula in favour of his people now, what do you think northerners will think? And can he carry such through a north-dominated National Assembly?

nigerian politics is not black & white

Dapo, i type from a small nokia so bear  with me as it's quite diff.

Framework for separation? Wao, you reckon I can address that here,,,i wish I was that clever. it will need time to develop a framework. But on broader level, we should aim for a negotiated settlement; be willing to negotiate in good faith; recognise we may have to compromise on certain things; and remember that in the end we will all remain neighbours.

Lets deal with the separation with our heads, not our hearts.

Dapo, Egypt & Sudan are friendly countries with long term pact concerning the Nile & even at that, tension do flair up now and again.

Re the River Niger, There is the Niger Basin Commission made up of countries through which the niger flows. And as most, if not all,these countries are also members of Ecowas, it has been relatively easy for them to manage access.

If you want an example of what happens where countries/territories dont get along, look at R Jordan, and ask Palestinians what Israel has done to that river.

As I said, we either want to split in a peaceful mature way, or we want years of post-split wrangles that does no one any favours.

Dapo, i think we approach this from diff perspectives.

I want a dissolution to be handled maturely and as peaceful as possible. You are prob more confrontational in your approach to seccession.

Also throwing in fluffy, unrealistic lines such as - 'i dont think they are allowed to interfere with th r niger TOO MUCH' shows a certain degree of ignorance- sorry to say.


And suggesting that a key trade partner can look for other partners if they want (re lagos ports) makes me wonder. I hope if the time comes, those representing the SW in negotiations will have a slightly more balanced perspective.

Also, of what benefit will it be to the SW if the north is poor? We should be keen to see prosperous neighbours around us, as we too will benefit from their prosperity.  We shouldnt see the breakup of nigeria as a way to purnish the north. We gain nothing doing that.

the north brings nothing to the table?

Remember:

-They have the greater control on R. Niger
- Igbos mainly, have billions of assets there
- Kogi, Kwara, possibly parts of benue for Igbos?
- you have no interest in them continuing to use Lagos ports?

Just a few examples.

If & when the time comes, people will have 2 options : approach the matter as an affair of the heart and ignore reality, like you seem to suggest, or approach it with a pragmatic sense in the understanding that each side will lose some and gain some.

i assume you'd want concessions from the north re Kwara & Kogi, and Igbos will want binding assurances about their assets in the north, & the Igbos & niger deltans will want to negotiate with the north regarding the free flow of river niger etc. I can think of 100s of stuffs that will need to be negotiated.

Excluding oil from negotiations will be a major barrier  to peaceful seccession

a lot of things will have to be put on table & negotiated

To say you want seccession, but only on condition you dont give any of your SW oil away is unrealistic.

An arrangement whereby all parts continue to benefit from crude oil proceeds for a limited time (say 10yrs), after we go our separate ways, is more realistic and likely to lead the north & other to make reciprocal concessions.

sorry to hear about your business. I agree with one or two of your points but disagree with others.

Whether we like it or not, Nigeria is the senior partner in the Ecowas project - we effectively bankrole the organisation & its peace mission both in terms of personnel & cash. Cue Nigeria's widely acknowleged role in Liberia, and sierra leone. How can you then say we have no moral right to talk peacefully to both parties in Iv coast?

Also I disagree that Obasanjo is not qualified to be a negotiator. You may not have liked him as your leader, but please mention just 2 African leaders who compare with Obasanjo in experience & longevity in the African geo-political scene.

I agree wwith you that it would be anomalous for nigeria to send troops into an independent country  that is prob in better shape than we are economically

sorry to hear about your business. I agree with one or two of your points but disagree with others.

Whether we like it or not, Nigeria is the senior partner in the Ecowas project - we effectively bankrole the organisation & its peace mission both in terms of personnel & cash. Cue Nigeria's widely acknowleged role in Liberia, and sierra leone. How can you the say we have no moral right to talk peacefully to both parties in Iv coast?

Obasanjo is actually well respected outside Nigeria.

Someone mentioned Kofi Anan. Who is Kofi Anan in African geopolitics? He was holed up with the UN in New York, Geneva etc for about 30 yrs. What does he know about the @african terrain.

