MyJoe's Posts
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 Politics › Re: Azu And The Integrity Question In Nigerian Media by MyJoe: 7:08pm On Apr 16, 2010 |
Azu? I'm speechless. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Stop The Persecution Of The Pope! by MyJoe: 5:50pm On Apr 16, 2010 |
Pastor AIO:You have raised a very important angle to the issue. Obviously this is no coincidence. I think it is not so difficult to figure out. The Catholic Church has a policy of celibacy for priests. What happens is people with sexual perversions like paedophilia join in the hope that it will help them deal with it. They see the priesthoood as a refuge that will shield them from their problem. Seminaries, of course, were not built to shut out people's problems and are no therapy centres. So we end up with paedophile priests. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Cardinal Ratzinger (b16) Did More Than Anyone To Hold Abusers Accountable by MyJoe: 5:24pm On Apr 16, 2010 |
chukwudi44:Have you followed the reports at all? Or perhaps you went somewhere when Cardinal Brady acknowledged there has been cover-ups and apologised for his role? I think you have some catching up to do on this matter. The article pasted above is a spin doctor's job. The level of cover ups in these matters, in which Benedict as Archbishop Ratzinger, and later, Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger was involved, "to protect the interest of the larger Church" is mind-boggling. There has been more than one specific allegation against him which the Vatican has refused even to acknowledge, much less, clear up. The above article does nothing for the Vatican's image. People need to stop lying and face the issues otherwise no progress will be made. Please. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Inesqor On The Salvation Of The Non-christian by MyJoe: 3:31pm On Apr 16, 2010 |
Deep Sight has asked this very important question of many Christians in this forum, but I must say this is by far the best reasoned and thought-out response I have read so far. Thanks, InesQor. But as an aside and at the risk of sounding like a contrarian, I must add that I find the level of endorsement Deep Sight has conferred on products of liberalist hagiography like Mohandas Gandhi a bit bewildering. Most people I know take it from what they hear that these (add Abraham Lincoln and Kwame Nkrumah, among others, to the list) are “great men”. There are songs, books, and Hollywood movies, all in the service of revisionism. But Deep Sight is not “most people”. If a new universe was discovered at 4am tomorrow morning, Deep Sight would give you precise details of its inner workings by 5am. That is why I find this whole Ghandi business surprising. But, of course, we may have different standards for beatification and he may know things I don’t. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Inesqor On The Salvation Of The Non-christian by MyJoe: 3:26pm On Apr 16, 2010 |
@InesQor Thanks for your kind words. InesQor:If I understand you correctly, this agrees with the point I made in response to someone here, reproduced below: MyJoe:RWilliams:You are clearly interpreting a scripture wrongly here. In fact, I am not sure where you got your interpretation from since the leadership of your religion has stopped putting it like this after doing so for over 70 years. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: What It Means To Be "born Again"! by MyJoe: 2:58pm On Apr 16, 2010 |
Joagbaje: JeSoul:I fail to see the argument on this point. I think Joagbaje simply chose his words wrongly. What I think he means is that atonement by the death of goats does NOT carry the same weight as atonement by the death of Christ. The Bible appears to be clear on this. I think there are many knottier issues begging for attention here. . . |
| Foreign Affairs › Re: South Africa Police Investigate intimacy Link To Terreblanche Killing by MyJoe: 5:29pm On Apr 14, 2010 |
^^^ Sad. But this happens in all transitional societies. In India there are people who still say "Sahib" at the sight of a white man more than 60 years after the end of the British Raj. I tend to agree with the common view that the current wishy-washy approach of the ANC will not hold out for long. I understand all the effort to assure Whites that their apprehensions about Black rule were unfounded, but at some point something has to be done. Affirmative action has to be taken a tad more seriously. I do not think of the methods adopted by Mugabe - his is a cynical approach of exploiting a serious issue for personal political survival, anyway. The ANC must come out with a clear agenda. I think far reaching land reforms should be the beginning. Not everyone will be happy, but a many will be, and they will have undercut attack dogs in the likes of Julius Malema. Which is why I have never understood the widespread support Jacob Zuma enjoys among you people. Did anyone really think a consensus builder like Zuma will lift a finger to change the status quo? Here I was thinking Ramaphosa or Sexwale, but it was Zuma all the way. And I do not see why South Africa cannot work towards a system of catering for the disadvantaged like they do in Europe. How come a 15 year old was a farm worker? I hope the debates you speak of cover all the issues. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: What It Means To Be "born Again"! by MyJoe: 3:22pm On Apr 14, 2010 |
^^^ Ok |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Are You Afraid Of Hell? Why? by MyJoe: 3:19pm On Apr 14, 2010 |
mazaje:  |
| Christianity Etc › Re: What It Means To Be "born Again"! by MyJoe: 3:16pm On Apr 14, 2010 |
@JeSoul A good move. I hope someone who truly believes like you do same in Lagos. People are so indoctrinated it makes you sick - "the blessings attached to tithing", "the blessing of first fruit", "prophet offering". The worst of all is the matter of morality nuclearboy speaks of. Here you have people who think that once they meet their financial obligations to "God", nothing else matters. If you try getting into a discussion with some of them about these issues, your eyes will truly open, because Joagbaje's own is a small thing. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: What It Means To Be "born Again"! by MyJoe: 3:08pm On Apr 14, 2010 |
nuclearboy: And you are commissioned to kill someone with laughter around here. |
| Foreign Affairs › Re: South Africa Police Investigate intimacy Link To Terreblanche Killing by MyJoe: 7:41pm On Apr 13, 2010 |
RSA:Serious. |
| Foreign Affairs › Re: Julius Malema Called A Bbc Reporter A "Bastar..." by MyJoe: 7:36pm On Apr 13, 2010 |
Sagamite:The guy is just WOW. Certainly the best I ever came across. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Online Vitual Ifa Divination Website. Need Content Providers. by MyJoe: 1:52pm On Apr 13, 2010 |
^^^ I noticed the banter in your post. Just tried to respond in like manner and point out something before some run away with it. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Online Vitual Ifa Divination Website. Need Content Providers. by MyJoe: 1:43pm On Apr 13, 2010 |