Some people are not natural leaders. Obasanjo is, but the likes of GEJ & Kofi Anan are not, tho they are prob nice chaps.

why do people ascribe to the north some kind of mystical hold over 'southern nigeria.'

So it is for the north to simply 'take' 50% of someone else's assets.

And it is the north that 'wouldnt allow' the south to go. Na wa o. The north has never stopped 'the south.' They stopped a part of the south - Biafra. If SE, ND, & SW decide to leave Nigeria today and form their own individual countries, you really think the north can stop them?

Some people wet themselves & become nervous wrecks at the mention of 'north.'

Get some balls  man

such a case will border on frivolity. the key question is whether there is an overriding public interest (facilitating a 'smooth' electoral process)in extending the holidays as against the injury that the disruption is likely to cause the children.

You dont need to be a lawyer to figure the answer. Mr Falana is wasting his time.

On a broader level, the decision to extend holidays by a month only a few days b4 kids were to resume shows again that we are largely incompetent in this country. We simply are not effective planners.

I wont be surprised if the recent bombings, and renewed violence have some political sponsorships.

Whichever way, they are a political trap for Jonathan. If you support him, you will understand why he cant go in all guns blazing, until after th elections.

To do that now will be polical suicide.

Unfortunately the country is now a political pawn in the hands of Jonanthan on one hand & his northern adversaries on the other.

The common man will be the greater loser.

we know revenge-attacks may happen elsewhere in the country, but for supposedly enlightened & educated people to advocate & call for it the way some have here, is surprising.

I certainly hope no Yoruba person in the south west sets off a meaningless reprisal attack.

That said, 'pay-back' attacks have tended in the past to fastforward some kind of temporary halt to the original fighting.

Still, I cant bring myself to advocate reprisals.

extraordinary.

Gowon must be over 70 years old, and yet he's still so gullible for cash. Shame

Total UK (England, Scotland, Wales, N Ireland) is now about 62.5 million

Churchill was half American (his mother), half English

Charles, the current Prince of Wales is the first son of Elizabeth the current Queen of England, who also doubles as the ceremonial head of the UK. Confusing? It need not be.


Wales is a small nation which was more or less beaten into alliance with England hundreds of years ago.

Upon attaining the age of 18 (could be 21), Charles was made the Prince of Wales by her mother, with the approval of Welsh leaders I presume. Remember, in those days (1970s), long before the internet, XBox, and colour TV, the British Royal family's fame was box office around the world. Therefore Wales had a lot to gain (publicity) from having a Prince christened Prince of Wales, so they probably welcomed the whole idea, notwitstanding that the would-be Prince of Wales was an English man!

Mind you, there were Princes of Wales a few hundred years before Charles, and I believe those were Welshmen. The tiltle was resuscitated for Charles (I hope I'm right).

Scotland on the other hand was a warrior nation, and though smaller than the more powerful England, it entered into a willing accord with England a few hundred years ago to form a union - Great Britain - along with Wales. This preceded the Irish element - see more on that below.


Ireland was a colony of England (like Nigeria). Southern Ireland (which became Republic of Ireland upon independence) was, and remains overwhelmingly catholic, while Northern Ireland has a slight Anglican majority. When Ireland fought for independence, the anglicans in the north decided (with secret juicy offers from England I suppose) they would remain with Anglican England rather than go with the 'Pope.'  Hence the reason why today you have an independent Republic of Ireland in the south, and Northern Ireland which is part of the United Kingdom (Great Britain + Northern Ireland).

England were and probably remains the masters at 'divide and rule' - cue Nigeria.

Besides, centuries ago in Europe, alliances were formed mainly along religious lines, with England spearheading the break from Rome with its own independnet church -'Anglican.'

Jason is wrong - there have been Welsh and Scottish Prime Ministers of the UK.

i read in the papers weeks ago that ASUU walked out of a meeting with him 'cause he insisted the language of communication at the meeting must be Igbo, alternatively that non Igbo ASUU members excuse them!

Extraordinary, but nothing surprises in Nigeria any more.