^^^ I think it's possible to know people's bent in these forums. If someone arranged numbers like Deep Sight, for instance, it would not be noetic16. There are no examples of PastorAIO doing numbers. He appears to be well grounded in history and the liberal arts. But then, you may know something I don't. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Online Vitual Ifa Divination Website. Need Content Providers. by MyJoe: 1:37pm On Apr 13, 2010 |
KunleOshob:You spoke my mind. Deep Sight or viaro will smack their lips at the sight of these numbers.  This Ifa must be for maths geniuses.noetic16:No way! PastorAIO doesn't do numbers. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: the only true religion? by MyJoe: 1:33pm On Apr 13, 2010 |
Googler:^^^ Shut up. I wasn’t reporting about myself when I talked of the seed yam business.The Jehovists sure do Bible. But that, on its own, does not tell us anything, except that there is good practice. The Bible can be used to support almost anything. There is a guy around here called Joagbaje who backs up anything he says with copious amounts of scripture text, yet most of the Christians here don’t share his views. And when they quote scriptures which counter his ideologies he promptly dismisses the verse and its author. Don’t think I am anti-JW. I am not. There are some things to like about them. The way church services are conducted by black people, for instance, the only churches where one I can feel a measure of comfort around here are Catholic and JW services. If I am unfortunate enough to be at a Pentecostal or Anglican service, the emphasis on high decibel, to say nothing of the countless kneeling downs and standing ups, which rule there, always leave me gasping and praying God for the thing to end so I can make good my escape. But there are other issues. The issues with the JW are so far reaching, and the history and theology reek of such deceit, that I think it would be fair if people knew before they join. But what you find is that the history of the organization is hidden from you and you are told that anyone who opposes you do so in fulfillment of Jesus’ prophesy. My JW former roommate once told me what really convinced him it is the truth is because they are often spoken against! Now, that is classic – “I suffered for it, so it must be right”. It is a bait that once you bite, stops oxygen from flowing to that part of your brain that “puts two and two together”. I have challenged anyone here show a single prediction the JW made that came to pass, and to answer the other assertions I made above. But you can be sure no one will respond – the Witnesses can’t handle this sort of conversation because (1) It can create such a cognitive dissonance on long-held beliefs, beliefs equated with God himself, something a JW cannot contemplate due to the effective psychological methods used in impregnating him with the idea that the Organisation has already been chosen by God (2) Unlike the Trinity or Christmas, these issues have not been subjected to constant practice and rehearsals at the meetings. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: The Trinity Doctrine Revisited: Is Jesus=God=Holyspirit? by MyJoe: 7:34pm On Apr 09, 2010 |
JeSoul on the Doctrine of God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. Just seen this. Hope to read thread and, hopefully, contribute. I see Deep Sight is back and already giving it some fizgigs. Do have a great weekend, a all. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: the only true religion? by MyJoe: 6:59pm On Apr 09, 2010 |
rabzy:You are plain wrong. Well, maybe not. Jehovah’s Witnesses have claimed to be prophets. Well… sometimes not. Watchtower has a problem with consistency. Let me quote directly from what your publications have said on this matter and leave you make any sense out of it. Are Jehovah’s Witnesses Prophets? [b]Yes: "Jehovah God has made known to his anointed ones in advance what these scriptures mean." (WT 31 6/1 p 160) No: "Jehovah’s people confess no powers of inspiration today" (WT 52 4/15 p253) Yes: "Through this agency he is having carried out prophesying on an unprecedented and unparalled scale." (WT 64 6/15) No: "No, the ‘Watchtower’ is no inspired prophet, but it follows and explains a book of prophecy the predictions in which have proved to be unerring and unfailing until now." (WT 69 1/1 p2) Yes: "Jehovah has raised up a genuine prophet in our generation. Regardless of how Christendom views or regards this group of anointed witnesses of Jehovah, the time must come, and that shortly, when those making up Christendom, will know that really a ‘prophet’ of Jehovah was among them. (The Nations Shall Know, 1971). No: "They do not claim infalibility or perfection. Neither are they inspired prophets." (WT 5/15/76 p297) Yes: "The facts substantiate that the remnant of Christ’s anointed disciples have been doing that prophesying to all the nations for a witness in favor of God’s kingdom." (Holy Spirit - The Force Behind the Coming New Order, 1976, p 148) No: "In this regard, however, it must be observed, that the ‘faithful and discrete slave’ was never inspired, never perfect." (WT 3/1/79 p23-4) Yes: "In behalf of such individuals who at heart seek God’s rule instead of man’s rule, the ‘prophet’ whom Jehovah has raised up has been, not an individual man as in the case of Jeremiah, but a class. The members of this class are, like the prophet-priest Jeremiah, wholly dedicated to Jehovah God through Christ, and by the begettal of Jehovah’s holy spirit they have been made part of a ‘chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for special possession'." (WT 10/1/82 p27) No: "Jehovah’s Witnesses do not claim to be inspired prophets." (Reasoning, 1985, p136) Yes: "God has a people on earth, all of whom are prophets, or witnesses for God, Jehovah’s Witnesses." (AW 6/8/86 p9) No: "Never in these instances, however, did they presume or originate predictions ‘in the name of Jehovah’. Never did they say ‘These are the words of Jehovah’." (AW 3/22/93)[/b] rabzy: but they have tried to find the timing of some inspired prophesies, on some instances, they have been wrong,I think they have been wrong ALL the time. Prove me wrong. I would say that if the JWs have any truth, it is a transient brand of truth. rabzy: and there was never a denial,This is not true. On the contrary, the Watchtower Society has never expressly admitted any of its countless errors. What it does is talk about a few harmless matters – like stating in your Proclaimers’ book (much of which I have read) that in the old days elders used to be elected and Christmas used to be celebrated at Bethel. Now, does this sound like an admission of error, or even the possibility of it, to you? W84 2/1 p. 29: “Meditation can help you through tests of your faith. For example, occasionally there are changes in our understanding of certain Bible passages or prophecies. ‘The path of the righteous ones is like the bright light that is getting lighter and lighter until the day is firmly established,’ says the Bible at Proverbs 4:18. Some, however, are disturbed by these refinements. But the ‘righteous ones’ take the time to meditate and absorb these new Biblical truths, instead of hastily concluding that the `faithful slave' has erred.” So, my friend, the “faithful slave”, officially, does not err! Let us look at just one example: the Watchtower Movement’s prediction that the world would end in 1975… In the sixties, the JW came out with publications pointing to 1975 as the likely end of the world. There is a copious amount of text affirming this. But let me cite this one which appears in w68 8/15, in which a group of men calling themselves “the faithful slave” actually cautioned those who would give more importance to Jesus’ words than their own! Read this: “This is, therefore, no time to be indifferent and complacent. This is not the time to be toying with the words of Jesus that ‘concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heaven nor the Son, but only the Father.’ (Matt 24:36) To the contrary, it is a time when one should be keenly aware that the end of this system of things is rapidly coming to its violent end. Make no mistake, it is sufficient that the Father himself knows both the ‘day and hour’!” Following this series of publications pointing to 1975 as the likely end of the world, a lot of JWs started selling their properties and dumping their secular vocations to take up full time preaching. In a faming community I once lived there were folk who ate their seed yams, there being no need to plant a farm. More tragically elsewhere, there were Witnesses who put off surgeries! When reports of these madness reached the JW leadership did they step in to stop them? You bet not! Instead, it wrote this in the May 1974 Kingdom Ministry: “Reports are heard of brothers selling their homes and property and planning to finish out the rest of their days in this old system in the pioneer service. Certainly this is a fine way to spend the short time remaining before the wicked world's end.” Today, does the leadership admit it was to blame for any for this? No. It blames the rank and file for being overzealous in interpreting its text. As far as it is concerned, it made no error, the rank and file did. rabzy: there are several of their publications dating back decades which have mentioned such things.What the publications always do is whitewash the facts. Blame it on the recruits instead of on the leadership. rabzy: Even in the Bible some things were not fully understood by the prophets or the apostles until much later, Daniel wrote prophesies which he did not understand but the Angel told him he should still write, that later it would be understood by others at God's right time, the apostles did not understand what Jesus meant when he said, John would not die until the return of the son of man.I wish the Watchtower Society, which calls itself “the faithful slave” would adopt the attitude of Daniel and the apostles, instead of ridiculing themselves and insulting everyone’s intelligence with its curious and endless theories and speculations, along with calculations, chronologies and predictions. rabzy: If you are talking about revised doctrines, when you are studying anything, you don't come to a full grasp of your study all at a time, things become clearer and clearer, as you know and learn more. That was the case in ancient Israel, God once allowed the Israelites to divorce their wives on almost any ground, but Jesus came and put a stop to that, and said it is adultery if you divorce on anything other than infidelity. Also among the early Christians, Many issues causing dissensions among the early christians were referred to the older men in Jerusalem, who shed more lights on matters and sent letters to the congregations and these become part of the Christian doctrine we know today.Yes. But God never deceived the prophets in the Bible in this manner. This is what Proverbs 4:18, NWT says: ‘The path of the righteous ones is like the bright light that is getting lighter and lighter until the day is firmly established.” Without any ambiguity, this scripture implies an incremental revelation of light, a progression, a path that increases in clarity. It does not talk of a light that brightens, then dims, then again brightens, and then again dims. Here are samples of what we get with the Watchtower Society: Are blood fractions allowed? • No – AW56 09/08 p20 • Yes – w58 09/15 p575 • No – w61 09/15 p557 • Yes – w61 11/01 p670 • No – w63 02/15 p123-4 • Yes – AW65 08/22 p18 Proverbs 4:8 tells people to expect knowledge and understanding of scripture that keep expanding, not understanding that swings back and forth like a pendulum, from “old light” to “new light” back to “old light”. There are no biblical examples of God confusing people in this manner. Noah, Abraham, Moses and the others all seemed to understand Him. For all their human mistakes, according to the Bible, they relayed God’s word correctly. Does God change his mind? Is he a God of disorder or of peace? Who is responsible for those who die as a result of Watchtower’s changing policies? I am thinking of the time your Society used to ban vaccines and organ transplants, presenting these as the latest light from God through His “faithful slave”? When the Bible is not explicit on something, is it humility or presumptuousness for a dozen or so men in Brooklyn, NY, who have told themselves that they are God's sole channel, to issue their personal interpretations regarding matters that run from petty little details to predictions to matters of life and death? rabzy: There is no religious organization, ancient or recent, who had all its tenets and beliefs, fixed and unchanged from inception.Yes. The Catholic Church admits its errors (well, I am still waiting for Pope Ratzinger to admit his personal failings and resign) and has issued apologies from time to time. The leadership of the JW is too arrogant to do this. RWilliams:You are clearly interpreting a scripture wrongly here. In fact, I am not sure where you got your interpretation from since the leadership of your religion has stopped putting it like this after doing so for over 70 years. Here is Matthew 13:24-31, NLT: 24 Here is another story Jesus told: “The Kingdom of Heaven is like a farmer who planted good seed in his field. 25 But that night as everyone slept, his enemy came and planted weeds among the wheat. 26 When the crop began to grow and produce grain, the weeds also grew. 27 The farmer’s servants came and told him, ‘Sir, the field where you planted that good seed is full of weeds!’ 28 “ ‘An enemy has done it!’ the farmer exclaimed. “ ‘Shall we pull out the weeds?’ they asked. 29 “He replied, ‘No, you’ll hurt the wheat if you do. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest. Then I will tell the harvesters to sort out the weeds and burn them and to put the wheat in the barn.’ ” The Master would not allow his servants to collect the weeds, because "while collecting the weeds, you uproot the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest." (Verses 29, 30, NWT) When is the separation done? Let’s read verses 37-43, NLT: 37 “All right,” he said. “I, the Son of Man, am the farmer who plants the good seed. 38 The field is the world, and the good seed represents the people of the Kingdom. The weeds are the people who belong to the evil one. 39 The enemy who planted the weeds among the wheat is the Devil. The harvest is the end of the world, and the harvesters are the angels. 40 “Just as the weeds are separated out and burned, so it will be at the end of the world. 41 I, the Son of Man, will send my angels, and they will remove from my Kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil, 42 and they will throw them into the furnace and burn them. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the godly will shine like the sun in their Father’s Kingdom. Anyone who is willing to hear should listen and understand! [b]Clearly, it was at the "harvest" (= at the "end of the world", verse 39) that the angels--not Christ's servants or followers--would remove the "weeds" from "the kingdom" (= the world) and gather "the wheat" into Christ's "barn." (Verses 40-43, 30) [/b]This clearly shows that the good and bad people are together – in all worldviews. God, not any self-proclaimed “true religion”, would do the separation, Himself. RWilliams: This group would clean themselves of all pagan originating doctrines, traditions and practices thus getting out of Babylon the great (Read Revelation Ch 17,18) and the truth would get brighter all the way until the final day.Yeah. This is the problem. “Come out and be separate.” “People talk bad of us because we are the true followers of Jesus”. So on and so forth. These are the irresistible staples new recruits are fed. It is all based on a misconception, of course. The JW publications never carry stories of people of other religions who face persecution. But it is a highly effective method, as it creates in the individual that feel good thing about knowing you have something others richer and more famous than you don't. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Jehovah's Witnesses: the only true religion? by MyJoe: 6:32pm On Apr 09, 2010 |
RWilliams:I, on my part, will not be surprised if you don’t reply me, since JWs tend to wax eloquent when demolishing stuff like Trinity (which is not rooted in the Bible) but when some unrehearsed real issues are raised, they cop out, labelling the other person as an “opposer” cast in the mould of the Pharisees. Anyway, if you want PROOF of anything I say here, just ask and I will supply them in lorry loads. Some will say the JWs are the ones always peddling “long laborious doctrinal disagreements”. How, for instance, do you explain someone insisting Jesus was killed on a tree rather than a cross? Such a minor thing! RWilliams: Funny, Jesus never said much at all about doctrines, from what I have read in the bible, be it hell fire, trinity, immortality, bla bla bla, and he never said that the truth was to be discerned by having the absolute knowledge of all things.Coming from a JW… RWilliams: Jesus said that you would know his true followers by the love they have amongst themselves, Jehovah’s Witnesses strive to show this both individually and as an organisation, facing death rather than betraying their brothers to political factions or going to war.It is true Witnesses refuse to kill their neighbours in war, which is commendable. Many of them have also refused to betray their brothers. But, you see, it doesn’t end there. For one thing, fighting in war is not always a bad thing. In fact, it is sometimes the right thing to do. I, for instance, am totally against violence. But I do recognise, like the non-violent George Orwell also did, that the reason I sleep peacefully on my bed at night is because someone stands outside ready to do violence on my behalf. Do you know what would have happened if brave men and women had not offered up their lives to stop the Third Reich? Hitler would have taken over the world (God forbid!) and (1) all the Jews and Slavs in the world would have been exterminated (2) All the blacks in the world would have been sent to labour camps (3) All homosexuals, the mentally ill and other “impurities” would have been exterminated (4) All the JWs in the world would have been sent to labour camps. But the above would mean nothing to you. You believe it was Jehovah who stopped the Third Reich so your preaching work can continue, not the people of the world led by the UK, the US and Russia. It appears you Witnesses live in a world of your own, following your perverse interpretation of “you are no part of the world.” Which is why a Witness almost invariably manifests a childlike refusal to deal appropriately with the complexities of the world around him. Pain, disease and misgovernance are of Satan’s world – no need to do anything since Armageddon, which is around the corner, will end it all. So everybody, forward march to Armageddon! A Witness will never speak out against injustice except when it is directly targeted at his preaching work. But you know the result of this, friend? Injustice within your Organisation is also not dealt with! On the matter of love, it is not only Witnesses that show love. In fact, they are behind some religious groups I know in the matter of love. I will not go into details about that but if you want to explore that subject further, let me know. RWilliams: Jesus asked us to “Make Disciples” To Go (doing word!) and make disciples, I think they get a tick for this one.This is another blunder you Witnesses make. Your assumption is based primarily on your door-to-door activity. Think: does the use of this specific preaching method prove that this is the only true Christian organization, while other groups who use other methods to reach people with their message are not Christians? Are they less effective than the Witnesses? And do you know there is no evidence that the first century Christians used this preaching method? The hard facts available (ask me, and I will supply them) is that quite a number of Christian groups are growing in number, many of them even much faster than Jehovah's Witnesses. It is your Watchtower publications that are giving you the FALSE impression that other Christian denominations and sects are declining in numbers, that the "waters" of "Babylon the Great" is "drying up." (Rev. 16:12 and 17:15) Nothing could be falser. It is true that the majority of the Christian denominations have been declining in the Western countries, but this also holds true in the case of Jehovah's Witnesses in that part of the world. However, due to developments in certain parts of the world, there has been a tremendous increase of Christians in the world as a whole since the century that ended a decade ago. Again, this applies to the JW as well. RWilliams: The bible shows that Fornicators, Homosexuals, Liars, drunkards, and so on will not inherit gods kingdom, if they do not change their ways once they learn what god requires, many religions these days are very permissive of these things, whereas JW’s obey the bible requirement to “Quit mixing with such ones” if they do not repent of their wrong course. People look at it as a bad point because they “Shun People”. By doing this they are actually obeying God’s word, hating what is bad and not being a friend of the world, which is enmity with god. If someone realises there wrong course, they are more than welcome, or welcome back if they have gone for a walk down the broad and spacious road leading to destruction.Having devoted a good deal of my time to studying the religions, I am aware of several churches that sanction erring members. Some methods are bizarre, others are humane and reflect the kind of love Christ taught. Shunning, the method used by the Witnesses is the harshest I have come across. It lacks human face and it saddens me that human beings who claim to represent God conceived it. (I took some time to study the life and times of the particular WT President who invented it and wasn’t surprised at all.) And I will not let you put a gloss on it here, so I will attempt to present it the way it really works. For I heard of a man who committed suicide after he was disfellowshipped and made to face shunning for smoking. And many have spoken of being denied love by family members. Meanwhile, these policies are not applied consistently, but that is a different matter. I will have your readers know that it is not only those who involve themselves in fornication and co that face this treatment, as you will have them believe here. Questioning the teachings of the Watchtower Society, for instance, is a no-no that will see you being accused of apostatising and lead to shunning. Please permit me to ask you a question: when you go preaching from house to house, do you tell potential recruits, and newer ones in your midst, that once recruited they can’t leave the Organisation? Ok, let me modify that – actually they can leave. But do you tell them that that means that if their kids are Witnesses they will be shunned by such kids and denied their natural right to filial love? Do new recruits know that anyone who leaves the Organisation will be seen by Witnesses, including his former friends, as worse than the most despicable dog? RWilliams: One thing that many JW bosoms harp on is that they have made a few errors in dates they thought certain things were supposed to happen. It is true. But this does not mean they are false prophets.I think it does mean that they are false prophets. RWilliams: A false prophet is someone who deliberately tells lies about the future.Add And someone who says what God did not send him to say in the name of God. Jer 23:21 says: “I did not send the prophets, yet they themselves ran. I did not speak to them, yet they themselves prophesied. This is the old masthead of Awake!: "Most important, this magazine builds confidence in the Creator's promise of a peaceful and secure new world before the generation that saw the events of 1914 passes away." The Awake! masthead now reads: "Most important, this magazine builds confidence in the Creator's promise of a peaceful and secure new world that is about to replace the present wicked, lawless system of things." Creator’s promise? 1914? Now, honestly, do you still think you are not false prophets? RWilliams: Being imperfect human beings, at times some of the founders of the religion took the command to “be on the watch therefore” a little too zealously, but at least they are on the watch, instead of asleep! I wonder if the Virgins in Jesus parable who kept their lamps burning and brought more oil than they thought they would need, heard footsteps a few times that were not there!With respect, sir, the above is scurrilous nonsense! None of the virgins stood up and declared that the Master had come as your Organisation has done since it was founded. In fact, your Organisation was founded because the world was to end in 1914. Most of you don’t even know this. I borrowed your WT Library from a friend and installed it on my PC. I note that publications before 1950 are not there, so most of you are blissfully ignorant of a lot of things concerning Watchtower Jehovism. Even offensive articles after 1950 are removed from this “comprehensive” Library. If Watchtower were a state, it would be twice as closed as North Korea and ten times as secretive. RWilliams: Jehovah’s Witnesses used to smoke, celebrate Xmass, worship the cross, and many other things that they have “washed their robes white from” as they strive to learn more and refine their worship to align it with the truth form god’s word, and truly seem to be the ones talked about in the book of Matthew Chapter 24 that were the faithful slave, doing their best to do what is right despite the absence of their master, and now he has returned as prophesied in 1914, when the first sign Jesus gave of his presence (Nation will rise against nation and Kingdom against kingdom) was lit up by the outbreak of the first world war, he has appointed that organisation over “all his belongings”Are you seriously saying that nations did not rise against nations until 1914? I don’t think even you will dare say that. Is there a biblical basis for associating anything with this date, then, or do you just believe it because someone told you it is so? RWilliams: The bible in the book of Revelation urges Christians to get away from false religion. This is why JW’s reject and do not observe any observances or celebrations (Christmas, Easter, Halloween etc) that have many practices and/or dates in common with pagan festivals of times past. Failing to do this, like most of Christianity today, means you become part of false religion, and will “share in her plagues” (Rev Ch 17)Are you really separate from what you call “false religion”? Are you aware of your Organisation’s alliance with a prominent church ministry a few years ago? Do also know your Organisations’ alliance with political powers? Perhaps it is okay by you for the leadership of your religion to preach water and drink wine? (I am deliberately being vague because I doubt you are able to handle these matters. I know that for someone who is smart, hints are all required. On the other hand, if someone is not smart, anything you tell them, plain or vague, is useless. Whatever you choose to believe in is your business, but seeing your eloquence and how it might inveigle meek children of God who may have been misguided into believing that the truth about God is found in one single place and are honestly searching for it on this forum, I am typing to present some of the facts as they are. You are welcome to counter them. The Witnesses are good, very good. Which is not surprising considering all those practice and rehearsals at your meetings, where presentation, dialogue, logic, and refutation are drilled into the preacher (called "publisher"  for use in the field. Put a trained anybody against a novice in any field, and the result of foreknown. That, and not any “truth”, is why your field workers often seem able to demolish any arguments put forth by people of other Christian denominations. I would hope you drop your JW goggles while reading what I am writing, but of course, that is too much to hope for whenever one is dealing with anyone high on the narcotic called religion.)RWilliams: God says that in the time of the end he will bring out of all nations of the earth a “people for his name”, a name that the other religions of this world are striving to hide away, why you won’t even find it in most bibles these days, even where it does not make sense not to be there, and interesting, the pope gave a directive recently to his bishops not to use any form of the original name of god in worship!Can't say much on this now, except that being the best organised religious group on earth (which you are) does not remotely mean being the uniquely "true religion". Your "unity" comes at a great prize - if I lay them bare here, I am sure most reasonable people would want nothing to do with your kind of "unity" which is really uniformity. There is evidence that the chaos you see in Christendom today was there in the first century. Bickering is normal among humans. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Is God's Wrath Manifested By Eternal Fire At Variance With God's Love? by MyJoe: 7:01pm On Apr 03, 2010 |
There are many strange religious beliefs and doctrines in the world - from men reincarnating as rats to wine turning into blood. But one must say that the Hellfire teaching, the idea that God has made a fire to burn people for eternity takes the cup. That a man who lived a life of "sin" for, say, 80 years can be sentenced to an eternity in a hot house is just. . . |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Saudi To Behead Lebanese Convicted Of Witchcraft by MyJoe: 6:58pm On Apr 03, 2010 |
jagunlabi:The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia is not a theocracy but a monarchy. Although it is an Islamic state like Pakistan, Iran and some other countries around there, it is not a theocracy like Iran. While Iran is ruled by clerics, KSA is ruled by the House of Saud, that is, the sons and grandsons of the first king, Abd Al Aziz Al Saud, who are not necessarily mullahs or imams. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Does Anybody Believe That Human Corpse Can Turn To Money? by MyJoe(op): 6:41pm On Apr 03, 2010 |
tpiah:The cadavar vomited cowries. joe4christ:That is what we are doing here: "more research". Please tell us what you know. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Religious Section Posters J A M B Questions (Comical) by MyJoe(op): 6:33pm On Apr 03, 2010 |
nuclearboy: |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Does Anybody Believe That Human Corpse Can Turn To Money? by MyJoe(op): 12:24pm On Apr 02, 2010 |
^^^ I would give an arm to have a firsthand experience like this! The other day while we were watching a Nollywood movie that featured this sort of thing on AIT, I told a friend I would like to have a one-on-one chat with a cultist of this sort. He opined that nobody would tell me the truth except one who had “come out”. But the problem I find with those is you can never trust their story. Emmanuel Eni has since been denounced as a fraud. Then I read a book by one Iyke Nathan Uzoma, but the book's authenticity was heavily tainted by its unbriddled promotion of Benson Idahosa and some other "men of God". And the other day in Uganda someone told a British reporter that as a witch doctor he had personally sacrificed 70 people in rituals. Police investigations revealed he made it all up to gain some attention! I guess some people’s lives are too humdrum. So seeing it personally as you did above would be wonderful! Note that the flesh to cash conversion theory is not mutually exclusive of the above or any other form of ritual. The way these stories have been peddled since forever, there are different kinds of rituals and many have been portrayed in Nollywood movies. The corpse to cash is just one of them. That is, the "big man" is said to have a secret chamber where no one else is allowed to enter. Whenever he needs cash he goes in there and calls the victim's name or chants some incantation and crisp notes start popping out. One movie I saw this, over 10 years ago, I think, is Blood Money. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Religious Section Posters J A M B Questions (Comical) by MyJoe(op): 12:14pm On Apr 02, 2010 |
JeSoul:Of the ones you attempted, you missed two, but viaro may have helped you with one in the spirit of "phone a friend". That may leave one! @nuclearboy That was a good observation about Abuzola! I just tried to ensure every name got represented in options, as trying to give a question to all the wonderful/interesting characters here would have given us too many questions. I am aware even the options could not take all the name. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Religious Section Posters J A M B Questions (Comical) by MyJoe(op): 11:50am On Apr 02, 2010*. Modified: 6:38pm On Jun 26, 2012 |
By the way, I have heard credible rumours Olabowale has been sighted around - either reincarnated or he sent his son. I hope Kunle will investigate and inform us. |
| Christianity Etc › Religious Section Posters J A M B Questions (Comical) by MyJoe(op): 6:15pm On Mar 31, 2010 |
It appears this section has lost some high quality posters of late. While I do not think much of Abuzola, I am sure some will miss Olabowale’s convoluted arguments, although I am not one of them. Those I am sure most will miss, though, are Deep Sight and Joagbaje. Deep Sight for his energy and unassailable logic. There is already a thread asking after his whereabouts. Joagbaje is the Christian poster whom KunleOsob, our self-appointed exposer-in-chief, has informed us is a Christ Embassy pastor. It is a few days since he showed up but I miss his brutal frankness already. In a way he reminds me of m_nwakwo and chukudi44, who tell you straight what they believe it to be and then leave you to make what you like of it. But Joagbaje is in a league of his own. He backs up whatever he says with scripture citations, even if you disagree with his application of those scriptures. And KunleOshob, viaro and InesQor often do. You show him a statement from the Book of Isaiah countering his WOF ideology and he waves that one aside with his left hand, telling you, in case you did not know, that he has more light than the prophet Isaiah. I saw a post where KunleOshob alleges that the man says James (Jesus’ brother) is a “baby Christian”! I hope Joagbaje comes back soon. But there are other interesting people in this section. I trust you will enjoy the “Jamb Questions” below which I thought I might put together before time out. (If you are not Nigerian, “Jamb” is a colloquial way of referring to Nigeria’s matriculation exams.) Sounds bites and the names of section posters, in one place. Enjoy! *** 22 J A M B Questions on the Religion Section Posters Instructions: If you are an old user, you know all the answers. If not, you have “ask the audience” and “phone a friend”. *** 1. Who is the perfect gentleman in whom there is no sliver of vulgarity, respected across the board for his brilliance, sound judgment and deep convictions? (a) m_nwankwo (b) noetic16 (c) sinequanon 2. Which pantheist-panentheist has little taste for monotheist-henotheists? (a) Jagunlabi (b) Jaguda (c) alatheia 3. Which deep sighted man has a deeply rooted passion for taking Deep Sight to the deeps, possesses high intelligence with vast knowledge that cuts across various fields of learning, has a reputation for “moving things”, and sometimes goes round without motion in circular movements that can stagnate, rather than advance, debates, making him come across dangerously like pilgrim_1? (a) viaro (b) k17 (c) wirinet 4. Who is the Field Marshall who will refuse to get into a scuffle where lesser folks would pull out a gun, reply a rude post with a logical one, has more energy for debating than Peter has for boxing, and is particularly noted for his high intelligence, stubbornness and reliance on sound logical reasoning over anything else? (a) Deep Sight (b) Deep Soul (c) banom 5. Who opened the most unnecessary thread, one that ought to be mass-produced and sent to the humanities faculties of universities as the perfect specimen of “Indefatigability and Obscurantism in Critical Internet Interlocution”, a thread meant to “explain” a rather simple matter (the Oneness of Infinity) but ended up obfuscating it beyond imagination? (a) Deep Sight (b) Googler (c) toneyb 6. Which highly intelligent girl, who denounced herself as a boy, has a tendency to make interminably long posts which sometimes teach you something, sometimes are replete with wild analogies you have a hard time reconciling, and sometimes communicate nothing at all? (b) mavenb0x (b) mavenbox (c) Maven 7. In whose humble opinion (IMHO) can it be argued that cows have done more for humanity than the likes of Jesus and Mohammed? (a) Krayola (b) mama-gee (c) toba (He said it within a context, please) 8. Who has “more light than [the prophet] Isaiah”, and is pastor to His Excellency, Dr Goodluck Ebele Jonathan, Acting President and Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces of the Federal Republic of Nigeria, whom we are lucky to have among us? (a)Joagbaje (b) No2Atheism (c) Ilosiwaju 9. Which “live and let live” atheist became fundamentalist (on NL) after religious folk called him a fool (off NL) for saying there is no God? (a) g1 (b) ancel (c) mabell 10. Who never knew there are riff-raffs who are atheists (a) Aloy-Emeka (b) Mba_Emeka (c) ogaga4luv 11. Which newbie invented the memorable phrase “logic of contamination”? (a) Iyineda (b) InesQor (c) chukwudi44 12. Who is one of the “few good Christians” not failing “to speak out”, a radical restorationist cast in the mould of Martin Luther, John Calvin, Charles Taze Russell and Joseph Smith, is on a crusade to rid Christendom of such “scams” as tithing and first fruit offerings, and fights running battles with members of “CEC Plc” on the floor? (a) KunleOshob (b) tonye-t (c) manmustwac 13. Which of the following is not a bona fide member of MOGANALA? (a) seeklove (b) toneyb (c) k17 14. Which Christian is noted for his high intelligence, sharp wit and refutation skills, adherence to Ojuelegba Motor Park Script of Dialogue, lack of time for the sentiments expressed in the Sermon on the Mount, is in love with the OT God and would sooner see Him back, would have relished the honour of being a subaltern to the crusader Richard the Lion-Hearted had he been alive in the 1100s, and would equally have chaired the Supreme Council of the Spanish Inquisition had he lived anytime between the 1400s and early 1800s? (a) Davidylan (b) Nezan (c) Seun 15. Which pastor is famous for his high intelligence, eclectic scholarship, sense of humour, and is thought by many to have a predilection for abstruseness, even obfuscation? (a) PastorAIO (b) PastorAde (c) OLAADEGU 16. Who denounced Yoruba Muslims for cowardice when it comes to taking up the sword (or the bomb) to fight the Jihad, rues the fact that Allah made her female which precludes her from Jihading, and has been described as “Abuzola in training”? (a) uplawal (b) mukina2 (c) jarus 17. Which pugnacious defender of (1) the Yoruba race (2) the Christianity project, do you need to avoid clashing with unless you have your “yabbing” cap on? (a) tpia (b) saharachic (c) 49cents 18. Who is a refreshingly moderate Moslem, also remarkable for his brilliance and clarity of thought? (a) muhsin (b) Abuzola (c) Abuz©la 19. Which liberalist, pacifist, secular, materialist thinker has a reputation for one-liners? (a) bawomolo (b) nuclearboy (c) ogajim 20. Which young man, who is currently female, took the search for God to God’s acre (spent a night in a graveyard to determine the existence of the non-material), is a rabid defender of atheism, has a longstanding bete noir in the likes of David Oyedepo, and is noted for posts that combine brilliance, wit and gruffness? (a) Tudor (b) beneli (c) easylogic Theory: Electronic calculators allowed 21. JeSoul averages nearly a dozen marriage offers per day and is seriously considering a handful of them. Since she is a Bible-chewing, spirit-filled Born Again Christian girl, one who radiates “love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control” (Gal 5:22, NLT), prove that she is not in line to be Nigeria’s first polyandrist. 22. Everybody has transited, the Land of Naira having been hit by a 9.9 earthquake. MyJoe, JeSoul, m_nwankwo, muhsin, Googler, PastorAIO and Davidylan are already in heaven, where they are being hosted by Angel Michael, chilling and having the time of their lives. All are happy except JeSoul and Davidylan. JeSoul is on her knees praying that what the rumour mill has been churning out concerning Deep Sight is not true. Davidylan is frantically tapping away at his mobile phone, his brow furrowed in a deep frown. Viaro is listed to be there, but Angels Gabriel and Uriel can’t stop arguing about him – Gabriel saying he is the same person known as pilgrim_1 who is listed for purgatory along with all the other NL folks, Uriel saying they were two different persons. Deep Sight is listed to be in paradise and can’t wait to get there, but the MOGANALA, led by their chairperson, michelin89, secretary-general, mazaje, and strategist, Krayola (Deep Sight is taken aback to see him here), are refusing to concede defeat, holding him hostage at the gates of Hell on the accusation that he did not do enough at the Land of Naira to persuade them as to the existence of the Oneness of Infinity. Angel Raphael, a keen follower of Deep Sight’s labours at the Land, ignores Davidylan’s sms telling him to let DS stew in Hell and decides it is all wrong and goes to help. He yanks Deep Sight free from the grasp of michelin89’s black, stumpy fingers and asks him to run. Mich promptly dispatches bawomolo, MOGANALA’s Olympic marathoner, who, on a rainless day like this, averages the same speed as Deep Sight, that is 2 light years per hour. If Raphael has empowered DS to run at twice the speed, by how much distance does he out-run bawomolo in four days? |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Your Favourite Bible Verse by MyJoe: 10:27am On Mar 31, 2010 |
John 1:47 (KJV) 47Jesus saw Nathanael coming to him, and saith of him, Behold an Israelite indeed, in whom is no guile! Have always wondered what kind of man Nathanael must've been. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Show Me The Autheticity Of Your Bible by MyJoe: 10:14am On Mar 31, 2010 |
davidylan:David's Epiphany |
| Christianity Etc › Re: The Ethics Of Doing Vs. Allowing Sin / Harm; Murder As A Special Case. by MyJoe: 5:30pm On Mar 30, 2010 |
InesQor:The way tpia and JeSoul put it one would think the above is such an egregious poser and the thread similar to the “useless” ones that litter this section. These are serious questions and there is no yes or no answer to them. I think there are principally two motivations behind charitable giving – self interest and altruism. The rich realise they are not safe with too many hungry people around, so they give in enlightened self interest. While others give because they are moved by their hearts. But is it right to give to the less fortunate, seeing as this can promote indolence? There are a lot of ethical issues involved here. Someone the other day told how he was accosted by a healthy-looking beggar man who “narrated” to him that his wife had died two weeks before, leaving him “alone to care for two children”. When you give to a beggar, you may actually be encouraging something bad, begging. If you don’t give, there is a chance you are denying help to someone who is genuinely in need. So having a sweeping philosophy would clearly not help in this matter. Some thinkers have tried to come up with guidelines. In Marxist ideology, “private charity” is frowned upon. In fact, it is forbidden. As the thinking here goes, there ought not to be rich people, and therefore no despondent people. The state collects “from each one according to their ability and gives to each according to his needs”. This may be all well and good where there is a Communist state, but what happens where there is not? In Crime and Punishment, a novel by Fyodor Dostoevsky (classified, along with his other works and those of others like Leo Tolstoy, as “The Great Russian Novels” of the 19th Century) set in Tsarist Russia in the years preceding the Bolshevik Revolution, we see a man who holds to this ideology. He holds to it the way people do to their religions views and actively preaches it. But on an occasion he finds himself endorsing an act of private charity, as he was moved by compassion. In the United States, it has been found that Conservatives give substantially more to charitable causes than Liberals. This is understandable since Conservatives are all for private charity. The other day I heard someone, a American Conservative, going on and on about how Americans are generous and did far more charity that Europeans. What he obviously ignored, or forgot, was that the Europeans pay far higher taxes than the Americans, which means far better welfare systems. The amount of venom with which the American Conservatives have greeted the recent changes in their country’s health policies to offer insurance coverage to 32 million of their fellow countrymen and the dubious methods they have adopted to push their views, for example, just take your breath away. Liberals, on the other hand, campaign for “redistribution of wealth”. They support higher taxes to fund social programmes. They are less keen on “private charities” that effect no radical changes. But we still have to deal with the issue of non-giving on the part of these Liberals. Given the situation that the government is still scaled back the world is still largely winner takes all, is it tenable to maintain the position that campaigning for government action is enough to replace personal or private giving or shouldn’t everyone emulate the Conservatives in this regard? Is charity good, since it can encourage laziness? Which is better between public charity and private charity? These are questions I cannot answer. What I do know is that one of the reasons you have so much despondency and crime in Nigeria is that there isn’t much public or private charity. There is no effective taxation system and the rich don’t give to charity. They keep all they earn. The closest they come to giving is giving to a political party in order to get government contracts. They will also make donations at the book launch of one of their kinds, in order to keep the wheel of political and business Influence oiled. A couple of years ago, I wrote the will for a prominent businessman in the SW. What struck me most was the fact that from the beginning it was this building goes to my wife, that bank account goes to my son, the shares in that company goes to my daughter in Atlanta, and on and on like that. The much that went to non-family was the little sums he gave to (1) his home church parish (2) the one he attends in Lagos. But I think they are paying for it, as the children they tuck away in the “safety” of America and Europe are attacked on their way from the airports whenever they come around. I realise, though, that with the upsurge in kidnapping (it’s less risky than armed robbery) many of the ajebos are kukuma staying put over there. If charity is brought about by compassion, then all the relevant ideologies are circumscribed. On charitable giving, as well as the consequentialism and non-consequetialism issues highlighted above, I think an individual should look at things on a case by case basis in taking his decision. Which is why I agree with Krayola that the situation determines the action, even though I do not see how the example he gave would be of practical use at decision time if he is not clairvoyant. I believe that someone who is financially blessed can enjoy life to the fullest, even though children are starving in Africa. This is perfectly logical within my belief in reincarnation and Karma, where some schools teach that everyone is given the opportunity to enjoy wealth at some point of his existence. But even those who don’t share my beliefs will agree that if the homeless chap on the street were to take the rich man’s place, he would relax and enjoy it all. What would be a tragedy is if you keep all you earn to yourself. This is what I believe to be the spirit behind the Old Testament principle of tithing, which unfortunately some selfish religious leaders have corrupted for impure motives. It would be morally wrong, too, if you waste. Once the American billionaire Donald Trump was asked why he was so particular about the exact cost of bulbs being installed in a house he was building. He explained that if he prevented money being wasted in the process of procuring each bulb he might save a considerable amount to give to some charity that needed the money more than he did. You cannot save the world, but you can do what you can. You see, the world is a competitive place, and there are people who simply cannot compete. It is the duty of those who are able to compete to assist them. |
| Christianity Etc › Re: Where Is Deepsight? by MyJoe: 3:22pm On Mar 30, 2010 |
JeSoul:I do not think it was anything to with "debative bullets", as he seemed to revel in that sort of thing and never showed signs of being under pressure in any debate. Both he and viaro seemed to have the ability to eat numbers for breakfast, lunch, dinner, and snacks, although their approaches to debating were very much different, particularly in the last weeks preceding his departure. He had been going on about "chasing money" for some time. When you make the number of posts Deep Sight made in a day it doubtless affects your productivity. He almost certainly left to have more time for his secular pursuits. |
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